Liverpool - 2017/18

Since defence is once again in relegation form, we'd all really profit from some luck once in a while.
But of course that's not happening. The refs have been atrocious in most games we've played this season (bar perhaps Roger East in our game against Burnley) and yesterday's officiating was absolutely criminal.

Mignolet is clearly being fouled at Leicester's first goal (MOTD commentator claimed our players were appealing for offside there, laughable), not to mention the whole thing started over Vardy's signature dive. Then the ref pulled 5 minutes of injury time out of his I'm-trying-to-create-a-media-narrative-rather-than-control-this-game ass, and thankfully for once in our miserable lives, the back four held on.

I really dislike this style of play, because every game looks like it could go wrong for us at any given moment, and there's always going to be something that will go wrong in a humiliating fashion.
But I'm not one of those people who think that with good defence we'd be right up there with Manchesters, because I seriously doubt Klopp's system is designed to have a decent defence.

Zonal defending is garbage, and you can see it every game we play, how the opposition uses it to pull our players out of position to score the goals our fans think are boring and predictable, yet at the same time scratch their heads over how the hell they've managed to score them.
I think there's no point buying a defender, because nobody can improve a defence that's been sacrificed in the name of attacking prowess.
Yes, Lovren is incredibly bad, in fact he could be the worst first-team defender that played for us in quite a while (I've thought about
Sotirios Kyrgiakos, but I think he was a far better defender overall), but at the same time he is not exactly playing in front of a solid defensive midfield unit, and fans also completely overlook the sheer amount of balls him and Matip clear on regular.

The attackers keep giving away the ball, and every minute or so one of those two has to come forward to head it away. Watch the games again and you'll see, it's a constant struggle for that central defence, and it really shouldn't be expected of them to deal with so many instances of lost possession. Midfield is weak as well. Henderson is good at passes and crosses, but that's about it. He's not a DM, neither are the other two. They're bullied by some of these other teams, yet fans always jump at the defence like it's their problem there's so many situations in which the opposition can suddenly attack us from deep. It's really not, and while they must improve, it's not just them that's in the wrong here, it's the midfield, it's attackers losing the 1v1s, and it's just our system in general that's making us struggle.
 
Phil Thompson was saying yesterday on soccer Saturday that Klopp let our best defender go in Sahko, and I don't always agree with the man but i do here. If we had kept him I think we could have easily transitioned into a 3-4-3 system to see how it goes. Our defence probably wasn't the best at the time but it was very stable when we went three at the back with Sahko, Skrtel and Can in 14-15. Utter joke and piss take that our defence is weaker now than when we played a way past it Skrtel and a slow midfielder as 2/3 of our centre backs. We are level on points with Spurs after getting some really hard fixtures out the way as well, so not much to complain about, huge win yesterday.
 
We're playing at around 65% of this team's current potential. Henderson periodically breaks out of zombie form to play like he did most of last season. And we look less miserable for it. Coutinho is back and so will Mane be.

Just need the midfield (Wijnaldum and Hendo mainly) to look after our shit back line better and we'll be up to 80-90%. Being only 5 points off top is amazing considering how unrecognisably shit we've been so far, barring the Arsenal game.
 
5 points is a big gap after 6 games. Anymore and you're looking at 3/4 losses from 6 which would be a disaster.
 
5 points is a big gap after 6 games. Anymore and you're looking at 3/4 losses from 6 which would be a disaster.
The game on the 13th of October is huge to the early titile race imo. After coming back from an international break (probably with injuries for both our sides) the winner of that game will most certainly get a huge confidence boost. Unless Jose brings his bus to Anfield two October's in a row, in which case draw...
 
The game on the 13th of October is huge to the early titile race imo. After coming back from an international break (probably with injuries for both our sides) the winner of that game will most certainly get a huge confidence boost. Unless Jose brings his bus to Anfield two October's in a row, in which case draw...

Ahh the bus myth!
 
Certainly wasn't a myth last season at Annfield or Ethiad IIRC

I don't recall Liverpool offering anything at Anfield (bar a long range effort saved by DDG) over 90 minutes. The bus thing suggests United were hanging on for dear life. Liverpool were toothless.
 
I don't recall Liverpool offering anything at Anfield (bar a long range effort saved by DDG) over 90 minutes. The bus thing suggests United were hanging on for dear life. Liverpool were toothless.

The bus thing suggests we parked the bus. Which we did.

They didn't create as much because well, we parked the bus.
 
5 points is a big gap after 6 games. Anymore and you're looking at 3/4 losses from 6 which would be a disaster.

