Louis van Gaal's tactics

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Didn't realise this thread was still alive, I'm thinking about making a new one once all the transfers are done. Right now I can't really predict the GK/CB/ST/winger scenario (although Pedro for Di Maria looks fecking obvious) which makes it difficult. The thing is writing a post like that takes me ages since I have trouble explaining it in English, I want to make it quality.

In the OP I said 433 with the point forwards is his preferred formation- we've seen that now. We can call it 4411 or 4231 but van Gaal calls it 433. The reason it's a bit iffy is because of the 10, he plays more as a 2nd striker then as a CAM. I thought Memphis was brought in for the LW, but I can see him as a long term 10 over Mata/Herrera which I thought would be playing there. For now it might just be an experiment which can be dropped after a few bad performances (mainly losing possesion too much in the MF) but I think he has big plans with Memphis. This formations has it's problems (like @Sam mentioned the 2 forwards can look very disjointed) but I won't go to deep into discussing this yet. It was my birthday yesterday and I'm still hangover :angel:

Like I said in the OP the 10 is very important, in an ideal van Gaal scenario he's likely to score and assist more than the striker does. Memphis is clinical, creative and offensive wise he can do everything on top of being built like a tank. Defensively he hasn't done much in his carreer (he usually had freedom) but when he was tasked with defending at the NT or vs big opponents as Ajax/Zenit/AC Milan he defended superbly, it's not his strong point yet mind. I don't think van Gaal will give up on this experiment soon, Memphis is as complete going forward as you'll find at 21 but he can still be Schweinsteigered at his age. It's not looking likely that he will be a bit-part player in his first season, which I can understand. The lad is mature enough for the PL.

@Physiocrat
Yes, the defensive players I mentioned are centrally because the fullbacks are also part of the attacking gameplan.
The fullbacks need to be good at everything basically. He wants tactical fullbacks who can perform his gameplan, not just bomb forward in the hope that they'll receive a pass. They need to defend first and foremost, but also go forward per instruction. I'd say keeping possesion/being good defensively>bombing forward is what he prefers yes.

In that case,i am doomed,dont care as long it really works out for us but i am really having an issue with 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1 w/e it is. Rather see 1 DM who protects his CBs with 2 CMs in front then 2 DMs with freaking number 10 with some gap between.
 
In that case,i am doomed,dont care if it really works out for us but i am really having an issue with 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1 w/e it is. Rather see 1 DM who protects his CBs with 2 CMs in front then 2 DMs with freaking number 10 with some gap between.
It's the obsession with two DM's. All we needed was a back up for Michael and then play two in front of him. He is making us ultra defensive with no link from the back to the front. Sound oh too familiar.
 
In that case,i am doomed,dont care as long it really works out for us but i am really having an issue with 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1 w/e it is. Rather see 1 DM who protects his CBs with 2 CMs in front then 2 DMs with freaking number 10 with some gap between.

Always has been his most used formation in the past, should've seen it coming. Even if he played 433 with one holding mid the BTB midfielder usually was very defensive, or in our case the 10 was very defensive so it wasn't a big difference. I thought he'd go for this last year but he opted for 352, which wasn't great in hindsight.
 
Didn't realise this thread was still alive, I'm thinking about making a new one once all the transfers are done. Right now I can't really predict the GK/CB/ST/winger scenario (although Pedro for Di Maria looks fecking obvious) which makes it difficult. The thing is writing a post like that takes me ages since I have trouble explaining it in English, I want to make it quality.

In the OP I said 433 with the point forwards is his preferred formation- we've seen that now. We can call it 4411 or 4231 but van Gaal calls it 433. The reason it's a bit iffy is because of the 10, he plays more as a 2nd striker then as a CAM. I thought Memphis was brought in for the LW, but I can see him as a long term 10 over Mata/Herrera which I thought would be playing there. For now it might just be an experiment which can be dropped after a few bad performances (mainly losing possesion too much in the MF) but I think he has big plans with Memphis. This formations has it's problems (like @Sam mentioned the 2 forwards can look very disjointed) but I won't go to deep into discussing this yet. It was my birthday yesterday and I'm still hangover :angel:

Like I said in the OP the 10 is very important, in an ideal van Gaal scenario he's likely to score and assist more than the striker does. Memphis is clinical, creative and offensive wise he can do everything on top of being built like a tank. Defensively he hasn't done much in his carreer (he usually had freedom) but when he was tasked with defending at the NT or vs big opponents as Ajax/Zenit/AC Milan he defended superbly, it's not his strong point yet mind. I don't think van Gaal will give up on this experiment soon, Memphis is as complete going forward as you'll find at 21 but he can still be Schweinsteigered at his age. It's not looking likely that he will be a bit-part player in his first season, which I can understand. The lad is mature enough for the PL.

