Livestream out of Syria

“Our big hope is to form a Syrian-Iraqi Islamic state for all Muslims, and then announce our war against Iran and Israel, and free Palestine.”
Click to expand...

That would be an interesting war. Have to say my money would be on the Iranians and Israelis... despite it being an alliance possibly a bit lacking in trust.
 
Dunno, I think they might struggle with that.

But anyway, I like the sound of the alliance. It would be like once of those cop films, where the two guys who hate each other are teamed up to fight the bad guys, and piss each other off badly, but then develop a grudging respect for each other that finally blossoms into genuine friendship, shortly before they nuke each other into a puddle of molten ash.
 
Al Qaeda's involvement, or at least the broad claims of involvement, seems to be an attempt to regain relevance.

I do find their plan for the future interesting though. I suppose they expect the Syrians and Iraqis to start fighting again once Assad is gone because they just can't get enough?
 
Sir Matt said:
Al Qaeda's involvement, or at least the broad claims of involvement, seems to be an attempt to regain relevance.

I do find their plan for the future interesting though. I suppose they expect the Syrians and Iraqis to start fighting again once Assad is gone because they just can't get enough?
Click to expand...

You gotta have a dream
 
Raoul said:
There are varying levels of extremism in Iraq. Not all Sunnis who dislike Maliki and the Iranian orientation, are from Al-Qaeda. Many of them are tribe oriented people from Anbar, Ninewah, Diyala, and parts of Baghdad. They resent whats happening to the likes of Hashimi, Mutlaq, and so on, and blame it on Maliki being in Iran's back pocket through Sadr's back channel deal with Iran to support Maliki's coalition. Its these people that Maliki needs to appease in order to lay down a wedge between them and the more radical elements of AQI.
Click to expand...

I didn't at all suggest that. Heck, I don't like Maliki nor do I like Iran's exponential grip on Iraqi matters. In fact, most Al-Qaeda members aren't even Iraqi and hail from neighbouring Jordan, Saudi Arabia and parts of North Africa. These are the same folk who have been launching terrorist attacks all over Syria recently as mentioned in VidaRed's article:

Izzat al-Shahbandar — a close aide to the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki — said in an interview on Tuesday. “Al Qaeda that is operating in Iraq is the same as that which is operating in Syria,” he said.
Click to expand...

Quite frankly there's no sane way of appeasing Al-Qaeda. They have to be wiped out like the vermin they all are, both in Iraq, Syria and any other nation they're plaguing in the world.
 
It looks like Aleppo is about to be attacked by the Syrian Army after the FSA took control of many of the city's neighborhoods. The Syran Army has been using helicopters and aircraft to patrol the FSA controlled neighborhoods and attacking them.
 
Sir Matt said:
It looks like Aleppo is about to be attacked by the Syrian Army after the FSA took control of many of the city's neighborhoods. The Syran Army has been using helicopters and aircraft to patrol the FSA controlled neighborhoods and attacking them.
Click to expand...

Aleppo could well end up looking like Homs and given that its a much bigger population, could result in massive casualties resulting in a crimes against humanity charge against Assad.
 
The kurds have got a decent situation going for them...if they cant get something now then they wont for a very long time. Assad has also given them refuge in northern syria border along with turkey which is making the turks worried.
 
Sir Matt said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/27/saudi-protests-idUSL6E8IREI120120727

Since RT doesn't mention molotov cocktails being thrown at police...
Click to expand...

Stories like this aren't exactly uncommon. RT or no RT the Saudi government has always systematically and brutally punished democratic or Shia protestors campaigning for the merest of rights. These protesters don't have the luxury of being armed to the teeth like the Syrian 'freedom fighters' so they make do with tires and molotov cocktails against security forces which beat, main and shoot dead people for merely demanding they get equal political, economic and cultural rights in the country.

Meanwhile the Saudis have also dispatched military units into Bahrain to help the King there brutally put down the peaceful democratic protestors in that country. All this from a country which claims to be fighting for Syrian democracy by arming their fighters.
 
German Intelligence: "al-Qaeda" All Over Syria


One - now former - resident of the city of Qusayr told him that not only were Christians like himself expelled from the town, but that anyone who refused to enroll their children in the Free Syrian Army had been shot. Hackensberger’s source held foreign Islamists responsible for the atrocities. "I have seen them with my own eyes," he said, "Pakistanis, Libyans, Tunisians and also Lebanese. They call Osama bin Laden their sheikh."
Click to expand...

