Livestream out of Syria

Danny1982 said:
The problem in Iraq is not that. The problem is that there are terrorists, whoever they are, who are killing people on the streets with all sorts of terrorist attacks. There is NO way you could even try to find an excuse for that, and there is no excuse anybody can give for supporting these ugly actions.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone except the Syrian regime considers the free Syrian Army to be terrorists. Fact is, Syria is now in a state of Civil War with the state doing a vast majority of the killing.
 
syrian_scholes said:
The rebels are more focused on Aleppo and are more in numbers there, it's hard getting inside Damascus as it is the capital, but the progress they showed when the got in Damascus is big, and it shows that they are getting ready for the real battle after a few days or weeks, they came here just to show the regime what they are capable of, they need a strategy now and they'll get into Damascus in no time....
Click to expand...

Long time SS. Hope you're keeping safe there...
 
Raoul said:
I don't think anyone except the Syrian regime considers the free Syrian Army to be terrorists. Fact is, Syria is now in a state of Civil War with the state doing a vast majority of the killing.
Click to expand...

This is pure assumption, a substantial number of people who have been killed include government soldiers, Alawites, Christians and those refusing to join the rebellion - all executed by the FSA. The numbers being chucked around have no contextual backing to them. And a lot of those killed by the regime are terrorists, many of them not even Syrian.

And to add to your 'terrorism' point: Al-Qaeda's integration within the FSA is the worst kept secret in Syria now not to mention their frequent suicide attacks on civilian areas - I'd say that pretty much registers as daylight terrorism to me.
 
RedKaos said:
This is pure assumption, a substantial number of people who have been killed include government soldiers, Alawites, Christians and those refusing to join the rebellion - all executed by the FSA. The numbers being chucked around have no contextual backing to them. And a lot of those killed by the regime are terrorists, many of them not even Syrian.

And to add to your 'terrorism' point: Al-Qaeda's integration within the FSA is the worst kept secret in Syria now not to mention their frequent suicide attacks on civilian areas - I'd say that pretty much registers as daylight terrorism to me.
Click to expand...

Pounding cities with helicopter gunships, tanks, and artillery suggests Assad is responsible for a vast majority of the deaths in the conflict. The Alqaeda stories are merely a way for Assad apologists to justify his campaign of mass murder on the Syrian population.
 
why would thousands of Syrians be ready to risk their lives if Assad is not a despot. An uprising cannot have such 'life' unless it had support of ordinary people.

I remember his father was another 'hard man' but at least he was not this desperate.
 
Raoul said:
Pounding cities with helicopter gunships, tanks, and artillery suggests Assad is responsible for a vast majority of the deaths in the conflict. The Alqaeda stories are merely a way for Assad apologists to justify his campaign of mass murder on the Syrian population.
Click to expand...

And IEDs, suicide bombings, mortars and organised executions don't amount for much deaths either?

The Al-Qaeda 'stories' aren't just stories, its always been as clear as daylight that they're involved in the Syrian insurgency. The FSA have even stopped denying it now and showering them with praises for their 'warrior spirit'. Look at the footage and photos - their flag is littered all over the place.
 
RedKaos said:
And IEDs, suicide bombings, mortars and organised executions don't amount for much deaths either?

The Al-Qaeda 'stories' aren't just stories, its always been as clear as daylight that they're involved in the Syrian insurgency. The FSA have even stopped denying it now and showering them with praises for their 'warrior spirit'. Look at the footage and photos - their flag is littered all over the place.
Click to expand...

The fact remains that a vast majority of deaths are directly attributed to Assad - both through his use of military hardware against his own cities and through his delusional missteps in the beginning of the conflict in not instituting reforms when he had the chance. At this point its too late for him.
 
RedKaos said:
The Al-Qaeda 'stories' aren't just stories, its always been as clear as daylight that they're involved in the Syrian insurgency.
Click to expand...

What a surprise. Once again, Western governments (and these reactionary feudal absolute monarchies, Gulf states) allied with Islamist terrorists, provocateurs, mercenaries, wahhabi fanatics and corrupt NGO's. You'd think they'd learn some lessons form the support for, arms supplies to, the mujaheddin.

