Not really. He considers us playing a 4-3-3 already and he says we will continue playing like on the tour. " We played in our shape [on tour] and played how we have to play. That's also where I have been very satisfied.”
Louis van Gaal's tactics
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Not really. He considers us playing a 4-3-3 already and he says we will continue playing like on the tour. " We played in our shape [on tour] and played how we have to play. That's also where I have been very satisfied.”
If I recall, he likes his no.10 to be more of a second forward rather than an attacking mid (Mata). He used Litmanen the same way he's using Depay now. Starting deeper than the CF but making runs ahead.
Thats why I said preaseason formation is more 4-3-3 than 4-4-2.
he considers that to be a 4-3-3? So by that logic, Memphis was playing in midfield?
Well then we're in real trouble against Spurs I'm afraid. That defence, the 2-man midfield, Mata on the wing, Memphis as a (traditionally) CF....I don't think that will work against premier league opposition in a competitive environment.
Right yeah, that makes more sense. Didn't Schneiderlin play the 2nd half as an AM in the PSG game though, I'm sure I read that somewhere but makes no sense?
If so, I'm not sure where that leaves Herrera, it's hard to decide our best CM as they all have varying talents, I would be tempted to say Carrick but with Herrera in the team we look so much more fluid going forward and can actually open teams up instead of having static movement in the centre of the pitch.
De Gea
Darmian...Smalling....Rojo...Shaw
Herrera....Schneiderlin
Di Maria........Mata........Memphis
Rooney
Other than the obvious De Gea leaving Darmian...Smalling....Rojo...Shaw
Herrera....Schneiderlin
Di Maria........Mata........Memphis
Rooney
and Di Maria gone AWOL. Looks balanced and pretty damn solid.From the players we have I would love that, but the awkward beggar won't do it. He will pack the midfield, even against a non league side in the F.A. Cup he will pack the midfield. My old granny could outrun Carrick/Bastian or Blind.De GeaOther than the obvious De Gea leaving
Darmian...Smalling....Rojo...Shaw
Herrera....Schneiderlin
Young..............Mata.........Memphis
Rooney
I think he just likes Blind becuse he can pass and help keep the ball better than Smalling. The left foot thing isnt as big a deal as we probably think it is
It's fine him being able to keep the ball. That isn't much good if you are the last line of defence and some speed merchant is sprinting past you.
De GeaOther than the obvious De Gea leaving
Darmian...Smalling....Rojo...Shaw
Herrera....Schneiderlin
Di Maria........Mata........Memphis
Rooney
Good point. That's a solid lineup by anyone's estimation....which is being severely disrupted by Di Maria and De Gea leaving.
Whatever replacement we put in goal will ruin it. The ADM part not so much.
Agree, with regards to the personnel. That said, I don't think that many of us can confidently say that if we could guarantee that those players were all here this season, LVG would regularly play a combination as strong, or offensive as that. He will come up with an underwhelming combination from our players that likely includes at least one of Young and Fellaini, and one or two out of position.
The Di Maria part more so.
Assuming an inform ADM, as opposed to what we saw for much of last year, its both. Can't blame LVG and Ed for these two wanting to move on. Its just bad luck for us.
Do you think so? If they got a Pedro, after the Ramos saga, not sure that is even going to happen, we will be fine. Will be really hard to replace DDG.
Whatever the formation might be it seems as though van gaal has become more conservative than he was last season.
The attack seems to be conservative with only a few players attacking at one point especially in the middle of the pitch. In posession the full backs seem to be a yard or two further back than before.(or maybe its just me)
We definitely need mata to come in field more often than he's doing (in posession). He has to stop huggin that touchline. He's not a winger. We also need depay on the left and a proper forward playing next to Rooney. The 4-4-1-1 gives Rooney too much work to do. It also leaves depay vulebarebale to giving up the ball to an opposition press in the middle of the pitch. He has to let the forward play alongside (if he's going to persist with a 4-4-2) and let them roam in the middle in possession for receiving the ball. We are better of doing this almost like a 4-6-0 at times and other times like a 4-4-2. It will help us in possession and also make it difficult for their mids and cbs.
The attack seems to be conservative with only a few players attacking at one point especially in the middle of the pitch. In posession the full backs seem to be a yard or two further back than before.(or maybe its just me)
We definitely need mata to come in field more often than he's doing (in posession). He has to stop huggin that touchline. He's not a winger. We also need depay on the left and a proper forward playing next to Rooney. The 4-4-1-1 gives Rooney too much work to do. It also leaves depay vulebarebale to giving up the ball to an opposition press in the middle of the pitch. He has to let the forward play alongside (if he's going to persist with a 4-4-2) and let them roam in the middle in possession for receiving the ball. We are better of doing this almost like a 4-6-0 at times and other times like a 4-4-2. It will help us in possession and also make it difficult for their mids and cbs.
