Livestream out of Syria

A US military man portrays skepticism towards supporting the Syrian opposition - an opinion which is usually unconventional for his ilk. I found that interesting, so shoot me.

You find it interesting that everyone with a military background don't think exactly alike ? Ok, then.
 
Anyone who preemptively uses the term 'the West' should be approached with one eye of suspicion.
.

Anyone who considers CNN and BBC 'reliable sources' should be approached with one eye of suspicion.
 
That makes sense. But surely the US and the 'West' have thought about the consequences of their action.

They didn't mind it when they helped Taliban to fight the Soviet Union, and when they helped Saddam to fight Iran.. They wouldn't mind doing it again. What's the worst thing that can happen? A third (probably fourth or fifth by then) war in the region in about 10 years? Iran is the real war now for the US.
 
I think people are happily fanning the flames of paranoia about what might happen if Assad is gone, usually as a means to justify keeping him in power. That's been the Syrian regime's narrative and some on the outside have now taken it on as well. In truth, there are all sorts of things that could happen if Assad is toppled, and Al-Qaeda taking over is probably at the bottom of the list. A change in government in Syria would effectively unshackle Russia and China's stubbornness at the Security Council and allow the UN to issue a Resolution creating a safety corridor, and allow UN peacekeepers to assist in dealing with security while a new Government is formed.

It's not paranoia anymore Raoul. You could have used this argument earlier, but now it's obvious for everybody that Al-Qaeda (helped by a few neighboring countries) is the one who is leading this rebellion, whether you admit it or not. Many of them aren't even Syrian. There is no way who is fighting Al-Assad's army now is simply the poorly trained regular Syrian people with their primitive weapons. Even the US themselves are forced to admit now that Al-Qaeda are playing an important role in Syria, something obviously they would not want to admit right now..
 
It's not paranoia anymore Raoul. You could have used this argument earlier, but now it's obvious for everybody that Al-Qaeda (helped by a few neighboring countries) is the one who is leading this rebellion, whether you admit it or not. Many of them aren't even Syrian. There is no way who is fighting Al-Assad's army now is simply the poorly trained regular Syrian people with their primitive weapons. Even the US themselves are forced to admit now that Al-Qaeda are playing an important role in Syria, something obviously they would not want to admit right now..

Fair enough. I agree that there are foreign fighters in Syria, many of which identify themselves as Al-Qaeda - but that was allegedly also the case in Libya and I've yet to see an Al-Qaeda takeover there. The reality is that foreign militants see civil wars as an opportunity to stick their beaks in and get some publicity for what is now a fading cause. The Al-Qaeda of 2001 is basically dead or in prison, and the militants who identify themselves as Al-Qaeda now are a far cry from Bin Ladin's sophisticated team of well funded, international terrorists.

If you want a good documentary on the new Al-Qaeda, check out the Frontline documentary on Al-Qaeda in Yemen.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/al-qaeda-in-yemen/
 
Al-Qaeda aren't leading the rebellion. They've jumped into a place with a power vacuum, like they did in Libya. In the end, they aren't in charge of Libya. They're opportunists and try to get into any situation where they might get more publicity(for more money/support) and to try to grab some foothold. Unfortunately for Al-Qaeda, everyday people don't want to be a part of their eternal jihad. That's why fairly moderate Islamist parties won in Libya's most recent elections and why non-violent Islamist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood are in charge in Egypt.

They may well be playing a part in the civil war, but they have not taken power in any of the other countries they've fought in. They can wreak havoc and kill many people, but they are not a governing party or group.
 
Al-Qaeda aren't leading the rebellion. They've jumped into a place with a power vacuum, like they did in Libya. In the end, they aren't in charge of Libya. They're opportunists and try to get into any situation where they might get more publicity(for more money/support) and to try to grab some foothold. Unfortunately for Al-Qaeda, everyday people don't want to be a part of their eternal jihad. That's why fairly moderate Islamist parties won in Libya's most recent elections and why non-violent Islamist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood are in charge in Egypt.