@Physiocrat
Yes, the defensive players I mentioned are centrally because the fullbacks are also part of the attacking gameplan.
The fullbacks need to be good at everything basically. He wants tactical fullbacks who can perform his gameplan, not just bomb forward in the hope that they'll receive a pass. They need to defend first and foremost, but also go forward per instruction. I'd say keeping possesion/being good defensively>bombing forward is what he prefers yes.

As always, I really appreciate your post @NL Max

But its becoming clearer and clearer to me, that LVG's tactics are just incredibly outdated and poor.
 
he considers that to be a 4-3-3? So by that logic, Memphis was playing in midfield?

Well then we're in real trouble against Spurs I'm afraid. That defence, the 2-man midfield, Mata on the wing, Memphis as a (traditionally) CF....I don't think that will work against premier league opposition in a competitive environment.

Defending against Barca, Memphis had a clear instruction to sit on Busquets when they had the ball. That's a midfielder's job.
Attacking, Memphis made numerous runs beyond Rooney, as well as picking the ball up from deep positions and carrying it forward. That's also a midfielder's job.
 
Always has been his most used formation in the past, should've seen it coming. Even if he played 433 with one holding mid the BTB midfielder usually was very defensive, or in our case the 10 was very defensive so it wasn't a big difference. I thought he'd go for this last year but he opted for 352, which wasn't great in hindsight.

It seems that LVG's favoured formation if he could get the right players is the 3-4-3 diamond. 4 defensive players, two hybrid players in the wide midfielders with 4 attacking players. Lots of triangles, a high press up the field producing lots of chances.
 
It's the obsession with two DM's. All we needed was a back up for Michael and then play two in front of him. He is making us ultra defensive with no link from the back to the front. Sound oh too familiar.

He just over complicates things far too much.

A team like this Carrick/Herrera/Morgan - Memphis/Pedro/Rooney would look instantly better then the team he's currently playing. It would be faster, with a higher tempo, and far more link up between midfield and attack.
 
It seems that LVG's favoured formation if he could get the right players is the 3-4-3 diamond. 4 defensive players, two hybrid players in the wide midfielders with 4 attacking players. Lots of triangles, a high press up the field producing lots of chances.
He doesn't have the time to keep trying to find these players. He isn't a young manager building a club from scratch. This club has to get back to winning and fast. There has to be some improvement on last season. In another thread it has been mentioned that if English clubs don't do well this season in europe it could soon be down to 3 CL places.
 
Didn't realise this thread was still alive, I'm thinking about making a new one once all the transfers are done. Right now I can't really predict the GK/CB/ST/winger scenario (although Pedro for Di Maria looks fecking obvious) which makes it difficult. The thing is writing a post like that takes me ages since I have trouble explaining it in English, I want to make it quality.

In the OP I said 433 with the point forwards is his preferred formation- we've seen that now. We can call it 4411 or 4231 but van Gaal calls it 433. The reason it's a bit iffy is because of the 10, he plays more as a 2nd striker then as a CAM. I thought Memphis was brought in for the LW, but I can see him as a long term 10 over Mata/Herrera which I thought would be playing there. For now it might just be an experiment which can be dropped after a few bad performances (mainly losing possesion too much in the MF) but I think he has big plans with Memphis. This formations has it's problems (like @Sam mentioned the 2 forwards can look very disjointed) but I won't go to deep into discussing this yet. It was my birthday yesterday and I'm still hangover :angel:

Like I said in the OP the 10 is very important, in an ideal van Gaal scenario he's likely to score and assist more than the striker does. Memphis is clinical, creative and offensive wise he can do everything on top of being built like a tank. Defensively he hasn't done much in his carreer (he usually had freedom) but when he was tasked with defending at the NT or vs big opponents as Ajax/Zenit/AC Milan he defended superbly, it's not his strong point yet mind. I don't think van Gaal will give up on this experiment soon, Memphis is as complete going forward as you'll find at 21 but he can still be Schweinsteigered at his age. It's not looking likely that he will be a bit-part player in his first season, which I can understand. The lad is mature enough for the PL.

Regarding the part about the point forwards. I read an interview from a few years ago with LVG where he talks about preferring the point in midfield backwards as it allows more space for the Centre halves to step into. What makes you think he prefers the point forwards?

Regarding the rest of this thread only an idiot would think we are not going to play 4-3-3 this season. I think the big difference we are seeing just now is with the experiment with the point forwards now we have the players to play this. I think most of our success in the 4-3-3 last season came from having the point backwards with Felliani and Herrera pushing up against defences and creating 3 v 2 situations on the left and the right. Teams just could not handle this for a while.

