Liverpool 2018/19

[Random Task]

So why is it then, despite Jose's League Cup win, Europa League Cup win, & last season's 2nd place finish, a lot of United supporters are critical of him, whereas Spurs & Liverpool fans seem to be very content with their respective managers ?

Expectations.

After being spoiled by great football and multiple domestic league titles, CL titles, FA cups, League cups etc spanning across 3 decades, most of the fanbase now demand a trophy(s) and/or challenging for the title, whilst playing entertaining football, as the bare minimum of expectations. Anything less will result in discord among the fanbase, have a read of the top 10 threads in the United forum if you require evidence to the fact. We're victims of our own success.

Liverpool and Spurs fans by comparison are far more lenient with the expectations they place on their club. The majority of the time you're simply content to finish top 4. Although, expectations this season have risen exponentially following Klopp's spending spree over the summer. Liverpool fans now expect the man to deliver and rightly so. Why should you expect anything less?

 

[DannyCAFC]

One game against WHU and he's already more complete than Kante.

I would argue he is more complete and would have said that since his Leipzig days. he's got more to his game than Kante.

Doesn't necessarily make him a better player overall.

 

[el3mel]

I would argue he is more complete and would have said that since his Leipzig days. he's got more to his game than Kante.

Doesn't necessarily make him a better player. You are taking this quote in the wrong way.

Read the full quotes.

 

[Klopper76]

We haven’t conceded a league goal at Anfield since February (not loads of games but better than where we’ve been at before). We’re improving defensively but there’s a risk:reward element to Klopp’s style which makes me think we’ll need Alisson a few times this season.

I still think we’re lacking a quality CB to play next to Van Dijk.

 

[buck3y3nut]

Who cares about Dortmund anyway.

What has Klopp achieved during his time at Liverpool that Brenda and Rafa did not also achieve? The latter at least had a run at the title during their stints at the club, one of them even won the CL. Klopp is all promises at this point and nothing more than a fraud until proven otherwise.

This Liverpool team look like they might challenge this year, but only after Klopp went against his word spent an exorbitant amount of money in the transfer market. If he pulls it off this season, he will have done what a long line of managers before him have been doing since the inception of the premier league; buying league titles.

You can paint the picture any way you want.

As a Liverpool supporter, I think Klopp had come in and done a good job of building the team he wants. The owners have finally found a manager that suits their ambitions. FSG did something similar when they found a manager for the Red Sox as well. They invested heavily in quality players there and the Red Sox ended their World Series winning drought. I know it's not the same sport, but the similarities are there (even with the respective stadia).

Compare the bench we had when Rodgers was here vs what we have now. As someone mentioned, quality costs money and the owners realized that. I'm not getting super excited about the season, only cause I've been burned before, but season after season under Klopp, we have moved in a positive direction. And that to me is progress.

To call Klopp a fraud is a bit unfair. With that regards, many touted managers would be that, Fraud. Yes he maybe a bit over the top with his celebrations but he clearly enjoys what he does.

It really seems like the caf here holds onto one statement he made with regards to Pogba. And that's ok, but to judge his entire managerial ability based on what he says is a bit daft. With that regards, Mourinho would just be known for his whining and moaning. But he is a winner and if I were to say ''does Mourinho enjoy cheese with his whine?" - most would have my head here

 

[IrishRedDevil]

We haven’t conceded a league goal at Anfield since February

Without talking about months which is a bit silly, how many games is that?

 

[B20]

Salty is not the word. What will happen on here if we actually win something. They'll fecking ban the lot of us, even you who has been on here longer than most of the manc posters.

For sure. I was banned for a long time back in 2005.

 

[HerrLeinad]

One game against WHU and he's already more complete than Kante.

Yes because he has only played football since he is in Liverpool...
He is obviously a more complete midfielder, he is actually a prime example of a great allround CM who has all necessary skills. He isn't such a force defensively like Kante but I'm sure it won't take long for english football fans to compare him to the likes of Iniesta, Modric etc., Bundesliga followers at least rate him that way which is why everyone was surprised that he chose Liverpool so early because an offer from Bayern, Barca and so on would only have been a question of time but cudos to Liverpool to getting him early.