As good as De Gea is, he is still 'just' a goalkeeper. Having a complete outfield 10, specifically the player you will look to to break down opposing defences every week is more important than having the best goalkeeper in the world I think.
I'd much rather have Hazard than De Gea, providing we don't have my school-team goalkeeper in goal. Ospina and Hazard would be preferable to De Gea and Young for me.
Rarely happens. Other wise JT wouldnt be the great defender he is.
Who exactly will be our wingers in that system? Young and Mata? Depay should be on the wing really.
JT is a lot better defender than Blind. Terry is just a defender. While Blind is jack of all trades, master of none.
LVG just likes to play players out of position despite having other players who are better and who play in said position. It's his thing.
If the 4-3-3 thing is true, I'm going to give myself the sliver of hope he has been experimenting in these games and nothing is set in stone. Maybe they've been training
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The thing about Mata is I always felt he was much more of a second forward and not so much of the typical creative playmaker. He always seems very comfortable going for goal himself. But maybe he prefers someone with a bit more pace to Mata and he seems to be determined to have a left footed attacker right wide slot which means Januzaj would be his only replacement there atm and LvG wants to make a striker out of him by his own words.
But I'm sure that in essence you are right LvG wanted a striker who can start from deep to play behind our number 9 which explains why he wanted Müller so badly. Reus btw should also be considered a serious option for this role but I don't think there are much more chances of getting him than getting Müller.
We played 4-3-3 with the point forward or 4-2-3-1-/4-4-1-1 whatever you wanna call it. What we have seen on tour is what we will play in competitive games as well, I just hope it will work better than it did so far.
He calls what we use now as a 4-3-3 as well as what we used last season. Just the middle 3 triangle pointed the other way.
I've given up trying to understand LvG at the moment. I can kind of understand why he played Wilson out wide with Adnan up front, and why he's playing Memphis in the middle, but I fail to understand why he's playing Jones and Blind as our two CB's with Smalling on the bench.
What I know is, LvG knows 9999 times more football than anyone on the Caf, and I'm sure he has a good reason for everything he does. What I've also noted is that he's not being honest in his press conferences. He's basically trolling the media talking about a surprise striker or something when we all know there would be no reason for him to come out and say something like that to the media if he actually was going to sign a surprise striker or whatever. Plus, he said that Darmian was bought in as a backup for Valencia. The best player in the Italian national team for the past year playing as a backup for Antonio fecking Valencia? Yeah right.
I'm giving up. Louis, keep on doing whatever you are doing. I still trust you 100% and I'm also enjoying reading hundreds of confused Caf members trying to comprehend what you're doing, so cheers for that. Just don't fecking disappoint me against Spurs on the 8th. I'm actually going to OT to see the game live, something I very rarely get the chance to do, so for the love of god, sort things out until then.
What I know is, LvG knows 9999 times more football than anyone on the Caf, and I'm sure he has a good reason for everything he does. What I've also noted is that he's not being honest in his press conferences. He's basically trolling the media talking about a surprise striker or something when we all know there would be no reason for him to come out and say something like that to the media if he actually was going to sign a surprise striker or whatever. Plus, he said that Darmian was bought in as a backup for Valencia. The best player in the Italian national team for the past year playing as a backup for Antonio fecking Valencia? Yeah right.
I'm giving up. Louis, keep on doing whatever you are doing. I still trust you 100% and I'm also enjoying reading hundreds of confused Caf members trying to comprehend what you're doing, so cheers for that. Just don't fecking disappoint me against Spurs on the 8th. I'm actually going to OT to see the game live, something I very rarely get the chance to do, so for the love of god, sort things out until then.
Van Gaal's grasp of English makes analysing anything he says a completely useless venture as he phrases things in ways that, to a native English speaker, are different to what he's thinking/means.
It's fun watching the internet and press simultaneously erupt when he says something though because they've completely misinterpreted what he's saying.
It's fun watching the internet and press simultaneously erupt when he says something though because they've completely misinterpreted what he's saying.
Have read the (excellent) OP and been thinking about the way LvG's tactics have and will work.
My thoughts are that the system we have been playing on tour will work very well indeed against top teams, and also in the Champions League. It will see us dominate possession, give little away and give our creative players the chance to score. This is especially true if we get the lead in games as the possession allows us to tire the opposition who are chasing the game and then capitalise further.
