Luke Shaw | Deal done! Almost...

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Freak said:
85k/wk for such a young player?! Good god, football has gone mad.
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I agree that 85k a week is insane for any player - but as long as he is performing the way he is, why should his age matter ?

Rooney will probably be considered one of Fergusons 5-6 best signings - it was an insane amount of money for him as well - but he was worth it. Shaw will be the same if we sign him
 
lysglimt said:
I agree that 85k a week is insane for any player - but as long as he is performing the way he is, why should his age matter ?

Rooney will probably be considered one of Fergusons 5-6 best signings - it was an insane amount of money for him as well - but he was worth it. Shaw will be the same if we sign him
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Think about it for a bit. He's an 18 year old fullback who would be on 85k/wk. 18 years old. Fullback. Not someone who's going to get you goals or win you games on his own or whom you can build your team around.

18 year old fullback. On 85k/wk. it just gets more ridiculous every time I type it.
 
Freak said:
Think about it for a bit. He's an 18 year old fullback who would be on 85k/wk. 18 years old. Fullback. Not someone who's going to get you goals or win you games on his own or whom you can build your team around.

18 year old fullback. On 85k/wk. it just gets more ridiculous every time I type it.
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While I think it's a crazy price right now given the availability of other left backs, fullbacks are an essential part of a team nowadays. If, in hindsight, he turns out to be the next Dani Alves/Phillip Lahm/Ashley Cole, 27m could prove to be a decent price.
 
When you compare talents you could argue that Januzaj has more potential and isnt he on 40k? BUT Shaw is already performing at a standard way above many others with years on his experience. I dont have a problem with the wages, what I do have a problem with is where that would leave us down the line. What happens when Chelsea come sniffing. Do we offer even more? whats the cieling with this lad?
 
Was surprised to see he hasn't scored this season. Given the amount he's allowed to get forward in that team he needs to add that to his game really. Only 1 assist too.
 
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mufcwarm92 said:
The last teenage full back to take the league by storm was Micah Richards. Hmmm.
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he was way overhyped even at that age. He had clear flaws in his game that people ignored because he was such am incredible athlete. A physical phenomenon. He is, even now, young enough to iron out those flaws but he needs games.

Luke Shaw is a much more complete footballer than Richards was and is now. Now it's always difficult to tell if an 18 year old will fulfill their potential but Shaw is as Shaw (sorry about that) as it gets.

I know this is a bit name droppy but I know people who went to school with and are friends of Shaw even now and football is his life. Obvious, I know. But all he wants to do is make it and improve. There doesn't seem to be any attitude problems with him. I mean, he is a famous, rich 18 year old, but in context he seems a decent lad. I don't know if Richards ever had attitude problems, but Shaw doesn't seem to.
 
Shaw is the real deal whoever gets him could have the best left back in the league for the next 10 years, from what i've seen this season and last he has the ability on the surface be as good as someone like Ashley Cole.
 
Lu Tze said:
While I think it's a crazy price right now given the availability of other left backs, fullbacks are an essential part of a team nowadays. If, in hindsight, he turns out to be the next Dani Alves/Phillip Lahm/Ashley Cole, 27m could prove to be a decent price.
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But im not talking about the transfer fee. We have paid far more for defenders. Im talking about the wages. No 18 year old should be paid that much, not even januzaj and he's done more for us that shaw has for Southampton.
 
Lu Tze said:
While I think it's a crazy price right now given the availability of other left backs, fullbacks are an essential part of a team nowadays. If, in hindsight, he turns out to be the next Dani Alves/Phillip Lahm/Ashley Cole, 27m could prove to be a decent price.
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I am sure someone has already mentioned it. But 85k/week for an 18 year old fb is insane. Now I don't care about how much he earns but am worried where will that leave us in terms of player negotiations when we have to renew contracts. The next time Januzaj asks for a new contract he could want more than Shaw as he is the bigger talent of the two. So we start giving into such demands for every player we have? We have already set a dangerous precedent with Rooney but he is a proven world class player. If we start doing the same for 18 year old talents, we could well be shooting ourself in the foot in the long run.
 