They may well be playing a part in the civil war, but they have not taken power in any of the other countries they've fought in. They can wreak havoc and kill many people, but they are not a governing party or group.

Yeah. But with Al-Qaeda in the mix, it looks unlikely that there will ever be peace in Syria, even if the rebels swiftly won the power.
 
Worst case scenario for the West is that Syria becomes a terrorist haven like Iraq was from 2004-09, which really isn't all that disastrous since the goal of toppling the pro-Iran Assad dynasty is completed. And since they won't have their own troops get killed by Islamic militants like in Iraq then they haven't really got that much to lose. The biggest headache is the security concerns it'll cause to Israel, but something tells me they're well equipped to deal with them.

Despite the original Yank claims, chemical weapons were not in the Iraqi mix. In Syria we have a situation where possibly the biggest stocks of chemical weapons could fall to the hands of irresponsible groups of savages.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/01/obama-secret-syria-order_n_1730712.html

Finally...

By Mark Hosenball

WASHINGTON, Aug 1 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing U.S. support for rebels seeking to depose Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his government, U.S. sources familiar with the matter said.

not anymore.

it's frustrating to watch the UN do nothing. wtf are they doing elsewhere that they can't get their shit together and help the Syrian civilians?
 
Despite the original Yank claims, chemical weapons were not in the Iraqi mix. In Syria we have a situation where possibly the biggest stocks of chemical weapons could fall to the hands of irresponsible groups of savages.

Al-Qaeda with chemical weapons. Now that is scary.
 
you think the Israelis are after the weapons? wow! ;)

feck off :lol:. Actually, there has been discussion here of plans to actively prevent the falling of Syrian WMD to the hands of the people who brought you 9/11, or its transfer across the border to Hizballah.
 
Al-Qaeda aren't leading the rebellion. They've jumped into a place with a power vacuum, like they did in Libya. In the end, they aren't in charge of Libya. They're opportunists and try to get into any situation where they might get more publicity(for more money/support) and to try to grab some foothold. Unfortunately for Al-Qaeda, everyday people don't want to be a part of their eternal jihad. That's why fairly moderate Islamist parties won in Libya's most recent elections and why non-violent Islamist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood are in charge in Egypt.

They may well be playing a part in the civil war, but they have not taken power in any of the other countries they've fought in. They can wreak havoc and kill many people, but they are not a governing party or group.

Well in Libya we did get blacks and members of Gadaffi's tribe get slaughtered en masse, or if they were lucky - put into cages and treated like circus animals. But regardless there's a big difference between Syria and countries like Libya/Egypt and thats the sectarian divide.

Yes, there are edgy tribal/religious differences in countries like Libya and Egypt, but they're no where near as sensitive and distinct in a country like Syria, Lebanon or Iraq. In Iraq, when Saddam fell there was an essentially a free for all between Baathist loyalists, Al Qaeda and Shia militias and the results were catastrophic. Now consider the picture in Syria, there are essentially 3 distinct groups of people making up the 'rebellion', they are:

1) The genuine Syrian opposition - these are made up of Syrian civilians who want serious reforms and Assad to leave and perhaps make way for a democratic framework. I'd imagine people like SS to fit into this category.

2) The gulf states + the US - these folk only want Syrian to be severely weakened in order to indirectly hit Iran hard, democracy and human rights isn't an issue for this group.

3) Al-Qaeda - for them, this is nothing more but a sectarian war waged against the 'Kafir' Alawite Assad. Following this they want a regional caliphate established in Syria.

Now the only thing that these 3 groups have in common and which is bringing them together is their desire to get rid of Assad. But what happens after (if) Assad goes? Do you think all 3 groups will simply pat themselves on the back and congratulate each other on a job well done? No, they're going to clash and the results will be catastrophic. Furthermore, what happens to the minorities in Syria such as the Alawites, Christians and Druzes - many of which have been pro-regime? Do we simply accept their ill-fated demise with inevitable massacres, executions and ethnic cleansings?

