Yes!
I'm ecstatic that we have Nani on the left and Valencia on the right. It's perfect football to me, two proper but different wingers. Nani has had an immense season, Valencia has been fantastically impressive after his return. Rejoice!
Luis Nani | 2010/11 Performances
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I'm ecstatic that we have Nani on the left and Valencia on the right. It's perfect football to me, two proper but different wingers. Nani has had an immense season, Valencia has been fantastically impressive after his return. Rejoice!
I missed that post by Rowem.
Very true!
It's the culture we're in to try to build people up and then knock them down. Sad to see us doing it to our own players though. I often do it to Carrick though so people in glass houses and all that!
Very true!
It's the culture we're in to try to build people up and then knock them down. Sad to see us doing it to our own players though. I often do it to Carrick though so people in glass houses and all that!
We should learn from PeterStorey. It's all about how fantastic all Arsenal's players are (except Almunia), and how shit our players are. It's never about Fabregas being an annoying and moaning twat, Nasri being an unreliable bitch who disappeared for a couple of months when they needed him or Koscielny being the biggest calamity CB in the league.
Peterstorey. An example to us all of what a true fan should be.
I'm off to Rawk to poke fun at Liverpool supporters!
I'm off to Rawk to poke fun at Liverpool supporters!
Which parts of my argument where I gave my reasons for by belief that Valencia should be preferable in that position to Nani, are insensible then?
Probably not good enough (or prepared to get stuck in) in the air to justify the position. IMO the single biggest difference between him and tbpitw (though I'm not saying he's as good in every other respect).
Basically all the parts that ignore all the brilliant counter-arguments you get from multiple different posters.
Such as?
Or are we really in a position where we faux surprise at counter arguments that are countered if they don't have the other person admitting their own opinion in the first place was wrong?
How about just above? We've relied heavily on Nani for large portions of this current season to provide goals, attacking impetus and flair, and he has very, very rarely let anyone down; along with one or two others, Nani has been the standout star of this, in all likelihood, Premier League winning, Champions League finalist United team; his reliability simply cannot be questioned after the amazing return of end-product he has given us exactly when we needed it; when Nani has been called upon, he has been there, standing up to the plate and banging in goals and assists at a rate of approximately one per game (something which you're inexplicably and moronicaly discounting as mere statistics baring no reflection on Nani's actual in-game performance; whilst at the same time ignoring too the many plaudits received by Nani in the caf's MOTM thread, equally as inexplicably discounting that too as being a poor reflection of a player's in-game performance). And yet, your main argument for not thinking Nani the best in his position in the country is that you think Valencia has this amazing reliability which in Nani you find lacking. Frankly, I personally find it pretty astounding that you're so completely blind to Nani's fantastic reliability this season; you're fecking mental, there's no other explanation for it; you're just being a dick.
I didn't say i was blind to Nani's ability, I just think Valencia is someone who I'd prefer to see on the team sheet ahead of him because of his overall assuredness and consistency.
Despite Nani's overall assuredness and consistency, which by every indicator conceivable has been more assured and consistent than any other winger in the league?
It's me accusing you of being blind to Nani's ability; I wouldn't expect you to see it for yourself.
Valencia is a brilliant player, love his attitude and you can reliably get a 7 performance from him most games but, that's the thing - you won't get many games where he is an 8/9/10 a season. With Nani you'll get an odd game here or there that is maybe 6/5 but, you'll also get a lot of games where he puts in a 8/9 performance and is lot more likely to put in a 10 than Valencia.
It's nice to have a player like Valencia that you can rely on, it's something that is said for Park, you know what kind of performance you are going to get from him but, for a team like United - they need a Nani a lot more if they are going to win trophies at the end of the season, players that through individual performances win games.
This isn't a slight against either Park / Valencia as they are just as important of a cog in the team but, unlikely a team would win many trophies with a team full of them only. Hard working, reliable but, when you need that bit of individual magic - you can reliably say, it won't be them.