Raoul said:
The fact remains that a vast majority of deaths are directly attributed to Assad
Click to expand...

Which sources are credible to verify this? Which sources contain valid, reliable information?
 
skeeta said:
What a surprise. Once again, Western governments (and these reactionary feudal absolute monarchies, Gulf states) allied with Islamist terrorists, provocateurs, mercenaries, wahhabi fanatics and corrupt NGO's. You'd think they'd learn some lessons form the support for, arms supplies to, the mujaheddin.



Which sources are credible to verify this? Which sources contain valid, reliable information?
Click to expand...

I use BBC and CNN.
 
Raoul said:
I use BBC and CNN.
Click to expand...

No sources, including those two have verified the number of deaths on each sides. All we know is that a lot of Syrians have died but we don't know these precise weighing of the deaths.
 
RedKaos said:
No sources, including those two have verified the number of deaths on each sides. All we know is that a lot of Syrians have died but we don't know these precise weighing of the deaths.
Click to expand...

The running death count has been estimated to be around 17000, most of which are civilians that have been killed by the government. There's no getting around that one.
 
Raoul said:
The running death count has been estimated to be around 17000, most of which are civilians that have been killed by the government. There's no getting around that one.
Click to expand...

Civilians have been killed on both sides. A lot of these 'civilians' on the rebel side have actually been armed militias wearing civilian clothing but are nevertheless counted as civilians.
 
RedKaos said:
Civilians have been killed on both sides. A lot of these 'civilians' on the rebel side have actually been armed militias wearing civilian clothing but are nevertheless counted as civilians.
Click to expand...

It's only in Gaza that all casualties are civilians, even when armed.
 
RedKaos said:
Civilians have been killed on both sides. A lot of these 'civilians' on the rebel side have actually been armed militias wearing civilian clothing but are nevertheless counted as civilians.
Click to expand...

Yes they have, but the majority have surely been killed through the use of professional military equipment capable of executing such high casualty figures.
 
Red Dreams said:
it suits their agenda.

stay strong.
Click to expand...

Agenda? Grow up mate, I've lived through Iraqi terrorism and know exactly the kind of horrific violence thats been inflicted by Islamic terrorists. So yes I do have an agenda against Al-Qaeda. You do realise the people you're siding with include the very same people that had murdered 3000 of your own countrymen and women a decade ago.

SS - I'm not calling you nor all members of the FSA terrorists. I'm stating the irrefutable fact that Al-Qaeda is part of the Syrian rebellion, to deny this would be delusional at this stage. I understand that many Syrians are outraged at the regime and would like serious reforms, but I'm also uneasy with how many of them are willing to trust and accommodate Islamic militants.
 
RedKaos said:
Agenda? Grow up mate, I've lived through Iraqi terrorism and know exactly the kind of horrific violence thats been inflicted by Islamic terrorists. So yes I do have an agenda against Al-Qaeda. You do realise the people you're siding with include the very same people that had murdered 3000 of your own countrymen and women a decade ago.

SS - I'm not calling you nor all members of the FSA terrorists. I'm stating the irrefutable fact that Al-Qaeda is part of the Syrian rebellion, to deny this would be delusional at this stage. I understand that many Syrians are outraged at the regime and would like serious reforms, but I'm also uneasy with how many of them are willing to trust and accommodate Islamic militants.
Click to expand...

lets cut out the nonsense come back of 'grow up mate'. I said you have an agenda, which you agree to.

I will grant you are closer to this than me.

My point is Al Queda or what ever group have their agenda and the rebels will take help from whoever. This is an all out civil war. What we need to ask is why should at least half the Syrians want Assad dead?

What happened in Eqypt and Lybia has not thrown up governments 'friendly' to Western Interests. But in the end it is their country and if the West respects their will, things will be normal when the dust settles.

People just want a better future for themselves and their families... And US policy tbh has not always put the interests of these people up front.
 
Red Dreams said:
lets cut out the nonsense come back of 'grow up mate'. I said you have an agenda, which you agree to.

I will grant you are closer to this than me.

My point is Al Queda or what ever group have their agenda and the rebels will take help from whoever. This is an all out civil war. What we need to ask is why should at least half the Syrians want Assad dead?

