Luke Shaw | Deal done! Almost...

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Invictus said:
If Southampton want to be smartarsed and reject even 30 million, I say let's switch our priorities ASAP. There is certainly no dearth of talented young left backs across Europe these days as opposed to right backs. Some of them are bound to be available :

1 Ricardo Rodriguez (Wolfsburg) - One the best already IMO. Just 22 and won't cost a lot. 20 million should seal the deal.
2 Layvin Kurzawa (Monaco) - Evra's heir apparent for France. Should be cheap.
3 Alberto Moreno (Sevilla) - If he hasn't signed with Liverpool yet, I say let's hijack the deal. We have the added attraction of his mates De Gea and Mata.
4 Juan Bernat (Valencia) - Same as Moreno.

Daley Blind (Ajax), De Sciglio (Milan) - can play both LB and RB, Ben Davies (Swansea) , Sead Kolasinac (Schalke) as backup options.
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1) Ricardo Rodriguez is at a mega rich club, they have no need to sell.. £20m still wouldn't be enough.
2) Same as above, why would oil rich Monaco sell an asset for cheap?
3) I like the kid, if not Liverpool bound then we should steal him if the Shaw deal can't be done.
4) Not as good as Moreno or Rodriquez

Blind is going on the one game for Holland people have seen I'd imagine, many people on twitter say he had a poor season at Ajax, Ben Davies isn't Utd standard and I have no idea who the other guy is.

All in all I hope we get this Shaw deal sorted, he isn't worth £30m right now but considering he will (par utter failure etc) he'd be first choice for many years to come.
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
1) Ricardo Rodriguez is at a mega rich club, they have no need to sell.. £20m still wouldn't be enough.
2) Same as above, why would oil rich Monaco sell an asset for cheap?
3) I like the kid, if not Liverpool bound then we should steal him if the Shaw deal can't be done.
4) Not as good as Moreno or Rodriquez

Blind is going on the one game for Holland people have seen I'd imagine, many people on twitter say he had a poor season at Ajax, Ben Davies isn't Utd standard and I have no idea who the other guy is.

All in all I hope we get this Shaw deal sorted, he isn't worth £30m right now but considering he will (par utter failure etc) he'd be first choice for many years to come.
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Didn't he win Player of the Year in Holland?
 
Wilson Litchmore said:
A little unrelated, but when you watch England players, does make me think how the media talk them up. What we call world beaters, are just regular players to other countries.
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100%

Take last nights match, I heard the word "outstanding" and "fantastic" used numerous times to describe some of the English performances! :wenger:

Also I don't like the idea of having a United back 4 consisting of 3 English players tbh.

They are just far better players in world football that can be assembled.
 
LonelyFire said:
That's what Spanish press believe. Coentrao won place back in the team cause marcelo got an injury - he then couldn't get back in the team. Coentrao was first pick from around the new year
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They would be mad to sell Marcelo. Would love him here.
 
Is Blind even a regular LB for Ajax? I was under the impression that he plays more of a DM role.
 
Mel_F said:
Is Blind even a regular LB for Ajax? I was under the impression that he plays more of a DM role.
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He rotates a lot to be honest. Bit of a Phil Jones type player. Martins Indi is similar as well. I have a feeling Van Gaal will want to bring one of Blind/Indi.
 
Mel_F said:
Is Blind even a regular LB for Ajax? I was under the impression that he plays more of a DM role.
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Blind played 11 games as a left back in Ajax 4-1-4-1 system, Boilesen played 17 as left back. But that don't mean that he's a better player than Blind, only that Blind is a better option as a central midfielder than the other ones Ajax have. Blind played as a central midfielder 17 times.
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
He did, that'll teach me for not doing my research before posting lol I was only going off what I read on twitter a few times and they said Blind had a pretty average season.
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He was booed by Ajax fans at the beginning of the season because they didn't think he should be starting so he must not have started well.
 
Wilson Litchmore said:
A little unrelated, but when you watch England players, does make me think how the media talk them up. What we call world beaters, are just regular players to other countries.
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You're right about that, Luca Digne have been a better player than Shaw and despite the fact that he plays for PSG, i'm sure that we could have him for less or around the same amount.
 
With fewer games next season, we can probably make it through the season with Evra and Buttner as our left backs.
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
1) Ricardo Rodriguez is at a mega rich club, they have no need to sell.. £20m still wouldn't be enough.
2) Same as above, why would oil rich Monaco sell an asset for cheap?
3) I like the kid, if not Liverpool bound then we should steal him if the Shaw deal can't be done.
4) Not as good as Moreno or Rodriquez

Blind is going on the one game for Holland people have seen I'd imagine, many people on twitter say he had a poor season at Ajax, Ben Davies isn't Utd standard and I have no idea who the other guy is.