 

[B20]

I would argue he is more complete and would have said that since his Leipzig days. he's got more to his game than Kante.

Doesn't necessarily make him a better player overall.

It might though. He's terrific.

 

[automaticflare]

Was a good win today. Any other PL era and I'd be eyeing the title optimistically. Will need about 90 points minimum to challenge this Man City though, which would require a hell of a lot of good fortune.

Same is true for anyone at moment. The media narrative on united at moment would lead you to believe that we had 81 points last season, It is always flipped to say finished 19 behind without anything noting city had the best season ever seen in the premier league. Imo unlikely to be matched any time soon.

I think mendy coming back actually makes city stronger again think he is a brilliant leftfull. I think they will win it again but not quite reach the points haul of last season. but your right, to compete you need to be looking at 90 points minimum which is a massive ask

 

[redman5]

Expectations.

After being spoiled by great football and multiple domestic league titles, CL titles, FA cups, League cups etc spanning across 3 decades, most of the fanbase now demand a trophy(s) and/or challenging for the title as the bare minimum of expectations. Anything less will result in discord among the fanbase, have a read of the top 10 threads in the United forum if you require evidence to the fact. We're victims of our own success.

Liverpool and Spurs fans by comparison are far more lenient with the expectations they place on their club. The majority of the time you're simply content to finish top 4. Although, expectations this season have risen exponentially following Klopp's spending spree over the summer. Liverpool fans now expect the man to deliver and rightly so. Why should you expect anything less?

But you've won 2 trophies with Mourinho & came closest last season - albeit by some margin - to eventual champions Man City. So it's not just about expectations really is it ? It has just as much to do about style, or in United's case since Ferguson retired, the lack of it. I'd say the silverware won is only masking what a lot of your fans really feel about the direction your club is heading. Liverpool supporters, & I dare say Spurs fans too, are happy with the type of football our respective sides are playing, & believe that if we continue, success will come our way. So we all have expectations. Yours are based on what you've done in the past. Ours are based on what will hopefully come in the future.

 

[el3mel]

Yes because he has only played football since he is in Liverpool...
He is obviously a more complete midfielder, he is actually a prime example of a great allround CM who has all necessary skills. He isn't such a force defensively like Kante but I'm sure it won't take long for english football fans to compare him to the likes of Iniesta, Modric etc., Bundesliga followers at least rate him that way which is why everyone was surprised that he chose Liverpool so early because an offer from Bayern, Barca and so on would only have been a question of time but cudos to Liverpool to getting him early.

Did you even read the quotes or know who said them ?

 

[Random Task]

For sure. I was banned for a long time back in 2005.

Most of the Liverpool lads on the forum are at least aware that this is a United forum and tend to reign in the smugness somewhat. Most of the newer lot (specifically those who joined over the summer following Klopps splurge) seem to get a kick out of winding up the resident United fans, and when the mods ban them they wonder why.

@RobinLFC is quite annoying

 

[redman5]

Daniel Sturridge was the first substitute to come off the bench & score a league goal for Liverpool in nearly 12 months. The last player to do it was, err, Daniel Sturridge against Arsenal in our 4-0 win last August.

 

[Klopper76]

Without talking about months which is a bit silly, how many games is that?

As I said it’s not many. I don’t think we’ve played anyone decent in that time either, but it’s better than where we were. We used to struggle to keep a clean sheet against whoever we played.

We’ve got City in a few weeks so I’m sure they’ll get a couple of goals against us. Just depends if we can get a few more.

 

[TheReligion]

But you've won 2 trophies with Mourinho & came closest last season - albeit by some margin - to eventual champions Man City. So it's not just about expectations really is it ? It has just as much to do about style, or in United's case since Ferguson retired, the lack of it. I'd say the silverware won is only masking what a lot of your fans really feel about the direction your club is heading. Liverpool supporters, & I dare say Spurs fans too, are happy with the type of football our respective sides are playing, & believe that if we continue, success will come our way. So we all have expectations. Yours are based on what you've done in the past. Ours are based on what will hopefully come in the future.

Yeah cause United as a club have nothing to look forward to in the future.

