Liverpool - 2017/18

TheReligion said:
Was resting all summer not enough for them?
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We had more games because we had to qualify for CL and then ridiculous internationals with our South Americans and Africans jetting off to far away lands. I'll take the rest thanks.

Pep worked us out well. Went really brave with a two man up front and I have a feeling even with 11 they would have done us 2-1. Credit where it's due.
 
Sadio Mane said:
I hope and wish Ederson a quick recovery. I am so sorry he was hurt during our accidental collision on the pitch and am sorry for him that he could not complete the match because of it. I pray he heals fast and is back playing very soon because he is highest quality player.☝️
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Dumbstar said:
Weekend is not as bad as expected. Mane, Salah, Firmino, Lovren (sigh) and Coutinho rested and ready for Sevilla. And Sturridge too for next weekend. Roll on champions league.
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Liverpool fans and their undying optimism are fecking hilarious.

A different breed you lot are!
 
What I don´t get about Klopp is why he insists to make his defense intentionally worse. It´s Moreno that makes Lovren worse, not the other way around. So what does Klopp do? He keeps Moreno and plays Klavan. Robertson - Lovren - Matip - Gomez looks the strongest options they have. It´s not great, but it´s a lot better than the back four Klopp picked today.
 
I'm so glad I slept through that :lol: Blimey.
 
Klavan, Moreno and Alexander-Arnold as three of your back four away to City. It's no surprise they conceded 5 - even without the red card that defence is just not top 6 quality.
 
I just watched a comprehensive highlight video of the game today.

I have to say, the final score is somewhat harsh on Liverpool. Up until Mane's red card, they looked at least City's equal.

With that being said, the complete meltdown after going down to 10 men was very Arsenal/Spurs-like.
 
Infordin said:
I just watched a comprehensive highlight video of the game today.

I have to say, the final score is somewhat harsh on Liverpool. Up until Mane's red card, they looked at least City's equal.

With that being said, the complete meltdown after going down to 10 men was very Arsenal/Spurs-like.
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Yeah it was an even game 11 vs 11 although Liverpool did go a goal down due to comical defending even without the sending off so that may have continued. It's more the pathetic reaction to being a man down that deserves criticism. Otherwise I don't think they have many big problems. Fully expect them to be in the mix at the top end of the table throughout the season. But capitulating like that was really weird.
 
JustFootballFan said:
What I don´t get about Klopp is why he insists to make his defense intentionally worse. It´s Moreno that makes Lovren worse, not the other way around. So what does Klopp do? He keeps Moreno and plays Klavan. Robertson - Lovren - Matip - Gomez looks the strongest options they have. It´s not great, but it´s a lot better than the back four Klopp picked today.
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Genuine question, has Klopp ever built (Not inherited) a decent defence?
 
LuisNaniencia said:
Genuine question, has Klopp ever built (Not inherited) a decent defence?
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I don't think so but he's won titles without one. Tbh I don't really know how good or bad his Dortmund side was when they won back to back titles, but I don't think they were known for being solid at the back.
 
Peanut Butter said:
He doesn't actually feel positive. It's just a front they always put on. Decades of failure has made them all go a bit crazy.
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Sure some have gone a little over the edge, 27 years of pain and misery will do that, yet a few staunch dippers remain and these guys are the very definition of the term optimism.
 
The scoreline was poor but the result you can't really be overly disheartened by, three fixtures in a row (in the league) against non top 6 teams will show where Liverpool are at compared to last season, and show how Klopp will rotate and the squad will cope with 3 games a week.

The obvious problems at centre back before the window are still at the exact same level of obviousness because they can't really become any more obvious.
 
Klopper76 said:
I don't think so but he's won titles without one. Tbh I don't really know how good or bad his Dortmund side was when they won back to back titles, but I don't think they were known for being solid at the back.
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Only 22 and 25 goals conceded in his two title wins with Dortmund.
 
They miss somebody like Hummels was under Klopp, not even for his defensive skills, but his play-making from the back which means they can retain the ball for longer stretches and relief pressure. Matip was supposed to be that guy, but he´s not.
 
Klopper76 said:
I don't think so but he's won titles without one. Tbh I don't really know how good or bad his Dortmund side was when they won back to back titles, but I don't think they were known for being solid at the back.
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He had Hummels and Subotic in defence. Night and day between Liverpool's one.
 
Just watching the highlights now. City cut Liverpool like hot knife through butter. It's embarrassing how bad their defending is.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
Genuine question, has Klopp ever built (Not inherited) a decent defence?
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Yeah, his BVB side set a Bundesliga record for lowest goals conceded if I'm not mistaken. It was his first title winning season I think.

The way we play under him is a lot different to how they played. We don't have the same profile of players. When the job was offered to both Klopp and Ancelotti their counsel was also heeded. Ancelotti would only take the job on the premise he would be allowed to buy an entirely new spine, Klopp was happy to build on what he had. You can guess which sounded more appealing to FSG?
Klopp has brought in a new spine also, one significantly cheaper than anything Carlo would have gone for. It's not yet complete even. We lack depth in key areas.
To address your main point somewhat though, He had not only had taller players, but in the pivot he used he always used a dedicated defensive midfielder, Kehl/Bender. We at present don't have a Bender/Kehl or a Gundogan/Sahin. Therefore he uses a 3 to compensate. There's very little difference between the two formations apart from the profile of the players involved. When you play all of Can/Hendo/Gini and this applies more to smaller games than bigger ones, you end up with a disconnect because none of the three can link the MF and attack, also their ability to go back the other way is negated by their inability to track runners. It happens a lot and I'm not sure if it's systematic or just poor concentration.

