Livestream out of Syria
- Thread starter ooeat0meoo
- Start date
Well I know that's the right way, but try telling that to someone who lost a person close to him and then they found the killer while they were armed, although that's not an excuse for what they did as it's wrong no one can say it's not wrong..
I think after all we had lost, it's not about democracy anymore, most of my friends lost at least a relative and some of them lost their house in the shelling, I think now a lot of the rebels wants revenge from Assad and his army more than anything else.
So if its not about democracy what happens after the hypothetical situation where Assad leaves or is killed?
I said it's not anymore, and as I'm bad at English I'll explain what I exactly mean:its about more than freedom and democracy now but still freedom and democracy is a priority, by the way I asked you to visit me in Damascus and maybe just maybe I can show you what Assad did and you can change your mind, and if you like you can visit after the rebels win and I'll show you around to try and change your mind.
the moderates will need to assert themselves. A lot I think will depend on the Syrian army. If they instill some calm, order will come about fairly quickly. Fair elections should follow and then things can hopefully come back to normal.
Can the rebels with their weapons do this to a building? How can you like Al-Assad regime is beyond me! This is Homs the city that sacrificed everything for Assad to leave:
I said it's not anymore, and as I'm bad at English I'll explain what I exactly mean:its about more than freedom and democracy now but still freedom and democracy is a priority, by the way I asked you to visit me in Damascus and maybe just maybe I can show you what Assad did and you can change your mind, and if you like you can visit after the rebels win and I'll show you around to try and change your mind.
I'll take you up on the offer after everything's calmed down, but for now look after yourself.
Well that's easier said than done...
The Syrian army are seen as the enemy though, I fear there'll be many massacres and executions of soldiers and ethnic minorities.
RedKaos and syrian_Scholes....
I really look forward to seeing pics of you lads walking through teh streets of a peaceful Damascus.
Stay safe you two.
I really look forward to seeing pics of you lads walking through teh streets of a peaceful Damascus.
Stay safe you two.
Well I think that will happen to Alawities especially in Homs as there's a lot of Alawities neighborhoods their and most of the people there did a lot of bad things like the Sunni Souk if you heard of it, a place to buy stolen Sunni's people stuffs and also a Sunni can't get inside any of those neighborhoods as they would get slaughtered immediately, that's not an excuse though and I'm against it but I can understand the anger towards them, and other minorities, Christians for example, a lot of them are in the FSA also in a smaller percentage Durze are organizing some protests and I got a Durzi female friend who I used to go to protests with.
RedKaos and syrian_Scholes....
I really look forward to seeing pics of you lads walking through teh streets of a peaceful Damascus.
Stay safe you two.
For my safety I can only post a picture taken by me in a protest...
Like this one: (it says Barzeh Al-Ezzeh which means proud Barzeh a neighborhood in Damascus, the protest was protected by the FSA)
right lads. when all is settled over there...I'll just have to make a trip
I recommend everyone to see those two pages, pictures of Homs city:
https://www.facebook.com/Homs.under.mass
https://www.facebook.com/LensYoungHomsi
https://www.facebook.com/Homs.under.mass
https://www.facebook.com/LensYoungHomsi
even through the destruction of the city, I can see its beauty.
Obama Secret Syria Order Authorizes Support For Rebels
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/01/obama-secret-syria-order_n_1730712.html
Finally...
By Mark Hosenball
WASHINGTON, Aug 1 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing U.S. support for rebels seeking to depose Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his government, U.S. sources familiar with the matter said.
Obama's order, approved earlier this year and known as an intelligence "finding," broadly permits the CIA and other U.S. agencies to provide support that could help the rebels oust Assad.
This and other developments signal a shift toward growing, albeit still circumscribed, support for Assad's armed opponents - a shift that intensified following last month's failure of the U.N. Security Council to agree on tougher sanctions against the Damascus government.
