Looks like Tuchel turned us down, not the other way around according to BILD

How is it rotten at the moment? We just had an ownership change and cleared out a bunch of deadwood. Brought in new players demanded by the manager. How is the club to be blamed for this shitshow? The manager is incapable of motivating these players, set them up well defensively.. this is the first time i firmly believe that the manager is out of his depth
Accepted we’ve had the first major change for years, but the club and its top leaders are the common denominator over the last 11 years. We’ve tried everything, club legends, tacticians, been-there-done-that’s, bringing through youth in the squad or buying big names. Nothing is fecking working.

Why?
 
I was advocating for Tuchel in spring, but after seeing how liberated Bayern are from him, and his entourage briefing fecking BILD how he 'turned us down', I say feck Tuchel. The ship has sailed for him. He can go grow a beard and have a joint podcast with his twin Russell Brand for all I care.
 
I don't think INEOS can really be blamed for the crapshoot with ETH.

Berrada hadn't even started until after the FA Cup final. The whole leadership structure have barely even got their feet under their desks at this point. They've already had a ton of deadwood players that they've managed to get rid of, and by the sounds of it they did speak to other managers in the off season.

A decade's worth of neglect isn't going to be miraculously overturned in the space of a couple of months.

I'm sure they are well aware of ETH's failings. If he's not gone in the next few months he's definitely gone in the summer.
 
I don't think INEOS can really be blamed for the crapshoot with ETH.

Berrada hadn't even started until after the FA Cup final. The whole leadership structure have barely even got their feet under their desks at this point. They've already had a ton of deadwood players that they've managed to get rid of, and by the sounds of it they did speak to other managers in the off season.

A decade's worth of neglect isn't going to be miraculously overturned in the space of a couple of months.

I'm sure they are well aware of ETH's failings. If he's not gone in the next few months he's definitely gone in the summer.
keeping EtH until summer would be absolutely asinine. Would mean a whole season of pretty much bottom half footy, toxic as hell environment, and just a throwaway european campaign. Shit even last year we only had the cup run due to some crazy luck
 
I don't think INEOS can really be blamed for the crapshoot with ETH.

Berrada hadn't even started until after the FA Cup final. The whole leadership structure have barely even got their feet under their desks at this point. They've already had a ton of deadwood players that they've managed to get rid of, and by the sounds of it they did speak to other managers in the off season.

A decade's worth of neglect isn't going to be miraculously overturned in the space of a couple of months.

I'm sure they are well aware of ETH's failings. If he's not gone in the next few months he's definitely gone in the summer.
Keeping ETH until the summer is compounding one failure with another even bigger one.
 
I don't think INEOS can really be blamed for the crapshoot with ETH.

Berrada hadn't even started until after the FA Cup final. The whole leadership structure have barely even got their feet under their desks at this point. They've already had a ton of deadwood players that they've managed to get rid of, and by the sounds of it they did speak to other managers in the off season.

A decade's worth of neglect isn't going to be miraculously overturned in the space of a couple of months.

I'm sure they are well aware of ETH's failings. If he's not gone in the next few months he's definitely gone in the summer.
But the signings we made look heavily influence by ten hag and its hard to be confident they will fit in under another manager, which just seeks incredibly stupid. The decision to retain him was alway most likely to end in more of the same
 
But the signings we made look heavily influence by ten hag and its hard to be confident they will fit in under another manager, which just seeks incredibly stupid. The decision to retain him was alway most likely to end in more of the same
The only signing I would say that about is maybe Zirkzee. The others are good players who can fit under most managers. It is still to early to say anything about Ugarte I feel.
 
The only signing I would say that about is maybe Zirkzee. The others are good players who can fit under most managers. It is still to early to say anything about Ugarte I feel.
I think even Zirkzee can be a really good fit in the right system.
 
Yeah starting all over with a new Frankenstein of signings would really help us right now.
Who so ever we get should work with the squad we have and should not be dictating the direction of rebuild .

Honestly despite the narrative that our window was Ten Hag driven this time around as well and next manager would have hard time undoing the mess I don't buy that we at the moment have pretty decent squad that should be doing lot better than we are doing .
 