All in all I hope we get this Shaw deal sorted, he isn't worth £30m right now but considering he will (par utter failure etc) he'd be first choice for many years to come.
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1. I think he will be open for a move and new challenge which can force the club to sell and 20m for him I think will be enough to get him.
2. I agree with you here
3. I prefer him to Shaw to be honest - a lot cheaper, I think he's arguably the same quality and we can use the rest of the funds to buy a CB or RB option.
4. Agree

Blind I think is someone who can fill into the LB position, but he's not natural LB...
 
Wilson Litchmore said:
A little unrelated, but when you watch England players, does make me think how the media talk them up. What we call world beaters, are just regular players to other countries.

I remember a press conference with Pep when he was Barca manager, and someone asked what his thoughts were on Whiltshire, he said good player but we have many Whiltshire's in our B squad (or something like that).....

Shaw's good but Evra can still do a job even Southampton piss us about....
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Not the best example, given that Wilshere ended up giving Barcelona an extremely tough time over that tie.
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
1) Ricardo Rodriguez is at a mega rich club, they have no need to sell.. £20m still wouldn't be enough.
2) Same as above, why would oil rich Monaco sell an asset for cheap?
3) I like the kid, if not Liverpool bound then we should steal him if the Shaw deal can't be done.
4) Not as good as Moreno or Rodriquez

Blind is going on the one game for Holland people have seen I'd imagine, many people on twitter say he had a poor season at Ajax, Ben Davies isn't Utd standard and I have no idea who the other guy is.

All in all I hope we get this Shaw deal sorted, he isn't worth £30m right now but considering he will (par utter failure etc) he'd be first choice for many years to come.
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1. So what if Wolfsburg is mega rich ? That doesn't stop other clubs from extracting their players. This is the club that sold their best player to City for 27 million just 3 seasons ago. German clubs apart from Bayern generally don't refuse good deals. And it's not like as if United is some scrub team. Despite the setback of last season we're still a massive club. And who says 20 million won't be enough when the most expensive Bundesliga transfer of all time was 31 million and that was the greatest German attacking talent of his generation ?

2. Monaco will have to trim their squad if they are to comply with FFP. This is a club that has dogpoo revenue and spent like a drunk sailor last season. I don't care how much money the Oligarch has. He will have to sell to comply with FFP. United is a far bigger club and we can afford to match their selling price.

3. Ok.

4. He's also younger than both and definitely full of potential. Anyone who's familiar with La Liga knows that.

"Many people" who ? People that have pre-conceived notions of the player despite never watching Eredivisie ? You do know some people have rated him for 2 whole seasons and not just one solitary match ? If he had such a poor season at Ajax as "many people on twitter say" he wouldn't have been awarded Eredivisie player of the Year.

Was Patrice Evra United standard at 21 when he was at Nice with zero French caps ? Ben Davies has a lot of potential to develop still. He's really experienced for his age playing almost every game for Swansea these past 2 seasons and has 10 caps for Wales.

Maybe watch Bundesliga to know who Kolasinac is..
 
Ubik said:
Not the best example, given that Wilshere ended up giving Barcelona an extremely tough time over that tie.
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That wasn't the point. The point wasn't that he's not a good player, just what 'we' hold up as the next English footballing genius, I think Pep was saying thats Barca's minimum expectation from their players. Wilshere was suppose to be the figurehead of this world cup campaign a few years back, now he's coming off the bench doing 20 mins cameo's.....

.
 
Wilson Litchmore said:
That wasn't the point. The point wasn't that he's not a good player, just what 'we' hold up as the next English footballing genius, I think Pep was saying thats Barca's minimum expectation from their players. Wilshere was suppose to be the figurehead of this world cup campaign a few years back, now he's coming off the bench doing 20 mins cameo's.....

.
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His progress had stalled over the years since that season, mainly due to injuries. If Pep and Barca had people better than him in their midfield, they would have taken over Xavi by now. They don't and the one they had is now playing at Bayern. So all that talk of minimum expectations was just bs I say, at least at that time when Wilshere looked like he would be the next big thing.
 
Find it amazing that people automatically assume Blind would be the perfect alternative after 1 good game against Spain. And for those who want Coentrao, he just signed a new contract I believe. Shaw was the best left back in the league at the age of 18 and one of Southampton's best players throughout the season. They were always going to play hardball, they are losing all their best players this season.
 
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El-Manos said:
Find it amazing that people automatically assume Blind would be the perfect alternative after 1 good game against Spain. And for those who want Coentrao, he just signed a new contract I believe.
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Find it amazing that people automatically assume that posters rating Blind have only watched him for one match. It's as if the Eredivisie doesn't even exist and as if he wasn't awarded Dutch league footballer of the season last year for a very good campaign at Ajax.
 