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I think we'll have to take any potential long-term hit if we're to get out of this mess with David Moyes in charge. Football is already daft, we're no better than anybody else so we might as well continue on with its madness. If the club is willing to pay Luke Shaw 85k per week then it can afford to do so, and given it isn't my money, that's fine by me. Consequences may come down the line later, but the consequences of not making the Champions League the season after next will be greater.
 
Freak said:
But im not talking about the transfer fee. We have paid far more for defenders. Im talking about the wages. No 18 year old should be paid that much, not even januzaj and he's done more for us that shaw has for Southampton.
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Probably what it took to outbid Chelsea.
 
Freak said:
No 18 year old should be paid that much, not even januzaj and he's done more for us that shaw has for Southampton.
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Really think so? Not sure about that one myself. Shaw has played almost all games in pl and has been very solid. Januzaj will certainly be a better player but I don't think that last sentence is true
 
Freak said:
But im not talking about the transfer fee. We have paid far more for defenders. Im talking about the wages. No 18 year old should be paid that much, not even januzaj and he's done more for us that shaw has for Southampton.
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Its not about how much you or I think an 18 year old should be paid, but more so what the market dictates. If a club like Chelsea are involved and we want him, then we have to compete in the range of weekly wages that all of his potential suitors are willing to pay.
 
Freak said:
But im not talking about the transfer fee. We have paid far more for defenders. Im talking about the wages. No 18 year old should be paid that much, not even januzaj and he's done more for us that shaw has for Southampton.
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No, he hasn't.
 
For this kind of money he'd have to be a young Cafu. I've only watched him against United and he's never stood out.
 
Raoul said:
Its not about how much you or I think an 18 year old should be paid, but more so what the market dictates. If a club like Chelsea are involved and we want him, then we have to compete in the range of weekly wages that all of his potential suitors are willing to pay.
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It sets a precedent for our future dealings with players that age both within the club and outside. How can anyone justify that sort of wages for him? We can just walk away and go for someone else with more realistic wages.
 
For argument's sake, let's say he's realistically only worth 40k per week for the next 4 years. That means we'd be paying £27m + a £9m wage premium for a fullback. He's also nearly guaranteed to have a significant slump in that time, given his age.
 
Raoul said:
Its not about how much you or I think an 18 year old should be paid, but more so what the market dictates. If a club like Chelsea are involved and we want him, then we have to compete in the range of weekly wages that all of his potential suitors are willing to pay.
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But Raoul, what happens when we try and renegotiate a contract with Januzaj. Or when we have another young prodigy coming through our ranks and we try and tie him down. Because I feel they will all look at Shaw and think about getting as close to his figure. Do we start handing out such contracts regularly or let them leave because we are not ready to be bullied?
 
Freak said:
It sets a precedent for our future dealings with players that age both within the club and outside. How can anyone justify that sort of wages for him? We can just walk away and go for someone else with more realistic wages.
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That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that if we don't sign the players we want, someone else will, and it will usually be one our direct competitors. If we want to compete in the sugar daddy era, we're going to have to be prepared to match their spending when it involves a player we really want.
 
NK86 said:
But Raoul, what happens when we try and renegotiate a contract with Januzaj. Or when we have another young prodigy coming through our ranks and we try and tie him down. Because I feel they will all look at Shaw and think about getting as close to his figure. Do we start handing out such contracts regularly or let them leave because we are not ready to be bullied?
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If the player in question is important enough for us to keep, then supply and demand will sort out the wages. If the player is very good and in demand they will be able to get higher wages. In Januzaj's case, just preemptively give him a higher wage package so that the issue is off the table.
 
Dante said:
For this kind of money he'd have to be a young Cafu. I've only watched him against United and he's never stood out.
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Theres only one young Cafu and he's the majestic creature that is Flanagan :nono:
 
Raoul said:
If the player in question is important enough for us to keep, then supply and demand will sort out the wages. If the player is very good and in demand they will be able to get higher wages. In Januzaj's case, just preemptively give him a higher wage package so that the issue is off the table.
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That's what I am trying to say. This season a player of Januzaj's ability was tied down by us for about 40k/week. So we could have at least used that example to tie down other young talents. Now if we smash that and give 85k/week to Shaw, we raise the bar for the salary for such talents within the space of 8 months. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea.
 
