Liverpool 2018/19

By how many points will Liverpool win the title this season?

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Nope. Are you saying your midfield is not as good as Chelsea's? Don't go by names, look at the performances. Milner is currently one of the best midfielders in the league and in CL as well. Sublimely intelligent player. Henderson was an intercepting and tackling machine in your PSG game, and Wijnaldum has improved a lot since his initial days.

Your current trio are so good that they can keep Naby Keita on the bench if their form persists. And you have Fabinho who can play in midfield for depth.

I'd say your midfield is the second best in the league. Chelsea's is almost as good, but I'll give you extra points for more depth.
Once again, that's not how it works. You just proved that Klopp already has our midfielders playing above their actual abilities, or otherwise lifted them to another level they never reached in their career so far. Wich means Klopp is doing an outstanding job, better than the other managers in the league. Just imagine what he could do with players who are actually as good or have as much potential as Chelsea's midfielders.

You'll find very few people who agree that Henderson-Milner-Wijnaldum is superior to Jorginho-Kante-Kovacic/Fabregas. In fact, almost none. That's because the latter is undoubtedly a much better midfield. If our midfield is currently playing better than them, it's down to the manager.
 
That's true. But have you become richer relative to the other top clubs? The league is becoming more and more competitive now. Spurs are in a much better state than in 2009, City are on an entirely different level to you financially wise, United are willing to splash the cash. FSG are good owners but will they be able to compete over the next years? I'm not sure. Time will tell. What I'm sure of is that to project trends from the last 2-3 years on the next years is a highly dubious exercise. Next season can always be worse than the previous, there's no guarantee for "progress".

Well yes, that's undeniably true. Manchester United are a classic example of this. When Ferguson retired just over 5 years ago the feeling on here was everything would be OK because the club had the funds to compete at the very highest level. We now know that money alone isn't the answer. I suppose the big question is, at what point does a club, & it's supporters, say enough is enough when that progression turns to regression ? Benitez's Liverpool side of 2009 has been used as an example of how quickly things can change. But as was the case with quite a few Liverpool sides over the past 20 to 30 years, that was another one that was heavily reliant on individuals, & when those individuals didn't perform or went through a bad patch, it generally meant the whole team did likewise. So the reason I'm very optimistic at the moment is that what I now see at Anfield, is a team that has good individuals, however it's main strength is that is a good team first. It's something I've not seen since our title winning days. We now have good players right across the squad as opposed to 2 or 3 top class ones & the rest a bunch of average Joe's. So my feeling is, is that unless we see a sudden decline the way we saw under Rafa, then an occasional sub-standard season with Klopp won't mean he, or the team, is finished. Progress charts don't always show a steady upward curve. Same goes for successful managers.
 
I'm sick and tired of Liverpool fans trying to play this all down. Even the Liverpool pundits and media are all holding back and not daring to say Liverpool will win it. It's like they don't want to jinx it or something. At the moment Liverpool are second favourites with all the bookies and the odds are shortening each week they win. In the next few weeks they will face Chelsea and City, and it wouldn't surprise no one if they win both games and all of a sudden the gap at the top will start opening up and the bookies will have Liverpool favourites. Klopp can try and manupilate all the fans into thinking a top 4 finish is progress, but he knows deep down if the title is not won, questions will be asked!

& if we came on here shouting the odds about how great we are & the quadruple is only a matter of time you'd say we were deluded & arrogant.
 
Liverpool finished 20+ points behind City last season. If they manage to finish 5-10 points behind them this one, shouldn't this be called progress?
 
Liverpool finished 20+ points behind City last season. If they manage to finish 5-10 points behind them this one, shouldn't this be called progress?
Well if City finish on 85 points then that means we're finishing on 75 points again, and we would've spent all that money with no points improvement in the league.

If City hit 100 again and we hit 90 then that's improvement but I don't think City will be as good this season.
 
Liverpool finished 20+ points behind City last season. If they manage to finish 5-10 points behind them this one, shouldn't this be called progress?
Progress should be assessed irrespective of how others perform. If we get more points than last year, objectively that's progress.

It's all about how it's perceived though, and the manner of which it's achieved. Realistically we can't expect another CL final this seaso so that would be regression if you following the above reasoning.
 
How do you know that this current Liverpool team isn’t Klopp’ peak, and you’ll go backwards? The idea that Klopp will just continue pushing Liverpool forward is deeply flawed. Especially when you’ve recently sold players like Suarez and Coutinho.