How far behind were Chelsea at this stage last season after Liverpool were crowned unofficial league champions of September? Genuine question, what were the points?
 
Silly @Dumbstar
You should know that City are the perennial September champions.. Chelsea were 8 points behind after 6 games
 
We created as many chances as they did. I'm not even sure why it's a thing tbh.

I don't give a shit about chance creation. We set out to park the bus and hit them whenever we could counter, but we were far too deep and gave them too much respect.

Counter attacking is one thing but playing your 2 of your front 3 as full backs and then their full backs as ultra backs was stupid. I love our manager and I think his pragmatism is great, but I'l always look on the Ethiad and Anfield games as examples where we just gave them too much respect. Parking the bus belongs to clubs such as Real or Barcelona. Not fecking Liverpool. Hopefully we set out with a simple counter attack without playing too deep this time. Going by us playing a back 5 for 25 mins against the most toothless side in the Premiership in the last game (after Palace), I doubt it.
 
Silly @Dumbstar
You should know that City are the perennial September champions.. Chelsea were 8 behind after 6 games

Thank you. So 8 points behind with a dodgy as feck backline that won the league at a canter by, how many points again cyberman?
 
@Dumbstar
Its a shame that Chelsea completely altered the defensive shape of the side and went on to win the league with an entire new defensive approach isn't it?
That took Conte 4 weeks to sort out, meanwhile in Klopps 3rd season...
 
Thank you. So 8 points behind with a dodgy as feck backline that won the league at a canter by, how many points again cyberman?

Thing is, Chelsea had a coach who was one of the best at organising defenses and drilling a well disciplined unit. As soon as he switched to his favoured back 3, you knew Chelsea were a force.

Liverpool have Klopp. A man with no plan B, no real shift away from his hipster tactics and no defensive managerial capabilities.
 
Thing is, Chelsea had a coach who was one of the best at organising defenses and drilling a well disciplined unit. As soon as he switched to his favoured back 3, you knew Chelsea were a force.

Liverpool have Klopp. A man with no plan B, no real shift away from his hipster tactics and no defensive managerial capabilities.

But he won a 2 team league 5 years ago and is wacky.
 
@Dumbstar
Its a shame that Chelsea completely altered the defensive shape of the side and went on to win the league with an entire new defensive approach isn't it?
That took Conte 4 weeks to sort out, meanwhile in Klopps 3rd season...

Thank you. Didn't need or want the commentary. Just the facts after you said 5 points is insurmountable at this stage. I'm done here.
 
@Dumbstar
Its a shame that Chelsea completely altered the defensive shape of the side and went on to win the league with an entire new defensive approach isn't it?
That took Conte 4 weeks to sort out, meanwhile in Klopps 3rd season...



After the Arsenal loss Conte was able to get 13 clean sheets in the next 16 games. Doubt Klopp could manage that with what Liverpool have at the back.
 
@Dumbstar
Maybe 1 of your facts should be I didn't actually say that?
Just a thought
Maybe you should read my commentary then so..
 
5 points is a big gap after 6 games. Anymore and you're looking at 3/4 losses from 6 which would be a disaster.

You didn't say insurmountable. But you're hinting towards it. I think too many teams have already dropped enough points to make this a ridiculously unpredictable season. Until we have a clear stand out, like Chelsea last season, I'm not even sure one or two more losses will make a huge impact either way.
 
Pretty sure they're gonna raise their game against us, but not sure they'll be able to deal with United's nous on corners.
 
@Dumbstar
I simply pointed out that being 5 points behind after 6 games is a big gap. If you were any further behind you would have had a disasterous start to the season since you would have needed to drop points in 4 games out of 6.
If Leicester scored their pen then you would have been 1 point above 11th, 2 points closer to us than pointless Palace.
Thats why your "Only 5 points" doesn't make sense. After 10 games then you could say that but not 6.
 
Pretty sure they're gonna raise their game against us, but not sure they'll be able to deal with United's nous on corners.

:lol: I don't think you need any nous to trouble Liverpool on a set piece. Just put the ball in the box with some height and Lovren and Co. shall see to the rest.
 
I would rather be 5 points behind with 6 games gone, than 5 points behind with 6 games to go.
 
I don't give a shit about chance creation. We set out to park the bus and hit them whenever we could counter, but we were far too deep and gave them too much respect.

