Luis Nani | 2012/13 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
If it's true that he wants an obscene wages then I'm backing Fergie. If it's not then well, I've already said it's a bit baffling. I wouldn't wager that it's merely Fergie's whim to freeze him out like that. What would be the point? It's not like with Berbatov where Sir Alex was just looking at the bigger picture. Besides, we lost some incomparably players over the years (even last two decades) and we've done just about right, haven't we?

We'll cope without him, I can assure you. We are just about to win the title basically without him in the team. He is the most talented of our wingers, or perhaps has the most flair out of them all, but that's about that. At his age, potential talent is no longer the oracle. And I did mean that bit about being stuck in some imaginary world. I pretty much always hear that 'he's the go to player if you want to win the game/score the goal out of nothing'. Granted he's better at it than Valencia or Young but how many times has he done it?

Nani's fanboys seem to be the total opposite of Fergie. Ignoring Nani's dross performances while talking up his famous past hot spells. Nani's outing against Chelsea was genuinely up there with the very worst I've seen from Man United player which came down as a striking irony seeing all the shit 'we' spouted at Valencia after the first leg (see: IAR's bollocking of his pass completion). He can be a terrific player when he is on song but at least try to be fair, it was only last year that Valencia was tearing every full-back he faced apart.
 
Tomuś said:
This. I think Pogue nailed it recently, saying Nani's poor form can be much more detrimental to the team than Valencia's or Young's. Some people are stuck in some imaginary world where Nani's consistently beating full-backs and putting in match-winning performances week in week out. He had that tremendous 18 months's spell and I don't want to see him go, which I've stated many a time.

The way some are reacting, though, makes you think he is Ronaldo or something.
Click to expand...

That's always been the poor bastard's problem, hasn't it? He isn't Ronaldo, nor will he ever be. If he leaves this summer we'll look back on his United career saying he never quite lived up to the expectations.

Which would be a fair assessment, I suppose. The expectations were unrealistic, certainly – but perhaps inevitable too. Ronaldo left and we “needed” Nani to up his game and take over for his compatriot. That was never going to happen. People – unreasonably – wanted a consistently brilliant world beater. They wanted someone truly exceptional, like Ronaldo, and they never got it – as anyone could've predicted. What we had/have in Nani was/is a very gifted player, an unpredictable and dangerous winger on his day – but this isn't enough if Ronaldo is the hallmark.

It may be that Fergie too has been guilty of piling too much expectation on Nani. Perhaps his natural ability has somehow worked against him: I think Fergie has been after a Ronaldo replacement ever since he left – someone with extreme qualities, someone who is exceptional in a way that Valencia or Young could never be. Nani, for all his qualities, has never established himself on such a sky-high level. Perhaps Fergie has waited for the day when Nani would finally emerge as Ronaldo II – at least subconsciously. I don't know – maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I do believe Fergie has always regarded Nani in a different light compared to someone like Valencia. The latter has a bread-and-butter side to him which Nani lacks – which in its turn means that Nani has to pour on the magic to a much larger degree in order to impress consistently.

If he does leave I think there's a real chance he will be huge success elsewhere: Whatever the reason is he seems to be stuck in some kind of rut here. He personally may benefit greatly from a move. I've always seen his performances for Portugal as an indication he would probably be more comfortable, and thus more consistent in his displays, in a different system than the one Fergie favours.
 
Yeah, fair point about being in Ronaldo's shadow. I wouldn't blame Fergie for that, though. The general consensus is something must have been going on behind the scenes and if it's true, it can't be something that puts Nani in a good light.

I've never expected him to become as good as Ronaldo, but I did think he would maintain his level of performances from 2010/11. The expectations you mentioned came from unrealistic beliefs ingrained among our fans after a few screamers he got. Actually, he's always been a bit of enigma to me, he's always looked not the cleverest of players but still ended up with quite a few goals and assists. My mate reckons he's more of that 'Throw enough shit against the wall, and something is likely to stick' type than a consistent quality type, which I find quite harsh.