We don't have the money to give him exactly what he wants. Next summer with Keita he'll be a hell of a lot closer. He's playing the long game if I was making a guess on what I've read about the composition of his squads. The only problem with that is, football for a lot of players is the here and now. How long are our better ones going to be willing to wait to have a real run at silverware? It's why it's critical to build squads able to compete over a 3-5 year period. Our targeted players under Klopp have been spot on, but our actual recruitment and negotiation has been nothing short of shambolic. This season has the potential to get really ugly for us and almost every person could see it coming. Just have to hope we muddle through and keep everyone fit. On a last point we don't counter press as much as his Dortmund side, that's another distinction, our method is slightly more flexible in that respect. I suspect I'll have to wait to see if he sets back up like that or not. For this season we're reliant on having the right combination of players available to do well.
 
Absolutely criminal that we have to rely on fecking Klavan in September. March, April? Cool, it's understandable as the season is eight or so months in but now? Even people who know feck all about football here on the caf could see our defence is pants but our manager couldn't? It's just annoying because we would have lost either way yesterday with that defence, we can't even blame the red. I hope we smash Sevilla though, they destroyed me in Basle.
 
Oga on top. said:
Absolutely criminal that we have to rely on fecking Klavan in September. March, April? Cool, it's understandable as the season is eight or so months in but now? Even people who know feck all about football here on the caf could see our defence is pants but our manager couldn't? It's just annoying because we would have lost either way yesterday with that defence, we can't even blame the red. I hope we smash Sevilla though, they destroyed me in Basle.
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Agree with that, it's a large part of what could make you a challenger for top 4 rather than 1st. I don't think it's just the players though, playing your cbs so high up, with the personal you had on was naive. Fernandinho was breaking their attack through with nothing but straight balls (albeit well hit ones) - there was plenty of space for runners to reach them. Against that sort of side, in away games at least, Klopp has to have the defense deeper to stop that, especially if your fbs are instructed to push up into space. Even just having a midfielder as a screen, dropping back as almost a third cb/sweeper out of possession to close that space could help.
 
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Parry Gallister said:
Agree with that, it's a large part of what could make you a challenger for top 4 rather than 1st. I don't think it's just the players though, playing your cbs so high up, with the personal you had on was naive. Fernandinho was breaking their attack through with nothing but straight balls (albeit well hit ones) - there was plenty of space for runners to reach them. Against that sort of side, in away games at least, Klopp has to have the defense deeper to stop that, especially if your fbs are instructed to push up into space. Even just having a midfielder as a screen, dropping back as almost a third cb/sweeper out of possession to close that space could help.
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Yeah good points. The reality is we will not be playing City every weekend but like you say not having a proper defence is the difference between winning something and just competing. I think the Sevilla and Burnley game willl tell us a lot about this squad, imo they are must wins to restore confidence after a thumping like that. Also this is no time to be playing coy with Coutinho, I'd start him in both games. He's not doing us a favour by coming back into the fold, he's a well paid employee.
 
Another game, another defensive nightmare. It's going to be a LONG season until January. Lovren should really be booted from the team.
 
I'll never understand how Klopp thought VVD is the only defender in the world that can improve their defense.
 
JustFootballFan said:
Robertson - Lovren - Matip - Gomez looks the strongest options they have. It´s not great, but it´s a lot better than the back four Klopp picked today.
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The state of that. You're probably right in it being their best foot forward but that's a midtable defence at best.
 
Lovren is awful. Falling over trying to clear the ball for the first goal. Unbelievable they haven't strengthened that defence in the summer. What was Klopp thinking?!
 
Lovren is good on the ball. Klopp needs a CB who's good on the ball, otherwise liverpool wouldn't be able to cope against a high pressing line. How many CBs were there that 'pool could sign who'd be improvements on Lovren with that same ability on the ball?

Most of the time Lovren isn't a problem anyways

If anything, what i don't get is why they didn't go for N'Zonzi...
 
giorno said:
Lovren is good on the ball. Klopp needs a CB who's good on the ball, otherwise liverpool wouldn't be able to cope against a high pressing line. How many CBs were there that 'pool could sign who'd be improvements on Lovren with that same ability on the ball?

Most of the time Lovren isn't a problem anyways

If anything, what i don't get is why they didn't go for N'Zonzi...
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Are you getting Lovren confused with Matip? Matip seems decent on the ball, Lovren definitely doesn't. Maybe some Liverpool fans could clarify though..
 
Klopp is not helping matters by rotating the backfour and the goalkeeper all the time. At least a regular line-up will have a chance to minimize their collective mistakes and reduce/correct individual mistakes through cohesiveness.

Moreno needs a smart and outspoken strong CB partner on his side to keep his instincts in check and cover the dumb things he´ll still do 2-3 times a game. Does that sound like Lovren? Well then Moreno cannot play at the moment and Robertson/Milner need to play. Also has the advantage Milner can take the penalties again.

TAA or Gomez are young players with significant talent, but they are rookies. They have enough to do figuring out their own part. Irregular playing time and an unstable backline are not the best way to learn. Pick one and stick with it. The same goes for the goalies.
 
Should have bought Carvalho from Sporting and a CB. Shocking negligence once again.
 
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