I said actual flops, not who your jury's still out on. Players we sold couldn't have done the job, because Klopp decides which players fit his style and which players are capable of playing in his teams. And Karius is definitely not a flop, he's younger and has higher ceiling than Minge. Caulker was a raging alcoholic when he was signed, and I can't even remember him ever playing, so he's more in a "pointless" category for me.
I do not recall hyping many of these players myself, but there's also a lot in here who were by no means poor signings, not in the context of that era, nor in their performances for the club.
Sahin came in with a massive hype, because he was considered one of the best players in his position. Then Rodgers decided he will play him in a different position, so it didn't work out. Plus, he was here on loan.
Origi was never a bad or poor signing, that's ridiculous. He'll have a successful season on loan, may get recalled in January, and he'll come back to us a more experienced young striker. This is not that kind of a loan, when you offload a player because he's shit. That's what Markovic's for.
Lovren was, in the context of that era, one of the best defenders in the PL, and cost us massive amounts of money. I don't see how thinking "oh, this will be a great signing for us" is in any way delusional, when you take a look at the context.
Moreno came in from EL champions, and actually didn't have a bad first season. Plus, haven't you heard? He's now "100% back", so obv. not a flop or a bad signing.
Coates was Copa America's best young player, and he can clearly still perform on a top level, just not in England. Again your arguments fall short.
Enrique had some solid defensive displays over the years, but was constantly injured. I don't see how fault for injury can somehow fall on the club's judgement to bring him in, he wasn't a bad defender by any means.
Maxi performed way over expectations, don't know what you're on about.
Crouchy is a legend, enough said.
You can't redefine what constitutes a "flop" to make out that obvious flops aren't or weren't flops. I also didn't say that all of those players were flops, hence why some were tagged as "jury's out" (because they're still young or have only just signed), or why I said some were simply overhyped by the fanbase. Maxi wasn't a flop, but he wasn't as good as many liked to make out he was while he was with you. It's the same for a number of others.
As for the player's you've highlighted:
- I never said Origi was a flop. I said he's been offloaded (which he has, he's been sent out on loan) when he could have done a job for you. You are somewhat overstocked up top but a couple of injuries and you're suddenly very light there, particularly between now and the end of December when you're guaranteed a degree of fixture congestion, competing in the league, CL and League Cup.
- Sahin was signed to do a job that he couldn't do. The fact that was because Rodgers played him away from his favoured position doesn't change the fact that he was poor for you. What he did before signing and what he's done since leaving is irrelevant. Forlan was relatively crap for United, but was very good elsewhere.
- Lovren is a flop. He came in with great hype after a good showing for Southampton, but even his best performances in a Liverpool shirt barely tip past "okay" and more often than not he's a complete liability.
- Moreno is another flip. Again, came in with a decent rep, but he's cost you so many points, as well as a Europa League final. Him being "back" after not being utterly shite for the first few games this season is just further evidence for your fanbase overstating the abilities of your players. Neither him or Lovren are good enough for where you want to be, and it's painfully obvious to everyone, apart from Liverpool fans it seems.
- Again, another player coming in with a good rep. Coates may be doing alright elsewhere, but he was a flop for you, which is what we're discussing. Had he not been a flop, he'd still be there. Falcao's doing alright for Monaco now, doesn't mean he wasn't a very poor signing as far as United are concerned.
- Enrique was okay. He was never as good as people made out (and I really had to think about including Johnson in that list too), and if anything, him and Maxi are two great examples of how your fans saw (and still see) these types of players. They weren't terrible, and may have even overperformed from initial expectations, but at the end of the day, they were important parts of your team during possibly your worst period in decades.
- Crouch being a legend is, well, laughable. Average striker in a distinctly average Liverpool side.
- Karius was brought in to replace Ming, and was quickly found out as not good enough. You battered Arsenal last weekend, and he still looked incredibly shaky. You say he has a higher ceiling, but I have no idea what that's based on because he's looked like a scared kitten every time he plays. He might end up not quite as shit, but he looks a poor bit of business at the moment.
- Caulker was signed for a purpose, ended up being thrown on up front so you could play hoof-ball about 30 seconds after Klopp had just gone on a massive rant about teams playing hoof-ball, and was all-in-all, a terrible signing. Choosing to bring in an alcoholic on loan and not playing him, as pointless as it was, still represents a flop of a signing. At least Manninger was only ever brought in as emergency back up and apparently for a bit of coaching.
Of those players you've listed:
- Allen is a similar type of midfielder to what we have. We need a holding midfielder.
- If Ibe is so useful why can't he get a game for Bournemouth? We've now got Chamberlain, Coutinho, Mane and Salah who can play in his position and do a better job.
- Skrtel was worse than any of our current CB's in his last season and clearly needed to be moved on.
- Origi does have a recall option for January but it'd take a lot of injuries for us to be in a position where we need him.
- Teixeira is a weird one, I don't think there's any evidence to suggest he'd do a job as a squad player.
- Maybe we could have kept Lucas. He was pretty awful as a CB last season but could've done a job here and there in midfield.
- Toure...maybe, is he better than Lovren or Klavan?
- Benteke was on a lot of money and wanted to play regularly. He wasn't getting that in Klopp's team so I don't think it was ever possible for us to keep him as a squad player. He might have helped during our bad run last season.
- Balotelli...seriously?
There's not many players on that list that I'd class as any better than the squad options we currently have. There's an argument for Lucas and Benteke maybe.
I'm not saying keep all of them, but a few would have been useful.
- Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Allen itching for a move away. He'd have been a very good squad player, and would allow you to rotate your midfield a bit more frequently. I'm also not sure I buy the idea that your midfield is overstocked with players of his ilk. I think there's room for a holding midfielder and Allen in your squad.
- Ibe was the new Sterling after his first few appearances (that might have been more to do with him being young and black, mind). I said squad players for some of them. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit.
- Skrtel and Toure didn't have to better than Lovren or Klavan, but considering you got rid of them both, only to bring Klavan in, who seems to be about as lower/mid-table a CB you're going to see, it seems odd business, especially when you're also sending Sakho packing, for some reason.
- Teixeira falls into the same category as Ibe. Perhaps I'm giving him too much credit, but a young player on the fringes is the sort of 4th or 5th choice you want, surely?
- I don't know why you got rid of Lucas when you're crying out for a holding midfielder. If you're not bringing anyone in to play there, why get rid of the one player you've got that can do a convincing job there?
- Benteke and Balotelli were included more as different options. Klopp's biggest flaw for many is his lack of Plan B, and both would have been ideal for a Plan B (Benteke moreso because of the lack of baggage). Benteke is a good striker, and whilst his wages may have been a bit steep, I think he could have helped you out in a fair few games last season when you needed something other than a quick midget up top.
& Markovic 