I think if you look at last night playing with the point forwards it may be a lot to do with trying to protect the defence but the result is we don't have the numbers upfield to make our possesion count as we did with the point backwards.
 
He doesn't have the time to keep trying to find these players. He isn't a young manager building a club from scratch. This club has to get back to winning and fast. There has to be some improvement on last season. In another thread it has been mentioned that if English clubs don't do well this season in europe it could soon be down to 3 CL places.

If he plays the likes of bastian and carrick together, benching herrera and schneiderlin, playing depay off the striker, and using young and mata has our wide boys, and not thinking, well I have a couple of quality younger midfielders in schneiderlin and herrera who can press dominate games, but I will keep them on the bench anyway. That is when we will have some serious problems with VG's logic
 
When you opt to play with a 1-4-3-3 you will, in my perception, have optimal field positioning. You can then decide whether to play with the point (in midfield) forwards or backwards. A lot of teams nowadays opt to play with the point backwards, but I prefer to play with the point forwards. When you want to move one player up from the back there will be more room to do this when you are playing with the point forward. You automatically create more space to move up from the back. When you play with the point backwards you will have to create this space by moving out of the way. Furthermore, I believe that when you play with the point backwards the distance to the striker generally speaking becomes too big. The striker will therefore often be isolated from the rest of the team. It is then up to the quality of the midfielders whether they are able to de-isolate the striker or not
remembered LvG saying he did not like the false 9 role with Messi as the example
also Blind and Memphis stay where they are.
http://www.ncsoccer.org/docs/education/coaches/u19_objective_creates_exercise.pdf
 
What is wrong with the false 9, especially when one of his own disciples is a master at using one wherever he goes?
just he did not prefer that style, I think. the last bolded part from the quote explained the reason. Not that I like his way either, strikers today should become false 9, both a scorer and an assister. the ideal attack nowadays is a 3 man upfront with one central forward and 2 wide forwards who cut in and shoot or combine with the central guy, so there's no need for a second striker, you wouldn't like the space before the penalty box to be packed. also playing with no number 10, you can maintain personnel in other zones.
 
Perhaps to him there is just football, not Spanish football, not German football, not English football, just football?

He has already stated each game is different and his tactics are tweaked depending on the opposition, he will identify strengths and weaknesses of his opponents, attempt to neutralise their strengths and exploit their weaknesses.
Well, yes. That is what I am saying. He's made no attempt to adapt to the cultural style of the football being played. He's plonked his philosophy goalposts down and won't risk changing anything. If all this homework and preparation means neutering the playing group so far down that they barely score and can't break down the opposition that park the bus then it is further evidence that his lack of adaptation is a hindrance.
 
Well, yes. That is what I am saying. He's made no attempt to adapt to the cultural style of the football being played. He's plonked his philosophy goalposts down and won't risk changing anything. If all this homework and preparation means neutering the playing group so far down that they barely score and can't break down the opposition that park the bus then it is further evidence that his lack of adaptation is a hindrance.

Teams also park the bus in Germany and Spain…

He has explained the reason our team has been less effective than he'd like in breaking down parked buses is because we need more creativity in the final third, he touched upon Young's limitations for example, he also wants more width on the right.

It doesn't matter whether we are playing a budnesliga, la liga or premier league team, if they park the bus it requires similar tactics to break them down, we lack the creativity in the final third and that's why he hoped Angel di Maria would stay but now that he is leaving it's likely the manager will look to bring somebody in.
 
As always, I really appreciate your post @NL Max

But its becoming clearer and clearer to me, that LVG's tactics are just incredibly outdated and poor.

What specifically makes you think that? I think his tactical concept is still pretty sound he just is favours a very risk averse playing style but Mourinho won the league last season with a very risk averse style as well.
 
I've given up trying to understand LvG at the moment. I can kind of understand why he played Wilson out wide with Adnan up front, and why he's playing Memphis in the middle, but I fail to understand why he's playing Jones and Blind as our two CB's with Smalling on the bench.

What I know is, LvG knows 9999 times more football than anyone on the Caf, and I'm sure he has a good reason for everything he does. What I've also noted is that he's not being honest in his press conferences. He's basically trolling the media talking about a surprise striker or something when we all know there would be no reason for him to come out and say something like that to the media if he actually was going to sign a surprise striker or whatever. Plus, he said that Darmian was bought in as a backup for Valencia. The best player in the Italian national team for the past year playing as a backup for Antonio fecking Valencia? Yeah right.