Feed Me said:
Northcroft / The Times are just trying to stir the pot. It can't be doom and gloom if we've initially bid £27m and Soton are holding out for £30m. Sounds like a standard negotiating situation, with both parties not a million miles apart. Best case scenario is that Shaw stays on the bench all summer, so there's no chance of hype driving the price up.
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Indeed. Not really anything to worry about.
 
Invictus said:
1. So what if Wolfsburg is mega rich ? That doesn't stop other clubs from extracting their players. This is the club that sold their best player to City for 27 million just 3 seasons ago. German clubs apart from Bayern generally don't refuse good deals. And it's not like as if United is some scrub team. Despite the setback of last season we're still a massive club. And who says 20 million won't be enough when the most expensive Bundesliga transfer of all time was 31 million and that was the greatest German attacking talent of his generation ?

2. Monaco will have to trim their squad if they are to comply with FFP. This is a club that has dogpoo revenue and spent like a drunk sailor last season. I don't care how much money the Oligarch has. He will have to sell to comply with FFP. United is a far bigger club and we can afford to match their selling price.

3. Ok.

4. He's also younger than both and definitely full of potential. Anyone who's familiar with La Liga knows that.

"Many people" who ? People that have pre-conceived notions of the player despite never watching Eredivisie ? You do know some people have rated him for 2 whole seasons and not just one solitary match ? If he had such a poor season at Ajax as "many people on twitter say" he wouldn't have been awarded Eredivisie player of the Year.

Was Patrice Evra United standard at 21 when he was at Nice with zero French caps ? Ben Davies has a lot of potential to develop still. He's really experienced for his age playing almost every game for Swansea these past 2 seasons and has 10 caps for Wales.

Maybe watch Bundesliga to know who Kolasinac is..
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You are right, German clubs other than Bayern are seen to be selling clubs but Wolfsburg don't need our money and won't sell Ricardo on the cheap just because we come calling.

I take your point about FFP but as a home grown player you'd think it would be in Monaco interest to keep him surely?

I don't know who they are, I've already said I should have done some research about Blind before commenting but it also seems he plays more in midfield for Ajax than he does at LB which is where we need him to play.

I personally don't get the hype around Ben Davies, he is an average premier league player.
 
Invictus said:
Find it amazing that people automatically assume that posters rating Blind have only watched him for one match. It's as if the Eredivisie doesn't even exist and as if he wasn't awarded Dutch league footballer of the season last year for a very good campaign at Ajax.
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To be fair, the majority have. Unless people have a feck load of spare time, where they watch every league in Europe which I sincerely doubt. The lad is 24 years old and plays in the Eredivisie, not in the Premier league. Shaw's ceiling is by far higher considering his age and potential. People complain we miss out on the best young players and now that we are possibly willing to spend big in order to land them, people complain again?
 
Invictus said:
Find it amazing that people automatically assume that posters rating Blind have only watched him for one match. It's as if the Eredivisie doesn't even exist and as if he wasn't awarded Dutch league footballer of the season last year for a very good campaign at Ajax.
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I can't remember too many people singing his praises and rating him as the perfect replacement for Evra prior to the appointment of Van Gaal. That isn't to say everyone, but you'd be a fool if you couldn't see any correlation.
 
El-Manos said:
Find it amazing that people automatically assume Blind would be the perfect alternative after 1 good game against Spain. And for those who want Coentrao, he just signed a new contract I believe. Shaw was the best left back in the league at the age of 18 and one of Southampton's best players throughout the season. They were always going to play hardball, they are losing all their best players this season.
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I would agree with you if it hadn't been for the fact that:

a) he wasn't good - he was outstanding
b) he was outstanding against Spain - not a mediocre Championside-side
c) he is a player van Gaal trusts and knows
 
lysglimt said:
I would agree with you if it hadn't been for the fact that:

a) he wasn't good - he was outstanding
b) he was outstanding against Spain - not a mediocre Championside-side
c) he is a player van Gaal trusts and knows
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If Blind is available for a reasonable price, there is no reason why we can't go for both. Blind is versatile so in that perspective he will be a valuable squad player. Still think Shaw should be our main left back target.
 
El-Manos said:
To be fair, the majority have. Unless people have a feck load of spare time, where they watch every league in Europe which I sincerely doubt. The lad is 24 years old and plays in the Eredivisie, not in the Premier league. Shaw's ceiling is by far higher considering his age and potential. People complain we miss out on the best young players and now that we are possibly willing to spend big in order to land them, people complain again?
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Not many are complaining about the club's willingness to spend big though mate. It's the apparent bending over backwards routine to satisfy the demands of a small time club like Southampton. Going by reports we are offering extremely handsome amounts of money for the player that probably no other club will match. But Southampton have been fannying about instead of meeting at a middle ground and agreeing the fee. This will set an extremely poor precedent for future negotiations because clubs will be made aware that they can take advantage of our situation. What if every player that we want has a club that milks us for the last penny and delays the negotiations for months on end ?
 