Syria's cultural diaspora is more akin to Iraq than it is to Libya and Egypt, and we saw what happened (and is happening) in Iraq following Saddam's fall.
 
don't agree with everything you say RedKaos, especially that the US would be happy with Syria being a shambles. But even if we accept what you say, you are not offering any solution to the current situation.

Where do we go from here?
 
don't agree with everything you say RedKaos, especially that teh US would be happy with Syria being a shambles. But even if we accpt what you say, you are not offering any solution to the current situation.

Where do we go from here?

Its an impossible question to answer, but unfortunately I think the best solution is for no external parties to get involved - let the Syrians deal with it internally. Yes, a lot of people will die, but sadly thats a given regardless of what we do.

The worst thing to do is to arm and fund one side, especially if they have Al-Qaeda in their ranks. Like I said, if the Gulf states want to stick their beaks in then leave them to it and let them suffer the consequences alone.
 
Its an impossible question to answer, but unfortunately I think the best solution is for no external parties to get involved - let the Syrians deal with it internally. Yes, a lot of people will die, but sadly thats a given regardless of what we do.

The worst thing to do is to arm and fund one side, especially if they have Al-Qaeda in their ranks. Like I said, if the Gulf states want to stick their beaks in then leave them to it and let them suffer the consequences alone.

The Iranians are just as involved as the gulf states are in what's going on in Syria.
 
BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking
#Syria's PM Riyad Hijab defects to Jordan with family, the Jordanian government confirms

Another one goes....
 
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-premier-sacked-assad-forces-pound-aleppo-093020493.html

"I announce today my defection from the killing and terrorist regime and I announce that I have joined the ranks of the freedom and dignity revolution. I announce that I am from today a soldier in this blessed revolution."

This guy was the Prime Minister of Syria a few hours ago.

Hehe. he was on the "terrorist regime" side for 18 months now, responsible for the murder of thousands.
 
Hehe. he was on the "terrorist regime" side for 18 months now, responsible for the murder of thousands.

It's likely that either: Assad was going to get rid of him or he knows that the Assad regime can't last much longer.
 
Al-Qaeda's Specter in Syria
Author: Ed Husain, Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies
August 6, 2012


The Syrian rebels would be immeasurably weaker today without al-Qaeda in their ranks. By and large, Free Syrian Army (FSA) battalions are tired, divided, chaotic, and ineffective. Feeling abandoned by the West, rebel forces are increasingly demoralized as they square off with the Assad regime's superior weaponry and professional army. Al-Qaeda fighters, however, may help improve morale. The influx of jihadis brings discipline, religious fervor, battle experience from Iraq, funding from Sunni sympathizers in the Gulf, and most importantly, deadly results. In short, the FSA needs al-Qaeda now.

In Syria, al-Qaeda's foot soldiers call themselves Jabhat al-Nusrah li-Ahli al-Sham (Front for the Protection of the Levantine People). The group's strength and acceptance by the FSA are demonstrated by their increasing activity on the ground (BBC)--from seven attacks in March to sixty-six "operations" in June. In particular, the Jabhat has helped take the fight to Syria's two largest cities: the capital of Damascus, where 54 percent of its activities have been, and Aleppo. Indeed, al-Qaeda could become the most effective fighting force in Syria if defections from the FSA to the Jabhat persist and the ranks of foreign fighters (Guardian) continue to swell.

Al-Qaeda is not sacrificing its "martyrs" in Syria merely to overthrow Assad. Liberation of the Syrian people is a bonus, but the main aim is to create an Islamist state in all or part of the country. Failing that, they hope to at least establish a strategic base for the organization's remnants across the border in Iraq, and create a regional headquarters where mujahideen can enjoy a safe haven. If al-Qaeda continues to play an increasingly important role in the rebellion, then a post-Assad government will be indebted to the tribes and regions allied to the Jabhat. Failing to honor the Jabhat's future requests, assuming Assad falls, could see a continuation of conflict in Syria.