I'm giving up. Louis, keep on doing whatever you are doing. I still trust you 100% and I'm also enjoying reading hundreds of confused Caf members trying to comprehend what you're doing, so cheers for that. Just don't fecking disappoint me against Spurs on the 8th. I'm actually going to OT to see the game live, something I very rarely get the chance to do, so for the love of god, sort things out until then.

for darmian i believe lvg meant he's the 2nd right back come for the team, instead of a back up to valencia. i think it's more about his english. this is a 60+ olds dutch whom english could probably not even be his 2nd language.

about the surprise signing, i guess he did a jump speak. when he talked about the strikers and was kept being asked by journos about any new signin, he already thought about into another thing (the surprise signing) and spoke it out immediately without cohesive connection to their previous conversation. the surprise signing may not be a center forward that the talk was going in line, but may also be a striker in meaningful sense. that's why i bet that surprise signing in process would be christiano ronaldo

about deploying blind as one of the CBs, apart from the player being a left footer, i think lvg would need at least one of the CBs to be good on the ball, and he's still not satisfied the level of jones or smalling in this area hence one of them was sacrificed

i understand that in UK if a defender cannot break some attacker's legs, he will never be rated. but the chance to concede a goal because of the deficiency of a defender on one-vs-one situation is indeed not high. i didn't go get figures about it but i well believe this would be minimal. >90% of times a team would concede goals because of errors here or there. be fair to blind also, i didn't see he was bad during our preseason games so far. i thought he is short but actually he's still 180cm, same as jones.
 
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Teams also park the bus in Germany and Spain…

He has explained the reason our team has been less effective than he'd like in breaking down parked buses is because we need more creativity in the final third, he touched upon Young's limitations for example, he also wants more width on the right.
Teams park the bus everywhere. Including in England. The other big difference in England is if you use speed and relentless pressure they crack faster than your average defence. In England there is more of a level playing field to employ these types of tactics because of the less tactical nature of the footballing landscape. Decades under Ferguson confirms this, basically from what we saw last year, devolving each game into a tactical battle and/or chess match will more than likely result in more lost points than more gained points. Tireless amounts of possession and OCD control over every facet of the game basically renders the attack pointless.

Now that sample size itself is quite small, only a single season but a very telling one if you factor in Van Gaal's inability to change and adapt his ways to suit his surroundings. If we see more of the same that we saw last season then we are going to be in for a torrid time.

We don't really lack creativity in the final third, we lack pace and the desire to create pressure and dynamism. All of the front three players can all play at a high level in attack, the big difference is they have been drilled to value not losing possession in the final third over taking risks. Trying multiple avenues to attack your individual opponent is basically stepping outside of the required systems in place for you to function in this system. Their underlying logic while being coached at the moment is to not stuff it up, because if you do you will probably get dropped. If you use your instincts then you are going against the grain.

Call me negative and pessimistic but that all became clear about 3/4 of the way through the year with all the pointless fluffing about and trying to make everything work. It is almost like demolishing the building just to re-design the master bedroom with an ensuite.

It doesn't matter whether we are playing a budnesliga, la liga or premier league team, if they park the bus it requires similar tactics to break them down, we lack the creativity in the final third and that's why he hoped Angel di Maria would stay but now that he is leaving it's likely the manager will look to bring somebody in.
Angel Di Maria is the absolute perfect example of what I am talking about. A clearly gifted and talented footballer in attack, a risk taker, a fine dribbler and a player who can put teams on the back foot. Why is he not in the fold? Why is he not one of the coveted players in the squad?

He plays naturally outside the construct of Van Gaal's system and is unwilling to adapt his game to suit it. Players like Herrera, Januzaj and Valencia are living proof that being willing to adapt your game to suit Van Gaal is more favoured than being a talented player who plays contrary to the system. RVP, Nani, Di Maria, Falcao (who tried desperately and received absolutely zero backing in terms of system play and was basically thrown tot he wolves), Zaha (albeit not good enough) and Welbeck (reaching on my part to include him admittedly) have now either not been deemed useful enough or chosen to move on.

It isn't just about creativity and pace and players pedigree and stature and who they are as a footballer. You have to be willing to adhere to the methods and style. The methods and style are almost the complete opposite to what has historically won the league over the last 20 years. Until he realizes that the OCD levels of possession, strictness and gimping of our attacking players are the main underlying problem it doesn't matter who we bring in, it will likely end the same.
 