NK86 said:
That's what I am trying to say. This season a player of Januzaj's ability was tied down by us for about 40k/week. So we could have at least used that example to tie down other young talents. Now if we smash that and give 85k/week to Shaw, we raise the bar for the salary for such talents within the space of 8 months. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea.
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There's a difference between players we already have and those we're competing with other clubs for. We weren't competing with other clubs on Januzaj though he was already with us and his hype was growing. In his case, we should just give him a higher wage package that's tied into his current deal.
 
Raoul said:
There's a difference between players we already have and those we're competing with other clubs for. We weren't competing with other clubs on Januzaj though as he was already with us and his hype was growing. In his case, we should just give him a higher wage package that's tied into his current deal.
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Fair enough if you think so. If we do go down this path, it will be interesting to see what happens a couple of years down the line when the likes of Wilson, Perreira, Pearson have to be tied down to full contracts. Signing Shaw on such high wages could easily see us having to fork out more on such other talents through our rank or risk losing them. Since we have had a policy of keeping our wages less than 50% of our revenue, it will surely impact that as well. Something we have already seen with Rooney getting his new deal.
 
NK86 said:
Fair enough if you think so. If we do go down this path, it will be interesting to see what happens a couple of years down the line when the likes of Wilson, Perreira, Pearson have to be tied down to full contracts. Signing Shaw on such high wages could easily see us having to fork out more on such other talents through our rank or risk losing them. Since we have had a policy of keeping our wages less than 50% of our revenue, it will surely impact that as well. Something we have already seen with Rooney getting his new deal.
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Its possible, although I reckon we're not going to have many breakthrough youth players in the future given that we look more like buying our players than bringing them through the youth ranks.
 
Raoul said:
Its possible, although I reckon we're not going to have many breakthrough youth players in the future given that we look more like buying our players than bringing them through the youth ranks.
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That will suck if we go down the route of simply buying our way out of troubles every time.
 
NK86 said:
That will suck if we go down the route of simply buying our way out of troubles every time.
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There's atleast 6 or 7 billionaire ownership clubs competing for the same shit we are. We need to buy the best young players for the future, but also buy the best established players for the now so we're not left behind.

No offence man, but top teams arent afforded the luxury of playin young players in key areas to get them to speed. Some teams dont have any choice & with those teams there's less pressure to perform anyway, so its a win-win situation. Teams like Everton for example, will play young lads because they cant afford to buy, but they're not gunning for titles or riskin relegation etc, and they're also puttin these players in the shop window too.

We put young players out on loan to break them in, in the hope they'll be ready for the first team at some stage. Teams like Everton never put their best young players out on loan, they showcase them & then cry when they sell them down the line...
 
Red Hand Devil said:
There's atleast 6 or 7 billionaire ownership clubs competing for the same shit we are. We need to buy the best young players for the future, but also buy the best established players for the now so we're not left behind.

No offence man, but top teams arent afforded the luxury of playin young players in key areas to get them to speed. Some teams dont have any choice & with those teams there's less pressure to perform anyway, so its a win-win situation. Teams like Everton for example, will play young lads because they cant afford to buy, but they're not gunning for titles or riskin relegation etc, and they're also puttin these players in the shop window too.

We put young players out on loan to break them in, in the hope they'll be ready for the first team at some stage. Teams like Everton never put their best young players out on loan, they showcase them & then cry when they sell them down the line...
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I understand it and I have nothing against that. Buying a couple of world class players, leaders to steady the ship while we have a group of youngsters coming through makes perfect sense to me. But if we go out and start spending 100 million on players and don't even give the youth in our ranks a chance, it will definitely irk me.

For example, we kept going after Baines and just did not give Fabio a chance. Now obviously Moyes has seen him more in training that either of us but seeing him perform well for Cardiff shows that he could have been the perfect back up for both Rafael and Evra. Now instead of having that opportunity, we have to go hunting for a top notch left back and a back up as well if Evra leaves.
 
