Quite a lot...more than the other two wingers at the club (that we aren't supposed to mention in this threadt despite them being his direct competition for gametime).
Luis Nani | 2013/14 Performances
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When was Rooney dropped first time round? As I recall, he was out injured for quite a few months at the time. Also, he handed in a transfer request, that was public knowledge before SAF even confirmed it, we've heard nothing like that regarding Nani. The worst thing though is his ambitions comment, which was stupid and completely unwarranted.
I know Valencia has no bollocks and Young is an injury prone shitc**t, but this about Nani. I'd get rid of all 3 if I'm being honest.....
That's when I knew it was the truth.
Your memory is foggy. He was dropped for the West Brom game during which the crowd kept chanting his name. It's this(fans not supporting the team) that triggered Fergie going public with the contract situation. Prior to that Rooney made no public announcement, or comment regarding his future, and he certainly didn't publicly request a transfer, whatever the press may have speculated. You 'knew' about it the same way you now know that Fabregas is coming to united.
So for all we know, this salient difference that you keep mentioning, could be and most likely is purely circumstantial, rather than something to do with character or attitude.
This really the laziest statement to make about any player, which ever club they play for.
We did alright without RvN, was he shit too? We seem to have done alright without Ronaldo, must be shit too, right?
Oh come on, it's a team game when he's playing he contributes, when he's not he doesn't. There are plenty of players we could do without, but where does that leave the squad?
I meant in terms of his time at the club. He's missed a lot of match time despite being here for 5/6 years. And we have managed ok
How is that more sensible? You're simply hoping we would sign someone as good as him, which is hard enough, but also hoping he would be more consistent. That's just hoping for the best case scenario. I can't really see how that is sensible.
It's not, but then people tend not to go mental over players playing hardball because that's a part of the game. The difference is in how they've gone about doing it, Nani hasn't signed a new contract, and we know next to nothing from his point of view about why. Rooney on the other hand came out and questioned the ambition of the club, which is completely retarded. Your reasons for 'expecting' it more from Rooney are silly. So you're saying it's alright for Rooney to do what he did because he knows he is important to the team? What? That makes it even worse.
Right, so it doesn't matter if a story is true or not, it simply matters that "it is a story". Okay then.
Going by his inconsistency based on a season where he barely featured and was injured for long spells throughout it? Why not go on more than just last season which was obviously his most ineffective? By that logic, do you think we should be selling Valencia, who had about double the games and looked twice as shite? Of course not.
But you don't think we would have managed better had he been fit all season?
Do you not think that if he hadn't been ridiculously sent of against Real Madrid, we were looking to win that match? Which would have given us a pretty clear run to the Semis at least? And when he was injured against Chavs, was he not one out best players up to that point?
For Rooney to play hardball wouldn't be terminal. Rio and Keane did it and I'm pretty sure it was forgotten about very quickly. What isn't forgotten is the manner in which Rooney went about it (and continues to go about it).
Unsure about the Petrucci incident, but I've certainly never heard of him being fined etc, or seen any quotes where he's questioned United (see Suarez for instance). I don't feel we "need" Nani either, I just don't understand the logic behind selling him for a pittance. Most people would agree that at his best he is comfortably our best winger and objectively most would concede that given consistent game time, usually produces consistently.
As I said we can only go on what most sources have quoted - which is that he wants a pay rise of around £30,000, up to around £100,000 per week and if he can't get this at United will get it elsewhere. Most fans don't think that sum is unreasonable and as I said it's almost certainly a net saving. Also it's worth bearing in mind no other top club is likely to offer him a ridiculous wage because of his lack of appearances/form lately, so it would be naive to assume he was requesting an absurd (£140k+) wage. Juventus for instance have a salary bill less than Arsenal's, so even if he made their top salary bracket he would earn around £100,000 (and with their Country's tax he'd be ending up with much less). Likewise if Nani were to be believed he doesn't want to play for a 2nd rate team because he feels his performances are above that, so that rules out Monaco (obviously money talks though).
All in all the reason for Rooney's bad press is because his actions (obviously) make people think that he has acted unreasonable. Whereas Nani the opposite, a lot of people think what has been reported shines him in a neutral or positive light.
Again it depends on whether you believe the reports or whether you feel Nani is being unreasonable. This could well be the final big contract of Nani's career and he probably thinks that the last time he consistently played he was named player of the year and for those 2 seasons was one of our best performers. If he feels that the club is not offering "market value" even after this he is entitled to go and attain this elsewhere.