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The issue for me is that the front facing triangle (ie 4-2-3-1) just doesnt really suit the players we have, in my opinion. We played some fantastic football last season with a backward pointing 4-3-3, getting the best out of Carrick, Herrera and Fellaini in midfield. Herrera is a #8 for me, not a 10, and Memphis should be used as a wide forward. The fact that we have bought both Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin heavily implies we are going to be predominantly playing a 4-2-3-1 (or forward facing 4-3-3, whatever you want to call it) with two holding players.

We have the tools to play the same system that had Chelsea parking the bus at Stamford Bridge, and us as the in form team in the league, but it seems LVG is insistent on going back to "his" 4-3-3, and I am not convinced that it suits our personel. It annoys me because I distinctly recall last season an interview where LVG went out of his way to explain that he isn't stubborn and is happy to change and adapt if he sees a way he can improve his system. It feels like we are just undoing some of the good work we did last year at the moment , having Memphis central, Herrera on the bench, Jones/Blind at CB etc...
 
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I am not convinced that it suits our personel.

That was an excuse last season but not this season. He has shaped the squad to suit his system, namely cutting down on strikers and bringing in two capable number sixes.

It is a shame that no ball playing defender has been signed as it looks like he will opt for Blind, nonetheless Van Gaal will come under more warranted scrutiny this season.
 
The issue for me is that the front facing triangle (ie 4-2-3-1) just doesnt really suit the players we have, in my opinion. We played some fantastic football last season with a backward pointing 4-3-3, getting the best out of Carrick, Herrera and Fellaini in midfield. Herrera is a #8 for me, not a 10, and Memphis should be used as a wide forward.

We have the tools to play the same system that had Chelsea parking the bus at Stamford Bridge, and us as the in form team in the league, but it seems LVG is insistent on going back to "his" 4-3-3, and I am not convinced that it suits our personel. It annoys me because I distinctly recall last season an interview where LVG went out of his way to explain that he isn't stubborn and is happy to change and adapt if he sees a way he can improve his system. It feels like we are just undoing some of the good work we did last year at the moment , having Memphis central, Herrera on the bench, Jones/Blind at CB etc...

I don't mind the 4-3-3 setup this way. What I do mind is who he's picking for that 3. Shaw and Darmian are both very good defensively and are pacy to boot. We do not need 2 deep lying CMs. Even if he doesn't want Herrera as the #10, he should be played as the #8 with a pure defensive mid next to him. In such a case, you need your #10 to put a shift in on the opposition defensive mid when we lose the ball which I'm sure we can do.
 
That was an excuse last season but not this season. He has shaped the squad to suit his system, namely cutting down on strikers and bringing in two capable number sixes.

It is a shame that no ball playing defender has been signed as it looks like he will opt for Blind, nonetheless Van Gaal will come under more warranted scrutiny this season.

He certainly has signed players to suit his preferred system, but I feel that it alienates some of the existing players who performed well last season - namely Herrera and Fellaini. I would have much preferred we had just signed Schneiderlin, and continued with the backward facing triangle in midfield, and if necessary sign another #8.


I don't mind the 4-3-3 setup this way. What I do mind is who he's picking for that 3. Shaw and Darmian are both very good defensively and are pacy to boot. We do not need 2 deep lying CMs. Even if he doesn't want Herrera as the #10, he should be played as the #8 with a pure defensive mid next to him. In such a case, you need your #10 to put a shift in on the opposition defensive mid when we lose the ball which I'm sure we can do.

I pretty much agree, but it goes back to my point that he therefore is not using a system that suits our players. In Memphis, Januzaj, Mata and Young we have good options for wide forwards, and Herrera and Fellaini played well last season as box to box #8s with Carrick covering in front of the back line.

As you said, we have defensively sound FBs which should really negate the need for two dedicated holding players, and it shoehorns Herrera (and Fellaini) into a less effectively role in the side. It just feels like one step forwards, two steps back.
 
Pass pass pass pass pass pass concede pass pass pass pass pass pass concede pass pass pass pass full time.
 
for darmian i believe lvg meant he's the 2nd right back come for the team, instead of a back up to valencia. i think it's more about his english. this is a 60+ olds dutch whom english could probably not even be his 2nd language.

about the surprise signing, i guess he did a jump speak. when he talked about the strikers and was kept being asked by journos about any new signin, he already thought about into another thing (the surprise signing) and spoke it out immediately without cohesive connection to their previous conversation. the surprise signing may not be a center forward that the talk was going in line, but may also be a striker in meaningful sense. that's why i bet that surprise signing in process would be christiano ronaldo

about deploying blind as one of the CBs, apart from the player being a left footer, i think lvg would need at least one of the CBs to be good on the ball, and he's still not satisfied the level of jones or smalling in this area hence one of them was sacrificed

i understand that in UK if a defender cannot break some attacker's legs, he will never be rated. but the chance to concede a goal because of the deficiency of a defender on one-vs-one situation is indeed not high. i didn't go get figures about it but i well believe this would be minimal. >90% of times a team would concede goals because of errors here or there. be fair to blind also, i didn't see he was bad during our preseason games so far. i thought he is short but actually he's still 180cm, same as jones.
That makes a lot of sense, but Phil Jones is around 190 and not 180. I think he was 180 when he arrived at the club but I'm certain he's at least 188 now.
 