He is the most talented of our wingers but ask Berbatov and you will see it doesn't always guarantee you a place. It's not like Fergie doesn't give a feck about him, though. He was given a start against Madrid - that was as big a confidence vote as you are likely to get.
 
Tomuś said:
Yeah, fair point about being in Ronaldo's shadow. I wouldn't blame Fergie for that, though. The general consensus is something must have been going on behind the scenes and if it's true, it can't be something that puts Nani in a good light.

I've never expected him to become as good as Ronaldo, but I did think he would maintain his level of performances from 2010/11. The expectations you mentioned came from unrealistic beliefs ingrained among our fans after a few screamers he got. Actually, he's always been a bit of enigma to me, he's always looked not the cleverest of players but still ended up with quite a few goals and assists. My mate reckons he's more of that 'Throw enough shit against the wall, and something is likely to stick' type than a consistent quality type, which I find quite harsh.

He is the most talented of our wingers but ask Berbatov and you will see it doesn't always guarantee you a place. It's not like Fergie doesn't give a feck about him, though. He was given a start against Madrid - that was as big a confidence vote as you are likely to get.
Click to expand...

Not sure it's a fair comparison to compare his talent with Berba's. You could tell with Berbatov since the start that he didn't fit in to United's style of play, and that he was almost opposition our usual quick play. Nani's style I think was almost perfect for us, a mix of great technical ability and directness from the wing, very unpredictable. He just had a lot of bad luck at times, like getting injured as he gets a run in the team. He probably didn't have the right mentality to really cement himself amongst the best players out there, because he certainly has the ability, as he showed in those 2 years where he was amongst the best wingers in the world. Never pushed on since then, but he has been injured for a lot of that time.
 
Gotta ask if Nani can't produce his best here consistently what makes people think he'll go elsewhere and do it?

Potentially he's great we all know that but during his time at United potential is all we've ever really seen isn't it?

He started off his United career great in his first season
Had a somewhat low key second season
Had an absolute mare of a third season for about two thirds of it
Fantastic two thirds of his forth season
Another low key season in his fifth year
And for one reason or another he's been anonymous in his sixth

He's going to be 27 shortly after next season starts, surely this season was his final make or break year? With that in mind and considering his next contract would take him into his thirties I'm actually now not surprised at the situation
 
bosnian_red said:
Not sure it's a fair comparison to compare his talent with Berba's. You could tell with Berbatov since the start that he didn't fit in to United's style of play, and that he was almost opposition our usual quick play. Nani's style I think was almost perfect for us, a mix of great technical ability and directness from the wing, very unpredictable. He just had a lot of bad luck at times, like getting injured as he gets a run in the team. He probably didn't have the right mentality to really cement himself amongst the best players out there, because he certainly has the ability, as he showed in those 2 years where he was amongst the best wingers in the world. Never pushed on since then, but he has been injured for a lot of that time.
Click to expand...

Agree about Berba, which I pointed out earlier, but I was getting merely at the 'talent' bit. Yeah, Nani had that spell when he was among the best wingers in the world but he's regressed since then.
 
charlenefan said:
Gotta ask if Nani can't produce his best here consistently what makes people think he'll go elsewhere and do it?
Click to expand...

Well, for one thing we set up in very particular way - hardly any of the other top sides play like we do. We have always used Nani as a "traditional" winger. Some might say he's better as a modern winger, or "wide forward", a role he has played successfully (and more consistently well) for his country.
 
I think that's what is frustrating about Nani in that the team is crying out for players with quality touch, link up play and close control, yet here we are with such a player rotting on the bench (sometimes not even that) that we're probably going to sell for feck all. There must be a situation because it'd be ridiculously poor stuff in terms of man management and tactics if there wasn't.

I disagree with the post up there regarding what Nani offers on a bad day, I must admit. Valencia and Young on a bad day offer absolutely nothing, even to the extent that they've looked at times like they've not actually wanted the ball. This nothing isn't just a nothing that exists in isolation and doesn't affect the team...one of the main reasons we've looked so static at times is because we've had too many of these sort of 'nothing' performances in our team. Nani on the other hand doesn't really have performances like that. Sure, he'll have the occasional nightmare whereby nothing will go right but at least there is some form of contribution most times when Nani plays. Aside from how threatening he can be as a player, his link up play is superior that that of our other wingers and that's what we've really been missing.