You can always look at it this way. Despite the fact United are still transitioning from SAF, and two failed managers, they are still picking up more silverware and finishing higher than this all action fantastic Liverpool outfit.

 

[DonnieDarko]

Expectations.

After being spoiled by great football and multiple domestic league titles, CL titles, FA cups, League cups etc spanning across 3 decades, most of the fanbase now demand a trophy(s) and/or challenging for the title as the bare minimum of expectations. Anything less will result in discord among the fanbase, have a read of the top 10 threads in the United forum if you require evidence to the fact. We're victims of our own success.

Liverpool and Spurs fans by comparison are far more lenient with the expectations they place on their club. The majority of the time you're simply content to finish top 4. Although, expectations this season have risen exponentially following Klopp's spending spree over the summer. Liverpool fans now expect the man to deliver and rightly so. Why should you expect anything less?

That's why some see Klopp or Pochettino as better managers (over the past few years, at least). Klopp and Pochettino took ~Europa League level sides and elevated them to play CL football and sometimes compete for trophies. Mourinho took a side that's been recently winning titles and failed to deliver the same quality. Both Klopp and Mourinho are top-class managers, they just historically had different resources and circumstances, hence different results.
You all laugh at Klopp, but he has ~ the same amount of serious trophies as Simeone, and nobody would tell Simeone is a fraud, right?

You can't blame us for having lower expectations. One can't throw a truck of money at some Everton and expect them to immediately compete and win. Even City, with their unlimited budget and elite coaches, took years to become what they are now. We are moving in the right direction, and will start questioning things if we begin stagnating.

Anyway, on the game. Good performance generally, though TAA and Firmino were rusty. Keita was good, but not all that exceptional as you may think after checking pundits or twitter. He'll get better. Gomez worries me though, there's an occasional mistake in him. But while we can outscore the opposition I think it's a good moment to give him a chance to improve, so that we don't need to splash another 70m for inevitable Lovren replacement.
Also, I lost the plot in the last 20min as there was only one formal striker on the field and I didn't really understand who plays where, honestly. Glad it didn't backfire.

 

[TheReligion]

As I said it’s not many. I don’t think we’ve played anyone decent in that time either, but it’s better than where we were. We used to struggle to keep a clean sheet against whoever we played.

We’ve got City in a few weeks so I’m sure they’ll get a couple of goals against us. Just depends if we can get a few more.

How many

 

[RobinLFC]

I still think we’re lacking a quality CB to play next to Van Dijk.

This is my worry as well. Gomez is fine for games like these where we camp on the other team's half, but he simply isn't good enough to cope with the constant pressure the likes of City will bring. Lovren might be but it depends on form of the day, he cannot be relied upon for an entire year. A backup #9 and CB for the starting XI should be our next priorities in the transfer window - in the meantime, sign Mané to a new long-term contract.

 

[Klopper76]

Most of the Liverpool lads on the forum are at least aware that this is a United forum and tend to reign in the smugness somewhat. Most of the newer lot (specifically those who joined over the summer following Klopps splurge) seem to get a kick out of winding up the resident United fans, and when the mods ban them they wonder why.

@RobinLFC is quite annoying

There were a lot more Liverpool posters popping up over the summer tbf.

 

[RobinLFC]

How many

5 last season and 1 today: Newcastle, Watford, Bournemouth, Stoke, Brighton and West Ham. Not too impressive but considering our defensive issues in the past, it's certainly something worth mentioning as we are usually suspect to concede easy goals.

 

[Klopper76]

How many

No idea, I saw the stat on Twitter (it was to do with Van Dijk’s arrival and our defensive form since then) posted by Purely Football.

It’s only about 7 or 8 games but that’s an improvement from where we were.

We haven’t lost a home game in the league since January 2017. I’m waiting to see if Klopp can build on that foundation.

 

[TheReligion]

5 last season and 1 today: Newcastle, Watford, Bournemouth, Stoke, Brighton and West Ham. Not too impressive but considering our defensive issues in the past, it's certainly something worth mentioning as we are usually suspect to concede easy goals.

@Klopper76 should be a politician!

No goals conceded at home since February..