Thus far, Washington seems reluctant to weigh heavily into this issue. In May 2012, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta publicly accepted al-Qaeda's presence in Syria (Guardian). And in July, the State Department's counterterrorism chief, Daniel Benjamin, rather incredulously suggested that the United States will simply ask the FSA to reject al-Qaeda. The unspoken political calculation among policymakers is to get rid of Assad first—weakening Iran's position in the region—and then deal with al-Qaeda later.

But the planning to minimize al-Qaeda's likely hold over Syrian tribes and fighters must begin now as the Obama administration ramps up its support to rebel groups (Reuters). Of course, these preparations should also include efforts to locate and control Assad's chemical weapons. The months ahead will not be easy.

http://www.cfr.org/syria/al-qaedas-specter-syria/p28782

Ed Husain 'justifies' the acceptance of AQ within the FSA.
 
Yes, anyone who objects to Assad's campaign of murder is obviously on the Saudi payroll or else a member of Al-Qaeda.
 
I heard briefly on Morning Joe this snipet.

It was a Syrian rebel being interviewed I think. He said the rebels would rather get guns and ammo from the West rather than Al-Queda who were offering them this 'aid'.

I did not follow it further...as I was just getting ready to get out the door.
 
I saw some story about Bandar bin Sultan supposedly dying in some explosion a few weeks after being made intel chief. Anyone heard anything substantive about this? It was mentioned when some NPR caller asked on the Diane Rehm show Friday but they said it was just rumors.

Would be an interesting development if true.
 
Yes, anyone who objects to Assad's campaign of murder is obviously on the Saudi payroll or else a member of Al-Qaeda.

Not everyone, but Hijab was reportedly sacked hours before he defected. Besides, the Saudis have been officially bankrolling the rebels and paying for their salaries, including bribing senior members of the military or government to defect. Its perfectly feasible that Hijab was offered a very lucrative "defection package" which might have seemed a no-brainer considering he was now unemployed.
 
Not everyone, but Hijab was reportedly sacked hours before he defected. Besides, the Saudis have been officially bankrolling the rebels and paying for their salaries, including bribing senior members of the military or government to defect. Its perfectly feasible that Hijab was offered a very lucrative "defection package" which might have seemed a no-brainer considering he was now unemployed.

That's a rather paranoid, Pro-Assad interpretation of what happened. The more likely scenario involved him not wanting to be party to a slaughter that may land him in the Hague after Assad goes down.
 
Kurdish Gains in Syria Rattle Turkey

CEYLANPINAR, Turkey — Kurds in the north of Syria say they have taken control of most of the region's major towns and cities from government forces. Turkey fears the twin threats of the Syrian civil conflict spilling over the frontier along with a potential escalation of its internal war against Kurdish separatists.

Climbing up to his fourth-floor balcony, Mehmet Bervan, a Kurd from Ceylanpinar in southeast Turkey, has a frontline view of the conflict playing out in Syria. His house lies close enough to the border fence to shout at family members on the other side.

Bervan hoped this large villa would provide somewhere to live out a peaceful retirement. Week by week, he has watched the Syrian uprising descend into civil war.

"Often we would see explosions, bombs going off, smoke rising into the air. It was very scary for us here, terrible," he said.

Bervan echoes the feelings of Kurds across the Middle East.

"Of course people would like to live together. These fences were not here before. We were all one family. Then they put up the fence and it separated us all... some families are divided, we have uncles over there, brothers over there on the Syrian side," he said.

The Syrian side of this town, known as Serekanye in Kurdish or Ras al-Ayn in Arabic, is now under the full control of Kurdish forces.

With government forces stretched as they fight the Free Syria Army rebels for control of the Syrian heartlands around Aleppo and Damascus, the Kurds now control vast swathes of the northeast adjacent to Turkey.

Turkey's fear is that the Kurds in Syria will give sanctuary to Kurdish separatist fighters, known as the PKK.

In recent days Turkey has launched assaults on PKK strongholds, killing at least 11 militants and six soldiers. Tanks and heavy weapons also have been deployed along the border in the Kurdish region.