Teams park the bus everywhere. Including in England. The other big difference in England is if you use speed and relentless pressure they crack faster than your average defence. In England there is more of a level playing field to employ these types of tactics because of the less tactical nature of the footballing landscape. Decades under Ferguson confirms this, basically from what we saw last year, devolving each game into a tactical battle and/or chess match will more than likely result in more lost points than more gained points. Tireless amounts of possession and OCD control over every facet of the game basically renders the attack pointless.

Now that sample size itself is quite small, only a single season but a very telling one if you factor in Van Gaal's inability to change and adapt his ways to suit his surroundings. If we see more of the same that we saw last season then we are going to be in for a torrid time.

We don't really lack creativity in the final third, we lack pace and the desire to create pressure and dynamism. All of the front three players can all play at a high level in attack, the big difference is they have been drilled to value not losing possession in the final third over taking risks. Trying multiple avenues to attack your individual opponent is basically stepping outside of the required systems in place for you to function in this system. Their underlying logic while being coached at the moment is to not stuff it up, because if you do you will probably get dropped. If you use your instincts then you are going against the grain.

Call me negative and pessimistic but that all became clear about 3/4 of the way through the year with all the pointless fluffing about and trying to make everything work. It is almost like demolishing the building just to re-design the master bedroom with an ensuite.


Angel Di Maria is the absolute perfect example of what I am talking about. A clearly gifted and talented footballer in attack, a risk taker, a fine dribbler and a player who can put teams on the back foot. Why is he not in the fold? Why is he not one of the coveted players in the squad?

He plays naturally outside the construct of Van Gaal's system and is unwilling to adapt his game to suit it. Players like Herrera, Januzaj and Valencia are living proof that being willing to adapt your game to suit Van Gaal is more favoured than being a talented player who plays contrary to the system. RVP, Nani, Di Maria, Falcao (who tried desperately and received absolutely zero backing in terms of system play and was basically thrown tot he wolves), Zaha (albeit not good enough) and Welbeck (reaching on my part to include him admittedly) have now either not been deemed useful enough or chosen to move on.

It isn't just about creativity and pace and players pedigree and stature and who they are as a footballer. You have to be willing to adhere to the methods and style. The methods and style are almost the complete opposite to what has historically won the league over the last 20 years. Until he realizes that the OCD levels of possession, strictness and gimping of our attacking players are the main underlying problem it doesn't matter who we bring in, it will likely end the same.

First paragraph

Louis has already said we need more speed, he said he hoped Angel di Maria stayed and he can give us the speed. Also teams like Barcelona and Bayern use relentless pressure, that's exactly how Louis van Gaal wants to play, give them no rest. He also doesn't have OCD control over every facet, his attacking players he wants to be creative and spontaneous, if Robben had the ball he'd be expected to make things happen, he would be allowed to dribble past players etc. He doesn't want it to be a tactical battle, countless times in his career he has said it is dominant football, to dominate the opposition, if Barcelona played stoke on a wednesday night it wouldn't be much of a chess match.

Second paragraph

Louis has said last season it wasn't how he expects his team to play and hopefully with the right players and successful execution on the pitch we can see that this season, recently however he has said that we are still lacking creativity in the final third, he will no doubt look to solve this problem.

Third paragraph

By creativity he means creating chances, making things happen, Robben is a creative player because he can dribble past opponents and attack space even if he doesn't want to pass.

I disagree, Louis van Gaal expects his four most attacking players to be creative, they are expected to take more risks, Depay's flicks are part of his philosophy, Rooney, Mata and Young need to find the confidence to do that, they aren't told not to just like Robben or Figo was not told to keep possession over making things happen. And again you seem to be going on last season even though the manager stated numerous times that's not how his teams play, Barcelona or Bayern when he was successful with them were not how you described.

Fourth paragraph

Again you seem to be assessing Louis van Gaal's system based on last season alone, there is a reason Ajax 95 is considered one of the best of all time and it's not because they played like us, Bayern would not have done the double in his first season and champions league final if they played like us, his Barcelona side would not have won La Liga.