Basically, just having him on the pitch makes us a bit less one dimensional. There's also for the most part a bit of composure there with Nani that you don't get with the other two; this despite some of the Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime at Old Trafford who get on his back (this definitely happens) as soon as he shows any signs whatsoever of dawdling.

Ahh, the whole thing's a shame. My worry is that Zaha will come here to replace him, look quality at first and then slip into some particularly Valencia-esque performances and giving us a problem. That's not entirely rational given that Zaha looks a lot better than I first anticipated, but it's just a feeling.
 
For me Nani is better than Valencia in terms of ball control. I hate his antics but he is still a valuable player.
 
Tomuś said:
If it's true that he wants an obscene wages then I'm backing Fergie. If it's not then well, I've already said it's a bit baffling. I wouldn't wager that it's merely Fergie's whim to freeze him out like that. What would be the point? It's not like with Berbatov where Sir Alex was just looking at the bigger picture. Besides, we lost some incomparably players over the years (even last two decades) and we've done just about right, haven't we?

We'll cope without him, I can assure you. We are just about to win the title basically without him in the team. He is the most talented of our wingers, or perhaps has the most flair out of them all, but that's about that. At his age, potential talent is no longer the oracle. And I did mean that bit about being stuck in some imaginary world. I pretty much always hear that 'he's the go to player if you want to win the game/score the goal out of nothing'. Granted he's better at it than Valencia or Young but how many times has he done it?

Nani's fanboys seem to be the total opposite of Fergie. Ignoring Nani's dross performances while talking up his famous past hot spells. Nani's outing against Chelsea was genuinely up there with the very worst I've seen from Man United player which came down as a striking irony seeing all the shit 'we' spouted at Valencia after the first leg (see: IAR's bollocking of his pass completion). He can be a terrific player when he is on song but at least try to be fair, it was only last year that Valencia was tearing every full-back he faced apart.
Click to expand...

Jesus, for you to say Nani "fanboys" ignore his poor performances is quite ironic isn't it? I remember a fair few occasions where there were around 50 posts saying Valencia was rubbish only for you to then say otherwise or defend him.

I think you're talking bollocks, by the way, nobody has claimed he wasn't rubbish against Chelsea, read back, his biggest fans, myself and IAR and whatever, said straight after the match that he was rubbish and it was one of his worst performances in years. We've also not denied that he's had a poor season.

I always find it funny how you constantly come into this thread and decide to turn things into a Nani v Valencia debate, which you're doing above, it's like you can't just accept that some people prefer Nani as a footballer and think he's the better player and you have to run into his thread to try and dismiss that, and start going on about Valencia and how great he was and how mistreated he is, whatever.

How about you just ... give it a rest?
 
Cina said:
That, or maybe they're just worried that we're losing our most talented winger and will be stuck with two wingers who have had abysmal seasons and an unproven (albeit talented) 20 year old. I don't think anyone here considers him to be a Ronaldo type player or is stuck in an imaginery world, we just don't want to lose him because he is a very good player, he'll go for feck all, and the whole situation has been a disaster.

I'm not sure why you have to turn it into more than that or what the point of your post even was.
Click to expand...

Definitely.

charlenefan said:
Gotta ask if Nani can't produce his best here consistently what makes people think he'll go elsewhere and do it?

Potentially he's great we all know that but during his time at United potential is all we've ever really seen isn't it?

He started off his United career great in his first season
Had a somewhat low key second season
Had an absolute mare of a third season for about two thirds of it
Fantastic two thirds of his forth season
Another low key season in his fifth year
And for one reason or another he's been anonymous in his sixth

He's going to be 27 shortly after next season starts, surely this season was his final make or break year? With that in mind and considering his next contract would take him into his thirties I'm actually now not surprised at the situation
Click to expand...

If you split the majority of players' careers into small segments where they are on fire and disregard the rest as poor I'm sure they would look like they are crap.