Prime Minister Recip Tayyip Erdogan has warned Turkey will strike PKK fighters in Syria.

"While the Assad regime commits cruel massacres in Syria, activities in northern Syria should be watched carefully," he said. "We can never overlook such developments threatening our security."

While Syrian Kurds have not fully joined the uprising, Kurdish political factions recently agreed to unite. Hafiz Abdurahman is a Syrian Kurdish human rights activist who fled to Turkey last year. He says Turkish fears are misplaced.

"Kurds are not demanding their own state in Syria, they want a free Syria, and for a free Kurdish people to have their own rights after being under this totalitarian regime for such a long time," said Abdurahman.

In Syria, the Kurds are celebrating newfound freedoms. For Turkey, the Syrian crisis brings new complexities to a long-standing conflict.

http://www.voanews.com/content/kurdish_gains_in_syria_rattle_turkey/1474654.html
 
Ed Husain 'justifies' the acceptance of AQ within the FSA.

There's nothing else he could have done considering the fact that the west is on the same page as al-qaeda as far as syria is concerned.
 
There's nothing else he could have done considering the fact that the west is on the same page as al-qaeda as far as syria is concerned.

There's no such thing as "the West". Its simply a false term. Each nation has to prioritize its own interests regarding Syria. The Al-Qaeda references are a bit of a Red Herring as well, designed to cloak the reality that a majority of the Syrian public want to get rid of Assad.
 
Syria Civil War: With Diplomacy Dead, U.S. Assists Rebels On Battlefield

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/07/syria-civil-war-obama-military-assistance_n_1750986.html

WASHINGTON -- With Syrian diplomacy all but dead, the Obama administration is shifting its focus on the civil war away from political transition and toward helping the rebels defeat the Syrian regime on the battlefield.

The U.S. still wants to avoid any military involvement, banking on a complicated policy of indirect assistance to the rebels and hope that the ragtag alliance of militias can demoralize President Bashar Assad's better-armed forces and end the war without far greater casualties.

It's a scenario analysts see as unlikely, even as the opposition gains ground in Aleppo, Damascus and elsewhere, and as the cadre of high-level defections from Assad's government grows. Prime Minister Riad Hijab became the latest to abandon Assad on Monday, rebels said.

The defections are "the latest indication that Assad has lost control of Syria and that the momentum is with the opposition forces and the Syrian people," White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said.

"The regime is crumbling," State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell said.

In Aleppo, the rebels are exceeding the expectations of military experts. Despite intense bombardment from warplanes, they've now withstood two weeks of regime counterattacks and are clawing toward the city center. Militiamen also are stepping up guerrilla-like forays in central districts of Damascus once firmly in Assad's hands.

Those gains have given the Obama administration hope that the tide of the war is turning – and without the need for the U.S. to reconsider its opposition to airstrikes, no-fly zones or even weapons sales to the anti-Assad forces.

And with U.N. special envoy Kofi Annan quitting his diplomatic efforts and the rebels starting to carve out larger toeholds in Syrian territory, the U.S. focus has changed accordingly.

Whereas once the U.S. hoped to see a cease-fire to end the fighting and then Assad leave office eventually on his own, the talk now is of the rebels driving him out of power by winning the war – or of Assad's loyalists, in the face of more military setbacks, turning on their leader.


As the rebels gain ground and weaponry, the U.S. has increased its humanitarian aid to $74 million and its "nonlethal" communications assistance to $25 million. The administration has eased restrictions for rebel fundraising in the United States.

It also has softened its support for the transitional plan crafted by Annan, and agreed to by both the United States and Russia after a conference in Geneva in June. The document aimed at establishing an interim government of individuals chosen by both the Assad regime and the opposition. Each would be able to veto candidates.

The arrangement was rejected immediately by many in the Syrian opposition, and Ventrell relegated it on Monday to a "basis for a good framework." He said the transitional authority should be chosen by the opposition and "remnants of the regime that don't have blood on their hands" – cutting out Assad and his senior government officials.

