Fergie was easily worth ten points a season with his man management skills. I think a great managers influence was proved when we last won the league. That was a pretty mediocre team, but he pushed and cajoled them all the way.
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Not a hope in hell.
Wow, you're on another planet. That's such a strange sentence. Man management is clearly not the same as tactics, and I clearly described it as part of a managers job. It's right there in the name!
I'm walking away slowly....
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"We'll try to make it difficult for Barcelona, then we should aspire to their level."
"James, stick to the wing and cross it"
"They keep telling me that Ronaldo is that good"
After the blood has finally drained from his face.
The claim I am debating is that Everton with Ancelotti would win it. If the quality of the manager trumps the quality of the players as a factor then without needing transfers Ancelotti would win the CL with Everton's team.
Surely a more plausible proposal would be that a top manager can squeeze another 10% out of a group of players. But the determining factor is still the quality of that group of players.
If Ancelotti gets another 10% out of Reals squad then that may be enough to get them over the line ahead of their peers. Without that 10% they win nothing.
Maybe you could plop Ancelotti into any old average eam, and they could go on a cup run or something. But could he turn that average bunch of players into consistent winners? No he'd need spending to get quality players to reach the top consistently.
Van Gaal has clearly seen that he was left with a weak squad and needs to spend big to fix it. He sees a situation beyond just better coaching and tactics. Getting 10% more out of shit would still be shit.
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I can't see why anyone's taken issue with what you've said in your posts.
How would van Gaal be doing with the team that lost to Swansea?
He'd have lost more games, and would probably be on course to lose his job at the end of the season.
This isn't FIFA, so you still need to buy players who complement each other.
Real Madrid's Galacticos (which is always the go to argument) clearly weren't a group of players who were bought systematically or who complemented each other.
I don't even see what Madrid have to do with it. You said the quality of players is still the most important factor. Not that having all of the best players ensures success.
Again, there's nothing wrong with what you've said.
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Mourinho didn't win the league last season because he had no strikers. If he came here with the sqaud of last season, he still wouldn't have won it as he would be without a midfield or a defence, at most times. We wouldn't have been 7th, but he wouldn't have won the league. SAF was a genius to get that 20th win, but he still left a squad that had been neglected for too long. Jose like LvG would have had to spend loads. Jose was getting his team together last season and has added the final pieces of Costa and Fabregas this season. We are in the same boat and it will take January and next summer to get the squad LvG is satisfied with. I am a lot more confident that things will come good. Moyes just made me despair.
It's the manager fetish on here. The idea that you could put Klopp or Mourinho in charge of Swansea's players and they'd be title contenders is a strong one. Tactics and "philosophy" trump everything. I blame the likes of Jonathan Wilson for making football seem like a game of chess. Just put the right strategy in place and you will win no matter who your players are.
Van Gaal doesn't believe it. And I am certain Mourinho is too smart to think that too. They know a weak squad of players when they see it. They'll get that extra 10% out of players. But they want to get that extra 10% out of quality players.
Yeah, I think that's a fair post.
Yep, spot on. And I think the board will support LVG no matter what happens this season. What last season proved, for whatever the rights and wrongs of Moyes being manager, was that the squad was in one hell of a need of an overhaul. That just doesn't happen in one transfer window (ignoring a bit the January one because that mostly flatters to decieve).
By this time next year I think we might see De Gea as the last remaining holdover in the starting XI from the squad Van Gaal took over (assuming we hold on to him). Maybe Jones and Rooney would still be there. Maybe. And that would be a remarkable rebuilding job if it was the case.
I think SAF hung on to players for too long hoping they were going to come good. I still have hopes for Jones, Rooney will be going nowhere, since he has been missing, I am appreciating his work more. For all Rio, Vidic and Evra were good servants he stopped buying the best, apart from RVP. After Ronaldo it was like he became obsessed with getting the next Ronaldo. There will only be one Ronaldo and the team has suffered for it. Buying players who had the odd good game but were not consistant. LvG will soon get rid of players who will not provide that consistancy.
I like Jones, and I'm hoping he will get there. He just keeps on getting injuries. I like Rooney too, but maybe Van Gaal will have other ideas.
I agree with everything VG has done so far as regards players in and players out, except sending Welbeck to Arsenal. But yes, it's good to have someone who has no problem moving underperforming players on. I just hope he'll be as ruthless with Van Persie tomorrow....
you are walking away from your keyboard?
i would have just closed the tab but guess that's an earthling thing to do.It's the same with people who don't want to give Guardiola any credit - "anyone could manage that team" it's a big lie. Keeping big egos in check is a hard job in itself, making world class players believe in your style is also difficult. A bunch of world class individuals also have to play with understanding and organization, that job also belongs to the manager.
