The only area of his game that can be questioned is his attacking side, criticizing his defensive play is you seeing what you want to see..
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Always love when people talk in absolutes. World's best LB, defensively eh?
I think it’s reasonable to not expect them to be Park Ji Sung and Ronaldinho at the same time to be fair. You are speaking of our two primary sources of creativity in the team. Football teams don’t need to have perfect symmetry. It’s obvious that Herrera’s job on the right of our midfield is a lot different to Pogba’s on the left.
You did say that his defensive game has zero scope for criticism or in other words there are no flaws at all. And critics are just being purposefully obtuse and imagining stuff.
So doesn't that make him best in the world then.
That's just being disingenuous with my words
I could do the same with any of our other players
Criticising Herrera's defensive game is you seeing what you want to see, does that make him the best DM in the world?
Criticising Lingard's movement is you seeing what you want to see, does that make his movement the best in the world?
If you can't see the mental gymnastics you're busting out here then there is no help for you.
Such a very strange thing to say, given his positional play, anticipation of moves and interplay with teammates is still inconsistent to me, yet I don’t really want to see it.
For me this is one of his strengths as he reads one-twos around him very well and snuffs out danger with his pace on time
It's an impossible job to hold down that left wing on his own with the two attack minded people playing ahead of him (Pogba and Martial) but he still does a terrific job
His attacking play on the other hand could use some work.
If you don’t see any of the mentioned weaknesses in his defensive play, we’ll have to disagree. There’s no need to imply that people disagreeing with you see ‘what they want to see’, though.
What weaknesses is it you see by the way in his defence?
Mentioned in the original answer to yfoFC’s post, I find his defensive positioning inconsistent, I think he oftentimes is slow to react to runs or combinations from the opposite team (quick when he runs, though), and that his awareness of how to move with his teammates, who covers who, who covers wich space still seems inconsistent. I should mention he loses the ball in dangerous positions to often as well, as I see it as a defensive quality.
He’s not really horrible at any of this, just inconsistent, which is not very damning at all if he continues to improve like he has. His one-on-one play defensively is very impressive most times, and he is quick when he moves and strong in the duels. I rate him as very good defensively for his age, but my answer was to the claim that there is nothing to criticise him for defensively.
Shaw has been playing a lot, but honestly can't really recall too many instances where he has tangible contributions to the game-especially attacking wise. Feel like people were so desperate for him to come good they have over-sensationalized anything he has done. For me he has been meh. Still not the high level i expected from him
He's very average player. Doesn't excel at defending that much or attacking. The only thing he gives us natural balance being left footed on the left. He'll make himself available to the pass but doesn't take initiative on the ball and run forward with it. He's got a strong body and should be using it a lot more going forward. In addition to that his crossing isn't good. Look at the crosses Dalot made in one game compared to shaw. That's sort of impact you expect from the fullback.
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I would say that possibly your first point I’d maybe agree with but it’s not something that I’ve noticed lots just once or twice against Newcastle last year for example but that was yet another game where he was having to cover 2 or 3 players. I do think at times he backs his speed and strength too much to get him out of sticky situations but in general I think his reading of play is actually pretty good.
The moving with your team mates I think we have to look at the much bigger picture here as it’s chopped and changed so much from kamikaze style defenders like Rojo and Jones to Lindelof so it’s quite hard for the team as a whole to get any sync.
Losing the ball? Not something I’ve noticed upon checking his stats I can see he barely loses the ball if ever and is by some margin better than Young at this but Young of course is more likely to whip crosses in or just turn over possession trying something where Luke gets involved in these triangles with Martial and Pogba but I’ll keep an eye out to see if he really does turn over possession that much.
In general there is a lot for him still to improve on and hopefully as the team gets better so will he but there is certainly a very good player there and without spending silly money I don’t see where we buy better from. One thing he does need to do is get better at the attacking phase of which he was so good at at Southampton wouldgo outside or inside of people didn’t matter, he’d ride tackles, people would bounce off of him and then he’d put great balls across the box that Southampton were just rubbish at finishing. He needs to get back more of that in his game but for me he’s our man for LB.
Yeah, people get caught up in their own expectations, and now see him as a super leftback, which he isn’t. He is acceptable, but really needs to improve or we will eventually need to upgrade this important position. FBs are key in the game, just look at any elite team and there will most likely be a FB that really stands out. Shaw doesn’t stand out at all.
Oh, I agree with a lot of what you say, and he is my man for LB as well. I did see why Mourinho was so frustrated with him, it was mostly defensive positioning, and he seems a slow learner. He has improved much, though.