Sunni resident of Homs told Hackensberger that he had witnessed how an armed group stopped a bus: "The passengers were divided into two groups: on the one side, Sunnis; on the other, Alawis." According to Hackenberger’s source, the insurgents then proceeded to decapitate the nine Alawi passengers.
Click to expand...

Sound like a lovely bunch those rebels, remind me of the friendly Al-Qaeda chaps we had over in Iraq.
 
Is nato still fighting the "war on terror" or not ?

How can you fight Al-Qaeda in one region and be allies in another :rolleyes:
 
Raoul said:
Nato isn't involved in Syria.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't the countries that form nato support assad against al-qaeda ? Support can be vocal only rather than military or monetary assistance but here they are supporting al-qaeda and indirectly arming them to the teeth through there arab allies.

USA a country that is part of nato is fighting against al-qaeda in one part of the world and is seemingly on there side in another part of the world. How can you explain this ?
 
VidaRed said:
Shouldn't the countries that form nato support assad against al-qaeda ? Support can be vocal only rather than military or monetary assistance but here they are supporting al-qaeda and indirectly arming them to the teeth through there arab allies.

USA a country that is part of nato is fighting against al-qaeda in one part of the world and is seemingly on there side in another part of the world. How can you explain this ?
Click to expand...

That's a rather shallow argument given that a majority of actual Syrians want to get rid of Assad. The fact that insurgents from outside Syria have gotten involved is actually Assad's fault, because had he allowed protesters to have their say 17 months ago and immediately instituted reforms, he may have had a chance to avert whats happening now.
 
Raoul said:
That's a rather shallow argument given that a majority of actual Syrians want to get rid of Assad. The fact that insurgents from outside Syria have gotten involved is actually Assad's fault, because had he allowed protesters to have their say 17 months ago and immediately instituted reforms, he may have had a chance to avert whats happening now.
Click to expand...

If majority of syrians actually supported these "rebels" then assad would have been toppled months ago. On the other hand majority of aghans and pakistanis also want to get rid of usa from there countries. So why hasn't usa left yet ?
 
VidaRed said:
If majority of syrians actually supported these "rebels" then assad would have been toppled months ago. On the other hand majority of aghans and pakistanis also want to get rid of usa from there countries. So why hasn't usa left yet ?
Click to expand...

I think Assads military power has more to do with why he's still in power than popular opinion.
 
Raoul said:
That's a rather shallow argument given that a majority of actual Syrians want to get rid of Assad. The fact that insurgents from outside Syria have gotten involved is actually Assad's fault, because had he allowed protesters to have their say 17 months ago and immediately instituted reforms, he may have had a chance to avert whats happening now.
Click to expand...

To these foreign terrorists Assad's biggest crime is his religious background and secularism. The way they see it, he's a secular Alawite who backs Iran therefore needs to be put down to make way for an Islamic caliphate. There's a reason why these same terrorists aren't exactly rushing into countries like Bahrain where the population is being brutally oppressed as we speak. Its the same reason why Al-Qaeda had plagued Iraq - they were outraged at a Sunni dictator being displaced for a Shia-majority government.

Heck, even if Assad was firing skittles out of mortars it would be a good enough reason for these degenerates to start terrorizing the place.
 
MichaelS said:
I think Assads military power has more to do with why he's still in power than popular opinion.
Click to expand...

And the reason he maintains superior military power is because the majority of the army and its generals stand by him. Otherwise they would have all defected en masse.
 
RedKaos said:
And the reason he maintains superior military power is because the majority of the army and its generals stand by him. Otherwise they would have all defected en masse.
Click to expand...

It's not that simple.

And the military does not represent the majority of the civilian population.

It's not easy to defect if being a soldier is your whole livelihood. And you face torture and death if show the slightest hint of disloyalty. It's take balls and some degree of moral defecting and not many soldiers have that.
 
Sure, and if you have a large extended family it would have to be nearly impossible to get them all out, they would face serious retribution I imagine.
 
RedKaos said:
And the reason he maintains superior military power is because the majority of the army and its generals stand by him. Otherwise they would have all defected en masse.
Click to expand...

Most of the key figures and officers in the military are Alawites. They will remain loyal to Assad because of that.
 
MichaelS said:
It's not that simple.

And the military does not represent the majority of the civilian population.

It's not easy to defect if being a soldier is your whole livelihood. And you face torture and death if show the slightest hint of disloyalty. It's take balls and some degree of moral defecting and not many soldiers have that.
Click to expand...

I'd say that practice is more common amongst the rebel ranks, they've commonly been known to force young men and children to join their ranks or otherwise face execution.
 
