[pocco]

What does calling him out in public achieve over a personal conversation? Can’t this be done in private?

Mourinho is calling out Luke Shaw to millions of people, saying that he almost begs to come off. I’m pretty sure he called him out last season too. Maybe Jose should realize that Shaw won’t be good enough for what he demands and leave it be.

I think he does it for a number of reasons.

It gives clarity to the situation for those on the outside. It's an element of self preservation from Jose in a way, the supporters don't know what Shaw is asked to do and, from our perspective, he's not done too bad in the last game. But Jose wants us to know that actually Shaw isn't doing what he has been told to do, so he's not playing well at all. It's not just form either, for whatever reason it seems that Shaw is just ignoring his instructions. Jose even went on to explain what he asked of him.

To you it seems like a big deal going public, but to Jose it isn't. The fans have expectations anyway, there is always pressure from the fans and media. All of our players need to be able to live with it if they want to be successful here. Like I said, it's sink or swim.

I think Jose and the club are possibly getting a bit tired of the manager and the club getting stick for performances and they have obviously took the stance that from now on the players will be held accountable also. As I mentioned in my other post, some of these players have got away with it for a number of years here now. We're onto our third manager since Fergie. There has to come a point where the players are held accountable also. I think this is the stage the club is at now.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

It looks like Shaw is going to try to wind down his contract & leave on a free the season after next. Wonder what the board think of a potential 50 million asset doing this, because he has the potential to be as good as Walker, & was bought as being one of the modern day full backs.. The only difference between the two being that Walker has had two modern thinking coaches in Poch & Guardiola, whilst Shaw has two dinosaurs under LVG & Mourinho.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It looks like Shaw is going to try to wind down his contract & leave on a free the season after next. Wonder what the board think of a potential 50 million asset doing this, because he has the potential to be as good as Walker, & was bought as being one of the modern day full backs.. The only difference between the two being that Walker has had two modern thinking coaches in Poch & Guardiola, whilst Shaw has two dinosaurs under LVG & Mourinho.

Sure that’s the only difference...

 

[breakout67]

It looks like Shaw is going to try to wind down his contract & leave on a free the season after next. Wonder what the board think of a potential 50 million asset doing this, because he has the potential to be as good as Walker, & was bought as being one of the modern day full backs.. The only difference between the two being that Walker has had two modern thinking coaches in Poch & Guardiola, whilst Shaw has two dinosaurs under LVG & Mourinho.

Aleggri handed Pochettino his arse in the CL using fecking Lichsteiner and Asomoah, who is the modern coach here?

 

[pascell]

It looks like Shaw is going to try to wind down his contract & leave on a free the season after next. Wonder what the board think of a potential 50 million asset doing this, because he has the potential to be as good as Walker, & was bought as being one of the modern day full backs.. The only difference between the two being that Walker has had two modern thinking coaches in Poch & Guardiola, whilst Shaw has two dinosaurs under LVG & Mourinho.

Potential means nothing if they're not willing to put in the work to achieve it. And ah yes Mourinho the dinosaur and Poch the superior, with all those trophies he has won...

 

[Ban]

It looks like Shaw is going to try to wind down his contract & leave on a free the season after next. Wonder what the board think of a potential 50 million asset doing this, because he has the potential to be as good as Walker, & was bought as being one of the modern day full backs.. The only difference between the two being that Walker has had two modern thinking coaches in Poch & Guardiola, whilst Shaw has two dinosaurs under LVG & Mourinho.

I bet Walker was cuddled and hugged regularly unlike our poor boy Shaw.
Dinosaurs don't cuddle Poch and Pep do.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Getting fed up of the headlines now. ‘Mourinho is destroying Shaw’ is the latest one on Sky.
No, the XL burgers with extra cheese are destroying Shaw. That and the lack of effort.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

See my post above. It's the final play by Jose to get a response out of Shaw. We've seen it before.