How about something more along the lines of:

07-10: A young player in a new league showing great potential.
10-12: A player with great potential transforming into a player realising that potential (with a PoTY award and great stats to back it up)
12-13: Flashes of the 10-12 player who is still maintaining impressive stats; injuries and failing to be selected on a regular basis preventing a run of form.

I have no doubt that if Nani leaves he will find his 10-12 form and become one of the best wingers in the world again. It's a shame that it probably won't be with us due to (in my opinion) change in selecting attacking players based on their defensive qualities, rather than offensive ones.
 
That Nani picture with Obertan is very well done... :lol:

IN a more serious note, really hope he stays but I can't see it personally, SAF doesn't trust him and I feel for Nani that Valencia is allowed all this time to regain form while he has to hug the bench, but I suppose you never know what happens in training etc.. I'm sure he has his reasons and I will trust his judgement, but with Zaha and Bebe coming back, I think he will find time even more limited unfortunately, unless of course he pulls something out of the hat and plays like a man possessed for the last few, unless in SAF's head that would be just be raising the transfer fee, you never know...
 
Jaybezia said:
That Nani picture with Obertan is very well done... :lol:

IN a more serious note, really hope he stays but I can't see it personally, SAF doesn't trust him and I feel for Nani that Valencia is allowed all this time to regain form while he has to hug the bench, but I suppose you never know what happens in training etc.. I'm sure he has his reasons and I will trust his judgement, but with Zaha and Bebe coming back, I think he will find time even more limited unfortunately, unless of course he pulls something out of the hat and plays like a man possessed for the last few, unless in SAF's head that would be just be raising the transfer fee, you never know...
Click to expand...

Really.... Bebé.. ?
 
For all the stick Nani gets he is still the winger most likely to produce something every time he steps on the pitch. By and large, he does produce something. There was a game earlier this season where he was very poor and got slated - however in that game he did lay on 3 chances that the strikers should have scored and fluffed their lines. Whereas if Young or Valencia has a poor game they're just anonymous and may as well not be on the pitch.
 
charlenefan said:
Gotta ask if Nani can't produce his best here consistently what makes people think he'll go elsewhere and do it?
Click to expand...

Because whenever he was trusted here to play, like those amazing 18 months, he's always produced. Valencia, Rooney, RVP can all have bad couple of games and stay in this team, Nani, Hernandez and others can't. Nani has to be very good in every game or risk not being in the week after, it makes it tough to "find form".

Nani is consistently good for Portugal as he's a guaranteed starter and he was consistently good for us for 18 months where he was a guaranteed starter. If he goes somewhere else and they show faith in him, like Portugal do, he'll be a brilliant player for them.
 
Tomuś said:
Nani's fanboys seem to be the total opposite of Fergie. Ignoring Nani's dross performances while talking up his famous past hot spells. Nani's outing against Chelsea was genuinely up there with the very worst I've seen from Man United player
Click to expand...

What an absolute plonker you are. Do you not realise how stupid this post looks coming from you? :lol:

After the Chelsea game, and well, every poor Nani performance, I've fecking called it poor, I call a spade a spade whether I like a player or not. You on the other hand claim Valencia had a good game when 99% of other people think he's played shit... and then you make a fecking post like this. Seriously, what the flying feck!??!
 
I'm always right said:
Because whenever he was trusted here to play, like those amazing 18 months, he's always produced. Valencia, Rooney, RVP can all have bad couple of games and stay in this team, Nani, Hernandez and others can't. Nani has to be very good in every game or risk not being in the week after, it makes it tough to "find form".

Nani is consistently good for Portugal as he's a guaranteed starter and he was consistently good for us for 18 months where he was a guaranteed starter. If he goes somewhere else and they show faith in him, like Portugal do, he'll be a brilliant player for them.
Click to expand...

You seem to be implying Fergie has consistently treated him unfairly and refusing to play him for reasons that have nothing to do with his ability at playing football or his performances on the pitch. Any idea why a manager as good/experienced as Fergie would deliberately weaken his team in this way?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You seem to be implying Fergie has consistently treated him unfairly and refusing to play him for reasons that have nothing to do with his ability at playing football or his performances on the pitch. Any idea why a manager as good/experienced as Fergie would deliberately weaken his team in this way?
Click to expand...