Fifth paragraph

He said he hopes Angel di Maria stays, it's evident he fits the profile of what he wants from his creative players, like Robben he tries to make things happen. Last season since this is his last job he uncharacteristically played it safe in the end to ensure fourth, mainly because he was lacking players in key positions and the team weren't very good at possession football in general, he wanted to get to the summer and then find players more suited to that, Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Depay are the types of players that can do what he wants.

Sixth paragraph

Already explained, he wanted to keep Angel di Maria, he clearly liked what he offered. The player wants to move and so the club let him. Herrera was playing as an 8, in Louis van Gaal's system the striker, left winger, right winger and number 10 are expected to create, the 8 is a box to box who supports both defence and attack but doesn't need to be risky in passing, he just needs to get the ball to the four creative players, Roy Keane would suit this role perfectly.

Seventh paragraph

I disagree with your assessment of how Louis van Gaal wants to play football, I don't think how we played last season is how he wants us to play, his Ajax and Barcelona sides are better examples.
 
If we start the season with Blind playing CB, Herrera on the bench and Memphis playing as a number 10, then I think that we can officially say that LVG has list the plot.

Let's just hope that our team selections and player roles during pre season were purely for experimentation purposes only.
 
If we start the season with Blind playing CB, Herrera on the bench and Memphis playing as a number 10, then I think that we can officially say that LVG has list the plot.

Let's just hope that our team selections and player roles during pre season were purely for experimentation purposes only.

Im sure we can add Valencia as RB....LVG is a strange man.
 
First paragraph

Louis has already said we need more speed, he said he hoped Angel di Maria stayed and he can give us the speed. Also teams like Barcelona and Bayern use relentless pressure, that's exactly how Louis van Gaal wants to play, give them no rest. He also doesn't have OCD control over every facet, his attacking players he wants to be creative and spontaneous, if Robben had the ball he'd be expected to make things happen, he would be allowed to dribble past players etc. He doesn't want it to be a tactical battle, countless times in his career he has said it is dominant football, to dominate the opposition, if Barcelona played stoke on a wednesday night it wouldn't be much of a chess match.

Second paragraph

Louis has said last season it wasn't how he expects his team to play and hopefully with the right players and successful execution on the pitch we can see that this season, recently however he has said that we are still lacking creativity in the final third, he will no doubt look to solve this problem.

Third paragraph

By creativity he means creating chances, making things happen, Robben is a creative player because he can dribble past opponents and attack space even if he doesn't want to pass.

I disagree, Louis van Gaal expects his four most attacking players to be creative, they are expected to take more risks, Depay's flicks are part of his philosophy, Rooney, Mata and Young need to find the confidence to do that, they aren't told not to just like Robben or Figo was not told to keep possession over making things happen. And again you seem to be going on last season even though the manager stated numerous times that's not how his teams play, Barcelona or Bayern when he was successful with them were not how you described.

Fourth paragraph

Again you seem to be assessing Louis van Gaal's system based on last season alone, there is a reason Ajax 95 is considered one of the best of all time and it's not because they played like us, Bayern would not have done the double in his first season and champions league final if they played like us, his Barcelona side would not have won La Liga.

Fifth paragraph

He said he hopes Angel di Maria stays, it's evident he fits the profile of what he wants from his creative players, like Robben he tries to make things happen. Last season since this is his last job he uncharacteristically played it safe in the end to ensure fourth, mainly because he was lacking players in key positions and the team weren't very good at possession football in general, he wanted to get to the summer and then find players more suited to that, Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Depay are the types of players that can do what he wants.

Sixth paragraph

Already explained, he wanted to keep Angel di Maria, he clearly liked what he offered. The player wants to move and so the club let him. Herrera was playing as an 8, in Louis van Gaal's system the striker, left winger, right winger and number 10 are expected to create, the 8 is a box to box who supports both defence and attack but doesn't need to be risky in passing, he just needs to get the ball to the four creative players, Roy Keane would suit this role perfectly.

Seventh paragraph

I disagree with your assessment of how Louis van Gaal wants to play football, I don't think how we played last season is how he wants us to play, his Ajax and Barcelona sides are better examples.

What Van Gaal says and what Van Gaal does are two differnt things. I tend to agree with @United again!
 
What Van Gaal says and what Van Gaal does are two differnt things. I tend to agree with @United again!

This is not true, but I get where you're coming from. Even for Dutch people van Gaal can be incredibly difficult to understand. He always talks from his POV and the knowledge he has of the situation (which is always much more than the average fan), if you don't know what he's talking about that's not his problem (no idea if he does it on purpose, probably not). He usually tries to explain what he means, but especially with his English (which is basically Dutch sentences literally translated word for word) it doesn't always make it more clear, it doesn't help that he has his own terms for certain things either. You really need to understand his view of football to know what he's talking about, and many times even I fail to comprehend what he's saying or hinting at.