I think it was Makalele that said recently, Jose will only do this to the players he believes are playing below their capabilities. Why doesn't he dig out Blind, Darmian, Fellaini? Why is it always our perceived better players ie Pogba, Martial, Mkhitaryan, Shaw? It's always the players that have the high ceiling of ability but don't play that way. They let the likes of Young, Fellaini, McTominay, Lingard out perform them. Come on, this is blindingly obvious what is going on here.

Gordon Strachan basically said the same on Talksport last night. That he has tried the soft touch and that didn't work, now he is giving him the kick up the backside. He looked to have lost a lot of weight before the season, but cannot seem to maintain it. Anybody who has gone to Weightwatchers will know you have to work hard at keeping it off. It takes discipine. Maybe Luke just doesn't have that, it also take ambition to be the best you can. Jason Dodd hinted that maybe he doesn't have that either.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I bet Walker was cuddled and hugged regularly unlike our poor boy Shaw.
Dinosaurs don't cuddle Poch and Pep do.

Not sure Walker is the uber-sensitive type. Also Pep is a hard taskmaster. I imagine he can be a right nasty so-and-so if you are not putting the work in.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It looks like Shaw is going to try to wind down his contract & leave on a free the season after next. Wonder what the board think of a potential 50 million asset doing this, because he has the potential to be as good as Walker, & was bought as being one of the modern day full backs.. The only difference between the two being that Walker has had two modern thinking coaches in Poch & Guardiola, whilst Shaw has two dinosaurs under LVG & Mourinho.

You realise Poch has managed Shaw and had the same issues with him. Albeit at a younger age but fitness and dedication to fitness were the areas he had to always work on. Poch, Hodgson, LVG, Mou are they all wrong?

 

[RedorDead21]

He should stick to carpool karaoke....

 

[Jazz]

If Mou is doing all of this (singling him out) then why is it assumed that Shaw is this poor innocent victim ? I hate Mou and wish he'd feck off tbh but no one targets a player like that if the player is doing 100% what is asked of him.

But what has he done wrong? Wasn't he performing when Young was out? If he'd shown horrendous form during those games and a shite attitude, then it would be more than understandable. However, it's been the opposite from what we can see.
For the life of me I cannot see what Mourinho wants from him that he thinks Young is providing all the time. Young has made mistakes and not been great except for the Liverpool game, yet Mourinho hasn't treated him like this.

It's all a puzzle.

 

[Oldyella]

Looks like mission accomplished for Jose. Half our fans are calling out Shaw and want him gone. Wonder who he does it to the next time we have a blip in form.

Should Shaw be sold? Barring a miracle over these last few games, yes. Should Jose be digging him in public? No, even if he is looking for a response as some seem to think.

 

[roseguy64]

This definitely also relates to their argument before the Brighton match if those reports are true. Shaw would be the first one off if he was anything short of the best player on the pitch.

 

[breakout67]

Looks like mission accomplished for Jose. Half our fans are calling out Shaw and want him gone. Wonder who he does it to the next time we have a blip in form.

Should Shaw be sold? Barring a miracle over these last few games, yes. Should Jose be digging him in public? No, even if he is looking for a response as some seem to think.

I've been calling for Shaw to buck up his ideas long before today. Unlike some on here I actually hold him to high standards, instead of praising him for doing basic things like overlapping runs or doing a through ball.

Ashley Young is plain better than him, the level is so different that I'd have to question someone's intelligence otherwise. Even then I want a better left back than Young because Young falls asleep in defense because he's a refashioned winger.

The left back at this club should be good in defense and attack; that is the standard. Shaw is decent at defending and just plain horrible at attacking. When was the last time he put in a good cross, got an assist, scored a goal? For all their faults, Young is a very good crosser of the ball, and Valencia despite being a horrible crosser has got a few goals to his name this season. This is because they are in the right positions and have quality on the ball, something Shaw does not have.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Rather than a push to better himself, this is the push to get him out of the club. BBC, The Telegraph etc has reported that Shaw is fed-up with Mourinho. He most likely won't play in any of our remaining games, so i can't see how Mou's comments will help Shaw.

