Windy times ahead.
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
- Start date
Klopp didn‘t win trophies from the start at Dortmund, did he? The likes of Henderson are clearly a level above than they were before Klopp took over, Pool are playing more often than not good attacking football, but the competition is strong and they can‘t bring in the quality that Chelsea, City and United keep on buying. Klopp is a good team builder, a very good coach overall, but Mourinho, Guardiola and perhaps Conte are a level above him and to inflict more pain, have better squads.
Maybe he was too adamant on having only a few targets in the transfer market. But even the boss himself (Jose) once said that he waited a season for Diego Costa, because guys like that are worth it.
Pool can‘t attract a better coach than Klopp, IMO. Tuchel failed to win the Bundesliga, Favre was sacked and played one dimensional football and Neaple are kept in their place by Juve.
I believe Klopp wants to have regular CL footie and beat some of the big boys from time to time, maybe he can pull a Leicester someday, but that can‘t be the expectation, ffs, they haven‘t even won the PL.
Klopp is a cnut who likes to stirr things up and has his own way of telling facts. This won‘t go well with some opposition fans, but imo he‘s good for the league and i like to see how teams try to counter his attacking approach. Guys like Hodgson shouldn‘t get a job in the Prem., outdated and completely boring, Klopp not so.
I disagree with the line of thinking that a Curling Cup would‘ve been good for Pool. Pool want to be higher up the league table, don‘t think a cup is worth more than CL footie, a lot of Arsenal would‘ve changed position in a heartbeat.
Another season, same Liverpool. 
Looks like we won't need Pogba vs them after all. They're complete shite.
A defence that's shit being covered by a hard working midfield that is also shit and no longer hardworking. You only need to create one chance on target to be rewarded with two goals. I don't know what the fck Klopp is doing this season, I really don't. My worst fear is, like Rodgers in his final season, I don't think Klopp know what he's doing anymore either.
he is a lot worse than Rodgers.
He's not worse than Rodgers, don't be silly. Suarez was the reason Rodgers had those numbers.
What we're having is the result of us trying to play like Barcelona without having the players.
But, not only we lack players, we lack our trademark pressing since Arsenal game. Since then our midfield utter shit.
It's not about defenders (bar Lovren, can't hit the ball - go play elsewhere). Any defender (including MU ones) will lose 1-on-1 vs a forward of comparable quality most of the times. Hence, there's such a thing as cover in defense. We're supposed to have cover from our midfield, but we have none. Most of the times we concede because our defenders are trying to create 2 vs 1 situation with the guy who has the ball, and midfield does not cover the others. Other goals are pure individual errors (Lovren against Sevilla, Gomez leaving half of their team onside today).
We need to bounce back real quick.
What we're having is the result of us trying to play like Barcelona without having the players.
But, not only we lack players, we lack our trademark pressing since Arsenal game. Since then our midfield utter shit.
It's not about defenders (bar Lovren, can't hit the ball - go play elsewhere). Any defender (including MU ones) will lose 1-on-1 vs a forward of comparable quality most of the times. Hence, there's such a thing as cover in defense. We're supposed to have cover from our midfield, but we have none. Most of the times we concede because our defenders are trying to create 2 vs 1 situation with the guy who has the ball, and midfield does not cover the others. Other goals are pure individual errors (Lovren against Sevilla, Gomez leaving half of their team onside today).
We need to bounce back real quick.
Bet you would like that.
I knew the City thrashing would break them. I think the same would happen to City too if Liverpool smashed them. Both the teams are very fragile, good front runners but I neither of them can dig themselves out of a whole/bad run.
The only point of Ox was to provide pace and ball carrying ability from midfield and hope that a deeper role might actually benefit his goal scoring ala Lallana. It's clear Klopp doesn't trust him centrally yet but on the wing he is nothing short of shambolic, in our system he doesn't fit the profile for the role, particularly as we set up with wide forwards and a false 9 which means traditional strikers struggle unless we switch to a diamond.
Honestly the only thing he's better than Markovic at is being stronger and English.
Genuinely think Marko could be excellent in that number 8 role. Certainly no worse than ox on the wing.