I would bet all my money he does have his argumentation for everything he does, he's a perfectionist. He works out everything into fine details so I'm sure everything he does regarding team selection/tactics has a reason. Not saying we can't judge him, I disagree with some of his views too but I always try to understand the logic behind why he does certain things. It's not easy though.
 
From his actions during the pre-season I have lowered my expectations that we would be challenging for the title. We are too good now to not get top 4 so that isnt a worry. I hope we win the FA cup this season.

I don't know why he doesn't play Herrera anymore. I think I would prefer a more simple manager who doesn't have me constantly questioning him. I miss frogie
 
If we start the season with Blind playing CB, Herrera on the bench and Memphis playing as a number 10, then I think that we can officially say that LVG has list the plot.

Let's just hope that our team selections and player roles during pre season were purely for experimentation purposes only.

I'd rather judge him on the results than against fans opinions on who should play where.
 
From his actions during the pre-season I have lowered my expectations that we would be challenging for the title. We are too good now to not get top 4 so that isnt a worry. I hope we win the FA cup this season.

I don't know why he doesn't play Herrera anymore. I think I would prefer a more simple manager who doesn't have me constantly questioning him. I miss frogie

Some people constantly questioned SAF also though. I'll admit as much as i love the man even i found myself scratching my head at some of Fergie's decisions at times especially his last few years.

Welbeck on the left wing ever, why we kept playing Giggs and/or Scholes who were pushing 40 in CM in big games, Park/Rafael in midfield, swapping Rio and Vidic then swapping them back, Bebe. Probably loads more i can't remember but you get the point.
 
I'd rather judge him on the results than against fans opinions on who should play where.

True, but you have to admit that these ridiculous tactical choices put us at a disadvantage before a ball is even kicked.
 
Some people constantly questioned SAF also though. I'll admit as much as i love the man even i found myself scratching my head at some of Fergie's decisions at times especially his last few years.

Welbeck on the left wing ever, why we kept playing Giggs and/or Scholes who were pushing 40 in CM in big games, Park/Rafael in midfield, swapping Rio and Vidic then swapping them back, Bebe. Probably loads more i can't remember but you get the point.
Yes I questioned Frogie myself many times. His complete refusal to buy midfielders was very annoying. Him thinking Michael Owen and Antonio Valencia were good replacements for Ronaldo and Tevez also baffles me

But Frogie at least could grind out title victories and his transfer issues I guess can be explained to the Glazers debt. LVG has been given the biggest cheque book for all the the PL teams and its his stubbornness which inhibits us. A crime which is not forgiveable
 
I'd rather judge him on the results than against fans opinions on who should play where.
A very trivial view to take imo. He's had an initial stage of baffling decisions which cost the team a lot (his 5 at the back stage) and now it looks like he's found a new variation to fixate on (the 4-2-3-1). Man why won't he just go back to the 4-3-3 which seemed so promising -_-
 
Let's judge the manager by the results this year, not because of your man-crush getting (temporarily) benched or whether we lost a preseason game.

He might want a passer like Blind at CB, like Mascherano at Barca or Alonso at Bayern at times last year. And he might play Memphis behind the striker, oh lord how dare he, a strong quick goal scorer! What if Wenger played Henry at wing, where he was playing for Juve before getting signed. It might not work out, but it might be a great move, he certainly looked alright there during preseason.

The Caf is becoming unbearable with all the moaning. Can't recall it ever being this bad, not even during Moyes tenure. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
 
From his actions during the pre-season I have lowered my expectations that we would be challenging for the title. We are too good now to not get top 4 so that isnt a worry. I hope we win the FA cup this season.

I don't know why he doesn't play Herrera anymore. I think I would prefer a more simple manager who doesn't have me constantly questioning him. I miss frogie

I'm in this boat too now tbh. Especially if we don't make any more signings.
 
Let's judge the manager by the results this year, not because of your man-crush getting (temporarily) benched or whether we lost a preseason game.

He might want a passer like Blind at CB, like Mascherano at Barca or Alonso at Bayern at times last year. And he might play Memphis behind the striker, oh lord how dare he, a strong quick goal scorer! What if Wenger played Henry at wing, where he was playing for Juve before getting signed. It might not work out, but it might be a great move, he certainly looked alright there during preseason.

The Caf is becoming unbearable with all the moaning. Can't recall it ever being this bad, not even during Moyes tenure. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

*Process

:D
 
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