Anything's possible I suppose. However it would be highly unusual for a youngish team where many of the players have yet to hit their prime years to suddenly 'go backwards'. Generally speaking, they're more likely to improve.
 
Anything's possible I suppose. However it would be highly unusual for a youngish team where many of the players have yet to hit their prime years to suddenly 'go backwards'. Generally speaking, they're more likely to improve.

That's a reasonable point. You don't have a key player who is oldish, unless one counts Milner.
 
Well if City finish on 85 points then that means we're finishing on 75 points again, and we would've spent all that money with no points improvement in the league.

If City hit 100 again and we hit 90 then that's improvement but I don't think City will be as good this season.

Progress should be assessed irrespective of how others perform. If we get more points than last year, objectively that's progress.

It's all about how it's perceived though, and the manner of which it's achieved. Realistically we can't expect another CL final this seaso so that would be regression if you following the above reasoning.

I agree with both. What I find strange are opinions like "Klopp has to deliver and win something big this season, anything else should be considered a failure" - Liverpool aren't favorites for anything at the moment and finishing the season somewhere near the top should definitely be considered success and progress compared to seasons before.
 
Just read that we havent conceded a goal at Anfield in premier league since March. That must have us up there with the best defenses in Europe. Hope it continues vs Soton.
 
Just read that we havent conceded a goal at Anfield in premier league since March. That must have us up there with the best defenses in Europe. Hope it continues vs Soton.

You say since March, it's only 7 games and they were all against relegation fodder.
 
& if we came on here shouting the odds about how great we are & the quadruple is only a matter of time you'd say we were deluded & arrogant.
That's the whole point I'm making. You are a great team, which is killing me to admit. The odds are stacked so much in your favour to win the league, I just can't understand why no Liverpool fans are admiting this.
The title has not been retained for nearly 10 years, so City have that obstacle along with the pressure there players have to win the Champions league. Utd are just not good enough. Chelsea and Arsenal have new managers in charge. And Spurs have signed no one and going backwards.
Like it or not. You will be favourites in a few weeks. In my eyes you should be now.
 
:lol:

they cling on to anything dont they
That's one way to look at it. Another could be that we were a defensive mess not so long ago and, irrespective of opposition, keeping a clean sheet in seven consecutive home games is always a tough feat to accomplish in the Premier League, otherwise such streaks would pop up left right and centre for the big teams, but they don't.
 
The more impressive stat is that we haven't lost a home game in the league since April 2017. I think it's only one defeat against West Brom in the FA Cup since then.

Klopp's done well to make Anfield a daunting place to go.
 
I haven't watched Liverpool much but have been impressed with Joe Gomez when i have. Can someone more informed summarise his strengths and weaknesses based on current form, and let me know their thoughts about his future? How talented is he?
 
I haven't watched Liverpool much but have been impressed with Joe Gomez when i have. Can someone more informed summarise his strengths and weaknesses based on current form, and let me know their thoughts about his future? How talented is he?
I think his strengths are his pace and positioning when defending attacks coming through the middle. His passing into midfield and the forwards has been good as well.

His biggest weakness for me is dealing with diagonal balls over the top. He seems to get a few of those wrong, allowing the attacking player to bypass and get in behind him. I've noticed it a few times.

He's had a very good start to the season so far. His pace is an asset.
 
That's one way to look at it. Another could be that we were a defensive mess not so long ago and, irrespective of opposition, keeping a clean sheet in seven consecutive home games is always a tough feat to accomplish in the Premier League, otherwise such streaks would pop up left right and centre for the big teams, but they don't.

We kept more clean sheets than anyone in the PL last season, didn't stop us knowing our defence wasn't anything special
 
I think his strengths are his pace and positioning when defending attacks coming through the middle. His passing into midfield and the forwards has been good as well.

His biggest weakness for me is dealing with diagonal balls over the top. He seems to get a few of those wrong, allowing the attacking player to bypass and get in behind him. I've noticed it a few times.

He's had a very good start to the season so far. His pace is an asset.

His positioning every now and again is questionable when a diagonal ball comes over but he's getting better at that. His composure on the ball when being pressed thought is fantastic.
 
We kept more clean sheets than anyone in the PL last season, didn't stop us knowing our defence wasn't anything special
Didn't stop you from proclaiming your GK as the best in the world which certainly helped to accomplish that.