It's nice to have a player like Valencia that you can rely on, it's something that is said for Park, you know what kind of performance you are going to get from him but, for a team like United - they need a Nani a lot more if they are going to win trophies at the end of the season, players that through individual performances win games.
This isn't a slight against either Park / Valencia as they are just as important of a cog in the team but, unlikely a team would win many trophies with a team full of them only. Hard working, reliable but, when you need that bit of individual magic - you can reliably say, it won't be them.
Fair enough point. I can't remember too much of nani heading the ball over the past few years. Maybe its because he doesn't be in those positions often enough. You certainly don't have to be tall and particularly strong to score from headers though, look at Chico and his headers. All down to positioning and attacking the ball bravely.
You'll get plenty of 8 performances from Valencia!
Agree with that. fecking quality player.
Any winger that can give you plenty of 8/10 performances over a season and then the rest are a 7 I'd say probably qualifies then for best winger in the country.
Perhaps difference in opinion for what constitutes and 8/10 but, for me at minimum for a winger needs to be involved heavily with a goal and consistently raping the fullback. Tony V puts in a lot of solid performances, a threat, good defensively and rarely gives the ball away but, not as yet giving plenty of 8/10 performances. This season he may have if not for the injury but, that's to be seen.
Perhaps difference in opinion for what constitutes and 8/10 but, for me at minimum for a winger needs to be involved heavily with a goal and consistently raping the fullback. Tony V puts in a lot of solid performances, a threat, good defensively and rarely gives the ball away but, not as yet giving plenty of 8/10 performances. This season he may have if not for the injury but, that's to be seen.
Word of advice, just give up. He's got a hard-on for Valencia and clearly doesn't like Nani. He'll nit-pick at bits of what you say, bits he can actually 'argue' with and ignore the rest which he can't argue with.
Basically, he's a dick.
Sorry but if you guys still think Valencia is better than Nani after seeing the latter step up in Rooney's absence, you are crazy.
Totally agree with this. I don't think Valencia has a 9 or 10 in his locker, whereas when things go right for Nani (as with Rooney) he can walk it.
I agree with Laphroaig, you get plenty of 8/10 performances from Valencia, he's fecking class.
I don't see the point in comparing Nani and Valencia though, they're totally different types of players and bring different things to the table, they compliment each other brilliantly when they're on the pitch together and I don't see the need to pitch one against the other - play them both.
I don't see the point in comparing Nani and Valencia though, they're totally different types of players and bring different things to the table, they compliment each other brilliantly when they're on the pitch together and I don't see the need to pitch one against the other - play them both.
Why does this thread always disappear when Nani isn't selected for a big game?
Ferguson confirms last night Valencia played ahead of Nani because he's in better form.
Ferguson confirms last night Valencia played ahead of Nani because he's in better form.
Am really perplexed with what you are on about here. It's a thread about Nani, so if he didn't play or played for all of 5-10 min - it's hard to talk about him being the best winger in the country or not if there isn't a performance to talk about.
Oh wait now I get it - you are saying he didn't play in what is a big game, so he can't be the best winger in the country .... so we should be discussing that?
There's no doubt Valencia's in better form. Nani's gone off the boil since he had his shin sliced open. So what? Players go through dips in form. Just like Valencia did last season, when Fergie dropped him for a run of games at around this time. Shit happens. That's why we've a squad of players to pick from.
Maybe Fergie realises Nani needs a rest, he's been playing almost all season and performing very very well. I'm sure he'll be in the Arsenal match. European aways always favour Park in the team.
Maybe he does. When a player is out of form, a few games off can rejuvenate them. I've no doubt Nani will still have a part to play before the season's out. Whatever, a few weeks out if form (or even a few months) shouldn't be used as evidence that a player was never that good to begin with. Happens all the time, though, annoyingly enough.
He didn't speak of Nani playing instead of Park. He said that he could have played Nani but Valencia was in fantastic form.