Hoping he transitions to a more BVB esque 4-2-3-1 next season, Keita fits perfectly in to that. The right signings and it would be seamless but then I have not a single iota of faith that we'd manage that. We're playing a more Barca type game and he's done that by building on what he had rather than ripping it up. At this point it looks a gamble but it's probably why the owners wanted him, saves them money in the long run too. Honestly though I would have taken another 6th placed finish if it meant building a competent balanced team and squad. This just seems utterly unpredictable and random everywhere but on the pitch .
He's the best manager we're going to have for a long while so I hope he can fix it. I'm certain we'll start firing again. But long term even if we get back to our best we have to find some sort of balance without blunting ourselves.
Honestly the only thing he's better than Markovic at is being stronger and English.
Genuinely think Marko could be excellent in that number 8 role. Certainly no worse than ox on the wing.
Hoping he transitions to a more BVB esque 4-2-3-1 next season, Keita fits perfectly in to that. The right signings and it would be seamless but then I have not a single iota of faith that we'd manage that. We're playing a more Barca type game and he's done that by building on what he had rather than ripping it up. At this point it looks a gamble but it's probably why the owners wanted him, saves them money in the long run too. Honestly though I would have taken another 6th placed finish if it meant building a competent balanced team and squad. This just seems utterly unpredictable and random everywhere but on the pitch .
He's the best manager we're going to have for a long while so I hope he can fix it. I'm certain we'll start firing again. But long term even if we get back to our best we have to find some sort of balance without blunting ourselves.
Why do you think that? Isn't Klopp a manager who trust young players? From my limited knowledge, he has played youngsters like TAA and Woodburn too right?
No, i want Pool in the CL, they're less likely to embarrass England like Arsenal are doing for over a decade. Arsenal shouldn't be in Cl as long as Wenger is staying.
I think players must be growing tired of Klopp's acts. Also i do not think you can geggenpress everyone, everygame in the season if you have champions league football then you cant do it. Some players jhust dont like to press, coutinho who isnt happy wont be a good influence on dressing room.
If gegenpressing is the problem, i dont think they would be having this "mini collapse" 5 games into the season. This is due to the personnal issue (or lacking there of), i think VDD, coutinho saga really killed them early on. The inability to make fast tactical change to accomodate losing mane to an early red card at city further cimented the idea klopp lacks alternate plans, but i dont think that is the issue, even if he decided to make timely change they simply dont have that stopping power in any of their bench players at that time. Klopp will fail, not because of gegenpressing but because of his lack of alternate plans, both in his transfer signings and on pitch game style.
As soon as a better manager is available he will be out of the door. Shame, at times he genuinely looked like the loose dog that was suarez with his teeth.
Now, all is not lost for them. They're 5 points off in the league and just have to beat us to get back into the fight. There's still 5 matches left in CL.
They'll have to score an insane amount of goals though, to make up for that shaky defence.
They'll have to score an insane amount of goals though, to make up for that shaky defence.
However, if we keep winning and they lose to Leicester and Newcastle away - a real possibility - we can build a gap of 14 points by winning at Anfield. With us then going to Huddersfield and them going to Tottenham. Out of title run by mid-October? Yes, please.
During the Coutinho saga some Liverpool fans actually argued that they had become a more desirable club than Barcelona because we sold Neymar.
This is a criticism that can be made about almost every PL team.
Apart from Chelsea, none of the English teams are particularly tough or resilient. All of them have fragile psych and they break easily when they are on the back foot. Arsenal and Liverpool are the weakest of the bunch. Tottenham and City are not as bad as the other two, but they too are prone to total collapses. United have become mentally tougher since Jose took over, but he needs more time IMO.
Real Madrid is probably the toughest team in the world.
WhatDuring the Coutinho saga some Liverpool fans actually argued that they had become a more desirable club than Barcelona because we sold Neymar.
Not even kidding.What
It was on reddit soccer (I wish I could find the convo). They argued that they are on the up with Klopp, while Barca has stagnated and once Messi declines we will become irrelevant.
I never really understood why United fans hated Liverpool fans so much (apart from rivalry), until I tried to have a debate with them about who is the bigger club between us and them.