My worry is more about the lower league teams. I believe we need to be more aggressive against these teams than this system allows. Fergie won titles by ruthlessly beating the bottom 10/12 teams every game. LVG isn't Fergie but by just adding that bit more aggression I think we'll see less silly losses than last season. As a brief example, putting Herrera and Mata with one holding player would instantly give that result.
The fact is if we improved our record against lower teams (especially away from home) then we'll be title challengers.
My thoughts are that the system we have been playing on tour will work very well indeed against top teams, and also in the Champions League. It will see us dominate possession, give little away and give our creative players the chance to score. This is especially true if we get the lead in games as the possession allows us to tire the opposition who are chasing the game and then capitalise further.
My worry is more about the lower league teams. I believe we need to be more aggressive against these teams than this system allows. Fergie won titles by ruthlessly beating the bottom 10/12 teams every game. LVG isn't Fergie but by just adding that bit more aggression I think we'll see less silly losses than last season. As a brief example, putting Herrera and Mata with one holding player would instantly give that result.
The fact is if we improved our record against lower teams (especially away from home) then we'll be title challengers.
An often overlooked point.
Plus, I suspect he's actually feeding the media nonsense on purpose to a greater extent now. Trying to play mind games, or whatever it is. Why would he come out and announce our line-up against Spurs, for instance? Makes no sense.
This. What we call 4231, he calls 433 with a point forward. He said explicitly that most times Memphis will be his third midfielder.
Aye imo he's fully aware that he's not exactly William Wordsworth and he's throwing out little Vaanglish morsels for the press to get skittish over.
I remember something about him having had to focus on getting between the lines. I don't have much to go on. It was an almost offhand comment from a commentator during a match.
Litmanen was one of the young Wayne Rooney's favourite players, IIRC. Always found that interesting - not quite what you'd expect, arguably.
I remember thinking about that when LVG was first announced and people immediately concluded the pair of them would never hit it off.
Just something which struck me.
I remember thinking about that when LVG was first announced and people immediately concluded the pair of them would never hit it off.
Just something which struck me.
He has not big ideas, and his philosophy is out of date since many yrs (1999/2000 circa)
@NL Max
Having read your excellent OP how do full backs fit into to LVG's vision? He seems to like conservative, defend first attack later full backs. Also when you say he wants 4 defensive players I assume you means centrally.
Having read your excellent OP how do full backs fit into to LVG's vision? He seems to like conservative, defend first attack later full backs. Also when you say he wants 4 defensive players I assume you means centrally.
What's really mind-blowing for me is that he stripped his attacking options to some serious degree in the time when he should be focusing on building. Departures of Nani, Van Persie and Di Maria is not some small scale change. We are losing a huge chunk of CL experience right there apart from quite rich tactical options.
I'm not even thinking about Louie conforming to the actual state of our centre defensive zone. It begs for more quality options. Team needs it, he needs it, everybody wants that. No more Carrick and Blind in defense would be also a good thing.
4-3-3 is a must have and he should take a look at SAF and his consequence in trusting in his own loyalty to his tactical premise through years. It's his philosophy so why the pointless experiments ? Sometimes he makes things complicated perhaps for opponents to make reading of our game harder... but even then there's a better way to achieve it both through upcoming youth and new creative and unpredictable additions.
I'm not even thinking about Louie conforming to the actual state of our centre defensive zone. It begs for more quality options. Team needs it, he needs it, everybody wants that. No more Carrick and Blind in defense would be also a good thing.
4-3-3 is a must have and he should take a look at SAF and his consequence in trusting in his own loyalty to his tactical premise through years. It's his philosophy so why the pointless experiments ? Sometimes he makes things complicated perhaps for opponents to make reading of our game harder... but even then there's a better way to achieve it both through upcoming youth and new creative and unpredictable additions.
His tactics are fecking shite.
Keep the ball until we either...
a) Make a mistake at the back and the opposition have a chance
b) The terrible forward line lose the ball when they eventually get a forward pass
Its so easy for the opposition to counter its almost painful. Its also mind numbingly boring too watch.
Keep the ball until we either...
a) Make a mistake at the back and the opposition have a chance
b) The terrible forward line lose the ball when they eventually get a forward pass
Its so easy for the opposition to counter its almost painful. Its also mind numbingly boring too watch.
Where have these quotes on sky sports news come from that say 4-3-3 is his favoured formation and that when the process is over with a certain player we'll announce it... has there been an interview today? Or have I just missed something?