 

[pocco]

Rather than a push to better himself, this is the push to get him out of the club. BBC, The Telegraph etc has reported that Shaw is fed-up with Mourinho. He most likely won't play in any of our remaining games, so i can't see how Mou's comments will help Shaw.

Then who cares? We now know why it's come to this and he'll be somebody else's problem.

When I said Jose wants to see if he sinks or swim, then that reaction tells us all everything we need to know. Though i must point out that I read an article that said the complete opposite and that Shaw is determined to sort it out.

 

[#07]

I've been calling for Shaw to buck up his ideas long before today. Unlike some on here I actually hold him to high standards, instead of praising him for doing basic things like overlapping runs or doing a through ball.

Ashley Young is plain better than him, the level is so different that I'd have to question someone's intelligence otherwise. Even then I want a better left back than Young because Young falls asleep in defense because he's a refashioned winger.

The left back at this club should be good in defense and attack; that is the standard. Shaw is decent at defending and just plain horrible at attacking. When was the last time he put in a good cross, got an assist, scored a goal? For all their faults, Young is a very good crosser of the ball, and Valencia despite being a horrible crosser has got a few goals to his name this season. This is because they are in the right positions and have quality on the ball, something Shaw does not have.

Agree with all of this.

I was there on Saturday night, which meant I got to watch both Shaw and Young closely. Shaw most closely cos I was in J.

Frankly neither is a Man Utd left back. However, Shaw is lost without the ball at his feet. Doesn’t overlap, doesn’t get ahead of the ball to give the centre midfielders options, makes the pitch very tight. At least Young sometimes gambles and gives the midfielders someone to hit in space.

I was surprised when I saw the board after the game and people were praising Shaw. Must’ve looked different on TV. Yes, he rolled the ball to Matic in the build up to the first goal. However, that ignores the many times Matic looked to get him running and he was static. Despite Brighton having an extremely narrow defence. Mourinho was screaming at him (and Valencia) to exploit the space, neither wanted to.

 

[Safa Boy]

But what has he done wrong? Wasn't he performing when Young was out? If he'd shown horrendous form during those games and a shite attitude, then it would be more than understandable. However, it's been the opposite from what we can see.
For the life of me I cannot see what Mourinho wants from him that he thinks Young is providing all the time. Young has made mistakes and not been great except for the Liverpool game, yet Mourinho hasn't treated him like this.

It's all a puzzle.

I'm starting to think Jose simply has a thing for conflict. It doesn't have to make sense. As long as he gets it from somewhere, he's "happy". The problem is he ends up sabotaging himself every time. He did it at Chelsea and RM and seems well on his way to doing the same at United. The players will eventually get tired of his constant criticism or bullying of certain players and rebel against him. It might not happen with Shaw, but I suspect it will when he tries to do the same with others.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Agree with all of this.

I was there on Saturday night, which meant I got to watch both Shaw and Young closely. Shaw most closely cos I was in J.

Frankly neither is a Man Utd left back. However, Shaw is lost without the ball at his feet. Doesn’t overlap, doesn’t get ahead of the ball to give the centre midfielders options, makes the pitch very tight. At least Young sometimes gambles and gives the midfielders someone to hit in space.

I was surprised when I saw the board after the game and people were praising Shaw. Must’ve looked different on TV. Yes, he rolled the ball to Matic in the build up to the first goal. However, that ignores the many times Matic looked to get him running and he was static. Despite Brighton having an extremely narrow defence. Mourinho was screaming at him (and Valencia) to exploit the space, neither wanted to.

That's a really interesting post. Wish more people would/could offer this type of perspective.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Good fodder for the media during the international break. Talk about Shaw's feelings.

 

[JK-27]

I still find it odd that people are saying Shaw is lacking effort and overweight.