Counter attacking is one thing but playing your 2 of your front 3 as full backs and then their full backs as ultra backs was stupid. I love our manager and I think his pragmatism is great, but I'l always look on the Ethiad and Anfield games as examples where we just gave them too much respect. Parking the bus belongs to clubs such as Real or Barcelona. Not fecking Liverpool. Hopefully we set out with a simple counter attack without playing too deep this time. Going by us playing a back 5 for 25 mins against the most toothless side in the Premiership in the last game (after Palace), I doubt it.

Sorry but you need to educate yourself a little bit on the beautiful game.

Sometimes you need to grind out a result. It's what the best teams do. It's called being pragmatic. We still have limitations and understand what they are. This season we are dealing with them and turning draws from last season into wins.

Liverpool could do with understanding this as they'd not leak as many goals.
 
I would rather be 5 points behind with 6 games gone, than 5 points behind with 6 games to go.
Really? The latter would indicate you're right in the title race at crunch time, with a fair shot at winning the league. Any muppet team can be within 5 points of the lead after half a dozen games.
 
Sorry but you need to educate yourself a little bit on the beautiful game.

Sometimes you need to grind out a result. It's what the best teams do. It's called being pragmatic. We still have limitations and understand what they are. This season we are dealing with them and turning draws from last season into wins.

Liverpool could do with understanding this as they'd not leak as many goals.

A fan of a team that finished 6th telling us how to finish above them this season. Stick to telling us how to win cups if I were you (i.e. forget the league and just win cups. That sort of statement) ;)
 
A fan of a team that finished 6th telling us how to finish above them this season. Stick to telling us how to win cups if I were you (i.e. forget the league and just win cups. That sort of statement) ;)

A fan of the most successful and decorated football club in England *
 
Sorry but you need to educate yourself a little bit on the beautiful game.

Sometimes you need to grind out a result. It's what the best teams do. It's called being pragmatic. We still have limitations and understand what they are. This season we are dealing with them and turning draws from last season into wins.

Liverpool could do with understanding this as they'd not leak as many goals.
Sorry but you need to educate yourself a little bit on the beautiful game.

Sometimes you need to grind out a result. It's what the best teams do. It's called being pragmatic. We still have limitations and understand what they are. This season we are dealing with them and turning draws from last season into wins.

Liverpool could do with understanding this as they'd not leak as many goals.

Christ, don't try and be patronising.

There is counter attacking football, and then there is a park the bus approach, which we employed against Liverpool.

Being pragmatic is adjusting your team to the opposition, being willing to play on the counter and knowing which games to go ultra defensive in. Liverpool was not the game to be ultra defensive in. They aren't Barcelona or Madrid.
 
Christ, don't try and be patronising.

There is counter attacking football, and then there is a park the bus approach, which we employed against Liverpool.

Being pragmatic is adjusting your team to the opposition, being willing to play on the counter and knowing which games to go ultra defensive in. Liverpool was not the game to be ultra defensive in. They aren't Barcelona or Madrid.

As I said, if you think United simply parked the bus they you need to educate yourself. Was much more to it than that.
 
As I said, if you think United simply parked the bus they you need to educate yourself. Was much more to it than that.

First half United played very well and surprised Liverpool who were waiting for the bus. But the bus arrived in the second hald and limited Liverpool to 2 good chances. So, the claim about the bus is a half-truth.
 
I don't give a shit about chance creation. We set out to park the bus and hit them whenever we could counter, but we were far too deep and gave them too much respect.

Counter attacking is one thing but playing your 2 of your front 3 as full backs and then their full backs as ultra backs was stupid. I love our manager and I think his pragmatism is great, but I'l always look on the Ethiad and Anfield games as examples where we just gave them too much respect. Parking the bus belongs to clubs such as Real or Barcelona. Not fecking Liverpool. Hopefully we set out with a simple counter attack without playing too deep this time. Going by us playing a back 5 for 25 mins against the most toothless side in the Premiership in the last game (after Palace), I doubt it.

We were going into that game at Anfield on the back of some unfavourable results (1 win in the previous 4), including a loss against City who were flying at the time. Klopp had a synchronised team, whereas Mourinho had only been in charge of his for a short while. It was of paramount importance first and foremost for Jose to not lose that game. Not just to get a result, but to keep the media and United fans onside.

If you look at the context of where we were then, then it's very understandable to see why Jose did what he did. The City game is a different matter, and I give Jose less leeway in that fixture but still the circumstances were difficult at that time.

Going against Liverpool soon, we will be up against a lot of firepower again. It wouldn't surprise me if we adopt a similar approach. However what should be much more different this time around is that we will have a much improved counter-attacking presence.