The White House is for now apparently stopping short of giving the rebels lethal weapons, even as some U.S. allies do just that.
But U.S. and European officials have said that there have been noticeable improvements in the coherence and effectiveness of Syrian rebel groups in the past few weeks. That represents a significant change in assessments of the rebels by Western officials, who previously characterized Assad's opponents as a disorganized, almost chaotic, rabble.
Precisely when Obama signed the secret intelligence authorization, an action not previously reported, could not be determined.
The full extent of clandestine support that agencies like the CIA might be providing also is unclear.
White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined comment.
'NERVE CENTER'
A U.S. government source acknowledged that under provisions of the presidential finding, the United States was collaborating with a secret command center operated by Turkey and its allies.
Last week, Reuters reported that, along with Saudi Arabia and Qatar, Turkey had established a secret base near the Syrian border to help direct vital military and communications support to Assad's opponents.
This "nerve center" is in Adana, a city in southern Turkey about 60 miles (100 km) from the Syrian border, which is also home to Incirlik, a U.S. air base where U.S. military and intelligence agencies maintain a substantial presence.
Turkey's moderate Islamist government has been demanding Assad's departure with growing vehemence. Turkish authorities are said by current and former U.S. government officials to be increasingly involved in providing Syrian rebels with training and possibly equipment.
European government sources said wealthy families in Saudi Arabia and Qatar were providing significant financing to the rebels. Senior officials of the Saudi and Qatari governments have publicly called for Assad's departure.
On Tuesday, NBC News reported that the Free Syrian Army had obtained nearly two dozen surface-to-air missiles, weapons that could be used against Assad's helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft. Syrian government armed forces have employed such air power more extensively in recent days.
NBC said the shoulder-fired missiles, also known as MANPADs, had been delivered to the rebels via Turkey.
On Wednesday, however, Bassam al-Dada, a political adviser to the Free Syrian Army, denied the NBC report, telling the Arabic-language TV network Al-Arabiya that the group had "not obtained any such weapons at all." U.S. government sources said they could not confirm the MANPADs deliveries, but could not rule them out either.
Current and former U.S. and European officials previously said that weapons supplies, which were being organized and financed by Qatar and Saudi Arabia, were largely limited to guns and a limited number of anti-tank weapons, such as bazookas.
Indications are that U.S. agencies have not been involved in providing weapons to Assad's opponents. In order to do so, Obama would have to approve a supplement, known as a "memorandum of notification, to his initial broad intelligence finding.
Further such memoranda would have to be signed by Obama to authorize other specific clandestine operations to support Syrian rebels.
Reuters first reported last week that the White House had crafted a directive authorizing greater U.S. covert assistance to Syrian rebels. It was unclear at that time whether Obama had signed it.
OVERT SUPPORT
Separately from the president's secret order, the Obama administration has stated publicly that it is providing some backing for Assad's opponents.
The State Department said on Wednesday the U.S. government had set aside a total of $25 million for "non-lethal" assistance to the Syrian opposition. A U.S. official said that was mostly for communications equipment, including encrypted radios. .
The State Department also says the United States has set aside $64 million in humanitarian assistance for the Syrian people, including contributions to the World Food Program, the International Committee of the Red Cross and other aid agencies.
Also on Wednesday, the U.S. Treasury confirmed it had granted authorization to the Syrian Support Group, Washington representative of one of the most active rebel factions, the Free Syrian Army, to conduct financial transactions on the rebel group's behalf. The authorization was first reported on Friday by Al-Monitor, a Middle East news and commentary website.
Last year, when rebels began organizing themselves to challenge the rule of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, Obama also signed an initial "finding" broadly authorizing secret U.S. backing for them. But the president moved cautiously in authorizing specific measures to support them.
Some U.S. lawmakers, such as Republican Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, have criticized Obama for moving too slowly to assist the rebels and have suggested the U.S. government become directly involved in arming Assad's opponents.