No, it was not smashed in 2 games, that's not near enough sample for you to come to such rushed conclusion. We still looked very good in pre-season, while Moyes team was bad all through. How many years of spending did it take Real Madrid to win the UCL? That's a better sample, immediately they got in managers like Jose and Carlo, they started becoming more formidable. The team of last season was not crap, it was a good team with very clear weaknesses. Or do you mind explaining to me how Ferguson won titles after titles, because for the past 5-6 yrs I've never looked at our first 11 and thought it was better than City or Chelsea.
No, it was not smashed in 2 games, that's not near enough sample for you to come to such rushed conclusion. We still looked very good in pre-season, while Moyes team was bad all through. How many years of spending did it take Real Madrid to win the UCL? That's a better sample, immediately they got in managers like Jose and Carlo, they started becoming more formidable. The team of last season was not crap, it was a good team with very clear weaknesses. Or do you mind explaining to me how Ferguson won titles after titles, because for the past 5-6 yrs I've never looked at our first 11 and thought it was better than City or Chelsea.
If management is more important than players, then why did Van Gaal waste all that money on Di Maria, Blind , Rojo and Falcao? Surely the squad he inherited wouid have strolled to the top 4, if not the titie, with him at the helm? Why didn't he fancy his chances of turning Cleverley and Welbeck into greats?
There's so many things wrong with this statement, I don't even know where to start. First, managers look at a team and see if certain players fit into what they want to do, it's not about turning Cleverly and Welbeck into greats or stupid statement like that. We still have bulk of the old team here by the way, why no mention of them? That's the problem with your argument, it's so one-sided and one suspects that you are not a fan of LVG, so, anything he does would be because he signed Di Maria and co. Not because he is a good manager who can make individuals play as a team [something that managers actually do]. Of course having good players is very important, everyone accepts that, but don't try to convince anyone here that having a good manager isn't as important or more important.
I see almost the same thing. De Gea, Rooney, and perhaps Rafael will still be around but after we clear away the last of the deadwood (Anderson, Young, Valencia, etc.) in the next 1 or 2 transfer windows, I am expecting all of Smalling, Evans, and possibly Jones to be eventually shipped off. I think they are all capable players but they are injury-prone and without European matches to play in, LVG won't have time to deal with a revolving door in the CB positions. The 3 backs, as it is, had their development aborted by all of the injuries and LVG might already judge them as lost causes.
I also expect Fellaini to be sold. Mata I'm not sure about. van Persie I'm also not sure about but he only has 1 or 2 good seasons left IMO and that's if he stays healthy.
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Massive game tomorrow after today's results.
Hopefully Old Trafford will be rocking.
Hopefully Old Trafford will be rocking.
a football manager is just like a good chief. when he steps in a kitchen, he just checks out what food inside the fridge and the seasoning ingredients available. he would also check out the utensil under his disposal so he can decide how to pan out the dish.
a good chief can always make a reasonable good dish with materials given.
after going around and getting himself familiar with the kitchen then a good chief can start to replenish and upgrade the kitchen. he can decide to dispose some food stored for a while inside the fridge which has started to deteriorate and has given out poison substance. he can replace them by fresh meat shopped from the market. he can also bring in the seasonings to pan out his favorite dish and even decide to install a bigger pan for partying.
and a lousy cook is always a lousy cook. a lousy cook would pan out a crap dish no matter how are the conditions. even having the kitchen upgraded and buying in the most expensive food won't make him a better cook.
a good chief can always make a reasonable good dish with materials given.
after going around and getting himself familiar with the kitchen then a good chief can start to replenish and upgrade the kitchen. he can decide to dispose some food stored for a while inside the fridge which has started to deteriorate and has given out poison substance. he can replace them by fresh meat shopped from the market. he can also bring in the seasonings to pan out his favorite dish and even decide to install a bigger pan for partying.
and a lousy cook is always a lousy cook. a lousy cook would pan out a crap dish no matter how are the conditions. even having the kitchen upgraded and buying in the most expensive food won't make him a better cook.
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I think the players believe in him anyway, but winning a game like this would do wonders for our players confidence.
lol nice analogy, my own one is: when you are playing a video football game such as FIFA, having players with higher ratings help but it is still down to the skill of the player controlling them
We're playing good football, we're creating a lot of chances but we're not taking them! We're ruining a game's work with a couple of mandatory individual defensive errors and it's so frustrating right now. 