What happened in Eqypt and Lybia has not thrown up governments 'friendly' to Western Interests. But in the end it is their country and if the West respects their will, things will be normal when the dust settles.

People just want a better future for themselves and their families... And US policy tbh has not always put the interests of these people up front.
Click to expand...

OK, fair post.

Firstly my agenda is not anti-FSA nor pro-Assad, I bear no loyalty to either side since I'm neither Syrian nor Alawite nor Sunni. My agenda is strictly anti-Al Qaeda, regardless of whether their victims are US troops or Iraqi/Syrian civilians.

I'd agree in that Syria has needed serious reforms, perhaps with Assad making way for another - i'll concede as much, and any peaceful initiative by the Syrian people to pursue such a thing has my full support. However, when they start to accommodate Islamic Jihadists and take them in as their brothers allow them to mould this into a sectarian civil war, then thats when they lose my support.

Ultimately I support a secular, multicultural-Syria free from theocratic rule. The Al-Qaeda infested FSA are threatening that fabric and if they succeed it could pour over to neighbouring countries (and as an Iraqi, I don't want Al-Qaeda scouring across our borders again).

Now I ask you, what would your solution be to this catastrophic mess?
 
The big problem is Assad does not want to relinqish his absolute power, which he would have to do at least in part to accomodate reform. It is too late now. He needs to exit the stage ASAP. I feel he will end up like Quaddafi.

Unfortunately in a violent conflict, the worse elemets come to the fore. I don't think Al Queda will have a big say in the final new Syrian government. The Syrians have not been by and large a radical fundementalist type of people...but then again I suppose we can argue Iranians were not like that either..until ol Ayotollah took over. I dont know..

What I do know is the Syrians will decide what they want and if the West wants to start on a fresh footing with the 'new' Syria, we need to offer some 'help' in getting rid of Assad.

Funnily enough that would put the Dems and the GOP on the same side...amazing.
 
RedKaos said:
OK, fair post.

Firstly my agenda is not anti-FSA nor pro-Assad, I bear no loyalty to either side since I'm neither Syrian nor Alawite nor Sunni. My agenda is strictly anti-Al Qaeda, regardless of whether their victims are US troops or Iraqi/Syrian civilians.

I'd agree in that Syria has needed serious reforms, perhaps with Assad making way for another - i'll concede as much, and any peaceful initiative by the Syrian people to pursue such a thing has my full support. However, when they start to accommodate Islamic Jihadists and take them in as their brothers allow them to mould this into a sectarian civil war, then thats when they lose my support.

Ultimately I support a secular, multicultural-Syria free from theocratic rule. The Al-Qaeda infested FSA are threatening that fabric and if they succeed it could pour over to neighbouring countries (and as an Iraqi, I don't want Al-Qaeda scouring across our borders again).

Now I ask you, what would your solution be to this catastrophic mess?
Click to expand...

I thought you were in Beirut??
 
Red Dreams said:
The big problem is Assad does not want to relinqish his absolute power, which he would have to do at least in part to accomodate reform. It is too late now. He needs to exit the stage ASAP. I feel he will end up like Quaddafi.

Unfortunately in a violent conflict, the worse elemets come to the fore. I don't think Al Queda will have a big say in the final new Syrian government. The Syrians have not been by and large a radical fundementalist type of people...but then again I suppose we can argue Iranians were not like that either..until ol Ayotollah took over. I dont know..

What I do know is the Syrians will decide what they want and if the West wants to start on a fresh footing with the 'new' Syria, we need to offer some 'help' in getting rid of Assad.

Funnily enough that would put the Dems and the GOP on the same side...amazing.
Click to expand...

This is where I disagree. Now we have to ask ourselves why Al-Qaeda are getting involved, and I think we can both agree its not because they wish to help implement democracy in Syria from the goodness of their hearts. No, they want to establish an Islamic Caliphate - they saw Iraq as a ripe opportunity following the invasion but had failed, albeit not without leaving a violent and destructive footprint. So now they see Syria as the next ample opportunity - especially with an 'unIslamic' secular Alawite at the helm.