Sir Matt said:
Most of the key figures and officers in the military are Alawites. They will remain loyal to Assad because of that.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. They're well aware that they and their families would be tortured and brutally executed in Al-Qaeda fashion if the radical Islamists on the other side emerged victorious. You can add Christians, Druzes, Atheists and secular Sunnis to that list too.
 
Al-Qaida turns tide for rebels in battle for eastern Syria

As they stood outside the commandeered government building in the town of Mohassen, it was hard to distinguish Abu Khuder's men from any other brigade in the Syrian civil war, in their combat fatigues, T-shirts and beards.

But these were not average members of the Free Syrian Army. Abu Khuder and his men fight for al-Qaida. They call themselves the ghuraba'a, or "strangers", after a famous jihadi poem celebrating Osama bin Laden's time with his followers in the Afghan mountains, and they are one of a number of jihadi organisations establishing a foothold in the east of the country now that the conflict in Syria has stretched well into its second bloody year.

They try to hide their presence. "Some people are worried about carrying the [black] flags," said Abu Khuder. "They fear America will come and fight us. So we fight in secret. Why give Bashar and the west a pretext?" But their existence is common knowledge in Mohassen. Even passers-by joke with the men about car bombs and IEDs.

According to Abu Khuder, his men are working closely with the military council that commands the Free Syrian Army brigades in the region. "We meet almost every day," he said. "We have clear instructions from our [al-Qaida] leadership that if the FSA need our help we should give it. We help them with IEDs and car bombs. Our main talent is in the bombing operations." Abu Khuder's men had a lot of experience in bomb-making from Iraq and elsewhere, he added.

Abu Khuder spoke later at length. He reclined on a pile of cushions in a house in Mohassen, resting his left arm which had been hit by a sniper's bullet and was wrapped in plaster and bandages. Four teenage boys kneeled in a tight crescent in front of him, craning their necks and listening with awe. Other villagers in the room looked uneasy.

Abu Khuder had been an officer in a mechanised Syrian border force called the Camel Corps when he took up arms against the regime. He fought the security forces with a pistol and a light hunting rifle, gaining a reputation as one of the bravest and most ruthless men in Deir el-Zour province and helped to form one of the first FSA battalions.

He soon became disillusioned with what he saw as the rebel army's disorganisation and inability to strike at the regime, however. He illustrated this by describing an attempt to attack the government garrison in Mohassen. Fortified in a former textile factory behind concrete walls, sand bags, machine-gun turrets and armoured vehicles, the garrison was immune to the rebels' puny attempt at assault.

"When we attacked the base with the FSA we tried everything and failed," said Abu Khuder. "Even with around 200 men attacking from multiple fronts they couldn't injure a single government soldier and instead wasted 1.5m Syrian pounds [£14,500] on firing ammunition at the walls."

Then a group of devout and disciplined Islamist fighters in the nearby village offered to help. They summoned an expert from Damascus and after two days of work handed Abu Khuder their token of friendship: a truck rigged with two tonnes of explosives.

Two men drove the truck close to the gate of the base and detonated it remotely. The explosion was so large, Abu Khuder said, that windows and metal shutters were blown hundreds of metres, trees were ripped up by their roots and a huge crater was left in the middle of the road.

The next day the army left and the town of Mohassen was free.

"The car bomb cost us 100,000 Syrian pounds and fewer than 10 people were involved [in the operation]," he said. "Within two days of the bomb expert arriving we had it ready. We didn't waste a single bullet.

"Al-Qaida has experience in these military activities and it knows how to deal with it."

After the bombing, Abu Khuder split with the FSA and pledged allegiance to al-Qaida's organisation in Syria, the Jabhat al Nusra or Solidarity Front. He let his beard grow and adopted the religious rhetoric of a jihadi, becoming a commander of one their battalions.

"The Free Syrian Army has no rules and no military or religious order. Everything happens chaotically," he said. "Al-Qaida has a law that no one, not even the emir, can break.

"The FSA lacks the ability to plan and lacks military experience. That is what [al-Qaida] can bring. They have an organisation that all countries have acknowledged.

"In the beginning there were very few. Now, mashallah, there are immigrants joining us and bringing their experience," he told the gathered people. "Men from Yemen, Saudi, Iraq and Jordan. Yemenis are the best in their religion and discipline and the Iraqis are the worst in everything – even in religion."

At this, one man in the room – an activist in his mid-30s who did not want to be named – said: "So what are you trying to do, Abu Khuder? Are you going to start cutting off hands and make us like Saudi? Is this why we are fighting a revolution?"