I think he is very good on the ball. In a way he reminds me og Evra, who wasn’t great crossing, but very good to play pass and move out of tight spaces to get upfield, which I think is more important for a ball playing team. The problem is not him wasting possession often, absolutely not, but more about when he does. I’d say a much larger proportion of his lost passes or duels leads to good attacking opportunities for the other team compared to, say, Young or Valencia. Evra learnt this, and I’m confident Shaw will too. If his final ball never comes good, I’m not so fussed with that. We’re not Everton (anymore) and don’t need Baines.
I was starting to doubt him under Mourinho, true, but this season he has convinced me (from the start) he is able to fight and learn.
I’m not sold to be honest. I think we need to upgrade.
I’m impressed with his form this season and he has improved massively. But he’s not that good, and I just have a feeling he’s a little slow in terms of positioning etc. He’s not the best defender I have ever seen, and going forward he leaves a lot to be desired. That’s also backed up by attacking stats (or lack of).
Think half of being tired of him is thinking ‘oh he will improve. He’s only young. He’s been injured’ etc. Bored of that and now. He’s fully fit now, performing okay but need an extra level out of him or he needs replacing. You only have to look at what Mendy was doing at the start of the season or what Robertson does for Liverpool to see what a proper left back should be doing and what they can contribute to attacks.
I’m impressed with his form this season and he has improved massively. But he’s not that good, and I just have a feeling he’s a little slow in terms of positioning etc. He’s not the best defender I have ever seen, and going forward he leaves a lot to be desired. That’s also backed up by attacking stats (or lack of).
Think half of being tired of him is thinking ‘oh he will improve. He’s only young. He’s been injured’ etc. Bored of that and now. He’s fully fit now, performing okay but need an extra level out of him or he needs replacing. You only have to look at what Mendy was doing at the start of the season or what Robertson does for Liverpool to see what a proper left back should be doing and what they can contribute to attacks.
I think his and probably the biggest issue for our team is that on that left side Pogba and Martial are clearly our best options and although at times I’m actually quite impressed with the defensive work they do it’s just so inconsistent and if Shaw has overlapped them or joined in and it breaks then that left side is toast as Matic just can’t get across to cover it.
Pogba and Martial are both capable of defending and recently Pogba has looked like the real deal in this aspect of putting in the work to get back and make things difficult for the opposition. I just think that whole left side when people look at Shaw’s play they tend to forget to look at the broader picture of what’s happening around him. I would think that a more energetic mobile Matic and a decent left sided CB who is comfortable going out wide and it’ll solve the defensive teething issues on the left and hopefully allow the other 3 to be more potent. Hopefully Martial does start to use more of this Luke Shaw runs and Luke stops suffering stage fright when he is there.
Wow people still blowing the Shaw trumpet. Luke Shaw is Jack Wilshere. We need an upgrade asap. He gets forward and just passes back inside. When does Shaw whip in crosses and overlap? He offers us nothing. Very limited FB when we need an attacking one. Is he even top 10 EPL LB? He is timid and boring. Look at how Robinson whips them in. Even Dalot shows more impetus and courage. Shaw is a chicken and poor outlet. No skills, no thrills, no vision, no width. He reminds me of a Phil Jones level but at FB. We need WC beastly dangermen
Who? Who do we upgrade to other than Sandro. The like of Tierney and Chillwell are not better LB’s.
You’ve also got to realise Robertson can do those sort of things due to the protection he is afforded with people like Milner, Henderson, Fabinho and what’s his face. Not to mention they are really good at opening up space on that left hand side where we aren’t and Robertson doesn’t tend to have the same affect for Scotland.
Any LB we bring in won’t have that sort of luxury to be bombing on. If we had a good RB though then that person could bomb on as naturally we draw defences to our left and the right side has acres of space.
I'm not sure if you're serious or not?
He deserves one more full season with us at least under an attacking minded manager. He is still only 23!. He is a solid left back in my opinion and I think if we did sell him we would soon realise how much of a sure bet he was.
Too slow off the mark, lacks agility and isn't disciplined or positions himself well enough to make up for it. He has strength and a great top speed that he makes good use of defensively, but not much for overlapping in attack. His short passing is his best attribute, but he can't dribble, never ever takes on a man and crosses worse than Valencia. Still, he's not our biggest concern.
Its strange when people say he doesnt do anything in attack. He played 3 long passes in behind Spurs defense just last week releasing Rashford and Martial, all 3 found their target and played a good part in our main tactic of the day. Matic went 7 and 3 with his long passes, Lindelof 5 and 1. Shaw tried less but they all worked. Ander had 5 attempts with 4 finding a teammate, probably better. But then Shaw.