Since the beginning of the year, Jose has not publicly called in to question Shaw's training effort or weight. He has had a go at him for not following tactical instructions (and in the very same sentence said Valencia was also guilty of this) in one game. That's it. 5 weeks ago Jose publicly said:

"I know Shaw since he arrived in the Premier League with Southampton and know his potential and quality. Could he come in my direction? The way I like my players to be not just on the pitch but during the training week? And he made a big effort. He’s been free of minor injuries for a few months which sometimes stops the evolution and I’m really happy. The natural consequence of it is that he will have his contract and he will be a United player for years."

Anyone saying Shaw is not currently putting in effort in training is making that up. Until Jose or another Utd employee says Shaw has not put in any effort in training for the past 5 weeks, it is nothing but speculation. All statements about Shaw not putting in any effort in training are historical, they are not current. As of 5 weeks ago he was putting in a big effort, and Jose is the one who said this. Nobody since that date has called in to question his training effort.

 

[Loublaze]

I still find it odd that people are saying Shaw is lacking effort and overweight.

Since the beginning of the year, Jose has not publicly called in to question Shaw's training effort or weight. He has had a go at him for not following tactical instructions (and in the very same sentence said Valencia was also guilty of this) in one game. That's it. 5 weeks ago Jose publicly said:

"I know Shaw since he arrived in the Premier League with Southampton and know his potential and quality. Could he come in my direction? The way I like my players to be not just on the pitch but during the training week? And he made a big effort. He’s been free of minor injuries for a few months which sometimes stops the evolution and I’m really happy. The natural consequence of it is that he will have his contract and he will be a United player for years."

Anyone saying Shaw is not currently putting in effort in training is making that up. Until Jose or another Utd employee says Shaw has not put in any effort in training for the past 5 weeks, it is nothing but speculation. All statements about Shaw not putting in any effort in training are historical, they are not current. As of 5 weeks ago he was putting in a big effort, and Jose is the one who said this. Nobody since that date has called in to question his training effort.

Good post. I hate all the lazy outdated and rehashed criticisms people repeat over and over about certain players. Shaw is fully fit.

 

[RedSky]

Good post. I hate all the lazy outdated and rehashed criticisms people repeat over and over about certain players. Shaw is fully fit.

He's just not very good. Hasn't improved since being signed at the club which is a shame. If you haven't already you should listen to the 606 discussion last night, was interesting hearing peoples opinions on Shaw and the Ex Southampton Academy Directors (might have been Coach/Manager) opinion of him.

 

[kouroux]

But what has he done wrong? Wasn't he performing when Young was out? If he'd shown horrendous form during those games and a shite attitude, then it would be more than understandable. However, it's been the opposite from what we can see.
For the life of me I cannot see what Mourinho wants from him that he thinks Young is providing all the time. Young has made mistakes and not been great except for the Liverpool game, yet Mourinho hasn't treated him like this.

It's all a puzzle.

To us it is for sure but let's look at Shaw's career before Mourinho, he was also criticized by LVG. It is easy and convenient to blame Mourinho and probably his tough love tactics isn't suited for everyone but Shaw is not some poor victim being harassed by a mean manager. He doesn't even look fit for a pro footballer, always seems to carry extra weight. Maybe Mourinho is fed up with something not related to the football played on the pitch.
It's not like Shaw is doing incredibly well to even overshadow an average Ashley Young.

 

[villain]

Looks like mission accomplished for Jose. Half our fans are calling out Shaw and want him gone. Wonder who he does it to the next time we have a blip in form.

Should Shaw be sold? Barring a miracle over these last few games, yes. Should Jose be digging him in public? No, even if he is looking for a response as some seem to think.

Yeah only Mourinho has called out Shaw for his work rate and attitude in public.