"[Al-Qaida's] goal is establishing an Islamic state and not a Syrian state," he replied. "Those who fear the organisation fear the implementation of Allah's jurisdiction. If you don't commit sins there is nothing to fear."

Religious and sectarian rhetoric has taken a leading role in the Syrian revolution from the early days. This is partly because of the need for outside funding and weapons, which are coming through well-established Muslim networks, and partly because religion provides a useful rallying cry for fighters, with promises of martyrdom and redemption.

Almost every rebel brigade has adopted a Sunni religious name with rhetoric exalting jihad and martyrdom, even when the brigades are run by secular commanders and manned by fighters who barely pray.

"Religion is a major rallying force in this revolution – look at Ara'our [a rabid sectarian preacher], he is hysterical and we don't like him but he offers unquestionable support to the fighters and they need it," the activist said later.

Another FSA commander in Deir el-Zour city explained the role of religion in the uprising: "Religion is the best way to impose discipline. Even if the fighter is not religious he can't disobey a religious order in battle."

Al-Qaida has existed in this parched region of eastern Syria, where the desert and the tribes straddle the border with Iraq, for almost a decade.

During the years of American occupation of Iraq, Deir el-Zour became the gateway through which thousands of foreign jihadis flooded to fight the holy war. Many senior insurgents took refuge from American and Iraqi government raids in the villages and deserts of Deir el-Zour.

Osama, a young jihadi from Abu Khuder's unit with a kind smile, was 17 in 2003 when the Americans invaded Iraq, he said. He ran away from home and joined the thousands of other Syrians who crossed the porous border and went to fight. Like most of those volunteers, at first he was inspired by a mixture of nationalistic and tribal allegiances, but later religion became his sole motivation.

After returning to Syria he drifted closer to the jihadi ideology. It was dangerous then, and some of his friends were imprisoned by the regime, which for years played a double game, allowing jihadis to filter across the borders to fight the Americans while at the same time keeping them tightly under control at home.

In the first months of the Syrian uprising, he joined the protesters in the street, and when some of his relatives were killed he defected and joined the Free Syrian Army.

"I decided to join the others," he said. "But then I became very disappointed with the FSA. When they fought they were great, but then most of the time they sat in their rooms doing nothing but smoke and gossip and chat on Skype."

Fed up with his commanders' bickering and fighting over money, he turned to another fighting group based in the village of Shahail, 50 miles west of Mohassen, which has become the de facto capital of al-Qaida in Deir el-Zour. More than 20 of its young men were killed in Iraq. In Shahail the al-Qaida fighters drive around in white SUVs with al-Qaida flags fluttering.

The group there was led by a pious man. He knew a couple of them from his time in Iraq. One day, the group's leader – a Saudi who covered his hair with a red scarf and carried a small Kalashnikov, in the style of Bin Laden – visited Mohassen. He gave a long sermon during the funeral of a local commander, telling the audience how jihad was the only way to lead a revolution against the infidel regime of Bashar al-Assad, and how they, the Syrians, were not only victims of the regime but also of the hypocrisy of the west, which refused to help them.

"They were committed," said Osama. "They obeyed their leader and never argued. In the FSA, if you have 10 people they usually split and form three groups." The jihadis, by contrast, used their time "in useful things, even the chores are divided equally".

Osama joined the group. "He [the Saudi] is a very good man, he spends his days teaching us. You ask him anything and he will answer you with verses from the Qur'an, you want to read the Qur'an you can read. You want to study bomb-making he will teach you."

In the pre-revolutionary days when the regime was strong it would take a year to recruit someone to the secret cause of jihad. "Now, thanks to God, we are working in the open and many people are joining in," said Osama.

In Shahail we interviewed Saleem Abu Yassir, a village elder and the commander of the local FSA brigade. He sat in a room filled with tribal fighters and machine-guns. The relationship with al-Qaida had been very difficult, he said, with the jihadis being secretive and despising the FSA and even calling them infidel secularists. But now they had opened up, co-operating with other rebel groups.

"Are they good fighters?" he threw the question rhetorically into the room. "Yes, they are, but they have a problem with executions. They capture a soldier and they put a pistol to his head and shoot him. We have religious courts and we have to try people before executing them. This abundance of killing is what we fear. We fear they are trying to bring us back to the days of Iraq and we have seen what that achieved."

Osama had told me that his group was very cautious about not repeating the Iraq experience – "they admit they made a lot of mistakes in Iraq and they are keen to avoid it", he said – but others, including a young doctor working for the revolution, were not convinced. The opposition needed to admit Al-Qaida were among them, and be on their guard.