Big big game for him, a win is a must, otherwise I feel the media and fans might start questioning him.
We're already 2 points behind Liverpool with 2 tough games to come, it could be worse. If Liverpool are having a bad season, then what are we??
We're already 2 points behind Liverpool with 2 tough games to come, it could be worse. If Liverpool are having a bad season, then what are we??
Comparing the two team, almost everyone is backing us to lose. So I don't see how the fans and media can question him if we lose. It's the points dropped prior to this that are questionable.
Why is our manager making back page headlines like
"Jose is my master"
We're playing them in a few hours, why would he say that?
"Jose is my master"
We're playing them in a few hours, why would he say that?
Yes the points we lost earlier are questionable but he can hide behind the fact that he openly asked for a 3 month period for his 'Philosophy' to be implemented. The 3 month period is over and first real test awaits him now, questions will be asked if lose this game.
Would be utterly stupid to question him on this game if we lost. He never said he's going to win every game after the 3 month period.
Of course, otherwise he would accept a disadvantage to compensate for with his managerial skills, instead of adding performance with those skills. If you are really good a tuning race engines you don't start with a 2-litrer engine while the others have a 3 litre engine, because you want to beat them, showing off how good you are at tuning is not the main goal. Engine size is a bigger factor in power than tuning, but when they all have about the same engine size, it's the tuning that makes the difference between winning and losing. That's not different when 'tuning' football teams, the spending is to get an engine that's competitive in size, the tuning is aimed at gaining an advantage.
Sometimes the quality of the squad is not really competitive, but the manager compensates for that because he doesn't have the means to change that. Van Gaal managed to do that in 92, 95, 96, 2009, 2013 and 2014. Mourinho managed to do that in 2003 and 2004. Now Van Gaal is at the biggest club in the world, so he has the quality of the squad to the level of the rivals, and then add to that with his managerial skills. Adding isn't very different from compensating, it's just a bit harder to make the same amount of difference.
You can only imagine reaction if Moyes said that.
The headlines are taking the quote out of context. He doesn't mean he feels inferior to Jose or anything like that. So don't take it the wrong way. The British press are always twisting words to fit their narrative.
Did he actually say that? Can't find any links
Well they should start questioning him. I'm sorry but our performances have been so poor, bar QPR.
Hanging on for dear life at home against west ham (granted we had 10 men), LUCKY to win against Everton thanks to de gea's heroics, yet to win away all season!!!
Not being negative for the sake of it or saying that LVG needs to go, far from it. But its gotten to a point where his so called 'philosophy' has to start showing results in terms of wins! Look at Southampton, half their squad decimated yet they're playing so well. What's our excuse?
Everyone's harping on about Liverpool having a shit season, but they're two points ahead of us having played more difficult fixtures. We've got two difficult games coming up which we could well lose both. So if Liverpools season so far is being classified as shit, what's ours??
I will gladly have my slice of humble pie if we beat Chelsea and get something against City - but I seriously doubt it! Just have no faith in the team or LVG right now
I understand what you're saying and I agree that the results are questionable. Just that tonight's result, if we lose, should be excluded from that criticism. There is no denying that we've been poor so far.
Reading this article about it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...remier-League-to-be-Jose-Mourinhos-equal.html
He doesn't say "Jose is my master". He is asked if Mourinho could consider himself superior to Van Gaal, and Van Gaal replied that he could as he has won titles in more countries and in a shorter amount of time than Van Gaal.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...remier-League-to-be-Jose-Mourinhos-equal.html
He doesn't say "Jose is my master". He is asked if Mourinho could consider himself superior to Van Gaal, and Van Gaal replied that he could as he has won titles in more countries and in a shorter amount of time than Van Gaal.
Rodgers is in his third season with Liverpool.
Louis van Gaal is in his first.
I doubt Louis van Gaal will be performing like Liverpool in his third season with the club.
A new team based on a shattered team.
He didn't say that. He said Jose was always special and it wasn't him who made him the manager he is today. He went on to say that Jose always had his eyes open and wanted to learn and that's why he is where he is now. The headline probably refers to Jose calling LvG his 'master' and LvG playing this down. They both went on to say the match is the most important thing and they both want to win.
This is nothing abnormal, Wenger and Fergie used to say positive things about each other before the more recent matches against Arsenal so why is this any different? As long as LvG isn't up there saying we're aspiring to be Man City, I don't care what he says about another manger and I wouldn't if it were Moyes either.
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