Our defence isn't anything special, but they're good nonetheless, as proven by such statistics. That was not the case for a very long time.
 
You are contradicting yourself. Why should our season be considered a failure if we don't win the title when we are not even favourites to win the title in the first place?
If we weren't this cautious with self-proclaiming ourselves as the title favourite, you'd be "sick and tired" of all our gloating and over-enthousiasm instead of us trying to play it down. Which isn't even what we're doing, we're being sensible and telling it as it is - we should expect a title challenge with this squad but not one supporter, from any English club in fact, should expect a trophy at the beginning of the season, at least not for their season to be considered a succes/failure. Like I've said before, the notion that we need to win the title is ridiculous because we could end up with 95 points and not win it, which would still be a great fecking effort.
The bookies always make the team who have won the league the previous season favourites to retain it the following year (apart from Leicester). It's like they have some sort of duty to not disrespect there achievements in a couple of months. No team has retained the title in nearly 10 years. Even when Moyes took over utd, they were favourites to win the league with some bookies. They never analyise how a club are progressing or how the manager has got average players to play like a great team. For them it's all about 'they won the league by 19 points, so no team can claw that back in one season'.
I'm not saying it will be a failure if Liverpool don't win the league, but it will be a very big disappointment. Trust me, we Utd fans know how it all works.
 
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Didn't stop you from proclaiming your GK as the best in the world which certainly helped to accomplish that.

Our defence isn't anything special, but they're good nonetheless, as proven by such statistics. That was not the case for a very long time.

Our GK is the best in the world and it's nothing to do with stats
 
I think his strengths are his pace and positioning when defending attacks coming through the middle. His passing into midfield and the forwards has been good as well.

His biggest weakness for me is dealing with diagonal balls over the top. He seems to get a few of those wrong, allowing the attacking player to bypass and get in behind him. I've noticed it a few times.

He's had a very good start to the season so far. His pace is an asset.

I was really worried that long term injury would've really damaged his long term prospects, but I'm glad to be proven wrong.
 
Progress should be assessed irrespective of how others perform. If we get more points than last year, objectively that's progress.

It's all about how it's perceived though, and the manner of which it's achieved. Realistically we can't expect another CL final this seaso so that would be regression if you following the above reasoning.
Your 2nd paragpragh is key. Too many fans focus on a very simplified way of assessing progress.
 
That's the whole point I'm making. You are a great team, which is killing me to admit. The odds are stacked so much in your favour to win the league, I just can't understand why no Liverpool fans are admiting this.
The title has not been retained for nearly 10 years, so City have that obstacle along with the pressure there players have to win the Champions league. Utd are just not good enough. Chelsea and Arsenal have new managers in charge. And Spurs have signed no one and going backwards.
Like it or not. You will be favourites in a few weeks. In my eyes you should be now.

There's a few things you have to take into account when looking for the answer. Firstly, you have the - 'Lads, it's Liverpool' - factor. How many times have we flattered to deceive over the years only to fall flat on our arses when it really counts ? So it's understandable that the bruises we have on our backsides serve as a timely reminder at how things have gone wrong on numerous other occasions just when it seems they are finally going right. Secondly. We're on a Manchester United forum. Therefore we have to be mindful of that fact before posting anything that might be seen as some as gloating or wumming. We're given a lot more leeway on here than United fans would have on Liverpool sites, so I'd say that most of us appreciate that. Finally. With age & experience I've learn't never to take anything for granted no matter how certain it seems. Stevie's slip in 2014 is one example. & then there's United winning their first 10 league games of the 1985/6 season, only to end up finishing 4th that same season. So maybe the time for us to start shouting the odds is when we've shown we're capable of keeping our current form up for most of the season & we have the silverware to prove it. Until then there's only just cause for us to be optimistic, nothing more.
 
The bookies always make the team who have won the league the previous season favourites to retain it the following year (apart from Leicester). It's like they have some sort of duty to not disrespect there achievements in a couple of months. No team has retained the title in nearly 10 years. Even when Moyes took over utd, they were favourites to win the league with some bookies. They never analyise how a club are progressing or how the manager has got average players to play like a great team. For them it's all about 'they won the league by 19 points, so no team can claw that back in one season'.
I'm not saying it will be a failure if Liverpool don't win the league, but it will be a very big disappointment. Trust me, we Utd fans know how it all works.