"Who kidnapped the foreign engineers who worked in the nearby oilfield?" he asked. "They have better financing than the FSA and we have to admit they are here.

"They are stealing the revolution from us and they are working for the day that comes after."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/30/al-qaida-rebels-battle-syria
Click to expand...

Even al-qaeda recognizes the hypocrisy of the west!
 
RedKaos said:
To these foreign terrorists Assad's biggest crime is his religious background and secularism. The way they see it, he's a secular Alawite who backs Iran therefore needs to be put down to make way for an Islamic caliphate. There's a reason why these same terrorists aren't exactly rushing into countries like Bahrain where the population is being brutally oppressed as we speak. Its the same reason why Al-Qaeda had plagued Iraq - they were outraged at a Sunni dictator being displaced for a Shia-majority government.

Heck, even if Assad was firing skittles out of mortars it would be a good enough reason for these degenerates to start terrorizing the place.
Click to expand...

To further solidify your point.

Watch this video from bbc and see a car belonging to the "rebels" with an al-qaeda affiliate flag alongside the fsa flag (3:25 onwards). But somehow the bbc forgot to notice that. :wenger:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19050942

dgdsah.jpg


That flag apparantly belongs to Hizbut-Tahrir who's aim is to bring the entire muslim world into some sort of caliphate so i dont see how they are fighting for "freedom and democracy" for the syrian state. They are affiliated to al-qaeda.

Here is a clearer pic

539227_264083997040301_2077387302_n.jpg


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hizb-ut-tahrir.htm
 
RedKaos said:
I'd say that practice is more common amongst the rebel ranks, they've commonly been known to force young men and children to join their ranks or otherwise face execution.
Click to expand...

I'm not apologetic for the atroticities comitted by either side. This is now civil war and there will be blood.
 
MichaelS said:
It seems the west is damned if we conduct military operations in the foreign countries and damned if we don't.
Click to expand...

The west is damned because it does both in similar situations whilst peddling the "freedom and democracy" line which has nothing to do with it. Im sure half the people that damn the west would stop doing it if the west said they do whatever they do for there own interst (which is true) rather than for spreading freedom and democracy or for some moral reasons which is bs.
 
MichaelS said:
I'm not apologetic for the atroticities comitted by either side. This is now civil war and there will be blood.
Click to expand...

It is a civil war, and hence more the reason to not get involved. The West and its regional Arab allies have taken an irresponsible stance in funding and arming one side (which ironically bears an substantial Al-Qaeda contingent) and in doing so are exacerbating the violence.

This whole 'damned if we do, damned if we don't' predicament is absolute bollocks. If you 'do' then you do it consistently, supporting ALL democratic movements in the region - yes, that includes countries such as Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Bahrain which are torturing and killing democratic protestors while amusingly rallying under the banner of Syrian 'democracy'. Otherwise you 'don't', and simply keep your beak out of the region's internal affairs. To do otherwise would only further taint you with hypocrisy.
 
The wests military involvement would only escalate the violence, and we can't afford it.

I'm not sympathetic to the wests foreign policies I might add. However I prefer western superpowers over China and Russia.
 
MichaelS said:
The wests military involvement would only escalate the violence, and we can't afford it.

I'm not sympathetic to the wests foreign policies I might add. However I prefer western superpowers over China and Russia.
Click to expand...

Then it's a simple solution, don't get involved.

If the Gulf Arabs (who are way over their heads may I add) want to wage some pathetic sectarian war against Assad and Iran then let them go at it alone and face the consequences alone. I know the West are throwing in their superficial support in order to try and deal a blow to Iran, but quite frankly its a highly irresponsible and immoral way to go about it.
 
VidaRed said:
The west is damned because it does both in similar situations whilst peddling the "freedom and democracy" line which has nothing to do with it. Im sure half the people that damn the west would stop doing it if the west said they do whatever they do for there own interst (which is true) rather than for spreading freedom and democracy or for some moral reasons which is bs.
Click to expand...

The Al-Qaeda argument doesn't fly in Syria, just as it didn't in Libya. There are bound to be a number of foreign fighters who stick their beaks into these conflicts. That's nothing new and doesn't represent any sort of double standard given that a vast majority of Syrians appear to want to get rid of Assad, just as a majority of Libyans wanted rid of Qaddafi. Basically, the ongoing slaughter of whats happening in Syria is what would have happened to Libya had NATO not intervened.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.