My personal opinion is that if reports are true and he is asking for what I would consider a fair wage (< £120,000) he is quite within his rights to get this wage elsewhere if not here. Hell every player will know almost exactly what the other player's are earning and if some of the reported wages are true even as a United fan I'd be questioning things if I was Nani.
It's always ifs and buts with Nani though - that's why I wouldn't be gutted if he did leave.
I'm not denying he can be devasting on his day - what I am saying we don't see 'his day' often enough.
I'm not denying he can be devasting on his day - what I am saying we don't see 'his day' often enough.
I wouldn't shed a tear if this happened. I like Nani but he's had a hell of a lot of niggling injuries over the years. Somebody is getting a lot of quality for £8m if he's going for that.
Do we know that the 8 mill figure is real? Is it really our official asking price? If so, that is strange - regardless of...anything, really. Surely we could get more than that - in theory we could sell Nani to another PL club, and given the amounts thrown about in England eight mill seems ludicrously low.
His reputation isn't stellar and he's certainly not on the market following a great season - but still. Look at the figures involved in some recent transfers. An asking price of eight mill is practically saying: Just take him, we don't care - we just want the fecker gone. And that makes no sense.
His reputation isn't stellar and he's certainly not on the market following a great season - but still. Look at the figures involved in some recent transfers. An asking price of eight mill is practically saying: Just take him, we don't care - we just want the fecker gone. And that makes no sense.
I'm one of those who can see both sides of the argument. On his day he is a quality player. He has all the ability in the world, and he has the ability to create something out of nothing. Doesn't matter how much space he has, he is capable of making things happen and when he is in that sort of form, he can be practically unstoppable at times and he has proven that. Unfortunantly those days are few and far between, and that's the key.
Players like Nani, who have such high skill levels, rely heavily on confidence. I think a fresh start at United will do him the world of good and as I say, when his confidence is high he can be a match winner for us. Under David Moyes and a new coaching staff I think he deserves an opportunity.
Players like Nani, who have such high skill levels, rely heavily on confidence. I think a fresh start at United will do him the world of good and as I say, when his confidence is high he can be a match winner for us. Under David Moyes and a new coaching staff I think he deserves an opportunity.
I never said he publicly requested one, I said it was pretty much known he had requested one within the club, which SAF then confirmed. Whatever way you look at it, he did request one, he did question the clubs ambition (which turned out to be a ploy to get more money), and two years later, he's doing the exact same fecking thing all over again. Rooney was barely dropped from the team at all, he was mostly injured, and when fully fit he played 95% of matches, a far cry from what you'll say about Nani. Obviously Nani isn't deemed as important a player to the club as Rooney was back then, but from a personal viewpoint I'm sure it still pisses him off to be so far behind Young and a horribly out of form Valencia in the pecking order.
To compare Rooney and Nani is crazy, right now anyway, because everything to do with Nani's situation is pure speculation, nobody knows anything, yet on the Caf people seem to be fabricating a load of their own stuff in order to justify both sides of the stay/go argument. it could turn out that the whole thing is Nani's fault, wanting more money, throwing tantrums, whatever, and if that's the case, feck him and good riddance, but until that's proven, I'm not throwing him in the same boat as Rooney.
It wasn't known. The rumor mill was coming up with all sorts of shit at the time. That he's bound for City, that he is requesting 240k a week, 140 a week. The common denominator was that he wanted out, but it wasn't 'known' any more than any of the other stuff that is widely reported now. It became apparent only after Fergie made it official.
In any case even if it were known, and not a historian's fallacy like I think it is, that's through no fault of Wayne Rooney.
Nani has not yet been in this situation(contract talks publicly exposed by the manager) which is why it seems strange to me to think of it as some sort compliment to his conduct. As I've said, in all likelihood it's simply circumstantial.
I'm not really calling it a compliment though, am I? I'm saying it's unfair to compare his situation to Rooney's, when so far the whole thing is purely speculation regarding Nani, where as we know the facts now regarding Rooney. In fact from your last paragraph, it's sort of implying you agree with my original post.
No, I very much disagree on what seems to be your main premise, which is that the two are incomparable. The fact that a lot of it is speculation in both cases doesn't change that.