It's weight of money that determine the odds on an outcome. If a horse romps home in a race the way City did in the league last year it's probably going to be a very strong favourite in it's next race. Football is a bit more linear than horse racing too, as each horse race is different & many other factors are taken into consideration such as the strength & form of the other horses, weather, course conditions etc. Man City are quite rightly strong favourites simply based on the fact that they were considerably better than the rest of the field last season. Not forgetting also that they still have the same manager & have strengthened even further.
 
We kept more clean sheets than anyone in the PL last season, didn't stop us knowing our defence wasn't anything special

That explains why Jose plays a more pragmatic style than the all out attack United fans are used to. It also probably explains his frustration at not being able to remedy it back in last summer's transfer window. The fact that out of the top 6 last season, only Chelsea scored fewer goals than United, shows that JM still doesn't have complete faith with his back 4 in order to allow his team to play a more attacking game.
 
The bookies always make the team who have won the league the previous season favourites to retain it the following year (apart from Leicester). It's like they have some sort of duty to not disrespect there achievements in a couple of months. No team has retained the title in nearly 10 years. Even when Moyes took over utd, they were favourites to win the league with some bookies. They never analyise how a club are progressing or how the manager has got average players to play like a great team. For them it's all about 'they won the league by 19 points, so no team can claw that back in one season'.
I'm not saying it will be a failure if Liverpool don't win the league, but it will be a very big disappointment. Trust me, we Utd fans know how it all works.

This Man City side had the best PL season ever last year. Certainly from a statistical point of view they did. Pep creates machines that roll over 90% of sides and churn points out for fun. He retained the league twice in a row in Spain, same in Germany. He can certainly do it at least once in England.

Plus we've been cursed with awful fortune when it comes to getting over the line in recent years. That's conditioned a lot of us to expect the worst. It really wouldn't surprise me if Van Dijk tore his ACL next week, and Sallah was ran over by some crazy Evertonian.
 
We kept more clean sheets than anyone in the PL last season, didn't stop us knowing our defence wasn't anything special

Everyone knows your defence is nothing special. David De Gea is though, and should explain many of those clean sheets.
 
There's a few things you have to take into account when looking for the answer. Firstly, you have the - 'Lads, it's Liverpool' - factor. How many times have we flattered to deceive over the years only to fall flat on our arses when it really counts ? So it's understandable that the bruises we have on our backsides serve as a timely reminder at how things have gone wrong on numerous other occasions just when it seems they are finally going right. Secondly. We're on a Manchester United forum. Therefore we have to be mindful of that fact before posting anything that might be seen as some as gloating or wumming. We're given a lot more leeway on here than United fans would have on Liverpool sites, so I'd say that most of us appreciate that. Finally. With age & experience I've learn't never to take anything for granted no matter how certain it seems. Stevie's slip in 2014 is one example. & then there's United winning their first 10 league games of the 1985/6 season, only to end up finishing 4th that same season. So maybe the time for us to start shouting the odds is when we've shown we're capable of keeping our current form up for most of the season & we have the silverware to prove it. Until then there's only just cause for us to be optimistic, nothing more.

Good post. Much as I hate Liverpool. ;)
 
I'm just glad theres a top team in City to challenge/beat them to the title this season. 13/14 all over fecking again.
 
Since when did Wijnaldum decide to become a fecking top CM? He's amazing this season.
 
I'm just glad theres a top team in City to challenge/beat them to the title this season. 13/14 all over fecking again.

Chelsea too. They're looking quality so far.

Speaking of Chelsea, the League Cup game isn't something I want us to take seriously. Bench our entire starting front 3, go with Sturridge/Shaqiri/Lallana, give Fabinho & a few others some time in midfield.

Maybe it's a weak way of looking at things, seeing as how we're seen to have a squad that can compete now, but I'd take a battering in the cup & a positive result next weekend over any other alternative offered. Plus we've a tough CL game away to Napoli the week after, so yeah, give our top players a break.
 
Chelsea too. They're looking quality so far.

Speaking of Chelsea, the League Cup game isn't something I want us to take seriously. Bench our entire starting front 3, go with Sturridge/Shaqiri/Lallana, give Fabinho & a few others some time in midfield.

Maybe it's a weak way of looking at things, seeing as how we're seen to have a squad that can compete now, but I'd take a battering in the cup & a positive result next weekend over any other alternative offered. Plus we've a tough CL game away to Napoli the week after, so yeah, give our top players a break.
You're strolling through this supposedly hard run with ease. I'm a Chelsea and City fan for the next two weeks.
 
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