..6 games against relegation fodder.

Well played Sir

 

[automaticflare]

But you've won 2 trophies with Mourinho & came closest last season - albeit by some margin - to eventual champions Man City. So it's not just about expectations really is it ? It has just as much to do about style, or in United's case since Ferguson retired, the lack of it. I'd say the silverware won is only masking what a lot of your fans really feel about the direction your club is heading. Liverpool supporters, & I dare say Spurs fans too, are happy with the type of football our respective sides are playing, & believe that if we continue, success will come our way. So we all have expectations. Yours are based on what you've done in the past. Ours are based on what will hopefully come in the future.

That’s a bit rediculous to be honest and used the large point margin as a measure of our failure without nothing how good city actually were last year. Liverpool have been going on about their future for 20 odd years.

United have a very good young team and improved our midfield again with addition of Fred and bought one of the most sought after young full backs in Europe.

We already have the best keeper, and pogba who is world class, matic is one of the best shields in the league and lukaku is quality.

I wouldn’t be so worried about our future at all.

There is a media narrative that lots of folks are buying into.
We need to win our first 3 games and get over the dosastorous pre season prep.

We are lacking in final third on the right and lacking width from full backs with our inverted wingers both areas Jose tried to address this summer. It is obvious what our weaknesses are but there is a serious underestimation of our teams quality and potential

 

[automaticflare]

@Klopper76 should be a politician!

No goals conceded at home since February..

..6 games against relegation fodder.

Well played Sir

You can prove anything with stats!

 

[Tom Van Persie]

He's a very good manager of course but not an elite imo. Right now.

Agreed. How can a manager who hasn't won a trophy (not counting the German community shield here) since 2012 be elite? He's not in the same bracket as the likes of Mourinho, Guardiola, Simeone, Allegri etc.

 

[Klopper76]

@Klopper76 should be a politician!

No goals conceded at home since February..

..6 games against relegation fodder.

Well played Sir

7 games and we used to concede against relegation fodder.

You’re ignoring the point as always. We have improved defensively and Van Dijk is a big part of that. But we should’ve spent £65 million on Maguire and bought Pickford instead of Alisson right?

 

[nore1975]

JK has done a fine job so far at Liverpool and if he were to leave in the morning he would hand his successor a better team than what he inherited. We are exciting to watch. He has identified weaknesses as his tenure has gone on and brought in players to rectify same e.g. Alisson and Van Dijk. We still need another top class midfielder and for my mind a midfielder who can split a defence with a pass. If we can improve our consistency then we will run city close. Hard to judge against WHU as they were poor.

 

[Random Task]

But you've won 2 trophies with Mourinho & came closest last season - albeit by some margin - to eventual champions Man City. So it's not just about expectations really is it ? It has just as much to do about style, or in United's case since Ferguson retired, the lack of it. I'd say the silverware won is only masking what a lot of your fans really feel about the direction your club is heading. Liverpool supporters, & I dare say Spurs fans too, are happy with the type of football our respective sides are playing, & believe that if we continue, success will come our way. So we all have expectations. Yours are based on what you've done in the past. Ours are based on what will hopefully come in the future.

I edited my post shortly after and alluded directly to this point.

I disagree, it's all about expectations - what we are prepared to accept and what we are not. The United fanbase flat-out demands it all; entertaining football, trophies by the truckload and they want it with a cherry on top. Liverpool and United fans have very different levels of expectation (at least they did prior to the events of this summer).

Given the vast sums of money Klopp has spent in the transfer market, do you accept that he must challenge for the title this season?

 

[NoLogo]

No idea, I saw the stat on Twitter (it was to do with Van Dijk’s arrival and our defensive form since then) posted by Purely Football.

It’s only about 7 or 8 games but that’s an improvement from where we were.

We haven’t lost a home game in the league since January 2017. I’m waiting to see if Klopp can build on that foundation.

There is no doubt for me that VVD had a really positive infulence on your defensive stability. I feel now you need to add another quality defender that's a bit more agile and quicker than VVD to complete the setup. Someone like Bailly or Umtiti.

 

[TheReligion]

7 games and we used to concede against relegation fodder.

