I'm not sure they do. He did real damage to the club.
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Moyes turned us into a laughing stock. Other teams still have the fear that LvG will all of a sudden get this team on a long winning run. They knew Moyes wouldn't. It will be interesting to see if they can keep the back 4 playing well and in one piece or if he will sign someone in January.
I'm nearly sure we'll sign someone in January. Probably Vlaar.
I know that under SAF in the latter years it wasnt always great but I think he had a perfect mix of winning and good football. I think with the new players some of you are exaggerating things a little. Yes it is a lot better than last season, but I still think United arent that dangerous, even with the supposedly dangerous players all on. Ironically this United kind of reminds me of us 2012/2013 under RDM and Benitez.
I actually agree with this. Id probably give him the next four games, ish, just because of the nature of the games, without gettign on his back too much about the results. That takes us to nearly the start of December. At around that point, some time in December or going into the New Year, we need to start seeing quite significant improvements.
FWIW I dont really hold Moyes particularly to blame for our poor form at the moment. Our confidence is still pretty shot but I dont really blame Moyes for that, a quick fix manager could have got us winning by now. But Van Gaal was never about the quick fix, he has tried to deconstruct us and then put us back together again with a different mentality, he talked about changing the way we think about the game and the way we make decisions on the football pitch. He said it would take time. So I put the fact we are still looking a bit disjointed down to that.
Plus I think we should have signed another, more experienced defender. Even if we had done that instead of signing Falcao, I think we'd have been better of investing the money there.
Agree with you here.
Don't agree that our football was very good under Sir Alex in his last year. Ruthless though.
If anything it has been underplayed. He's set us back years.
I'd argue the underinvestment for a good few years caught up with us and did that more than anything or anyone, but that's for another thread.
It played its part, yes.
The lack of investment after Ronaldo certainly weakened us from guaranteed title challenger status but you can't blame the lack of investment purely on SAF. Moyes was left money and all he bought was Fellaini, that was criminal.
Well, I'd rather win games as well but if we're going to be shite I'd rather we go down the current route than the turgid football of last season.
Agree with that. We should have had Benatia wrapped up long before Bayern got involved. Benatia was available at the start of the transfer window because City had agreed on a price for him as a back up to Mangala.
Not many top defenders are available right now, i still think LvG needs to bring in a specialist defensive coach and knock some heads. Smalling, Jones and Evans are not bad defenders, but they are making some stupid mistakes.
Lack of some better defenders and the seeming demise and faith in RVP is mystifying. The facts are .............. i'll say it , a pretty piss poor job so far , against piss poor opposition. I still think he is the man , not just at the moment.
Nice ad hoc hypothesis in order to now blame Moyes for LVs failings.
Well, as many have said, it's not like we are amazing to watch, but the signs are good so far. I don't think anyone has said we're amazing or anything like that, what we're saying is that our football has improved, there's a willingness to keep possession better and attack. The signs are good.
I seriously feel that even with the money we've spent we are worse this year than we were last year.
Yes we can score a goal but absolutely useless teams like Leicester are tearing us open at will. I can't for the life of me understand this tactic of sitting back and letting the opposition have uncontested possession of the ball. It gives them all the time in the world to pick pick out defense splitting passes that leave us wide open to attack.
So to sum it up I'm totally unimpressed with our start to the season and I'm cringing while waiting to see what happens when we play a real team next Sunday. I don't think it's going to be pretty.
Yes we can score a goal but absolutely useless teams like Leicester are tearing us open at will. I can't for the life of me understand this tactic of sitting back and letting the opposition have uncontested possession of the ball. It gives them all the time in the world to pick pick out defense splitting passes that leave us wide open to attack.
So to sum it up I'm totally unimpressed with our start to the season and I'm cringing while waiting to see what happens when we play a real team next Sunday. I don't think it's going to be pretty.
We're eight games into the league campaign. If you want to ignore the damage Moyes did then do so, but I will give you a list of mistakes we still suffer from now if you really want.
Rival supporters are desperate to see Van Gaal fail, a lot more so than Moyes, of which they simply expected and subsequently mocked. It will take the length of his contract to get us sorted, back near where we were, in my opinion, and as long as the football improves then I'm happy to give him that time.
