We have no idea what Moyes has in mind, who he is going to sell or keep.
Luke Shaw | Deal done! Almost...
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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We have no idea what Moyes has in mind, who he is going to sell or keep.
Not if the likes of Chelsea and Reak Madrid are interested.
The whole 'hyped up British' narrative in this thread is boring. If there's an 18 year old full back that's doing what Luke Shaw is doing anywhere else in Europe then please point him out. There isn't many, if any at all.
His nationality is certainly not the reason he is highly-rated. He's highly-rated because practically every other 18 year old left back in Europe is still playing for the reserves. Shaw has been excelling in the top flight since just turned 17.
His nationality is certainly not the reason he is highly-rated. He's highly-rated because practically every other 18 year old left back in Europe is still playing for the reserves. Shaw has been excelling in the top flight since just turned 17.
Davies... 7m might get him and he looks quality plus he is young.
not saying he is better than shaw but fits your criteria... chambers as well... not sure what southampton would want but given his lack of games 7m probably wouldnt be far out and he is again british quality and young
£27 million is absolutely ridiculous money to be paying for him, in my opinion. But we will have to splash the cash this summer, can't afford not to.
27m sounds ludicrous for him. A good young player but come on, that is extremely high. Possibly the most expensive left back ever.
So was the money spent on Rio and Rooney all those years ago.
If Shaw is here for 12 years it could be good business.
If we are going to spend the huge money being mentioned I hope none of the players we spend it on are older than 23-24. Apart from for Vidal or another exceptional talent.
Wouldn't say so. Has any under 20 years old player cost 40-50m pounds. Even more experienced and as good as Rooney (both in ability and potential) like Aguero costed lower than that.
British players cost more.
Marqinos cost 27m for a centreback last summer
Neymar cost 48 million plus bribes at age 21... and lets be realistic he would not have cost much less at 20
a 20 year old gotze cost around 35m and that was only so low because of the buyout clause
so 40 - 50m for a young rooney does not seem that unrealistic
I think that a lot of fans are unappreciative of how footballing economics have changed in the past couple of years. Sugar daddies; BT coming into the EPL television rights market and the massive increase in advertising revenues have seen player price sky rocket.
Bale went for 85m in 2013
Neymar reported between 50 -110m in 2013
Cavani for 55m in 2013
Falcao for 51m in 2013
Ozil for 42.5m in 2013
That is five of the fifteen highest transfer fees in history made in last summers window. I think that we will see a good few more crazy fees this summer. The fact of the matter is that 27m does not get you a lot these days. 27m for Shaw, considering all the variables, is not unreasonable. Moyes does not seem to want to go and find hidden gems and I am quite glad about that as I don't trust him to.
Bale went for 85m in 2013
Neymar reported between 50 -110m in 2013
Cavani for 55m in 2013
Falcao for 51m in 2013
Ozil for 42.5m in 2013
That is five of the fifteen highest transfer fees in history made in last summers window. I think that we will see a good few more crazy fees this summer. The fact of the matter is that 27m does not get you a lot these days. 27m for Shaw, considering all the variables, is not unreasonable. Moyes does not seem to want to go and find hidden gems and I am quite glad about that as I don't trust him to.
£27 mill for a 18 year old like Shaw really isn't much in the long run. Yeah it's a lot of money now - but then you get a player who easily will have that spot for 10 years.
Gotze was at similar talent but much more experienced and developed than Rooney. I give you Neymar though, it was crazy how much he cost (around 100m if we combine all the things). Still around 30m for Shaw is extreme.
I think people really underestimate just how far Evra has fallen.
He lets players walk past him one on one, he doesn't stop the winger getting the cross in, when he's caught up field he jogs back. This is basically every game, occasionally we'll play a team so shit it's not noticeable. We're in for a real treat when we get a left back in who can actually be arsed.
If Shaw reached Ashley Cole's level within the next few years, would you lot say the fee would be justified? I would. A gamble though, no guaruntee he will make it.
Coentrao is such an obvious and logical signing it's painful. If we get him in the summer it'll be 12 months too late. Wasted so much fecking time chasing Baines.