He hasn't ever stayed fit for a full season. I agree we shouldn't get rid of him. That does not mean we shouldn't sign Ferland Mendy or Alex Telles. Both completely different types of LBs to Shaw and see how they suit our team compared to him. We cannot go into next season with one LB. Competition is needed. Once we get a LB who is competent going forward people will see how little Shaw actually does in an attacking sense.
Brutal but can't disagree.
I reckon that he will end up as a centre back (not necessarily here).
Robertson did it at his previous club too. Shaw plays the same regardless if he has Matic, Fellaini and Ander (defensive minded players) makes no difference because he is technically inadequate. I remember this Oxford Utd player said Shaw had a wand of a peg in their youth football days and played LW and banged them in for fun. Me and my housemate were in hysterics because he is technically a joke compared to other professionals.
Deadly serious. Most average FB we have had in years. I'd prefer Fabio or Rafael at their pomp. No joke. They atleast attacked aggressively. Shaw is just an extra body but no threat. If He played for a rival he'd get slated. He is like Arsenal crappy FBs. Even old man Zabaleta attacked with more energy and was more impressive than Shaw. Cannot dribble, cross, shoot, play through passes, overlap or provide any width. Young does it better than him down the right. Proper limited player. Dunno what he offer Manchester United football club
Robertson was no where near as effective at Hull. He was decent but let’s not re-write history. He wasn’t even first choice at Pool that long ago until he went to Klopp and asked him what he needed to do. The 3 mentioned do make a difference because it’s 3 mobile hard working guys that can cover. Herrera plays on the right hand side Matic can’t cover because he doesn’t have the energy or legs for it and Pogba is not particularly defensively astute hence why he Shaw can’t bomb on all the time. He has to be less adventurous because if he isn’t and a move breaks down we are toast. People need to look at the much wider picture and think how the team functions and why certain players do certain jobs.
What do you mean by “he’s a joke technically compared to other players”? He’s got a good first touch a good pass a good shot on him his crossing isn’t/ hasn’t been great because it’s practically non existent. He never seems to ever put one in and when he is in position he is normally looking to pick someone out with a pass.
I mean of course everyone is going to see things very differently but for me there is a player there and we’d struggle to buy better for less than 60mil and even then there probably aren’t many better around the same age, I can’t actually think of one of the top of my head.
He's a joke technically? What? He could be better going forward, but it's not a lack of technical ability that's holding him back.
Agreed, technically he's very sound. His touch and passing are good.
He's doing fine. Just think he needs to work on his crossing. If he was a quality crosser he'd be a menace.
at Fabio who had what 10 decent games for us?Stacks saying Shaw his trash technically is all I need to know to disregard that opinion on Shaw. Same like the people who hated Smalling for being slow or crap in the air.
Well, we really have to agree to disagree on his anticipation as I feel it is just fine.
I see you have replied @Andersons Dietician on the weaknesses you see in his game and overall I feel we are on the same page
Every player has areas of the game that's needs improvement and my saying his defensive game can't be criticized is pointing out that it's very solid and it's more his attacking game that needs tweaking
Honestly, if his defensive game is bad then he's a dud as he doesn't offer much in attack and I just don't see that.
My view on him is that he is a solid left back that doesn't particularly excel at many things. I'm okay with him as first choice since we usually have Martial and Pogba ahead of him, so defensive solidity - which he's got - is more important imo.
Although there is room for improvement, but I'd like us to get an attack-minded left back as another option and competition for him.
Although there is room for improvement, but I'd like us to get an attack-minded left back as another option and competition for him.
He will do for the time being as we have other positions In the team that need addressing now.
Then once those players are in place, we could do with a upgrade at left back to take us to the next level.
Then once those players are in place, we could do with a upgrade at left back to take us to the next level.
His offensive contribution is average. We need far better in that regard, especially as Pogba and Martial like to occupy central positions.
He is proving to be more reliable fitness wise and his improvement is evident. He has earnt to be in the squad until we find better
He is proving to be more reliable fitness wise and his improvement is evident. He has earnt to be in the squad until we find better
Just shows how statistics can fool you. He offers nothing going forward. NOTHING.
I don't get why spouting crap like this is becoming a trend on here. He's not hit his pre-legbreak heights yet but he's our best left-back nonetheless and he's improving. We all know Shaw can be very dangerous going forward. Back then he often put in dangerous crosses and went on marauding runs, which in the end resulted in the legbreak because Hector Moreno was so desperate to stop him INSIDE THEIR 16. It's not that he can't do it, it's just that Mourinho didn't allow it and he adapted. Give him and the rest of the squad a bit of time to get used to the United way of playing again.
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