If we accept that the squad SAF left behind was good enough to win the league, then Moyes has set us back years by managing to drain away confidences, remove our fear factor, broke many negative records and disrupting the players' mentalities. And then it follows that LVG has a large task to overturn that deficit. It is always easier to tear things down then build them up. Moyes brought us down in 10 months, LVG will need a lot more than that to rebuild.
If we accept that the squad SAF left behind was shambolic, then Moyes was simply not competent enough to uplift the squad and allowed the club to mean-revert to their "natural levels". Then it follows that if SAF is basically a one-off manager, LVG while competent will need time to raise a "shambolic" squad to suitably competent levels - something that will take time.
If we take the view that the squad SAF left behind was good but declining, that means that Moyes did little to arrest the decline and plug any gaps. As we see from his dithering in the transfer markets, he appeared rather inept at identifying and going after suitable targets. It then follows that if the players were indeed in decline, then it is logical to assume that they have declined further (afterall they are a year older and have suffered under a manager out of depth). Thus it is also fair to say that LVG is simply not only plugging the gaps of last season but the gaps of the last 2 seasons (or more if you believe SAF didn't do enough to replenish the squad in his final years). To arrest 2 years of decline and integrate a large number of new players take time and LVG is moving ahead in a planned, progressive fashion.
All just points to the fact that LVG needs time and 8 games into the season is not enough to judge. The good thing is that we are seeing general improvement. Yes, we haven't covered ourselves with glory. But the eyes can see that we are playing better football. We have better possession on average than last year. So far it seems we have allowed opponents fewer corners and fewer shots on targets (unfortunately they seem to be converted). We hear less about player leaking line-ups, hear more about players enjoying training but needing to get used to new concepts. This indicates a competent man in control of things. Contrast a man in Moyes that take a title-winning squad and turns them into 7th place versus a man in LVG that takes a squad with no expectations at the World Cup to the semi-finals. Let's not forget injuries - it is not an excuse, but a valid reason for instability and poor form.
If we accept that the squad SAF left behind was shambolic, then Moyes was simply not competent enough to uplift the squad and allowed the club to mean-revert to their "natural levels". Then it follows that if SAF is basically a one-off manager, LVG while competent will need time to raise a "shambolic" squad to suitably competent levels - something that will take time.
If we take the view that the squad SAF left behind was good but declining, that means that Moyes did little to arrest the decline and plug any gaps. As we see from his dithering in the transfer markets, he appeared rather inept at identifying and going after suitable targets. It then follows that if the players were indeed in decline, then it is logical to assume that they have declined further (afterall they are a year older and have suffered under a manager out of depth). Thus it is also fair to say that LVG is simply not only plugging the gaps of last season but the gaps of the last 2 seasons (or more if you believe SAF didn't do enough to replenish the squad in his final years). To arrest 2 years of decline and integrate a large number of new players take time and LVG is moving ahead in a planned, progressive fashion.
All just points to the fact that LVG needs time and 8 games into the season is not enough to judge. The good thing is that we are seeing general improvement. Yes, we haven't covered ourselves with glory. But the eyes can see that we are playing better football. We have better possession on average than last year. So far it seems we have allowed opponents fewer corners and fewer shots on targets (unfortunately they seem to be converted). We hear less about player leaking line-ups, hear more about players enjoying training but needing to get used to new concepts. This indicates a competent man in control of things. Contrast a man in Moyes that take a title-winning squad and turns them into 7th place versus a man in LVG that takes a squad with no expectations at the World Cup to the semi-finals. Let's not forget injuries - it is not an excuse, but a valid reason for instability and poor form.
A thing I don't like is that Van Gaal seems a bit rigid in not wanting to press too high up the pitch, in order to have space in behind to exploit. It makes sense, but when we're the far stronger team I'd like to see us really pressing hard and forcing teams into mistake.
If we'd been up on West Brom's defense, I think they'd have succumbed to the pressure, though maybe we'd have had the same sort of thing as happened against Leicester happen and Berahino and his pace would have meant a hat-trick on the counter with the space up against a high line.
We have to find a way to get the ball moving into the middle more than we have been, too. Not sure why Mata couldn't get the ball in better spots during that game.
If we'd been up on West Brom's defense, I think they'd have succumbed to the pressure, though maybe we'd have had the same sort of thing as happened against Leicester happen and Berahino and his pace would have meant a hat-trick on the counter with the space up against a high line.