They both wanted/still want a better contract, and there was a mismatch in the club's evaluation of what that contract should be. I don't think you need much more than that to do the standard compare, contrast, speculate bollocks on a forum. Their situations can't be identical, otherwise you wouldn't be comparing it the first place.
Your only argument for why you think this is 'apples and dinosaurs' seems to be that Rooney's contract saga briefly went public. I just think that's not as relevant as made out to be. The whole 'questioning of club's ambitions' talk was overemphasized to begin with. Now it's hackneyed as well.
We know some of what happened, but we certainly don't know everything. We don't even know Rooney's wage for starters.
These are the statements I really don't understand.
I've said it before, if you break down Nani's time at us it is:
07/08 - 09/10: 3 seasons of a young player finding his feet in another Country. Clear Improvement every year.
10/11 - Jan 2012: Said player takes the step up everyone was looking for, establishes himself consistently as one of the squads best players.
End of 2012 season: 4 league starts in 13 games after serious injury (1 goal) - inconsistent performances when played inconsistently after injury.
12/13: 6 League starts all season - inconsistent performances when played inconsistently
Basically, since he has realised his potential he's been the best winger in the league whenever he has played consistently (a season and a half).
We don't know his current wage, we don't know his previous wage. We don't know his wage demands(or if there were any), we don't know if he had other offers, perhaps most importanly we don't know his attitude in training. You can still speculate(as we do ), and make 'assessments', but it's no different to Nani. It's still just a tip of the iceberg, however marginally more we know about it.
From the perspective of the management, these perceived differences that we as fans cling to so fervently, I'm sure are trivial.
So he hasn't been consistent then has he.
The annoying thing about Nani for me is that he is capable of so much. On his day he is a quality player and a genuine match winner, but for whatever reason, those days don't happen often enough. Like I said though, I think a fresh start under David Moyes and a new coaching team will do him the world of good, and it's up to him to kick on now. If he does, then we have a quality player at our disposal.
Like I've said, I don't think that makes a blind bit of difference to the management.
And he didn't submit a request, he said he wouldn't be signing a new contract. It would be a distinction without a difference, but since we have so little to go on, might as well get the details right.
I mentioned it earlier but from 10/11 to 11/12 he got 45 goals and assists in just the league, you don't fluke that. For two seasons, and lets not forget as you mentioned a fair bit off 11/12 he was injured, he was hugely productive. This season we all know he's been poor at times, but he did pretty well in some games and in fairness I honestly don't think he's had anywhere near as many poor games in the last two seasons if not more than Valencia has put in. I don't know what wage he's asking for, and I'd agree with anyone who says that due to this season he shouldn't get a wage rise of note, but at the same time as I've said before I can't see how we could really get someone who can be as good as he can for anywhere near what we're reportedly selling him for, even with a wage bump.
He was very consistent between February 2010 and around February 2012, and in that time he was easily the best winger in the premier league, and among the best in Europe. His first few years were always going to be inconsistent as he was a young winger adjusting to a new league and it looked like he wouldn't improve in the first half of 09/10 but he stepped it up in the second half immensely. Since 2012 though, he's had lots of injury problems and never had a chance to get a good run in the first team. He's a had plenty of good games, but plenty of bad games too, but that is to be expected when he is in and out of the first team like that. You can't say that Nani has ever played himself out of the team since 2010 when he first started to hit form. In the last year and a half he's had below par seasons, but it was hardly down to him. He was always on the bench when a dreadful Valencia kept starting ahead of him all the time this season, and he would only get a few games here or there. Sir Alex just seemed like he never really trusted him, or liked him because it is clear as day that on form, when he gets a run of games, he is by far our best winger.
The worst thing is, is the prices that are being quoted for him. Galatasaray offering 5 million but we want 8? That's absolutely ridiculous for a player of his quality, when he can be a 30 million player once he gets a run of games, and there isn't winger that we could get that would be better then him without spending over 40 million for. Really hope Moyes coming in will revitalize him and convince him to stay, because he's shown many times how good he is and how important he can become for us.
That or Red cafe overrates him compared to SAF and the boys at the back. Although I will say 5 million is a piss take, and I would value him between 15 and 20 million in todays market.
I didn't say for certain it was sensible. I actually asked the question whether it was more sensible. We won't know for certain unless that situation happens. But why wait and hope Nani finds some needed-consistency when we could just try with someone new? Like Zaha. We've given Nani 5/6 years - and he's still unreliable. We don't know which Nani we're going to see every game. That's why I brought up the question.
