Heh, dropping points in a few games really brings out the worst of him. That smug face of his as well while he's destroying him...
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Heh, dropping points in a few games really brings out the worst of him. That smug face of his as well while he's destroying him...
Over the moon that someone got the reference to be honest.
I think someone brought this movie up back when LVG was freezing out Rafael.
Assuming you're talking about his broken leg, how can extra training have anything to do with that?
By redacted I meant Raymond Verheijen. I jokingly called him redacted since he is a controversial figure on here.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...e-shaws-injury-says-former-wales-9671984.html
And how does extra training enchance the likelihood of a player breaking his leg?
And by the way, it's not extra training but different training.
Ach. Nothing new under the sun I guess
I am talking about his injuries during his first season. Not the leg break during the second season.
That might be true but that doesn't take anything away from him being unfit compared to his team mates.
Strange. Luke Shaw was the best LB in the Prem on here last season.
Mourinhos a dour cnut when he is not winning. Winning makes him barely accpetable. Yet to see a full scale metldown though, I'm predicting there will be one by the end of the season.
He played about 4 games last season.
Was pleasantly surprised when I saw him come on.. thinking, this kid will have to show something.
Receives the ball in huge amounts of space. Attacks the space!
Put in a truly pitiful cross. I couldn't help but laugh.
He did well to win us the penalty and hope he gets more chances to impress. Still think he'll be some player.
Receives the ball in huge amounts of space. Attacks the space!
Put in a truly pitiful cross. I couldn't help but laugh.
He did well to win us the penalty and hope he gets more chances to impress. Still think he'll be some player.
I don't think he'll make it at United.
Poor crossing, but besides that decent performance and created the penalty chance which led to the goal. Jose just blames everyone besides himself. I'm sure somehow Rashford, Pogba, Shaw, Martial, Kevin de Bryne, Lukakku, and Rashford are at fault for not performing under Mourinho, despite being excellent under other managers. Mourinho is terrible man manager; it's been documented. He's rash in judging players and if you don't do what he wants you are out. Shocking than a person in management doesn't understand how to deal with different personalities. Shaw entered the game made a great run and got his cross blocked. Mourinho decides to intervene and clearly tell him not to make those runs and instead bomb diagonal crosses, when we all know Luke Shaw is quite poor at crossing. Basic stuff, but hey Jose Mourinho has won a ton of stuff in the past so he must know what he's doing right? It's not like he's been fired a ton of times or anything. Love when our club goes backwards...
It was 5 league games. I remember because I kept telling everyone that when they said that he was the best LB in the league.
I think Mourinho is just covering his tracks here. The thing I've noticed about Jose is the one thing he puts above everything is how he is perceived. Yes, he criticised Luke Shaw and the fella basically came on and changed the game.. but let's not forget that it was actually Jose who changed the game. He was there.. barking away.. controlling Shaw's every move.
What a load of nonsense. Managers manage teams and tell players what to do. That's basic - Jose shouldn't be getting adulation for this. If Shaw (aided by Mourinho's seemingly endless wisdom) can change the game at left back.. then why hasn't he been starting him? That's the real question which will be avoided.
You're struggling to understand what Mourinho said, ain't you? He said if Shaw was playing on the other side of the pitch, for example first half, far away from the technical area, then Shaw would be lost since Shaw doesn't hold his own. There that's why he's not starting.
It's not about Shaw taking initial instruction before being subbed on and stick to it and helped. It's about Shaw needed further instructions when already being on the field that's the problem. That's why Shaw was not getting much game time. How can you play if you fail to follow game plan? Would you call that individual performance when one needs somebody else to tell him what to do?
Shaw would not get subbed on if it was not for Young's injury. Martial was about to get on the pitch along with Mikhitaryan.
Edit: Last but not least, Shaw made an impact with that shot & few defending play, but he hardly changed the game. If anything there was some aspect of the game he was an downgrade from Young. Not stretching the play, attacking the space enough...
Thought it was a decent cameo tbh, solid in defense, his delivery very poor though but the pen came out of his move so he deserves some credit.