Who so ever we get should work with the squad we have and should not be dictating the direction of rebuild .

Honestly despite the narrative that our window was Ten Hag driven this time around as well and next manager would have hard time undoing the mess I don't buy that we at the moment have pretty decent squad that should be doing lot better than we are doing .
Of course we haven’t. Is anyone really believing that? Even in the summer the general consensus was that this takes many windows to build.

Eth is probably not the right answer, but we’re only in window 1 out of 5 of the rebuild. Probably around window 3 (next summer) there should be a more clear path.

Rome wasn’t build in a day and suffering is part of the process towards building a succesful team. Trust the proces, not necessarily the manager.
 
Who would you appoint?
In order:
Alonso (unrealistic)
Nagelsmann (slightly unrealistic)
Emery (realistic if thrown a bag of money too)
Poch
Tuchel (if he doesn’t have a veto/great involvement on transfers)

I think I’ll even take Poch over Tuchel just because he develops the type of players we have more than Tuchel. Let’s be real: we cant possibly go for the title this year or next year, it first comes when we’ve developed the talent we have. Developing Garnacho, Amad and Zirkzee to go to next level probably takes 2 years. I’d trust the other 3 managers way more than Tuchel in doing so. Getting in Poch for 1-2 years is cool with me, as we wont win anything of note anyways imo. After 1-2 years, better manager options emerge again, and then you move on from Poch. I’d prefer Emery though, but from the easily attainable managers then Poch over Tuchel.
 
In order:
Alonso (unrealistic)
Nagelsmann (slightly unrealistic)
Emery (realistic if thrown a bag of money too)
Poch
Tuchel (if he doesn’t have a veto/great involvement on transfers)

I think I’ll even take Poch over Tuchel just because he develops the type of players we have more than Tuchel. Let’s be real: we cant possibly go for the title this year or next year, it first comes when we’ve developed the talent we have. Developing Garnacho, Amad and Zirkzee to go to next level probably takes 2 years. I’d trust the other 3 managers way more than Tuchel in doing so. Getting in Poch for 1-2 years is cool with me, as we wont win anything of note anyways imo. After 1-2 years, better manager options emerge again, and then you move on from Poch.
But if poch won a trophy or 2 you know how the Story goes. He’d have bought himself another couple of years. We give managers more time than they deserve. We can’t think short term, we need to go for a manager that can develop us and potentially challenge. That guy needs to be the same guy, Alonso, Nagelsmann, Inzaghi or even Amorim should be the 4 we target.
 
In order:
Alonso (unrealistic)
Nagelsmann (slightly unrealistic)
Emery (realistic if thrown a bag of money too)
Poch
Tuchel (if he doesn’t have a veto/great involvement on transfers)

I think I’ll even take Poch over Tuchel just because he develops the type of players we have more than Tuchel. Let’s be real: we cant possibly go for the title this year or next year, it first comes when we’ve developed the talent we have. Developing Garnacho, Amad and Zirkzee to go to next level probably takes 2 years. I’d trust the other 3 managers way more than Tuchel in doing so. Getting in Poch for 1-2 years is cool with me, as we wont win anything of note anyways imo. After 1-2 years, better manager options emerge again, and then you move on from Poch. I’d prefer Emery though, but from the easily attainable managers then Poch over Tuchel.

Don't think we have that bag of money to lure Emery, would you include Inzaghi, Amorim or Xavi on shortlist. Pretty certain that Pochettino has agreed to take over USA now anyway. I see that we both have Alonso and Nagelsmann as top 2 targets but neither realistic for a myriad of reasons.
 
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Accepted we’ve had the first major change for years, but the club and its top leaders are the common denominator over the last 11 years. We’ve tried everything, club legends, tacticians, been-there-done-that’s, bringing through youth in the squad or buying big names. Nothing is fecking working.

Why?