NK86 said:
I understand it and I have nothing against that. Buying a couple of world class players, leaders to steady the ship while we have a group of youngsters coming through makes perfect sense to me. But if we go out and start spending 100 million on players and don't even give the youth in our ranks a chance, it will definitely irk me.

For example, we kept going after Baines and just did not give Fabio a chance. Now obviously Moyes has seen him more in training that either of us but seeing him perform well for Cardiff shows that he could have been the perfect back up for both Rafael and Evra. Now instead of having that opportunity, we have to go hunting for a top notch left back and a back up as well if Evra leaves.
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I've seen Fabio many a time - U-21's & 1st team, and he's fallen way short. He'd never make it at United & you've just gotta cut your losses. Fabio was the better of the twins btw, captain of Brazil et al, but never showed anything to me that he'll make it. Rafa hit the weights & bulked up & became a terrier, but i want a someone like Coleman in to replace him. He's a liability - small man syndrome by the looks of it.

As Wenger said: "A man always thinks his wife is the best looking girl around..."

Not a dig at you at all mucker - just in general, but folk need to take the rose-tinted glasses off & stop sayin our players are equal or better than everyone elses... Liverpool fans have been doing that for years when they were shit & its crept into our crew now.

We're alot better than we've showed, but Moyes & his backroom team have always finished strongly - after havin a season like we've had..

Coincidence?????
 
Red Hand Devil said:
I've seen Fabio many a time - U-21's & 1st team, and he's fallen way short. He'd never make it at United & you've just gotta cut your losses. Fabio was the better of the twins btw, captain of Brazil et al, but never showed anything to me that he'll make it. Rafa hit the weights & bulked up & became a terrier, but i want a someone like Coleman in to replace him. He's a liability - small man syndrome by the looks of it.

As Wenger said: "A man always thinks his wife is the best looking girl around..."

Not a dig at you at all mucker - just in general, but folk need to take the rose-tinted glasses off & stop sayin our players are equal or better than everyone elses... Liverpool fans have been doing that for years when they were shit & its crept into our crew now.

We're alot better than we've showed, but Moyes & his backroom team have always finished strongly - after havin a season like we've had..

Coincidence?????
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Fabio was just an example. And I was thinking of him as a back up option and not first choice. Surely he could not have been worse than Smalling and Valencia this season in the RB spot. Having seen him for Cardiff since his move, he would definitely be an upgrade on either of them for that spot.

My point was simply that we have some very good talent coming through our academy at the present and we should be prepared to at least give them chances to prove themselves here. I would hate to have another Pogba situation.
 
NK86 said:
That will suck if we go down the route of simply buying our way out of troubles every time.
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We have to a make a fundamental decision if we want to be successful in the sugar daddy era, or whether we want to bargain as if we are a cheap mid table club. We obviously have more money than many think as evidenced by the Fellaini and Mata transfers, and the new reports that we're going to splash a lot this summer. In Shaw's case, the money we pay for him now will be of little consequence 15 years later after he's had a fantastic career as a world class player for United and England.
 
NK86 said:
Fabio was just an example. And I was thinking of him as a back up option and not first choice. Surely he could not have been worse than Smalling and Valencia this season in the RB spot. Having seen him for Cardiff since his move, he would definitely be an upgrade on either of them for that spot.

My point was simply that we have some very good talent coming through our academy at the present and we should be prepared to at least give them chances to prove themselves here. I would hate to have another Pogba situation.
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Point taken bro, but its one thing playing for United than it is Cardiff. I'd still take both over Fabio at RB though. Fergie didnt rate him & neither did most United fans. I think many of us toyed with idea of a set of twins playin week in week out for us for many years. Fabio doesnt have the the attitude that Rafa has. He's a wee demon. Look at the muscle Rafa put on, whereas in the same period - Fabio was exactly the same lightweight stature & he still pretty much is the same build. Lack of application to being a better athlete in my book!

There's a shitload of great talent comin through the ranks & Moyes will give them a chance. Would Mourinho or say Ancelloti do that? I doubt it man! Moyes was given the shot because he has an eye on youth (not in a ice-cream van outside a primary school kinda way either) & thats the United way. Wilson is next in line to mirror Adnan i hope...
 
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