Jose should've kept quiet and let him get on with his job. He's acting like shaw is some academy product who needed his endless genius guidance. He is forgetting that we signed him for loads of money cause he can do the job. He was in the league team of the year as a teen. All this football brain malarky is rubbish and needs to stop if we're to see the best of him here which i doubt will be the case. Reckon Shaw will be praying spurs sell Rose as he'd probably be first on their wishlist given whats happened. As for those claiming he was never that good to begin with, isn't it the same bunch that lauded his every step before the injury? We know he has the quality, Jose might not think so but its ridiculously obvious. In fairness, this is the same manager that put Felipe Luis, who is one of the premier left backs in world football to accommodate Ivanovic in his team. Jose has really lost the plot and needs to find it soon enough or he'll be gone in a couple of seasons.
I agree. People say he uses the media to deflect pressure off players with talk about referee decisions and so on, that he "challenges" them with constant criticism in the media and so on, but to me it always looked like he is trying to take pressure off himself, either blaming referees, the backroom staff or recruiters, the pitch, schedule, whatever. He is all about perception like you said. From what I can see, he is laying groundwork to avoid fan backlash when Shaw eventually asks to leave in the summer.
He has done this at Chelsea too. He makes up his mind about players and has his favorites. Players he doesn't like don't get dropped right from the start, but he waits for the first mistake. This happened with David Luiz, who was dropped in his first year, after he had one bad game, while players like Cahill and Ivanovic have gotten extended runs during periods of bad form. Same thing happen to Shaw after the Watford game. One mistake and he was out. That was the excuse he was looking for. Eventually everyone has a bad game and gives you that excuse. Mata was another fan favorite and he made sure to leak to the press early on how he didn't "track back". Most Chelsea forums were just like this. We backed the manager. We repeated his arguments. "Oh! He doesn't track back", "He isn't capable of defending and doesn't suit Mourinho's system".
It's all about perception. That's also why he has guys like Duncan Castles. The blame assignment game.
Know you are a Chelski fan. Know Conte has done an excellent job this year. Mou probably effed up last year. But to say he is covering his tracks is not really right. Because obviously he knows he has full control over the team and the owners, unlike Ambromovich, will back him in full for the next couple of years at least. We fans only see the surface. There are too many reports suggesting Shaw has attitude issues and Mou is clearly trying to motivate him. He is playing at United so he should prove he belongs, no matter what sum he was bought at. I do concur that Mou may be too harsh in the media on Shaw but maybe he has tried everything else.
Every manager has favourites. Mou clearly trusts the warriors rather than talented but flighty players. Deflection or not Mou is clearly under a lot of pressure and it would be an embarrassment if we do not finish top 4, he knows this. Shaw at this point is a part of the problem and needs to convince the manager otherwise.
Well that's bollocks because Shaw was actually quite shite.
'Changed the game'. What? Because he had a mis hit shot? BT Sport have a lot to answer for.
You lot are a bunch of drama queens - and hat he said wasnt that bad.
Fwiw, he (slightly) criticised Shaw post match for not closing down a winger and it resulting in a goal. His brother took to social media to rant about it (Shaw retweeted it or something else relating to the situation, iirc) and there were leaks to the press. Thats when Jose to dropped him.
Also there's a whole thread to slag off Mourinho's treatment of Shaw here
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mou...armian-and-blind.427797/page-23#post-20682620
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mou...armian-and-blind.427797/page-23#post-20682620
I thought that was a decent little cameo, he looked under cooked after barely playing for months, but that can always be an issue in Mourinho teams, he has his favourites who will normally always play leaving others with little game time. Lets just hope he makes the bench/team next match too, deserves too after last night.
If Mourinho can positively coach him through half an hour on the pitch, what has the Mouron been doing in training?
I feel he was hoping Shaw would crumble and vindicate his brutal treatment of him, and resorted to personally taking the credit for a decent effort from Luke.
Mourinho hasn't aged well, neither physically or as a coach. The likes of Conte and Pocchettino, with their intense humility, desire to develop individuals and perfect balance between defensive solidarity and a destructive attack.
Exactly; even the excessively maligned LVG got the best out of Rashford, Martial and pre-injury Shaw. Lingard eluded to the more youth-friendly environment last week. Those three offer United more over the next decade than Jose.
Evaluating that, there's a good chance even Pogba would be performing better under Louise than the Portuguese bore.
