Yet discounting the last season, Nani has more league starts than Valencia, more goals, more assists
Luis Nani | 2013/14 Performances
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Yet discounting the last season, Nani has more league starts than Valencia, more goals, more assists
Nor have any of the other wingers and not-really-wingers you mention.
This is a terrible, terrible post. What did you want us to do, only have one winger?
Yeah. But nobody makes absurd claims as to their talent or importance to the club. Young is apparently shit and Valencia had one bad season so he's evidently far inferior to someone who was very good for 18 months. Not that anyone says Nani was good for 18 months, apart from all the times they've said it. But that's just a technicality of speech I presume.
The sober opinion is none of our wingers are that impressive. Valencia has been the more solid at his time at the club, Young hasn't impressed at all and like it or not Nani too is in the same boat as the other two. If this was that then that's fine. But instead it's suggested that Nani is put on a pedestal above the other two. For many of us, he isn't. And the frustration doesn't come because we think Valencia and Young are better but because we don't think Nani deserves the praise he gets for being (as far as I'm concerned) pretty much of a muchness with the rest of them.
When people put him on a pedestal then pointing out his contract situation, rumoured transfer fees bid, games played, position at the club and the number of players we've signed and adapted into his position just to find an alternative to this player who apparently so far superior to the others - I think is entirely fair game.
Well I'll give you Valencia. But if Nani was over and above what other options we have/had how does this explain the signing of Young? How does it explain using Rooney, Park, Welbeck and (recently) Giggs in the vacuum he should occupy. Young was signed as competition for Nani. Valencia til that point had done nothing wrong and had been very solid and had a couple of good seasons. Young was there for competition for him. And where did/do the likes of Rooney, Kagawa, Park, Welbeck play when pushed out wide? On the left. Where Nani would usually play if fit. As generally when he's been fit Valencia has occupied the space on the right. Either because he's considered the better option or he has only one good foot. Whatever it is, he has been by and large the right-winger and options have been shuffled on the left.
It's not saying any of them are better than Nani. But it is saying Nani obviously isn't the obviously superior option. The difference being it's fine to rag on Young, call Park shit, Giggs passed it, Rooney fat and Valencia predictable. But Nani still has to be considered the superior option. I just don't know what that's based on anymore.
Based on last season that's about right, yes. I think you're exaggerating, though. The most common claim on here is simply that Nani is our best winger, i.e. our most talented one, the player with the highest potential among our current options, etc. That isn't an absurd claim, in my opinion.
I really don't know what you're talking about.
He's played 62 league games over the 10/11 and 11/12 seasons. That's very good by anyone's standards
He's played 62 league games over the 10/11 and 11/12 seasons. That's very good by anyone's standards
It's quite simple, we brought in Young because we only had two actual wingers, Nani and Valencia, and at least one of whom have suffered injuries in every season we've had both of them. Factor in their age, why on earth would we not be looking in to get cover, especially someone like Young who provides decent squad cover, rather than being someone who would outright displace either of them. I posted this about a year ago when we were after Lucas, it still applies, which is why I feel we brought Zaha:
Also yes, lots of times players have been forced to go out left....So what? Most of the times Welbeck or Park went out there was down to Nani being injured or not fully fit, unless you're arguing the point that Welbeck or Park were better performers on the left, or were picked ahead of Nani as a winger, which they weren't, I don't see your point. This season I believe the contract also played into why he was dropped many times, as the start of the season showed.
It is also a little ridiculous to still use the word 'potential' as you have any many others continue to do when they talk about him. This is my theory with Nani; people are holding onto this hope of a 20 year old wiry young promise and not yet come to terms with the fact he's 27 and should really have blossomed into an undroppable star of club and country for the last four or five years. The fact we haven't had these four or five years at least at club level is another reason why I'm a bit jaded with him.
He had potential when he was 20. His problem is seven years later, he's still got it.
EDIT: This is what makes a lot of people judge Nani more favourably than others. Potential. Not what he's done or doing but on this dream idea as to what he can do. Nobody thinks Young can take on 4 players and backflip it in the box, so nobody give a toss about him. Nani could though. He hasn't but...'could'. He still has the 'potential'
On the flip side, it's also what makes people judge him far more harshly than other wingers too. Works both ways.
Substitute "potential" for "best when on form", then, if you like. I don't mean to imply he should still be regarded as a promising youngster.
This was a quote from The Equalizer in the Rooney thread, it doesn't bode well for Nani.
Who the feck is the equaliser and why do we care what he thinks???This was a quote from The Equalizer in the Rooney thread, it doesn't bode well for Nani.
I would absolutely love nani fulfilling his potential in the coming season if he should stay. Would be brilliant. If he leaves which seems most likely we need to sign someone with similar natural ability. Bayern have ribery and robben, barca have messi iniesta and Neymar, we could do with that one player who will frighten defenders with their dribbling. And Zaha is too young.
Ed Woodward, the guy now doing Gill's job.
He calls himself the equaliser ?
No, The Equalizer was a popular 80's TV show starring Edward Woodward, maybe I'm dating myself.
If the quote is true, it may mean that management is perfectly happy letting Nani run down his contract, in exchange for half a year or a year of Moyes working with him and making his mind up later, instead of committing to a player that Moyes might deem not up to snuff.
Have you not seen all the posts regarding his form in 10/11 and 11/12, something like 45 goals and assists in just the league in those two seasons, that is top quality productivity and that was right when he was at the age/time to adapt to england to start performing and he did. This season just gone was so stop start it's hard to judge him properly, his worst games were no worse than Valencia was allowed to get away with over the whole season imo, for whatever reason, and he still produced favorably compared to the other wingers who got more game time. He's already shown he can deliver on his potential and one injury hit with so admittedly poor performances doesn't change that.