Because most managers aren't good enough to cut it at this level? There's a quote floating somewhere around that we have had less managers that pretty much all of Real/Bayern/Juventus etc. in the post SAF era despite "Nothing is fecking working"

It hasn't worked because we've not gotten the right people. We will eventually. Was United rotten between Busy and SAF? Was liverpool rotten in the 30 years between their last league win and Klopp? Did the club suddenly become un-rotten overnight when Klopp came in?

This is a dumb viewpoint.
 
Because most managers aren't good enough to cut it at this level? There's a quote floating somewhere around that we have had less managers that pretty much all of Real/Bayern/Juventus etc. in the post SAF era despite "Nothing is fecking working"

It hasn't worked because we've not gotten the right people. We will eventually. Was United rotten between Busy and SAF? Was liverpool rotten in the 30 years between their last league win and Klopp? Did the club suddenly become un-rotten overnight when Klopp came in?

This is a dumb viewpoint
There’s really no need to call it a dumb viewpoint, mate. We’ve accrued some of the largest amounts of debt out of the top clubs, and often had signings dictated by the American board. We’ve now got Ineos in, and it’s a positive change that will take time, but Old united and shit-era Liverpool didn’t have a club run like this. We’re a business, a brand making as much money as we’ve ever had but doing much more poorly on the pitch - and it’s often felt like that doesn’t really matter.

It feels better given the background changes, but we’re not the same club we used to be and those who actually know what they’re on about (so neither me nor you) have this view. Ronaldo giving a very damning interview lately, for example.

Also, I can’t recall any of those teams you mentioning having such an inconsistently poor on pitch performance throughout all of their managers, either. Pretty sure they’re all champions league semi finalists at the very least.
 
But if poch won a trophy or 2 you know how the Story goes. He’d have bought himself another couple of years. We give managers more time than they deserve. We can’t think short term, we need to go for a manager that can develop us and potentially challenge. That guy needs to be the same guy, Alonso, Nagelsmann, Inzaghi or even Amorim should be the 4 we target.
That’s a good dilemma to have at least.

“We give managers more time than they deserve” is a statement you can say about pre-INEOS times. Too early to say if that’s the case with INEOS too.
 
Don't think we have that bag of money to lure Emery, would you include Inzaghi, Amorim or Xavi on shortlist. Pretty certain that Pochettino has agreed to take over USA now anyway. I see that we both have Alonso and Nagelsmann as top 2 targets but neither realistic for a myriad of reasons.
Why wouldn’t we? On paper Emery should get a bigger paycheck and be at a bigger club by going to United.

I think Nagelsmann is tough, but not unrealistic. He might have a dream of coaching Germany for the World Cup, so there could be waiting time.

I don’t know much about the other candidates to be fair, but from the hip I’d say Inzaghi has his own playing style that would make us sign players for another system than a permanent one, Xavi too inexperienced and Amorim I just don’t know anything about. A guy like Ashworth should be pretty much up to date about potential candidates like him however.
 
Accepted we’ve had the first major change for years, but the club and its top leaders are the common denominator over the last 11 years. We’ve tried everything, club legends, tacticians, been-there-done-that’s, bringing through youth in the squad or buying big names. Nothing is fecking working.

Why?
A lack of footballing culture. SAF was everything, without him we have none.
 
But the signings we made look heavily influence by ten hag and its hard to be confident they will fit in under another manager, which just seeks incredibly stupid. The decision to retain him was alway most likely to end in more of the same
I honestly don't see them at hags picks, they don't suit his football.
 
No chance of him coming here if he wants control on transfers
 
The only signing I would say that about is maybe Zirkzee. The others are good players who can fit under most managers. It is still to early to say anything about Ugarte I feel.
I would argue de ligt as well. Most top teams seem to play a high line these days and not sure that's achievable woth two slow centre backs
 
Suprised if he gets that at any big club though. Wonder if it's a sign of the declining appeal of the job
The weird thing about this rumour is that Tuchel never really had that control and never demanded it. Only after the Chelsea takeover he briefly had big influence and was so bad and unmotivated about that, that it was a big reason why Boehly was unhappy with him and ultimately let him go. So I truly have a hard time believing that he demanded something like that from United.
 