Now lets assume the FSA prove victorious and Assad is eventually gone. Do you think Al-Qaeda will happily sit back and let the Syrians pursue their democratic aspirations and go home after a job well done? No, I'd say they'd insist to be rewarded by Syrians adopting this Islamic caliphate and if they disagree....well we could have a repeat of Iraqi civil violence. Iraqi Sunnis have learnt that the hard way - some of them made the mistake of allying themselves with Al-Qaeda to fight the Shia-dominated Iraqi government, and now that most of them want out they're being 'punished' by Al-Qaeda for being 'traitorous' and 'cowards', and by punishments I'm talking horrible executions, public decapitations of tribal village leaders and bomb attacks on markets and schools.

Moral of the story is that you shouldn't, under any circumstances, ally yourself or even accept help from Al-Qaeda. Especially if you aspire to become a progressive democratic nation.
 
syrian_scholes said:
I thought you were in Beirut??
Click to expand...

Beirut has been my permanent residence for the last few years there and thats where I went high school. However I'm constantly shifting between Baghdad, Beirut, the UAE and London. I spent the last couple of months in Baghdad catering to my businesses and charities, and now I'm back in London where I'm currently working.
 
RedKaos said:
This is where I disagree. Now we have to ask ourselves why Al-Qaeda are getting involved, and I think we can both agree its not because they wish to help implement democracy in Syria from the goodness of their hearts. No, they want to establish an Islamic Caliphate - they saw Iraq as a ripe opportunity following the invasion but had failed, albeit not without leaving a violent and destructive footprint. So now they see Syria as the next ample opportunity - especially with an 'unIslamic' secular Alawite at the helm.

Now lets assume the FSA prove victorious and Assad is eventually gone. Do you think Al-Qaeda will happily sit back and let the Syrians pursue their democratic aspirations and go home after a job well done? No, I'd say they'd insist to be rewarded by Syrians adopting this Islamic caliphate and if they disagree....well we could have a repeat of Iraqi civil violence. Iraqi Sunnis have learnt that the hard way - some of them made the mistake of allying themselves with Al-Qaeda to fight the Shia-dominated Iraqi government, and now that most of them want out they're being 'punished' by Al-Qaeda for being 'traitorous' and 'cowards', and by punishments I'm talking horrible executions, public decapitations of tribal village leaders and bomb attacks on markets and schools.

Moral of the story is that you shouldn't, under any circumstances, ally yourself or even accept help from Al-Qaeda. Especially if you aspire to become a progressive democratic nation.
Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing that Al Queda will want to have a 'footprint' in Syria. But the Syrian military is just not going to accept everything Al Queda wants. In the end what will the new Syrian government look like? Will it include elements of a fundementalist movement? We don't know. The struggle now is for the voice of the people to be heard. They will decide and the military will follow their will.
What is obvious now is...they want Assad out. When that happens we will see the direction. I don't believe Al Queda can force anything the Syrian people don't want.
 
RedKaos said:
Beirut has been my permanent residence for the last few years there and thats where I went high school. However I'm constantly shifting between Baghdad, Beirut, the UAE and London. I spent the last couple of months in Baghdad catering to my businesses and charities, and now I'm back in London where I'm currently working.
Click to expand...

Your life sounds very interesting.

In normal times I could see it being fun...

Stay safe mate.
 
Red Dreams said:
Your life sounds very interesting.

In normal times I could see it being fun...

Stay safe mate.
Click to expand...

'Interesting' is certainly one way of putting it :lol: . But without trying to sound too much like a movie cliche, I know the streets pretty well so I'm OK most the time, appreciate the concern though mate.
 
I am sunni muslim so stop assuming im supporting assad because of some sectarian bs. Its surprising that more muslims in this thread are against these wahabi nutjobs while the liberal westeners are supporting them yet when these same dickheads calls for banning women from working or driving etc you expect regular muslims like me to speak out against it.
 
Hearing some real big explosions right now, I think it's shelling on some area in Damascus but I don't really know 100% what's happening..
 
syrian_scholes said:
Actually this one is done by the FSA, so they did wrong this time, although that guy deserves it imho.
Click to expand...

As long as government opponents execute their enemy in some back alleys, I cant really tell what's worse, Assad or what comes after him. That's the problem with people who want 'democracy'. Probably the most ambiguous, misunderstood, or misused word ever. See Libya. Same oppressive shit, different package.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.