£30m is hardly a significant increase on the £27m we have already bid. If we offer the £30m and Southampton keep dicking around we should just move on because surely no one else is going to bid more than that for him.
 
itso 7 said:
Not when accomplished player like Fabregas goes for £27m !
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An accomplished player like Fabregas who his club wanted rid of and one of the hottest young properties in the country. You'll always get one cheaper and one over priced. But look at guys like Dzeko Fellaini Lescott Carroll all average to good players but the prices for them are ridiculously high.
 
RuudTom83 said:
100%

Take last nights match, I heard the word "outstanding" and "fantastic" used numerous times to describe some of the English performances! :wenger:

Also I don't like the idea of having a United back 4 consisting of 3 English players tbh.

They are just far better players in world football that can be assembled.
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I don't know, defence seems to be the one area that England actually produces genuine world class talent that can compare and be even better than their foreign counterparts.

Cole, Ferdinand and probably Terry were world class and were better than most in the world at one point. Unlike Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard who've all been dubbed world class, you'd be hard pressed to find at least 5 players in their position who were better when they were at their peak.
 
Lawman said:
An accomplished player like Fabregas who his club wanted rid of and one of the hottest young properties in the country. You'll always get one cheaper and one over priced. But look at guys like Dzeko Fellaini Lescott Carroll all average to good players but the prices for them are ridiculously high.
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there is a reason why only one of those four represented good business .
 
Invictus said:
Not many are complaining about the club's willingness to spend big though mate. It's the apparent bending over backwards routine to satisfy the demands of a small time club like Southampton. Going by reports we are offering extremely handsome amounts of money for the player that probably no other club will match. But Southampton have been fannying about instead of meeting at a middle ground and agreeing the fee. This will set an extremely poor precedent for future negotiations because clubs will be made aware that they can take advantage of our situation. What if every player that we want has a club that milks us for the last penny and delays the negotiations for months on end ?
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I agree with this. We will just shoot ourselves in the foot if we put in great bids, even overpriced ones, then get bullied to pay even more. Make a good bid - say it is our final offer - go to the next target in the same position and do the same there.

In the end we will have 2-3 on going bids on LB's and we would be the ones with leverage in the negotiations. "Well, we have a bid accepted for Rodriquez for just 20 millions so it is your call if you want to accept our original offer of 27 or not." Rather than going all in on one player and waiting until the deal is completely crashed before moving on to the next target.

We have already been pushed in to seing out the World Cup, if Shaw performs at a world class level there the prices will be further pushed up. In the end the transfer window will be closing and we will see a Fellaini pulled on us as they realize we don't have any other options and they can name any price and we are forced to pay it.
 
El-Manos said:
To be fair, the majority have. Unless people have a feck load of spare time, where they watch every league in Europe which I sincerely doubt. The lad is 24 years old and plays in the Eredivisie, not in the Premier league. Shaw's ceiling is by far higher considering his age and potential. People complain we miss out on the best young players and now that we are possibly willing to spend big in order to land them, people complain again?
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You don't need to have a tonne of spare time to see footage of the player and to see him play for Holland prior to the world cup. You also don't need to see every game, you just need to see enough of the player to see what his qualities are, presuming you have any kind of eye for talent spotting.

Shaw is a very talented player, I will agree with that but he's being overrated by English football fans. I know this because Blind was a million times better than Baines in their respective opening games yet nobody is calling for Shaw to replace Baines in the England team. Now, I personally want to see Blind signed as a holding midfielder but if Southampton continue to mess us around, it's not unreasonable that people suggest we go for Blind with the fullback spot in mind. Ultimately, Van Gaal knows his players better than we do.

This idea that Shaw's automatically superior to Blind is strange to me considering how different they are. Yes Shaw did well in the league, but Blind just played an inch-perfect game against one of the very best teams at the world cup and was at the centre of a lot of Holland's success.
 
manutddjw said:
Cole, Ferdinand and probably Terry were world class and were better than most in the world at one point.
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I take your point...but Smalling, Jones and Shaw are nowhere near being World Class, and to hope ALL three can emulate those players you mentioned seems slightly too optimistic if you ask me.
 
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You just hope we're not focusing too much time, and attention on Shaw whilst neglecting other potential transfers, much as i want him it isn't the be all, and end all, we have far more important players to sign for the short term anyway.

If he comes great, if he doesn't and we get an adequate back up then i'm happy enough with that.
 
Redo91 said:
Yes that's it. The Express have said he is staying put therefore it must be true.
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If I am not wrong it's been reported in yesterday's Times (newspaper) that talks are not going well or something.!?
 
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