The weird thing about this rumour is that Tuchel never really had that control and never demanded it. Only after the Chelsea takeover he briefly had big influence and was so bad and unmotivated about that, that it was a big reason why Boehly was unhappy with him and ultimately let him go. So I truly have a hard time believing that he demanded something like that from United.
The timing of the rumour makes me wonder if it could have emanated from the club as an excuse for not appointing a new manager
 
The weird thing about this rumour is that Tuchel never really had that control and never demanded it. Only after the Chelsea takeover he briefly had big influence and was so bad and unmotivated about that, that it was a big reason why Boehly was unhappy with him and ultimately let him go. So I truly have a hard time believing that he demanded something like that from United.

Did he not have a massive fallout at Dortmund because he was trying to get control and was so desperate to sign Oliver Torres that it got nasty (with Mislintat)? At Chelsea, he pushed for Lukaku a year before he left, got him, and hated him within a few months (which is understandable!).

It seems to me that Tuchel is challenging to deal with because he says he wants this and that, and when he gets it, he pretends he only wants to coach. It seems central to his personality and why he's never quite reached and sustained his potential.

I'd still have him at United though. He's not Pep, but he can compete with all the rest, and I think he must want to find a job where he can show his level longer term.
 
Just supposing Tutchel had a change of heart and decided to take on project Utd? He’d probably insist on a mass clear out of the squad, including some of the newbie’s.
Can you imagine how it would play out with de Ligt, who incidentally hasn’t performed that badly since his arrival.
 
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Can you imagine how it play out with de Ligt, who incidentally hasn’t performed that badly since his arrival.
De Ligt was Bayern's best defender under Tuchel and played all the time if he was fully fit. Don't see why this should be a problem.

Did he not have a massive fallout at Dortmund because he was trying to get control and was so desperate to sign Oliver Torres that it got nasty (with Mislintat)? At Chelsea, he pushed for Lukaku a year before he left, got him, and hated him within a few months (which is understandable!).
Mislintat himself seems to be a problematic character as well. But you are right, there seem to be these situations during Tuchel's career. The way I see this is that he has clear views on what kind of players he needs for his squad and as long as he aligns with the DoF on this question there is no issue. If the DoF starts delivering different types of players it seems to create problems.

So I think when considering Tuchel it is extremely important to clarify if there is an alignment with him and Ashworth in that regard. If not, it doesn't make sense
 
Because most managers aren't good enough to cut it at this level? There's a quote floating somewhere around that we have had less managers that pretty much all of Real/Bayern/Juventus etc. in the post SAF era despite "Nothing is fecking working"

It hasn't worked because we've not gotten the right people. We will eventually. Was United rotten between Busy and SAF? Was liverpool rotten in the 30 years between their last league win and Klopp? Did the club suddenly become un-rotten overnight when Klopp came in?

This is a dumb viewpoint.
Talking about dumb viewpoints... You act as if those clubs simply rolled the dice on their manager decisions and made it a numbers game. Feck sack, we went from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho to Ole to ETH. ETH is the first manager that could be described as somewhat modern. And no, modern doesn't necessarily mean good but just look at the clubs you so intelligently listed. How many has-beens are in those lists? How often did they do two almost perfect 180ies like we did with Moyes and LVG and then from LVG to Mou?!
It isn't about how many and how often you switch. It is about going for the most suited candidate - not because some braindead matchgoer thinks a manager is "good" or "the best" but because his ideas fit the ideas of the club (sporting director) and the skillsets of the players. What you suggest is rolling the dice until you incidentally stumble upon the right combination of squad and manager. Good luck with that. Thats certainly not a dumb viewpoint at all.
RVN until we have run a proper recruitment process.
What could he then do, that can't do right now?
 
Utd had finished 7th in the league when Tuchel turned the job down.
A few weeks later and Utd are now 13th and transfer season closed.
Why would he suddenly have a change of mind and take the job?

Besides all that, I couldn’t envisage INEOS offering him the job again after his reluctance in the summer.

Emery is your man.