Liverpool : General discussion

VorZakone said:
I think Liverpool seriously needs a rapid winger. Mané could actually be a great fit for Liverpool.
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What about Sterl... Never mind :D

But yeah, we could do with an improvement on Lallana for the system, with Lallana being a bench player capable of covering several positions. Perhaps Markovic will end up being that player - Perhaps we end up bring someone else in.

Whatever the case, our AM is stacked, and our strikers (when fit) are very good unit. A new winger, CM, CDM, and RCB would be my perfect Jan window. I know that's unrealistic, but the more we do in Jan, the less we need to do in the summer.
 
Adisa said:
You can't be too critical. A post at WHL is a good result no matter how you look at it.
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Especially given that they were ridiculously shorthanded. They definitely need a play-making centreback and maybe even two play-making defensive midfielders. Most chances for Spurs in the first half came from sloppy Liverpool passing in their own half. Going forward they need some pace. Ibe did pretty good, when he came on. Also only the best in the world can maintain a very high defensive workload without losing offensive effectiveness. That´s why I rate Mueller so highly. Lallana and Coutinho worked hard, but it hurt the other side of the ball imho. But at the end of the day City were hammered at WHL. Liverpool took a point with about half their top 15 players missing.
 
Skrtel, Mignolet and the defensive midfield are holding them back. Long may it continue.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Skrtel, Mignolet and the defensive midfield are holding them back. Long may it continue.
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Those all had decent games today. Not saying they don't need to be improved upon, though.

Skrtel was sold short once from a backpass from Clyne, but other than that was pretty solid throughout... However, he is the defender I want replaced. He's almost 31, and while he's a very good defender (yes), he's not going to improve from here. Mignolet made a bit of a faff getting it out of his feet once, but pulled out some very good saves to earn us a draw. Lucas did a good job in mid, but again, he's a player that needs to be upgraded.

Side note. As a shotstopper, I consider Mignolet to be good enough for us... Can the distribution, first touch & confidence be coached at his age to a more suitable level?
 
Tommy said:
Skrtel was sold short once from a backpass from Clyne, but other than that was pretty solid throughout... However, he is the defender I want replaced. He's almost 31, and while he's a very good defender (yes), he's not going to improve from here. Mignolet made a bit of a faff getting it out of his feet once, but pulled out some very good saves to earn us a draw. Lucas did a good job in mid, but again, he's a player that needs to be upgraded.

Side note. As a shotstopper, I consider Mignolet to be good enough for us... Can the distribution, first touch & confidence be coached at his age to a more suitable level?
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Haven't watched much of Clyne but whenever I'm see him play I do think he's a very good fullback. He's so strong physically and has decent concentration levels, so he seems quite in tune with the game at all times. How's he been?

As for Mignolet I was genuinely shocked that Liverpool went for him; he was your typical good shot stopper Premier League standard goalkeeper at Sunderland. I thought he would struggle and whilst he has in parts, to give him benefit of the doubt he has stepped up and raise his level considerably. He hasn't crumbled under the pressure and does more than his share in the box. I wonder how Klopp will feel about him? He's definitely good enough as a shot stopper and in his 6 yard box but how will Klopp's philosophy play with Mignolet's strengths and weaknesses?

And also how bad is his distribution/decision making in that regard? A lot of the times there are cases where you see a goalkeeper is completely uncomfortable with the ball at their feet but other times, the keeper is not bad at it but is made to look even worse because the passing options aren't there (i.e centre backs need to go wide and make that angle as soon as, to prevent pressing from opposition and create the angle).
 
That one lapse aside today, he looked pretty good throughout the match. Nothing outstanding, but he wasn't easily beaten (or constantly challenged). Could've offered more going forward.

His first touch & pace of decision is what lets him down. He'll control the ball poorly, and then leave too much time to pick a pass, leaving the only two options: to play a pass to a defender that's getting closed down, or to kick it into touch in the defensive half. He did that today, and it's not the first time he's done it this season.