"The future of Syria is going to be for the Syrians to decide," he said.

Speaking last week, Ventrell said: "We are not at a point where we are negotiating with the Assad regime. We are at a point where the opposition is gaining ground and making plans for the day after."

The statements follow more than a year of Obama administration officials speaking of bringing international diplomatic pressure to drive Assad from office and meeting with multinational groups like the Friends of Syria.

While officials maintain that they'd prefer a "peaceful political transition" take place, they concede privately that the deaths of at least 19,000 Syrians over the past 17 months, the utter refusal by Assad to compromise and the failure of diplomacy means more bloodshed may lie ahead.

With mediation efforts cut off, a rebel victory now appears among the most feasible path forward for an end to Syria's war. And U.S. officials are trying to plan for messier regime change scenarios than the six-point plan advocated by Annan and adopted by no one in Syria.

The U.S. ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford, held meetings with opposition leaders in Cairo last week. Those followed consultations that the State Department's Syria envoy, Fred Hof, held with activists and likeminded governments in Europe a week before. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton will talk to Syrian activists and Turkish officials in Istanbul this weekend, rejecting proposals to turn her visit into another international diplomatic forum.

Ventrell said the goal of much of the recent diplomacy was to help the opposition come up with a post-Assad plan that would be as cohesive as possible.

"There still has to be water, electricity and all the basic services," Ventrell said. "What will the government look like? How it will function the day after? How will we ensure that (Syria) doesn't descend into further sectarian chaos? How do we make it work? That's some of the things we're working on."

The approach is one that American officials liken to a "soft landing." The goal would be to avoid the power vacuum of post-Saddam Hussein's Iraq by salvaging as many elements of the state as possible, and avoiding new insurgencies from emerging.

"We want to get there in a way that's a softer landing," a U.S. official said on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak publicly on the matter. "We don't want to see the institutions just melt away."

But it's unclear how quick the post-Assad era might come – and at what cost.

Most assessments see Syria's Assad making his stand in Damascus and battling to the end to hold his capital. Others speculate that regime loyalists could retreat to Alawite strongholds in northwest Syria, taking with them their guns, tanks, helicopters and even chemical weapons. Either situation could be extremely bloody. While Assad's forces are stretched, his Republican Guard units backed by airpower remain formidable.

And even as Clinton and other officials speak of the inevitability of opposition "safe zones" in Syria, the rebels have had to retreat from every major city they've held so far. They've maintained control of some rural areas bordering Turkey in the north, Lebanon in the west and Jordan in the south, according to the American Syrian Coalition.

The effect of the defections could be limited, as well. Like most previous regime members, those who fled Monday to Jordan were majority Sunnis. Assad still has the backing of the minority Alawite clan who hold most senior regime positions.

"It's politically important, but removing Assad and weakening his regime involves a political and military approach," said Andrew Tabler, a Syria expert at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. "And it's the relative success of the military approach to date that has caused this defection."
 
The terrorists/rebels killed an entire family of shias and hanged the youngest member of the family afterwards.


http://www.mashreghnews.ir/fa/news/143695/اعدام-کودک-عراقی-به-دست-افراد-مسلح-سوریعکس
 
The terrorists/rebels killed an entire family of shias and hanged the youngest member of the family afterwards.


http://www.mashreghnews.ir/fa/news/143695/اعدام-کودک-عراقی-به-دست-افراد-مسلح-سوریعکس

Let me guess - that young Shia boy was an Assad Shabiha that had to be executed for his 'crimes' right?

This is why you don't get in bed with those Al-Qaeda animals. The secular Sunni Muslims, Kurds and Druzes who've embraced them will soon learn to regret it.
 
Amnesty international released satellite images claiming that the syrian army in bombing aleppo.

The yellow dots indicate the bombing area

image-386308-galleryV9-effe.jpg


One can cleary see that terrorist posts are being bombed on the outskirts of the city and in open fields.