You’re ignoring the point as always. We have improved defensively and Van Dijk is a big part of that. But we should’ve spent £65 million on Maguire and bought Pickford instead of Alisson right?

Not sure what Alisson or Maguire have got to do with it? I'm lost?

 

[Klopper76]

Not sure what Alisson or Maguire have got to do with it? I'm lost?

Again?

 

[Klopper76]

There is no doubt for me that VVD had a really positive infulence on your defensive stability. I feel now you need to add another quality defender that's a bit more agile and quicker than VVD to complete the setup. Someone like Bailly or Umtiti.

I think we should’ve tried to bring someone in to be honest. There’s question marks over all of the other defenders we’ve got to partner Van Dijk.

 

[TheReligion]

Again?

It happens when people post random pointless meaningless things.. and statistics of the same nature

 

[RobinLFC]

Agreed. How can a manager who hasn't won a trophy (not counting the German community shield here) since 2012 be elite? He's not in the same bracket as the likes of Mourinho, Guardiola, Simeone, Allegri etc.

Worth noting that Klopp hasn't managed a European heavyweight unlike all of the managers you've mentioned (maybe apart from Simeone who made Atlético a contender himself). Allegri was considered a fecking joke at Milan and his appointment at Juve was met with a lot of criticism.

 

[TheReligion]

Worth noting that Klopp hasn't managed a European heavyweight unlike all of the managers you've mentioned (maybe apart from Simeone who made Atlético a contender himself). Allegri was considered a fecking joke at Milan and his appointment at Juve was met with a lot of criticism.

Dortmund?

 

[Klopper76]

It happens when people post random pointless meaningless things.. and statistics of the same nature

We’re talking about a side that has been wretched defensively over the last five/six years.

It was to point out that we are getting better defensively compared to where we were, and that Van Dijk is a big part of that. I’m pretty sure you suggested in January we would’ve been better off signing Maguire, which isn’t true is it? Maguire wouldn’t have had the same impact that Van Dijk has had.

 

[Klopper76]

Dortmund?

I don’t think they count. Weren’t they crap before he got there?

 

[christinaa]

That's why some see Klopp or Pochettino as better managers (over the past few years, at least). Klopp and Pochettino took ~Europa League level sides and elevated them to play CL football and sometimes compete for trophies. Mourinho took a side that's been recently winning titles and failed to deliver the same quality. Both Klopp and Mourinho are top-class managers, they just historically had different resources and circumstances, hence different results.
You all laugh at Klopp, but he has ~ the same amount of serious trophies as Simeone, and nobody would tell Simeone is a fraud, right?

You can't blame us for having lower expectations. One can't throw a truck of money at some Everton and expect them to immediately compete and win. Even City, with their unlimited budget and elite coaches, took years to become what they are now. We are moving in the right direction, and will start questioning things if we begin stagnating.

Anyway, on the game. Good performance generally, though TAA and Firmino were rusty. Keita was good, but not all that exceptional as you may think after checking pundits or twitter. He'll get better. Gomez worries me though, there's an occasional mistake in him. But while we can outscore the opposition I think it's a good moment to give him a chance to improve, so that we don't need to splash another 70m for inevitable Lovren replacement.
Also, I lost the plot in the last 20min as there was only one formal striker on the field and I didn't really understand who plays where, honestly. Glad it didn't backfire.

Klopp and Pochettino aren't anywhere near the likes of what Mourinho and other great managers have won in their career.

 

[Rob]

I edited my post shortly after and alluded directly to this point.

I disagree, it's all about expectations - what we are prepared to accept and what we are not. The United fanbase flat-out demands it all; entertaining football, trophies by the truckload and they want it with a cherry on top. Liverpool and United fans have very different levels of expectation (at least they did prior to the events of this summer).

Given the vast sums of money Klopp has spent in the transfer market, do you accept that he must challenge for the title this season?

I’ve asked this question before, but what does challenge mean in this case? We’re talking about City who today beat Arsenal away without breaking a sweat with a team that lacked Kompany, Otamendi, De Bruyne, Sane, Jesus, Silva etc. Realistically, noone’s competing with that. Not until Guardiola gets bored anyway.