I feel he was hoping Shaw would crumble and vindicate his brutal treatment of him, and resorted to personally taking the credit for a decent effort from Luke.
Mourinho hasn't aged well, neither physically or as a coach. The likes of Conte and Pocchettino, with their intense humility, desire to develop individuals and perfect balance between defensive solidarity and a destructive attack.
Exactly; even the excessively maligned LVG got the best out of Rashford, Martial and pre-injury Shaw. Lingard eluded to the more youth-friendly environment last week. Those three offer United more over the next decade than Jose.
Evaluating that, there's a good chance even Pogba would be performing better under Louise than the Portuguese bore.
Shaw was playing consistent EPL football at 18, way before he had José telling when to run. Don't fall for Mourinho's nonsense.
Well that's bollocks because Shaw was actually quite shite.
'Changed the game'. What? Because he had a mis hit shot? BT Sport have a lot to answer for.
You are as bad as BT Sport. He wasnt great nor was he "quite shite"
Rather than repeat myself, I posted this earlier
Tell me I'm wrong.
Edit- And actually it was in response to Purist saying Jose wanted credit for Shaws "good" performance.
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I can't understand the constant defending of some of the players for everything and anything when they haven't warranted said defense, and I'm seeing a lot of references to 'chucking people under the bus' or 'destroying him'. Certainly seems like players used to be able to actually take criticism (constructive or negative) without it being an issue, not anymore I guess.
I disagree with the notion it's completely the fault of Shaw or Mourinho, as I believe the issue lies in between. Shaw hasn't helped himself if it's true about his application, focus and fitness, but the fact he went and spoke to Jose shows he must care to an extent, and some of the quotes Jose has said about him last night were strange but I try not to read too much into what managers say after a game as the emotion is high. I will wait until Sunday to see what happens as I believe he should get a run out, and I hope he makes a success of his chance here, but if not I trust Jose to recruit the correct player in his stead.
Good post.
Mourinho's comments after the game were bizarre but he often says bizarre shit. There's bags of evidence that Shaw has issues with discipline and application. If a public kick up the arse is what Mourinho thinks he needs then so be it. As @duffer said yesterday, he used the same tactics with Joe Cole and that was the making of him.
The fact that they've had a face to face and Shaw ended up back in the squad as a result is a positive IMO. He did ok when he came on. Nothing exceptional but ok. Hopefully onwards and upwards from here.
He did well last night when he came on, no reason whatsoever for him not to play 90mins at Sunderland on the weekend.
Thanks Pogue.
That's true that he does, another reason I try not to read too much into what he says
Think far too much is made of what managers say anyway. Exactly, there are many posts stating Jose has done badly by going public but if he has tried everything else this could be what he needs to jump start is United career. I agree that the meeting between the two is certainly a positive and think that could have impressed Jose tbh. And he was okay too last night, thought he defended well in some parts with some good blocks and stuff, but not great going forward but a decent cameo. Hopefully it goes well from this point, and as mentioned previously I would like to see him start Sunday.
Yes because having a decent season in a bang average Southampton side is the same as being a starter for Manchester United. That's not even getting into the fact that he's barely played football in 3 years due to fitness concerns or injuries.
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The quality of Southampton and his injuries are irrelevant in this particular discussion. If you want to talk about fitness or handling pressure then yeah bring those things up.
The charge here is that he doesn't understand how to play football. How then was he playing consistently as a defender in the EPL at 18 and getting plenty of plaudits. That's very rare.
How? It's actually very common for young players to burst onto the scene, only to struggle for a few years. Being able to play for Southampton at a young age is a completely different ball game to possessing the required ability and maturity to play for United. They have the freedom to give players who aren't ready chances, we don't. As I said, that's not even taking into consideration the fact that he's stagnated as a footballer for years now, if anything he's regressed.
He didn't burst onto the scene and then struggle. He had pretty much two full seasons of consistently good performances as an 18 year old defender.
You can't do that if you don't have an understanding of the game.
Before Mourinho's comments last night did you ever complain about Shaw's brain, his ability to understand the game?
Aside from those 6 weeks before injury against PSV, he hasn't really been playing that well for us. He was fine but nothing special in his first season and has been rather average since the injury. Those 6 weeks before PSV, he looked like our best player and potentially ready to make a step up to borderline world class level soon.
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