In an ideal world, we'd have Reina's legs & Mignolet's hands. Perhaps then we'd have a great keeper on our hands. As things are, and looking back, he's still a worthwhile upgrade on Reina, who couldn't catch a cold towards the end of his time with us.
 
Can has always been a good centre midfielder. Why Rodgers never got that in his weird little Devito Penguin head I can never understand.
 
A correct judgement of how they play and how far they come s a month away at least. Right now every player is trying to impress him and do things his way, the new manager syndrome. Its the good feeling klopp has brought. Once you have that out of your system then we see real liverpool for good or bad.
 
Tommy said:
That one lapse aside today, he looked pretty good throughout the match. Nothing outstanding, but he wasn't easily beaten (or constantly challenged). Could've offered more going forward.

His first touch & pace of decision is what lets him down. He'll control the ball poorly, and then leave too much time to pick a pass, leaving the only two options: to play a pass to a defender that's getting closed down, or to kick it into touch in the defensive half. He did that today, and it's not the first time he's done it this season.

In an ideal world, we'd have Reina's legs & Mignolet's hands. Perhaps then we'd have a great keeper on our hands. As things are, and looking back, he's still a worthwhile upgrade on Reina, who couldn't catch a cold towards the end of his time with us.
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Aye, thought some of the criticism he received last year was very harsh.
 
Klopp cam.....Jesus Christ....

My best mate is a Liverpool fan and he's annoyed about this hype ffs. Although, he did show me a great vine of Joe Allen and Klopp

Fergie's retirement, the guy who done so much for English football and United, seems to pale in comparison to this bollix with Klopp.

Can't wait for Klopp cam at breakfast time....."Does he eat fried or grilled bacon?!" feck off
 
Tommy said:
That one lapse aside today, he looked pretty good throughout the match. Nothing outstanding, but he wasn't easily beaten (or constantly challenged). Could've offered more going forward.

His first touch & pace of decision is what lets him down. He'll control the ball poorly, and then leave too much time to pick a pass, leaving the only two options: to play a pass to a defender that's getting closed down, or to kick it into touch in the defensive half. He did that today, and it's not the first time he's done it this season.

In an ideal world, we'd have Reina's legs & Mignolet's hands. Perhaps then we'd have a great keeper on our hands. As things are, and looking back, he's still a worthwhile upgrade on Reina, who couldn't catch a cold towards the end of his time with us.
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I'd agree with all of that plus the fact that he can still be very dodgy on crosses and that often leads to chaos in the defence, blame there laying firmly on Ming's shoulders. The defence often takes the brunt of fans' (both opposition and home) derision however they are showing definite signs of improvement, Clyne and Gomez (and now the belated re-introduction of Sakho) has reduced the frequency of breaches.
Whether Ming can be the keeper we want I still have my doubts but a good shot-stopper is required first and foremost because that can't be taught (everything else bar confidence possibly can - see De Gea and where would United have been without him last season ? Playing EL football), a good shot-stopping keeper is often the match decider.

Now where are my post-Spurs stats ? Ah yes :
OptaJoe ‏@OptaJoe4h
13 - Simon Mignolet has kept more clean sheets than any other goalkeeper in the Premier League in 2015.
 
Why are people (especially United fans) so desperate to see some sort of non-existent improvement in Liverpool and going so far as to predict a title challenge? They were fecking shite yesterday.
 
Way too many overreactions in this thread. They had about five starting XI players out and were up against a decent Spurs team. It was never going to be a great performance, Klopp has only had them in training for about three days. They'll get better eventually. Shouldn't bother us as long as we stay ahead of them though.
 
Akash said:
Why are people (especially United fans) so desperate to see some sort of non-existent improvement in Liverpool and going so far as to predict a title challenge? They were fecking shite yesterday.
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Some MUFC fans believe that he is the best manager in the World. I was discussing with 1 MUFC on this forum who said LVG could be under pressure because of Klopp, which I thought was strange.