He's already a very good fullback who would improve us, so that on it's own is enough if he's here for the rest of his career. He'll no doubt improve as long as he doesn't get a huge injury. We have to pay a bit over the odds because of no champions league football but he's worth it in the long run no doubt.
He's not actually that great though. Would improve us a bit but not that much and would still probably be a bit of a weak point in the team. Would have been a good loan signing but not what we currently need.
This is what I think is putting off a lot of people, including myself. People who have seen him know he has the potential to be world-class, and is Cole's natural successor. I just think £27 million for an 18 year old defender is a tad much, even though we paid that much for Rooney at the time he was 18. Difference for me there is that Rooney really was billed to be the best striker in the coming years, whereas I don't quite get that from Shaw as of yet.
Players don't neccessarily always improve though. Plenty of players either think they've made it and get lazy, don't suit their new club or just don't push on for a whole of manner of reasons which can be related to or not related directly to football.
It's definitely not some sort of guarantee that an 18 year old is going to get a lot better if he doesn't get injured. There's loads of players who either peak at around 18 or even in some cases decline from there.
He is dumbass to boot. I hate stupid players. I guess he is living off his reputation from Euro'12 because he hasn't done much in the last couple of years.
Shaw or Luis should be our top 2 choices. My preference would be Luis since we will lose a lot of experience from our defense next season.
Shaw or Luis should be our top 2 choices. My preference would be Luis since we will lose a lot of experience from our defense next season.
He is.
We'd be upgrading from a full back who literally can't be arsed defending to a very good full back. That's enough improvement for me. Unless the world is crawling with world class left backs that are a decent age and available then I don't think we can afford to be picky.
Would you really pick experience over longevity should they be the options? Shaw has the potential to be better than Luis, but Luis is at his max potential and has a better chance of fitting in more quickly.
It's a tough call, mate. Shaw, if he fulfils his potential can give us 10+ years in the LB position and is English. It's still a gamble at that price though. Luis would fit in our team seamlessly and give us stability that our defense needs at the moment. I think I would pick Luis and be a little short-termist with our supposed transition next season. We really could do with some stability in defense. He would be a better choice, imo.
I agree on this. Luis would probably cost around half of this reported price for Shaw, and he would most probably provide more probability than Shaw would instantly. I would like to wait to see if Shaw develops much further, and perhaps in a couple of years buy him when he has shown his consistency has continued. His price wouldn't increase that much further in a couple of years time I reckon, so it will be interesting to see if Moyes actually gets either.
With City and Chelsea both interested and given how talented he is at only 18 we're certainly looking at figures north of 20m. I'd love to see us sign him and 27m wouldn't bother me at all.
He's no Luke Shaw. Look I see your point of view and in many ways I agree with it. However we're spending 27m on potential ie an excellent player who would be able to sort the LB role for the next 14 years. 27m would be peanuts if seen in that way. He's also British which means that he will fit the homegrown criteria (there are rumours that Rio and Giggs will retire and Cleverley will be sold) and there will be less probably that he will dream of Real Madrid or Barcelona the next time they come knocking at our door.
What worries me is not the 27m fee. What worries me is the inconsistency of defenders in being able to convert potential into something more concrete. Football history is filled with new 'Maldinis', 'Baresi' and 'Thurams' that turned up to be just decent if not shit. At United we had our share with OShea and Wes (they showed early signs of pure brilliance only to become squad players level at best) and we're still struggling to bring Evans, Smalling and Jones to Rio/Vidic level.
The moment we're interested they'll put the price at £15 million
You do realise world class players would not be content to be squad players? Every squad has to have some players who are a tier below with a sprinkling of young players making their way into the first team. Brown and O'Shea just had players who were better in their positions.
Brown and O'Shea were great cover for the likes of Rio, Vidic, Neville, and Evra.