Right now our formation looks like this...
--------------Defence------------
---------MF-------------MF--------
Mata----------------------------Young
---------------Memphis----------------
----------------Rooney-----------------
There's no link between the midfield and attack. Thats where we should have a 3rd midfielder, or #10. Mata or Herrera. Memphis (who looks good on the ball) is only thinking about attacking, he's not coming deep to pick the ball up, mainly, because he's not a fecking midfielder.
--------------Defence------------
---------MF-------------MF--------
Mata----------------------------Young
---------------Memphis----------------
----------------Rooney-----------------
There's no link between the midfield and attack. Thats where we should have a 3rd midfielder, or #10. Mata or Herrera. Memphis (who looks good on the ball) is only thinking about attacking, he's not coming deep to pick the ball up, mainly, because he's not a fecking midfielder.
Didn't realise this thread was still alive, I'm thinking about making a new one once all the transfers are done. Right now I can't really predict the GK/CB/ST/winger scenario (although Pedro for Di Maria looks fecking obvious) which makes it difficult. The thing is writing a post like that takes me ages since I have trouble explaining it in English, I want to make it quality.
In the OP I said 433 with the point forwards is his preferred formation- we've seen that now. We can call it 4411 or 4231 but van Gaal calls it 433. The reason it's a bit iffy is because of the 10, he plays more as a 2nd striker then as a CAM. I thought Memphis was brought in for the LW, but I can see him as a long term 10 over Mata/Herrera which I thought would be playing there. For now it might just be an experiment which can be dropped after a few bad performances (mainly losing possesion too much in the MF) but I think he has big plans with Memphis. This formations has it's problems (like @Sam mentioned the 2 forwards can look very disjointed) but I won't go to deep into discussing this yet. It was my birthday yesterday and I'm still hangover
Like I said in the OP the 10 is very important, in an ideal van Gaal scenario he's likely to score and assist more than the striker does. Memphis is clinical, creative and offensive wise he can do everything on top of being built like a tank. Defensively he hasn't done much in his carreer (he usually had freedom) but when he was tasked with defending at the NT or vs big opponents as Ajax/Zenit/AC Milan he defended superbly, it's not his strong point yet mind. I don't think van Gaal will give up on this experiment soon, Memphis is as complete going forward as you'll find at 21 but he can still be Schweinsteigered at his age. It's not looking likely that he will be a bit-part player in his first season, which I can understand. The lad is mature enough for the PL.
@Physiocrat
Yes, the defensive players I mentioned are centrally because the fullbacks are also part of the attacking gameplan.
The fullbacks need to be good at everything basically. He wants tactical fullbacks who can perform his gameplan, not just bomb forward in the hope that they'll receive a pass. They need to defend first and foremost, but also go forward per instruction. I'd say keeping possesion/being good defensively>bombing forward is what he prefers yes.
In the OP I said 433 with the point forwards is his preferred formation- we've seen that now. We can call it 4411 or 4231 but van Gaal calls it 433. The reason it's a bit iffy is because of the 10, he plays more as a 2nd striker then as a CAM. I thought Memphis was brought in for the LW, but I can see him as a long term 10 over Mata/Herrera which I thought would be playing there. For now it might just be an experiment which can be dropped after a few bad performances (mainly losing possesion too much in the MF) but I think he has big plans with Memphis. This formations has it's problems (like @Sam mentioned the 2 forwards can look very disjointed) but I won't go to deep into discussing this yet. It was my birthday yesterday and I'm still hangover
Like I said in the OP the 10 is very important, in an ideal van Gaal scenario he's likely to score and assist more than the striker does. Memphis is clinical, creative and offensive wise he can do everything on top of being built like a tank. Defensively he hasn't done much in his carreer (he usually had freedom) but when he was tasked with defending at the NT or vs big opponents as Ajax/Zenit/AC Milan he defended superbly, it's not his strong point yet mind. I don't think van Gaal will give up on this experiment soon, Memphis is as complete going forward as you'll find at 21 but he can still be Schweinsteigered at his age. It's not looking likely that he will be a bit-part player in his first season, which I can understand. The lad is mature enough for the PL.
@Physiocrat
Yes, the defensive players I mentioned are centrally because the fullbacks are also part of the attacking gameplan.
The fullbacks need to be good at everything basically. He wants tactical fullbacks who can perform his gameplan, not just bomb forward in the hope that they'll receive a pass. They need to defend first and foremost, but also go forward per instruction. I'd say keeping possesion/being good defensively>bombing forward is what he prefers yes.
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