Park has nothing to do with it.
I hate the way my position and contention that Valencia is preferable to Nani has somehow been painted as an extremist position and those who have been far more arrogant and aggressive with their disagreements with me than I have with them, somehow try to come across as they're trying to be reasonable.
He clearly was in need of a rest. But I wonder how much it has to do with Hernandez in the sense that with Valencia you're far more likely to get an 'early' ball, or at least get the pass/cross much sooner than with Nani and for a player like Hernandez who plays on the shoulder of the last defender always, could be preferable.
I also think there's perhaps an issue of confidence, particularly in Europe and in the big away games of playing either one of the twins behind Nani on the right. I think when Nani does play, it is far more likely to be with John O'Shea behind him.
Your first paragraph is boggling - it's as if you've never seen the two players for United. Early ball? Nani plays in a lot more earlier balls than Valencia ever does. In fact the one scrumptious ball Valencia put in in early today was the first in a long while I've seen from him from that far back. His normal mode is to get close to beat the full back, get to the touch line and then get a cross in.
Maybe you are too stuck on the fact that Nani does have that part of his game where he dribbles and works on beating 1-2 players on his own, either to manufacture his own shot or even just to cause havoc in the 18 yard box and for a winger you don't like that much and prefer Valencia more traditional wing play.
I don't think people think you are too extremist - just no one can understand where you are coming from especially when you make statements like Valencia is more likely to put in an early ball than Nani. Unless you mean that Valencia is more likely to work to get a cross in than to try go in on his own, then that's a more apt observation.
over the last 4/5 weeks Nani's productivity has dropped a little whilst valencia has been absolutely immense
they are both excellent wingers but fergie obviously rates valencia's reliability, consistency as well as his attacking strength over Nani at the minute
what a great problem to have
they are both excellent wingers but fergie obviously rates valencia's reliability, consistency as well as his attacking strength over Nani at the minute
what a great problem to have
Oh look, ciderman. My thoughts vindicated by none other than Sir Alex Ferguson.
I knew you'd bump this thread after last night. Pathetic.
Just give it a fecking rest Aaron, either you're on a WUM here or being petty. This argument has clearly run its course. We get it, no matter what we say, you prefer Valencia over Nani. Done. Finito. feck off.
Indeed it's a lovely problem to have but having Valencia back for the last few games is like signing a new player.It's more to do with his freshness than overall reliability, Nani has had a dip in form but he's been on the go for the whole season and he'll be back to his best.
We pick different players for different matches.It's clear that Valencia defensively is suited to the European games while maybe both of them can be played in the PL where they offer defences different problems.I'd like to see them both start against Arsenal.
Does anyone still think he's the best player in the league?
None of the best player candidates have kept their standards up for a full season, so he'd have to be right up there.
Rooney is the best player in the league.
Nani has argubally showed the best form though.
Nani has argubally showed the best form though.
I was more referring to the idea that he is the best player in the league, thus taking into account more than this season's form, rather than he has been the best player in the league (this season).
I don't think he was ever the best player in the league this season. For me, Vidic had a better season for United.
I think he was a good shout for the top six, mind you, I'd have certainly had him in that group.
Funnily enough though I can see the argument that he might not get into United's best side at the moment due to the Rooney and Hernandez partnership and Giggs/Carrick partnership. Valencia and Park do compliment these pairings very well. If the CL final was tomorrow I would want Fergie to go with last night's side barring a decision on which twin to play at right back.
Edit: If you are talking generally about who is the best player in the league I would have Rooney and Vidic ahead of Nani currently as well as Fabregas and would consider a fair few others who have been off form this season(e.g. Lampard, Torres, Drogba, etc)
To be fair, bumping the thread to gloat about how one of our players wasn't selected for a big game is pretty odd behaviour.
Actually, yes, he has been quality all season long.
FFS though, how could I forget our keeper? For me, the most consistently excellent player in the Premier League this season is Edwin Van Der Sar.
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