That has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that potential is a volatile thing especially amongst defenders. Oshea was simply tremendous in his first year here. I likened him to a young Thuram and I dont consider myself the type to be carried away in terms of praising. Regarding Wes, we all know what SAF said when Rio signed for Leeds for 18m. "If Rio is worth 18m then how much is Wes worth 30m?" It turned out that Wes ended up just a cover while Rio became the best CB of SAF's era. I can mention a number of players who are completely non related to United who failed to justify the incredible potential shown in the early years. For example Francesco Coco and Davide Santon were both highlighted as potential Maldini successors. It didn't turned out that way.
BTW I never expected a squad of world class players and I know the squad players worth. What I find hilarious is how we treat squad players which in my opinion is way over the top. Titles like legends and great servants to the club borders to the ridiculous. I mean we're not talking here about Ryan Giggs who turned down a blank cheque to stay with us and was central in all our success through the years. We're talking about players who would have probably won nothing and get less paid if they left United for some other club. Many EPL mid table level players would gladly swap their own career to that of OShea and Wes Brown.
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I agree - for example how many "next messi's" will we have before we actually have another comparable player - there was enough false dawns with the next maradonnas.
That being said I like Shaw and I would love us to get him and Chambers from Southampton
Southampton financials have come out today, showing they owe £27m in transfer fees. Looks like they'll be selling a few this summer.
The best times at United over the years have always been those with young players in a young team for me. Building for the future, watching their development, the promise and the hope and the energy (remember that?).
Buy Shaw and let's have more like him. So they won't be ready to win the title next year, but the club's not just about next season, at our greatest we've always looked further ahead than that.
Buy Shaw and let's have more like him. So they won't be ready to win the title next year, but the club's not just about next season, at our greatest we've always looked further ahead than that.
£27m is a lot of money but we could probably bring that down to about £20m which would be just about fair. It all depends on how much we have to spend in the Summer - if it's really £200m then £27m is fine, if it's close to £100m then I'd rather we signed Coentrao for £10m.
perhaps how much we will get in could also be a factor?
if hernandez, nani, young, valencia, kagawa, cleverly and some younggsters all leave that could be the best part of 80m plus a lot off the wage bill so potentially a 100m net spend will not look all that different to a 200m gross spend.
a 100m gross spend with the likley departures would not actually be much money at all... and surely the glazers wouldnt do that to us would they
Don't you dare touch Valencia and Young, you awful person.perhaps how much we will get in could also be a factor?
if hernandez, nani, young, valencia, kagawa, cleverly and some younggsters all leave that could be the best part of 80m plus a lot off the wage bill so potentially a 100m net spend will not look all that different to a 200m gross spend.
a 100m gross spend with the likley departures would not actually be much money at all... and surely the glazers wouldnt do that to us would they
Kagawa, Hernandez and Nani will go. Won't fetch much.
40m plus surely - and with a good world cup behind them possibly more
We paid this kind of amount for both Rooney and Ferdinand..
That worked out nicely.. I wouldn´t mind it at all if we signed Shaw for 27m!
At the end of the day it's always a gamble. As much as Rooney and Rio looked certainties to be world class players in the long run, spending 30m odd on a player of that age is always going to be a risk. There are a load of examples of wonderkids who've ended up world class, there is an even longer list of hyped youngsters that either peak early or never fulfill their early promise.
Shaw is probably the best teenager playing in the Premier League atm, but there's never a guarantee he'll get better. You have to put faith in the scouting team to spot the signs and if they're prepared to shell out 25m plus on a teenager at full back then they've got to be pretty convinced about his potential. Seems ano brainer to us fans, but for those sorts of sums it never is.
Shaw is probably the best teenager playing in the Premier League atm, but there's never a guarantee he'll get better. You have to put faith in the scouting team to spot the signs and if they're prepared to shell out 25m plus on a teenager at full back then they've got to be pretty convinced about his potential. Seems ano brainer to us fans, but for those sorts of sums it never is.
What makes people so sure he would stay 10+ years? He might but when you're looking at how good/bad a deal is I think your first criteria should be over the length of the contract the player is signing. So, is Shaw for 27 million and whatever wages he'll be on over a 5 year period a good deal?
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