Just because "its part of the game" doesn't necessarily mean I should just embrace it. Diving seems to just be "part of the game" these days, and I'm sure you go mental over that like a normal football fan.
As I said before, I'm not going to sugar-coat Rooney's stupidity in 2010. One thing I will say is that I believe he was blindfolded and lead on by his agent.
A story is what finneh was looking for, and that's a story I gave him. It was covered by a few people so it could very well be true. No point going into that though as it seems long forgotten.
I merely used this season as an example. If you'd like I'll take into account the majority of his seasons with us - mmmm, yep, inconsistency. I don't know about you - but I never had full faith in Nani going into games. Pessimistic? Maybe. I had faith in other players around him, but I just couldn't trust him.
Valencia has not been inconsistent throughout his career at United. In his first season he was phenomenal - Rooney practically fell in love with him considering the amount of perfect crosses Valencia was putting in for him. Second season, he had that horrible injury but he came back and put in a sensational effort in the title run in. Injury in September. Out until March. Came back. Fergie prefered him to Nani in the CL Final.
Finally, we can't forget Valencia's fantastic season last year.
So, no, I'm not following the same logic as Valencia since he's been a consistent performer before this season. Maybe the #7 was too much pressure on the guy - I don't know. But in a big game, I'd trust Valencia's "do the job and go home" effectiveness than Nani's "Will he or won't he?" playing style.
That's me though.
What I said is true. If Nani actually had an interview recently stating how much he's earning and how much he wants, then I missed the memo. Apologies.
That's my feeling in a nutshell as well.
When he's on form, I can see why people are putting him in the current top 10 best players in the PL. But when they say it in general, then it annoys me. We laugh at other clubs rating their players too highly. Everyone has their opinion of course, but I reckon I could name 15 better players than Nani in the PL.
I'm done with this topic for now. I seem to be repeating myself. I just want to say that I do like Nani, and I do love watching him play GOOD football. But, I just think it's time for him to move on now.
I'd agree with that price for right now, because of his past season and half of the one before. The thing is, at his best, he is worth much more and is a better option then 90% of the wingers we could buy, and it's not like he's played himself out of form or turned shit like Valencia has last season. He just didn't get a run in the first team because of many injuries or bad luck like against Madrid.
3 weeks out with a hamstring injury none the less. He's been unlucky with injuries, just when he was finding form he got that red card and pulled his hammy. The Chelsea game was very poor from him, but it just shows how much a consistent run in the team means to a player like Nani and how it would effect his form. That game pretty much ended his season which was harsh. The whole team was poor that day.
If we sell Nani for 5-8million it'll be an absolute joke.
That's the kind of figure we splash on the Bebes and the promising kids in the lower leagues.
That's the kind of figure we splash on the Bebes and the promising kids in the lower leagues.
Only because of his contract though.. what choice you got?
for that amount i'd probably keep him a year and he can contribute a darn sight more than your Bebe/Manucho/Dong/Diouf et all did in their whole time with us.
He's had a season and a half when he's performed like what he's capable of.
The rest of his time here he's been erratic.
I'm not really sure if we should stand for this bullshit bumper contract thing, but then again that's what you get when you hand our 100 grand a week to your Ashley Youngs.
The rest of his time here he's been erratic.
I'm not really sure if we should stand for this bullshit bumper contract thing, but then again that's what you get when you hand our 100 grand a week to your Ashley Youngs.
Who is more inconsistent Nani or Rooney?
Nani. Quite fecking obviously.
not a fair question, but Nani... who would expect to be less consistent considering games/ wage/ price ? Nani...
No that was not my point at all. I was trying to get the opinion of people who call Nani inconsistent what they actually judge as inconsistent. I would say Rooney is a shade more inconsistent considering the fact that he plays far more than Nani and was until this season our best player. A Rooney season tends to fluctuate in the first half while from Januray onwards he plays at well . I would say 09/10 was his last truly great season and even then he played until March. Last year he was prolific but his all round game is sloppy but that is all for the Rooney thread. Nani is a proven quality player, fans have short memories when he is playing he is one of the leagues best players he has had an injury plauged season and has yet managed to show us more than Valencia and Young who will still be here if he goes. I hope he and the club can find an arrangement. 8 million is a joke and he will need to be replaced which will cost 20 million and at least Young's wages for a player who is unproven here.
Both are inconsistent, if that's the answer you're looking for.
Any new information regarding his future?
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