Other lawmakers have suggested caution, saying too little is known about the many rebel groups.
Recent news reports from the region have suggested that the influence and numbers of Islamist militants, some of them connected to al Qaeda or its affiliates, have been growing among Assad's opponents.
U.S. and European officials say that, so far, intelligence agencies do not believe the militants' role in the anti-Assad opposition is dominant.
While U.S. and allied government experts believe that the Syrian rebels have been making some progress against Assad's forces lately, most believe the conflict is nowhere near resolution, and could go on for years. (Additional reporting by Tabassum Zakaria and Arshad Mohammed; Editing by Warren Strobel and Peter Cooney)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/01/obama-secret-syria-order_n_1730712.html
Finally...
By Mark Hosenball
WASHINGTON, Aug 1 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing U.S. support for rebels seeking to depose Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his government, U.S. sources familiar with the matter said.
Obama's order, approved earlier this year and known as an intelligence "finding," broadly permits the CIA and other U.S. agencies to provide support that could help the rebels oust Assad.
This and other developments signal a shift toward growing, albeit still circumscribed, support for Assad's armed opponents - a shift that intensified following last month's failure of the U.N. Security Council to agree on tougher sanctions against the Damascus government.
The White House is for now apparently stopping short of giving the rebels lethal weapons, even as some U.S. allies do just that.
But U.S. and European officials have said that there have been noticeable improvements in the coherence and effectiveness of Syrian rebel groups in the past few weeks. That represents a significant change in assessments of the rebels by Western officials, who previously characterized Assad's opponents as a disorganized, almost chaotic, rabble.
Precisely when Obama signed the secret intelligence authorization, an action not previously reported, could not be determined.
The full extent of clandestine support that agencies like the CIA might be providing also is unclear.
White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined comment.
'NERVE CENTER'
A U.S. government source acknowledged that under provisions of the presidential finding, the United States was collaborating with a secret command center operated by Turkey and its allies.
Last week, Reuters reported that, along with Saudi Arabia and Qatar, Turkey had established a secret base near the Syrian border to help direct vital military and communications support to Assad's opponents.
This "nerve center" is in Adana, a city in southern Turkey about 60 miles (100 km) from the Syrian border, which is also home to Incirlik, a U.S. air base where U.S. military and intelligence agencies maintain a substantial presence.
Turkey's moderate Islamist government has been demanding Assad's departure with growing vehemence. Turkish authorities are said by current and former U.S. government officials to be increasingly involved in providing Syrian rebels with training and possibly equipment.
European government sources said wealthy families in Saudi Arabia and Qatar were providing significant financing to the rebels. Senior officials of the Saudi and Qatari governments have publicly called for Assad's departure.
On Tuesday, NBC News reported that the Free Syrian Army had obtained nearly two dozen surface-to-air missiles, weapons that could be used against Assad's helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft. Syrian government armed forces have employed such air power more extensively in recent days.
NBC said the shoulder-fired missiles, also known as MANPADs, had been delivered to the rebels via Turkey.
On Wednesday, however, Bassam al-Dada, a political adviser to the Free Syrian Army, denied the NBC report, telling the Arabic-language TV network Al-Arabiya that the group had "not obtained any such weapons at all." U.S. government sources said they could not confirm the MANPADs deliveries, but could not rule them out either.
Current and former U.S. and European officials previously said that weapons supplies, which were being organized and financed by Qatar and Saudi Arabia, were largely limited to guns and a limited number of anti-tank weapons, such as bazookas.
Indications are that U.S. agencies have not been involved in providing weapons to Assad's opponents. In order to do so, Obama would have to approve a supplement, known as a "memorandum of notification, to his initial broad intelligence finding.
Further such memoranda would have to be signed by Obama to authorize other specific clandestine operations to support Syrian rebels.
Reuters first reported last week that the White House had crafted a directive authorizing greater U.S. covert assistance to Syrian rebels. It was unclear at that time whether Obama had signed it.