Nani on top form is still a level below all those players you've mentioned though.
The best solution for most would be for us to keep him to squeeze out everything we can (which I agree with), but at the same time he's not in that high bracket.
As a genuine winger, Ribery sets the standard and his numbers at Bayern are insane. Probably the most complete winger.
I know a lot thought we had the greatest winger ever when Nani had 9 months of glory in 2011 minus the blip towards the end of the 10/11 season, but I don't buy it. Robben and Ribery on pure ability have just always been a level above.
It's fine having the opinion of Nani that he's proven himself but surely it makes his current situation positively head-scratching. Not only should we be throwing money at the fella to get him to renew but Europe's elite should be throwing money at him to get him not to and to join them. As far as we can tell, neither of these things are happening so surely that alone calls into question his status as a top, proven, international-class player.
If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck - chances are it isn't a swan.
Personally I think you can put a cigarette paper between the three of them. Valencia is more reliable and consistent but struggles to adapt his game as and when it requires. Nani has flair but often looks as if he's playing with two left feet and both of them falsies and Young is this unhappy medium between both of them. Not quite as good at flair as Nani, not quite as good at the basics as Valencia.
We've got Jack Spratt, his wife and their daughter who quite likes doing the washing up. Only last season they all decided to go vegetarian and buy a dish washer and it fecked everything about.
I think there is no doubt that Ferguson and Nani didn't always see eye to eye. Perhaps a totally fresh management team will create a fresh new challenge to Nani. On his day he's one of our most creative players and as the position stands at the moment, there is no way I want him sold this summer...
Nani on top form (2010-2012) is as good as Robben. Just look at matches against Bayern and then the next two seasons when he made all those goals and assists. He's one of the best wingers in the world if he can return to that form.
Some fine revision of Nani going on here. On top form, he is one of the very best wingers in the world.
But still not as good as Ribery or Robben in top form, which was my only real point. Great winger on form, yes. Would be grand if we didn't have to go back two years to see that player.
Not as good as Ribery I agree. I think that on top form he's easily as good as Robben.
In between January 2010 and the end of 2011, he was easily as good as Ribery or Robben, if not better for some of that time. Ribery at his best is better though I agree, but it's not a huge gap. A shame how quickly some people forgot how Nani carried us at times in those 2 years.
On top form, he is as good as Robben on top form? or as good as normal Robben?
As good as top Robben.
I hope the lad stays, steers clear of injuries, works hard, gets his chance and enjoys his football. A Nani in hand is worth two in the bush
Good Robben.
If Robben wasn't made of glass he'd be right behind Messi Ronaldo and Iniesta. If Nani wasn't made of glass he'd probably be where Ribery is, consistency in playing every week obviously makes a difference.
The fact we've only seen an 18 month spell of Nani in outstanding form is what forms my opinion. Ribery has been unreal since he moved to Bayern, and Robben despite breaking down every 4 or 5 months is still very productive.
I'd say as good as Robben's ever been in a 2 year period. Like others have said, Robben at his best if he wasn't injury prone would be at the very top, but that isn't the case and never was.
The best we've seen of him is definitely as good as robben. Probably not as good as ribery who is a step ahead of the rest.
However my point was more about natural ability. If nani were to stay and fulfill his potential he should be better than anything we've seen from him. And more importantly, I was on about what those plays bring to their teams. Every top team needs that one player who is brilliant with the ball at feet.
You're overrating robben. He is explosive, but his football brain is nowhere near someone like ribery. That's why ribery out performs him. Not injuries.
Productivity wise, the Bayern pair have been unbelievable. Nani isn't a million miles away, but I genuinely believe as those stats suggests that he's bang on in-between being a 'decent' player and a 'world class' player.Hectic said:
Just me, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Valencia - 240 games (35 subs) - 74 goals or assists - 3.2 games to score/assist
Nani - 267 games (67 subs) - 118 goals or assists - 2.2 games to score/assist
Ribery - 294 games (37 subs) - 176 goals or assists - 1.6 games to score/assist
Robben - 221 games (46 subs) - 139 goals or assists - 1.5 games to score/assist
Nani - 267 games (67 subs) - 118 goals or assists - 2.2 games to score/assist
Ribery - 294 games (37 subs) - 176 goals or assists - 1.6 games to score/assist
Robben - 221 games (46 subs) - 139 goals or assists - 1.5 games to score/assist
Well it doesn't always quite work like that. Who apart from City and ourselves was throwing money at RVP? Was he/ Is he not a top striker. Bayern already have two great wingers, Barca don't use them that much but had Pedro and Sanchez, Real Di maria and Ronaldo. We don't really know what the interest has been, but we've heard rumours about Juve which are pretty damn big.
As for the comparisons with Robben and Riberey in fairness these are the two top wingers after Ronaldo, plus you also have to consider that both of them typically have a lot more attacking freedom than any of our wingers have. But either way the stats stack up, and if you factor in that 07-09 Nani was young and adapting to a new league it's all the more impressive.
Hold on, someone quoted a post that hadn't yet been posted
I'd like him to stay personanlly, but I can see both sides of the argument to some extent. He offers us that something a litle bit different, and something that no-one else in the squad really offers. On his dasy he is a quality player, and if he can find the form and consistency he was at a couple of years ago, we have a quality player.
I think that a fresh start will do him good, and hopefully he can kick on next season.
I think that a fresh start will do him good, and hopefully he can kick on next season.
Hold on, someone quoted a post that hadn't yet been posted
You bitches will get taken down by me and my exceptional quoting-before-actually-posting ability.
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