If LFC had hired Guardiola, Mourinho or Ancelotti and they were in their 2nd season, I'd be worried that they could finish ahead of us. But Klopp is not in the same league as these managers.
I actually think that Klopp would've been a great candidate for Bayern (due to his Bundesliga experience), but in the EPL - it's all new to him, so I think it'll take him at least 2 years, just get on par with most EPL managers (including Rodgers).
To win the title in 4 years - that would be difficult, if he was given £400M to spend on players.
Without a huge cash injection, I think it'll be almost impossible.

Remember, Man City and Chelsea only won the league (having not won it for a long time), after spending huge sums of money. I'm not sure if LFC will be getting that sort of money.
 
So many people have talked about the injuries without looking at the fact that Spurs were missing Dier, Son, Bentaleb, Mason and even Chadli got injured in the first 10 minutes.
 
steve9 said:
To be perfectly honest I think there is no league more overestimated than the EPL. If you asked today managers from around Europe who are the best 10 footballers in Europe, I would guess that not even one of that top ten is even playing in the EPL, despite all that money.

But this is not meant as a rant against English football, which I find entertaining, but just not quality, though. I just want to illustrate my point: In the EPL there is so much money thrown around for mediocre players, that I can call it only ridiculous. Honestly: No club outside the EPL was even considering Pedro at more than maybe GBP 5 million. And the ten's of millions that's spread around for average English players, who would be benched at mid table Spanish or German clubs?

So, yes, I do believe that a good manager with less money but with knowledge and smart transfers can win the league, even in England.
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Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide.

BPL overrated, please stop talking shite to try and back up your faltering points, we have the strongest most competitive league and lower tiered leagues in the world.
 
SirBobbysCombover said:
Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide.

BPL overrated, please stop talking shite to try and back up your faltering points, we have the strongest most competitive league and lower tiered leagues in the world.
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Depay?
 
@steve9
The last team to break the monopoly in the premier league was Blackburn and they did chuck lots of money (relatively speaking)

This notion that good coaching will make up the gap is a bit of a stretch, going by the evidence
 
Suedesi said:
Make no mistake, Klopp will improve LFC, and deliver the title in 3-4 years. Let's just hope they don't make top 4 this year though.
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I don't see it happening myself.

I don't see them hitting top four this year, in the summer either Jose will be gone at Chelsea or be handed a sackful of cash for new players, either way they will be better than this year.
Arsenal, City, Chelsea and probably United making up the top four this year, Liverpool to spend a decent amount on more mediocre players, being outgunned on the better ones, Klopp to hang around for two to three seasons before going elsewhere.

Akash said:
Why are people (especially United fans) so desperate to see some sort of non-existent improvement in Liverpool and going so far as to predict a title challenge? They were fecking shite yesterday.
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WE.ARE.WORRIED.

Apparently.
 
I thought Liverpool were very poor on the ball yesterday. Zero quality shown, despite the good result.
 
Klopp will be done with them in a few years, he'll end up at Bayern or Madrid. Will he win them a title? I doubt it, they'll push for the top 4 and probably make it in a couple of times. An FA and or a CO Cup isn't too far fetched either. There are bigger problems at Liverpool than just the players, that will take time for it all to be rectified. There needs to be wholesale changes to the club with the way they operate before they can even dream of being back in the elite. Klopp will done with them before those needed changes ever happen.
 
Kloop to Liverpool has been surrounded by a whirlwind of hype, and if he achieves anything with the current Liverpool squad he deserves it.

Klopp's aggressive, high energy, counter attacking style simply does not suit the players Liverpool has right now. Sturridge has the pace needed but he's always injured though. Jordan Ibe is the only other quick forward player Liverpool has. Phillipe Coutinho has decent acceleration but he's no Raheem Sterling. Henderson has decent running but work horses like Milner...