We have to find a way to get the ball moving into the middle more than we have been, too. Not sure why Mata couldn't get the ball in better spots during that game.
Sir Alex Ferguson: Louis van Gaal is a formidable manager... and Ryan Giggs can help him to understand Manchester United's inner workings
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...stand-Manchester-United-s-inner-workings.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...stand-Manchester-United-s-inner-workings.html
Its crazy that we are conceding less shots per game under Van Gaal than last season but conceding more goals. Have our opponents just become sharp shooters all of a sudden? Even against West Brom...Sessegnon will try and score as he did against us on Monday again, and 9 times out of 10 he'll shank it. Has De Gea's net got magnets in it?
It's become a bit of a habit of ours where generally average players are scoring what we would consider unnatural goals against us - Sessegnon for example. Charlie Adam last season for Stoke etc.
That stat is badly skewed thanks to that freak game against Leicester. 8 games is a way too small sample size anyway. Would be very interested in a similar comparison around Christmas
I put that down to our high line. Once they get through on goal, they tend to do so in acres of space and with lots of time to pick a shot.
That will skew the total goals conceded stat but not the shots/goals stat. Unless we were conceding in really atypical types of goal in that game (which didn't seem to be the case)
Yup it's the shots/goals stat that I was referring to. Over a season (or even half a season), that stat would smooth out but a freak results can widely skew it in an 8 game sample size.
Excited for him to play Fellaini as an attacking mid against Chelsea. It is funny that lately we seem to be reverting to the Moyes' tactic of just repeatedly sending crosses in.
I think that was largely the case because Di Maria was playing out wide on Monday. Since he's our most talented player, we were looking to get the ball to him as often as we possibly could. Since he was out wide, he naturally then reverted to crossing it. The positive was that, unlike with the likes of Young and Valencia operating hopelessly on the wings under Moyes, Di Maria's a superb crosser of the ball and can actually cause the opposition problems with his crosses.
Obviously though, I don't want us to be too reliant on that style of play and hope Di Maria's generally deployed in a more central role.
Has it got anything to do with decisions, though?
I agree with your sentiment, but you do wonder if at times having an elite footballing royal (Van Gaal) on the touchline might make a difference in decisions going for/against us.
I noticed a trend, and it's worrying - the majority who are criticizing LVG now after 8 games were the very ones making excuses for Moyes and willing to go a few seasons of finishing outside the top four while he "grew into the job". I find that strange.
I personally find it refreshing how Van Gaal leaves the players to do their jobs until he gets them again at half-time.
Just my opinion but I reckon in the long-term it proves better for the players (or at least shows him clearly who the mentally weak ones are.)
Most definitely, and it's blatant.
Dunno about it being 'worrying' though...more funny than anything else.
From Football365
(Not really a piece on LvG's philosophy or tactics or Utd. Just a piece of how he comes across on TV.)
(Not really a piece on LvG's philosophy or tactics or Utd. Just a piece of how he comes across on TV.)
Bayern Munich winger Arjen Robben says Jose Mourinho and Louis van Gaal honed his mind and body
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...d-Louis-van-Gaal-honed-his-mind-and-body.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...d-Louis-van-Gaal-honed-his-mind-and-body.html
This i agree with.
One thing that has surprised me is the absence of the ironman persona with which I oafishly assumed he would strut around. There's a softness to him so far, compounded by that stillness on the bench. For me, too, the disappointing perception that he is either cavalier or complacent about dropping points as we transition in a way I didn't expect.
This surprised me to, at the world cup he seemed very animated on the touch line but here he has looked reserved.
Wait, what? Who the hell suggested we go "a few seasons" outside the top four while Moyes cut his teeth?
The most patient people on here last season were saying a single season outside the top four was acceptable. This was generally met with scorn from people who said "he inherited a title-winning team" but not one person on here ever said we could faff around in the Europa places for a few seasons while Moyes learned how to manage. Don't make shit up, just to score points.
Speaking as someone who definitely went out of his way to urge people to be more patient with Moyes the fact that hindsight has proven I was wrong to do so makes me less, rather than more, willing to cut his successor the same amount of slack. That's obvious though, surely? What's "strange" about it?
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