OVERT SUPPORT
Separately from the president's secret order, the Obama administration has stated publicly that it is providing some backing for Assad's opponents.
The State Department said on Wednesday the U.S. government had set aside a total of $25 million for "non-lethal" assistance to the Syrian opposition. A U.S. official said that was mostly for communications equipment, including encrypted radios. .
The State Department also says the United States has set aside $64 million in humanitarian assistance for the Syrian people, including contributions to the World Food Program, the International Committee of the Red Cross and other aid agencies.
Also on Wednesday, the U.S. Treasury confirmed it had granted authorization to the Syrian Support Group, Washington representative of one of the most active rebel factions, the Free Syrian Army, to conduct financial transactions on the rebel group's behalf. The authorization was first reported on Friday by Al-Monitor, a Middle East news and commentary website.
Last year, when rebels began organizing themselves to challenge the rule of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, Obama also signed an initial "finding" broadly authorizing secret U.S. backing for them. But the president moved cautiously in authorizing specific measures to support them.
Some U.S. lawmakers, such as Republican Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, have criticized Obama for moving too slowly to assist the rebels and have suggested the U.S. government become directly involved in arming Assad's opponents.
Other lawmakers have suggested caution, saying too little is known about the many rebel groups.
Recent news reports from the region have suggested that the influence and numbers of Islamist militants, some of them connected to al Qaeda or its affiliates, have been growing among Assad's opponents.
U.S. and European officials say that, so far, intelligence agencies do not believe the militants' role in the anti-Assad opposition is dominant.
While U.S. and allied government experts believe that the Syrian rebels have been making some progress against Assad's forces lately, most believe the conflict is nowhere near resolution, and could go on for years. (Additional reporting by Tabassum Zakaria and Arshad Mohammed; Editing by Warren Strobel and Peter Cooney)
Great article on this whole mess, perfectly outlining my own opinions:
Charles Shoebridge: The West Should Not Support Syrian Rebels
Charles Shoebridge: The West Should Not Support Syrian Rebels
does not come up. can you cut and paste the article?
Sure
Interesting how the author's a former US intelligence officer.
Interesting how the author's a former US intelligence officer.
Anyone who preemptively uses the term 'the West' should be approached with one eye of suspicion.
Including a former US intelligence officer who writes for the Huffington Post?
I think we all know what the 'West' collectively represents.
The Huffington Post is an aggrgator of articles. Whoop dee doo! The west is not a person or a collective entity that behaves like some sentient organism and shouldn't be alluded to as such. It's just pure laziness.
I'm pretty sure he was collectively referring to the US and her 'western' allies, namely the British and French, who have been the most outspoken supporters of the rebels in the continent.
Regardless why so caught up on the terminology? The article still makes sound points, neither of which are particularly controversial and all of which are factual.
Because misleading terminology tends to legitimate misleading strands of argument, and needs to be challenged before the discussion goes too far down the wrong rabbit hole.
Like I said, I'm pretty sure everyone who reads that article knows very well what he means by the 'West'. I don't think he's referring to the foreign policy of the Principality of Liechtenstein.
So is Assad willing to give full amnesty to the rebels?Not offering help to them and simply standing by is hardly a solution. The only possible way forward, is both sides agree to a ceasefire and a neutral body, UN? mediate a solution.
Unfortunately after all the killings, I don't see either side living with the other.
Assad has been no friend to the 'West' and is a pawn of Russia and China. while the make up of the rebel groups may not be ideal, we have to hope the majority will be more interested in rebuilding their country rather than sponsor terrorism. If Al Queda want to set up base in Syria, their 'allies' in teh current conflict will not be too accomodating unless they want another 'Iraq'.
Unfortunately after all the killings, I don't see either side living with the other.