Before Liverpool become a real threat Klopp is going to have to recycle out a lot of his current squad. Klopp says he wants a title within four years? That would be a staggering achievement given where he has started.
 
#07 said:
Kloop to Liverpool has been surrounded by a whirlwind of hype, and if he achieves anything with the current Liverpool squad he deserves it.

Klopp's aggressive, high energy, counter attacking style simply does not suit the players Liverpool has right now. Sturridge has the pace needed but he's always injured though. Jordan Ibe is the only other quick forward player Liverpool has. Phillipe Coutinho has decent acceleration but he's no Raheem Sterling. Henderson has decent running but work horses like Milner...

Before Liverpool become a real threat Klopp is going to have to recycle out a lot of his current squad. Klopp says he wants a title within four years? That would be a staggering achievement given where he has started.
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Yup.
 
SirBobbysCombover said:
Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide.

BPL overrated, please stop talking shite to try and back up your faltering points, we have the strongest most competitive league and lower tiered leagues in the world.
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Pretty much none of those would get into any team in the world. Silva and Sanchez might.
 
SirBobbysCombover said:
Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide.

BPL overrated, please stop talking shite to try and back up your faltering points, we have the strongest most competitive league and lower tiered leagues in the world.
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:lol:

The marketing works
 
SirBobbysCombover said:
Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide.

BPL overrated, please stop talking shite to try and back up your faltering points, we have the strongest most competitive league and lower tiered leagues in the world.
Click to expand...

:lol: This guy got promoted?
 
SirBobbysCombover said:
Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide.

BPL overrated, please stop talking shite to try and back up your faltering points, we have the strongest most competitive league and lower tiered leagues in the world.
Click to expand...

You listed 12 players and then said they are top 10 in the world.

FFS.

And you included Fabregas, Depay and Martial and Shaw and Sterling.

FFS.


just....


FFS.
 
SirBobbysCombover said:
Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide.

BPL overrated, please stop talking shite to try and back up your faltering points, we have the strongest most competitive league and lower tiered leagues in the world.
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
SirBobbysCombover said:
Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide.

BPL overrated, please stop talking shite to try and back up your faltering points, we have the strongest most competitive league and lower tiered leagues in the world.
Click to expand...

Now that's some hard to argue, well thought argument!
 
#07 said:
Before Liverpool become a real threat Klopp is going to have to recycle out a lot of his current squad. Klopp says he wants a title within four years? That would be a staggering achievement given where he has started.
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We've been recycling for years. Evidently we've been using managers that have no idea how.

Surely it's not that difficult a task for an experienced expert proven in the field. That's my hope anyway. We don't need to buy big, just good (and suitable for the philosophy).
 
B20 said:
You listed 12 players and then said they are top 10 in the world.

FFS.

And you included Fabregas, Depay and Martial and Shaw and Sterling.

FFS.


just....


FFS.
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Clutching at straws now eh lads, let's carry on as I can happily blow your stupid preconceptions out of the water.
All the players I listed above are highly coveted or would be a star or potential star attraction in leagues worldwide.
 
So if we are to look at Klopp's 4-2-3-1 as the blueprint, who are the corresponding Liverpool players (and potential signings)? I'm looking at a Lucas/Henderson partnership in the CM, with Lucas executing Kehl's role and Henderson playing something of a Gundogan role. That leaves Milner, who for me is an inferior player to Henderson. I don't think he will have as big a future under Klopp as some think, for me he will be reduced to a Grosskreutz type of role on the wings at best. He's a very poor CM. It's unfortunate for Danny Ings to have gotten injured as for me he would definitely have been one of the 3 behind Sturridge or Benteke.
 