I'm not implying that at all Pogue. I'm saying that SAF trusts certain players to play through a poor patch and not others, he obviously does what is right for his type of team because well, just look at his results.

To be fair, I don't there's anything controversial in that at all.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You seem to be implying Fergie has consistently treated him unfairly and refusing to play him for reasons that have nothing to do with his ability at playing football or his performances on the pitch. Any idea why a manager as good/experienced as Fergie would deliberately weaken his team in this way?
Click to expand...

He's played half the games Young and Valencia have this season, and has more goals and assists than the two of them combined. There's clearly more to it than football reasons.
 
pocco said:
Do you think we'll give Bebe game time next season? Be good to see him get a bit of game time again in the cups etc.
Click to expand...

So hard to accurately predict, FWIW the loan spell is doing him well, is he looking like a regular starter for Manchester United? No, but according to SAF, clearly, neither is Nani...

I would like to think he will get 1/2 appearances, but past that; if he plays well, its hard to drop someone and with the apparent lack of form of our wingers...

But do I expect Bebe to competing for a spot next season? Yes I hope so, but that is by no means an indication that he is better/superior to Nani (Nani is obviously a far greater player) but it comes down to what the manager wants/see's and Bebe is improving, albeit in a worser league...
 
Getting rid of a player like Nani without replacement with a real game changer of a winger only weakens us. I'd keep him in front of Valencia or Young in a heartbeat.
 
If Bebe is going to be a player, he's definitely not going to be a winger.
 
Cina said:
He's played half the games Young and Valencia have this season, and has more goals and assists than the two of them combined. There's clearly more to it than football reasons.
Click to expand...

There's also clearly more to the game than goals and assists, too.

I do think Nani should have played more this season, but don't forget he was injured for a while as well.
 
Bebe is a long way from being a Manchester United player IMO. Love he's done well at Rio Ave but he would have to improve significantly to be considered a player worthy of a first team squad place.

It would be a great story mind.
 
Cina said:
He's played half the games Young and Valencia have this season, and has more goals and assists than the two of them combined. There's clearly more to it than football reasons.
Click to expand...

37012468.jpg
 
Cina said:
He's played half the games Young and Valencia have this season, and has more goals and assists than the two of them combined. There's clearly more to it than football reasons.
Click to expand...

He's a better player than either. There must be something going on.
 
It doesn't matter that he's a better player than Young or Valencia. Fergie's treating Nani this way because in the boss' eyes he's done (or still doing) something wrong.
 
Mungy and Tomus :lol:

Anyway claiming Nani's performance agaisnt Chelsea was worse than anything Val or Young produced this season haven't watched United. Full stop. Those 2 looked like fecking pub players at times this season, especially Valencia.

But anyway, if were are really about to sell him then we better have someone in mind to replace him. Valencia, Young and Zaha just don't provide enough quality, although I have high hopes for Zaha

I know we are about to win the leauge although we haven't relied on our wing play at all, as every player we have in that position was either out of form for the whole of the season or not allowed or injured for quite some time, but still I think we shouldnt rely on the firepower of our strikers alone again next season.

If he is about to leave need a qualitiy replacement imo.
 
Cina said:
He's played half the games Young and Valencia have this season, and has more goals and assists than the two of them combined. There's clearly more to it than football reasons.
Click to expand...

It would appear so, and I don't buy Pogue's comment about it being about more than goals and assists either as Young seems to create nothing, and Valencia stops the attacks more often than not these days. I'm a fan of Valencia, but he has been atrocious this season, so there should be no footballing reasons to play him before Nani.
 
Maybe it's a case of Val & Ashley being uncomplaining squad members, whereas Nani...isn't.
 
Nani needs a run of games to really get going. Partly due to injury and partly due to his contract dispute, he is not getting that run. This means we will not see the best of Nani before his contract runs down. I think he will be sold, very unfortunately.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.