 

[SATA]

I don't think any manager in the world would want to sign Shaw now after reading that opinion piece from the Saints academy director. Why help make our problem their problem, if you know what i mean

 

[BusbyMalone]

Clearly he's gone in the summer and can't blame him really. He had a really good period for us prior to his terrible injury but never really recovered from that. Seems to be stuck in limbo a bit at United and a move away will probably do him good.

I don't think he was particularly that awful against Brighton. Certainly not awful enough to be dragged off at half time. Jose clearly has an issue with him and has singled him out on many occasions. I can imagine that Mourinho must be a right bastard to work for if he has something against you, and Shaw seems to be taking the brunt of his ire. Best for both parties if he just moves on.

 

[Oldyella]

Yeah only Mourinho has called out Shaw for his work rate and attitude in public.

Oh I know, the problem is obviously more with Shaws head than anyone else, just the way Jose has gone about his comments in public help no one. Every time he slates him we can knock a million or two off any fee we hope to get for him.

It's also not like Jose doesn't have history here either. I just wish he would stop spouting off in the press about everything and get on with the job. All this drama has started simply because he went on a 12 minute monologue defending himself after ballsing up the CL

 

[sherrinford]

Why would it not be applicable ? Mourinho had no other choice but to play him and Shaw was average at best. He didn't play to a point it was a tough choice to bench him.
I swear if he wasn't left footed he wouldn't receive half the praise.
One of the most overrated Man Utd player, the player who gets better by not playing and delivers bland performances when playing.

Not applicable as in, I agree it’s a moot point as Shaw has hardly been forcing his way into the plans with his performances.

He still didn’t deserve to be forgotten about again. The decision to bench him shouldn’t have been as clear cut as you think seeing as the player coming back into the team wasn’t exactly Marcelo. It is fair to say he never fully took his opportunity but there were some fleeting moments where he overlapped with pace and purpose, and for that reason I think it was worth extending his run in the side - to see if he could provide the team with something it was missing. I don’t think he is more highly rated for being left footed, I think it’s just that having a natural overlapping full back down that side is desirable and Shaw is the best chance of having a player capable of that in the squad currently.

 

[villain]

Oh I know, the problem is obviously more with Shaws head than anyone else, just the way Jose has gone about his comments in public help no one. Every time he slates him we can knock a million or two off any fee we hope to get for him.

It's also not like Jose doesn't have history here either. I just wish he would stop spouting off in the press about everything and get on with the job. All this drama has started simply because he went on a 12 minute monologue defending himself after ballsing up the CL

The media asked him why he replaced Shaw at half time, he gave them a response, he just wasn't good enough.
Since then everyone has lapped up what the media has served.

Personally, I don't think Mourinho has given up on him - but at the same time Shaw needs to take accountability.
Also the game has changed - we can't let the players continue to put in performances that range from average to terrible every week and take no responsibility - everyone should feel the heat when they put on the shirt to play for us, that's what it means to play for this club.

If they don't like it they can rectify it by playing well, if they can't do that then off they go. Same with Mourinho.

 

[prath92]

How long before the ‘Young bullying shaw’ headlines?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I liked the BBC 5 live podcast where they had his old Southampton coach to talk about his issues. He mentioned that Shaw was such a physical marvel from a young age that he never had to learn proper positioning but then that's more exposed when playing at Manchester United level.

They also made an interesting point on there being no seniors left outside of Carrick who can get on Jose and tell him when to knock it off at risk of damaging a player beyond repair.

 

[SATA]

I think everyone including his teammates acknowledge Shaw to have the talent but whether he has the application to do it or not is another. Abit like Pogba too if you like

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Absolutely shocking on Sky Sports News there trying to get Ashley Young to dish the dirt on the Luke Shaw situation.

Nothing to do with Ashley or England duty.

 

[kouroux]

Not applicable as in, I agree it’s a moot point as Shaw has hardly been forcing his way into the plans with his performances.