SirBobbysCombover said:
Clutching at straws now eh lads, let's carry on as I can happily blow your stupid preconceptions out of the water.
All the players I listed above are highly coveted or would be a star or potential star attraction in leagues worldwide.
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You sir, are a buffoon. And it is against my better judgement to argue with you. Nevertheless, what you piut out it out there is so obviously ridiculous, there is a chance even you might see how foolish you are.

"Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide."​

First of all, you named 12 players for your world top 10 - But let's start with players you omitted that obviously should be ahead of these players in any given top 10 - Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Ronaldo.

And then let's add to this players like Bale, Modric, Benzema, Pogba, Robben, Zlatan, Reus, Thiago Silva, Ramos, James, Lewandowski, Alaba, Alves, Busquets, Lahm - And you have to question how many would make the remaining six spots on that top 10 list. Aguero, Silva and Sanchez have valid claims in the aforementioned company. That's about it.

Now for the claim that they'd "walk into any team, league, worldwide":

Sanchez got sold from Barcelona because he would no longer be first choice. Fabregas was sold from Barcelona having failed to nail down a first team spot. Given this, I think we can safely assume all of Hazard, Depay, Fabregas, Sanchez, Martial, Costa and De Bruyne would fail to make their strongest XI. A case could maybe be made for Aguero or Silva, but all things considered it is most likely they'd warm the bench there as well behind Messi, Neymar and Suarez.

Silva and Aguero might get games for Madrid. But otherwise, none of the aforementioned would start for them either. Same story for Bayern really, though perhaps Sanchez could start for them as well.

Would Shaw start ahead of the likes of Alaba, Marcelo, lahm or Alba? Maybe Alba...

Kompany might get a game at Barcelona, but that'd be it as well for him chances.

Finally, with all the names that are listed in just this post alone, it needs highlighting that you mentioned players like "Shaw, Depay, Sterling, Costa and Martial as "top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide." That is shamefully ignorant and even in the context of your general tomfoolery, you need to give your head a wobble for that.
 
B20 said:
You sir, are a buffoon. And it is against my better judgement to argue with you. Nevertheless, what you piut out it out there is so obviously ridiculous, there is a chance even you might see how foolish you are.

"Aguero
Sterling
Depay
Silva
Hazard
Fabregas
Company
Martial
Costa
De Bruyne
Shaw
Sanchez

I would say the players above are top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide."​

First of all, you named 12 players for your world top 10 - But let's start with players you omitted that obviously should be ahead of these players in any given top 10 - Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Ronaldo.

And then let's add to this players like Bale, Modric, Benzema, Pogba, Robben, Zlatan, Reus, Thiago Silva, Ramos, James, Lewandowski, Alaba, Alves, Busquets, Lahm - And you have to question how many would make the remaining six spots on that top 10 list. Aguero, Silva and Sanchez have valid claims in the aforementioned company. That's about it.

Now for the claim that they'd "walk into any team, league, worldwide":

Sanchez got sold from Barcelona because he would no longer be first choice. Fabregas was sold from Barcelona having failed to nail down a first team spot. Given this, I think we can safely assume all of Hazard, Depay, Fabregas, Sanchez, Martial, Costa and De Bruyne would fail to make their strongest XI. A case could maybe be made for Aguero or Silva, but all things considered it is most likely they'd warm the bench there as well behind Messi, Neymar and Suarez.

Silva and Aguero might get games for Madrid. But otherwise, none of the aforementioned would start for them either. Same story for Bayern really, though perhaps Sanchez could start for them as well.

Would Shaw start ahead of the likes of Alaba, Marcelo, lahm or Alba? Maybe Alba...

Kompany might get a game at Barcelona, but that'd be it as well for him chances.

Finally, with all the names that are listed in just this post alone, it needs highlighting that you mentioned players like "Shaw, Depay, Sterling, Costa and Martial as "top 10 & would walk into any team, league, worldwide." That is shamefully ignorant and even in the context of your general tomfoolery, you need to give your head a wobble for that.
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Tl;dr
 
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