Now I understand your frustrations.
Don't think Liverpool deserve much criticism for that defeat, it was mostly a second string side and the domestic cups haven't been Klopp's priority at Pool anyway. Their goal is top four in the league and avoiding embarrassment in Europe. The draw against Burnley was far more damaging.
It was also against Leicester's second string though plus they've reached the finals and semi finals of this cup in the last two seasons. It's not a big priority agreed but the manner of the defeat was all too similar.
World class midfield at work
You could say that about Klopp and Mane
Good point. Also Dalglish also had Suarez and came nowhere near what Rodgers achieved with Liverpool.
World class midfield at work
This game was dead, when Coutinho left. Really exposed Henderson, Wijnaldum (and Grujic) offenisvely and defensively. Lallana is the most important player for Liverpool, cause he combines workrate and positional sense from the deep positions with actual class. Robertson, Solanke and Woodburn were the only players yesterday that actually made a case for more playing time. Gomez looked as bad in central defense as all the other options, but they were really left vulnerable by the lackadaisical play of Henderson and Wijnaldum. Keita will do wonders for that shitshow of a (defensive) midfield.
The question there is was Suarez always going to be world class, or did he get there because he had Rodgers as a manager?
Since the start of the season, Liverpool have conceded 15 goals. United have conceded 2. Individually though there isn't much better the CB's. Lovren is near about Bailly, Jones
Not sure but his goal scoring record in PL wasn't good and when Rodgers became manager it just exploded. It was good combination of right player and right manager.
To be fair to Liverpool, they still haven't played with a full strength XI where everyone's fit to play. A line-up with Coutinho, Lallana, Mane, Salah and Firmino in it can get them top 4.
The same Suarez who dragged Uruguay to a Copa America in 2011? I think i have my answer....
Btw, if i were Klopp at this point i'd start taking a hard stance with that lot. Gomez is more focused on checking out birds in the stands than doing his job? Gomez won't be seeing the pitch anymore anytime soon. Whole gets caught with their pants down from a throw in? No day off. Instead, it's 2 hours of running followed by 4-6 hours of training in not getting caught with your pants down following a throw in
This side will be horribly defensively exposed too.
They won't play all of those in the same line up, surely?
Well, they did apparently become a European powerhouse once again, during that 2 day spell after their Arsenal win when they seemed to think Lemar and Van Dijk were about to sign up. I guess that will probably be the highlight of their end of season DVD.During the Coutinho saga some Liverpool fans actually argued that they had become a more desirable club than Barcelona because we sold Neymar.
I forgot Clyne too.
Big ambitions then.
They aren't going to win the title or the Champions League any time soon. The domestic cups are their best chance of winning stuff and they're already fecked one of them up as soon as possible.
They've won one trophy in 11 years. Surely the goal should be to win something?
Read some of the comments on here after the initial matches of TAA at RB, doesn't seem that Liverpool fan think that their team is missing Clyne much.
I've read some comments on RAWK and the Liverpool subreddit and the general consensus lately is that TAA isn't ready yet.
Since the start of the season, Liverpool have conceded 15 goals. United have conceded 2. Individually though there isn't much better the CB's. Lovren is near about Bailly, Jones
Good stat. And I'm guessing we've also scored more than their celebrated attack.
Anyway, it is still early days but the signs are not good for Klopp. The same defensive mistakes game after game. Peppering the opposition with shots - mostly from long range - and thinking 'how did we lose that' when the other side actually creates clear cut chances.
This run feels similar to last January when they had two games a week. And if players such as Can and Coutinho don't actually want to be there then trying to pull off pressing-Klopp style tactics could backfire.
But again I'll say it's early days.
Yeah, their defense continues to be poor. I don't see that changing this season though so their attack is just going to have to overcome it. Maybe another year of this will finally convince Klopp there is more than one defender out there who can improve his backline.
The way I see it, both Spurs and Liverpool are in a contest to become the new Arsenal. Consistent champions league football and once that's established maybe win the odd domestic cup but the priority is always top four. It will probably do them more good in terms of finances and attracting players than winning the League Cup. It's a sad way to run a club but it's all about the money nowadays.