He still didn’t deserve to be forgotten about again. The decision to bench him shouldn’t have been as clear cut as you think seeing as the player coming back into the team wasn’t exactly Marcelo. It is fair to say he never fully took his opportunity but there were some fleeting moments where he overlapped with pace and purpose, and for that reason I think it was worth extending his run in the side - to see if he could provide the team with something it was missing. I don’t think he is more highly rated for being left footed, I think it’s just that having a natural overlapping full back down that side is desirable and Shaw is the best chance of having a player capable of that in the squad currently.

Shaw overlapps but cannot cross for shit so it is not really helpful. If he could whip it in ala Marcos Alonso I'd understand wanting to play him a lot but he is average at best.

How long before the ‘Young bullying shaw’ headlines?

Not long judging by this thread

 

[clarkydaz]

Agree with all of this.

I was there on Saturday night, which meant I got to watch both Shaw and Young closely. Shaw most closely cos I was in J.

Frankly neither is a Man Utd left back. However, Shaw is lost without the ball at his feet. Doesn’t overlap, doesn’t get ahead of the ball to give the centre midfielders options, makes the pitch very tight. At least Young sometimes gambles and gives the midfielders someone to hit in space.

I was surprised when I saw the board after the game and people were praising Shaw. Must’ve looked different on TV. Yes, he rolled the ball to Matic in the build up to the first goal. However, that ignores the many times Matic looked to get him running and he was static. Despite Brighton having an extremely narrow defence. Mourinho was screaming at him (and Valencia) to exploit the space, neither wanted to.

interesting post, and goes with what jose said about taking him off

 

[SuzieQ]

Absolutely shocking on Sky Sports News there trying to get Ashley Young to dish the dirt on the Luke Shaw situation.

Nothing to do with Ashley or England duty.

Hes already being quoted on the BBC as saying he thinks shaw can be one the best, 'as long as he gets his head down and does the work'.

 

[JK-27]

I don't think any manager in the world would want to sign Shaw now after reading that opinion piece from the Saints academy director. Why help make our problem their problem, if you know what i mean

Using this kind of logic, no manager in the world should have signed KDB after he was turfed out at Chelsea for whining and training badly (by Jose no less). Klopp shouldn't have signed Salah because he couldn't cut it in the PL (again a Jose claim). Yet we now know different.

Again, it astonishes me that we have a bunch of sheep who are lapping up the 'Shaw doesn't train' mantra. Why should we pay attention to the thoughts of a man who was with Shaw 5-6 years ago, when he was a 16 year old? What about the attention from Jose 5 weeks ago, saying Shaw has put his head down and will get a new contract? Surely a quote from 5 weeks ago by our own manager is more important than the point of view of someone who hasn't seen Shaw for over 4 years?

Too many people on here have fallen for the media's false stories.

 

[el3mel]

Using this kind of logic, no manager in the world should have signed KDB after he was turfed out at Chelsea for whining and training badly (by Jose no less). Klopp shouldn't have signed Salah because he couldn't cut it in the PL (again a Jose claim). Yet we now know different.

Again, it astonishes me that we have a bunch of sheep who are lapping up the 'Shaw doesn't train' mantra. Why should we pay attention to the thoughts of a man who was with Shaw 5-6 years ago, when he was a 16 year old? What about the attention from Jose 5 weeks ago, saying Shaw has put his head down and will get a new contract? Surely a quote from 5 weeks ago by our own manager is more important than the point of view of someone who hasn't seen Shaw for over 4 years?

Too many people on here have fallen for the media's false stories.

These comments aren't coming from Jose though. They're coming from a Southampton academy director, who has zero reasons to go and talk about Shaw mentality like this. In fact you would have expecting one of the academy directors of the club Shaw emerged from would have defended more than anyone but he came on and said the trust.

The astonishing thing is him getting defended regarding this after almost everyone that worked with him talked about either his mentality or fitness as a clear, but instead directing it towards Mourinho. Ok, feck Mourinho, but what about all the rest ? Are all of them have an agenda against Shaw ? for what ?