Assad has been no friend to the 'West' and is a pawn of Russia and China. while the make up of the rebel groups may not be ideal, we have to hope the majority will be more interested in rebuilding their country rather than sponsor terrorism. If Al Queda want to set up base in Syria, their 'allies' in teh current conflict will not be too accomodating unless they want another 'Iraq'.
Al-Qaeda didn't even too many allies in Iraq either and they still managed to inflict years of devastating violence which is still felt today. I think we should be careful not to underestimate their scope for violence and their persistence for staying on.
My issue is that for many of these 'allies', I think Syria's instability would suit them. I think the US, Saudi Arabia and Qatar wouldn't necessarily care if Syria descends into unending civil war plagued with violence and mass death, so long as public enemy number 1 - Iran, is regionally weakened. I don't think this has anything to do with importing democracy and human rights to Syria.
It's a bit odd to complain, its a commonly understood shorthand. It reminds me of far left groups in the 80s who had to define every term before they could say anything (and ended up saying nothing).
Can the rebels with their weapons do this to a building? How can you like Al-Assad regime is beyond me! This is Homs the city that sacrificed everything for Assad to leave:
Do you want me to show you what Al-Qaeda did?
It's been said many times already, don't know what's the point of repeating the exact same point, through new pictures. It's not about liking Al-Assad, it's about hating the Al-Qaeda and realizing their danger, and the serious consequences that could happen if they seize control over Syria.
I said it before, and I say it again now after things became clearer for everybody to see. If Assad is toppled then Al-Qaeda will be the one that will seize control over Syria. That, I will never want to happen. You can say what you want about the people in Syria, and how they are revolting against Assad, which is understandable because you're part of those people, but in truth, the people in Syria have no control over the situation, and don't even affect the outcome. The real fight is between Assad and Al-Qaeda, and the winner will end up ruling Syria for the next ?? years.
I wonder how come the US intelligence employs such imbeciles. Instability in Syria makes the security establishment here shit in their pants.
Funny enough I agree with you there, thats why I've not once mentioned Israel as one of the benefactors of Syrian instability, and something tells me you appreciate Assad as the weak enemy you know.
A crippled Assad regime will however weaken Iran and to a lesser degree the Hezbollah, that benefits Israel you'd imagine, though not sure if that overcomes the security issue pouring over the border.
If Al Quedda is going to be the big winner should Assad fall, why is the US , both left and right in favour of Assad going?
One word - Iran. Assad's Syria is the main Arab ally of the Islamic Republic in a region which is otherwise unanimously hostile towards it. With Assad out of the picture, Iran has one less ally and trustee, further marginalizing its regional influence. Its also why the Gulf states have been so rigorous in their superficial support towards Syrian 'democracy'.
That makes sense. But surely the US and the 'West' have thought about the consequences of their action.
whatever happens, it will take many years for Syria to recover.
How is it interesting ? People have all sorts of different opinions on topics.
Worst case scenario for the West is that Syria becomes a terrorist haven like Iraq was from 2004-09, which really isn't all that disastrous since the goal of toppling the pro-Iran Assad dynasty is completed. And since they won't have their own troops get killed by Islamic militants like in Iraq then they haven't really got that much to lose. The biggest headache is the security concerns it'll cause to Israel, but something tells me they're well equipped to deal with them.
I think people are happily fanning the flames of paranoia about what might happen if Assad is gone, usually as a means to justify keeping him in power. That's been the Syrian regime's narrative and some on the outside have now taken it on as well. In truth, there are all sorts of things that could happen if Assad is toppled, and Al-Qaeda taking over is probably at the bottom of the list. A change in government in Syria would effectively unshackle Russia and China's stubbornness at the Security Council and allow the UN to issue a Resolution creating a safety corridor, and allow UN peacekeepers to assist in dealing with security while a new Government is formed.
A US military man portrays skepticism towards supporting the Syrian opposition - an opinion which is usually unconventional for his ilk. I found that interesting, so shoot me.