Liverpool - 2017/18

Dyslexic Untied said:
Bit torn about Liverpool's window. Salah has kicked off, Keita (next year) seems clever and Ox I think will fit their set-up brilliantly. And they keep their best player. So all that I don't like. On the other hand you have obvious holes at the back that are left unfixed. All in all I am unsure whether to be worried or pleased.
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Agreed wholeheartedly. Prepared for another entertaining but frustrating season.

duffer said:
Who does Ox replace in the Liverpool team?
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At the moment? Hendo or Gini.
 
RedCurry said:
I don't get it with Liverpool. They went after VVD so they clearly understood where their problem area was. Then they back off and entirely didn't buy anyone else. Was there absolutely no other CB out there they could possibly get?
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Kloppitis
 
RedCurry said:
That's a nice sentiment but where does it leave the Liverpool squad? Klopp's job is to do the best for Liverpool and not VVD.

I'd say you guys could really use an upgrade this window. A few dropped points could mean everything at the end of the season. Surely the best thing to do would be to bring in a CB who would replace Lovren immediately and then if VVD is available in winter, then go for him as well and let Lovren find another club.
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I agree with you. However that doesn't seem to be the way Klopp works. He's been remarkably loyal to his players (except for Sakho for a total lack of discipline).
 
For the life of me I can not understand why we spent 40m on Chamberlain when even my dead grandmother knows that the defence is our obvious achilles heel. I'm fairly confident that he'll fit right in with Klopp, but a defender was much more needed.

Had we just kept Coutinho, bought Robertson, Salah, a strong CB and Keita for next summer I would've called this window a clear succes. Now it's a bit meh.. I'm hoping Klopp proves me wrong, but I'm foreseeing a lot of the same troubles we had last season.
 
Rafateria said:
I agree with you. However that doesn't seem to be the way Klopp works. He's been remarkably loyal to his players (except for Sakho for a total lack of discipline).
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What exactly was it Sakho did? I can't remember. He must've seriously fecked up.
 
duffer said:
Henderson? Really? Wow. Will be great for Ox if he can get a good run of starts in central mid.
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Nah. Don't see that at all. I imagine Klopp has sold AOC on games and participation, rather than being used almost exclusively as a WB as he would have been at Chelsea or staying put at Arsenal. I primarily see him as part of our three wingers, so there shouldn't be any reason not to rest them regularly. Can also see him in MF, similar to the wing players, vying for time with Can (long term replacement for next Summer perhaps), Gini and rather less so Henderson. He should play a lot of games this season.
 
duffer said:
Who does Ox replace in the Liverpool team?
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The only place he fits is one of the midfield positions currently occupied by Can and Wijnaldum. Right now he shouldn't start ahead of either. Wijnaldum when he's playing well is very good, and Can has started the season in very good form.

He can't play Henderson's role.
 
Rob said:
What exactly was it Sakho did? I can't remember. He must've seriously fecked up.
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Missing training sessions, flights, team talks and team meals and so on. I really like him as a player (and God knows the squad could do with him now) and maybe outside of football he seems like a good guy, but for his lack of professionalism there doesn't seem like there's an easy cure.
 
Rob said:
For the life of me I can not understand why we spent 40m on Chamberlain when even my dead grandmother knows that the defence is our obvious achilles heel. I'm fairly confident that he'll fit right in with Klopp, but a defender was much more needed.

Had we just kept Coutinho, bought Robertson, Salah, a strong CB and Keita for next summer I would've called this window a clear succes. Now it's a bit meh.. I'm hoping Klopp proves me wrong, but I'm foreseeing a lot of the same troubles we had last season.
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I completely agree. I like the players we've brought in and adding Clyne, Coutinho, Lallana and Chamberlain to our current squad makes it look stronger than it did last season, but we are crying out for a good CB to play alongside Matip. If he gets injured for a couple of months we're in trouble.

It's a massive gamble.
 
Rafateria said:
Missing training sessions, flights, team talks and team meals and so on. I really like him as a player (and God knows the squad could do with him now) and maybe outside of football he seems like a good guy, but for his lack of professionalism there doesn't seem like there's an easy cure.
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Thanks. That's dumb, obviously. But God knows we could use him now.
 
Klopper76 said:
I completely agree. I like the players we've brought in and adding Clyne, Coutinho, Lallana and Chamberlain to our current squad makes it look stronger than it did last season, but we are crying out for a good CB to play alongside Matip. If he gets injured for a couple of months we're in trouble.

It's a massive gamble.
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I just hope if that happens that Gomez gets the nod over Klavan. He's clearly got a much higher ceiling if given time and opportunity.
 
duffer said:
I've had 4 different answers to my question. Who do I trust!?
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We're all lying actually. Klopp saw how dodgy Karius looked on Sunday (despite facing zero shots on his goal) and decided that any outfield player would be better as a keeper than the current options.

Safe hands Chambo to the rescue.
 
Klopper76 said:
I completely agree. I like the players we've brought in and adding Clyne, Coutinho, Lallana and Chamberlain to our current squad makes it look stronger than it did last season, but we are crying out for a good CB to play alongside Matip. If he gets injured for a couple of months we're in trouble.

It's a massive gamble.
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You are crying out for a fecking DM. Even backlines as strong as ours and Spurs' are protected by a dedicated DM, heck even RM and Juve play with a DM.

N'Zonzi has a release clause of 40m euros, no reason to not sign him.
 
Their back 5 is still shit. Not worried at all. Sorry Liverpool fans but it's criminal negligence by FSG.
 
Rafateria said:
I just hope if that happens that Gomez gets the nod over Klavan. He's clearly got a much higher ceiling if given time and opportunity.
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I thought he looked good against Arsenal at RB but we've got Alexander-Arnold and Clyne as backup already.
 
VorZakone said:
Their back 5 is still shit. Not worried at all. Sorry Liverpool fans but it's criminal negligence by FSG.
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Stop blaming FSG, they've clearly made the money available as evident by their initial bids for VVD and Keita for an almost combined £140m.

It is Klopp who has failed to identify alternative targets for CB and DM. Scousers will blame FSG all day long, but have a think about it and it really can't be FSG's fault.
 
Klopper76 said:
I completely agree. I like the players we've brought in and adding Clyne, Coutinho, Lallana and Chamberlain to our current squad makes it look stronger than it did last season, but we are crying out for a good CB to play alongside Matip. If he gets injured for a couple of months we're in trouble.

It's a massive gamble.
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Our midfield and attack is definitely solid and will gain us a lot of points, but we're one injury away from having to field a Moreno-Lovren-Klavan-Clyne defence. Yikes.

But like I said, hopefully Klopp puts my reservations to shame.
 
SwansonsTache said:
You are crying out for a fecking DM. Even backlines as strong as ours and Spurs' are protected by a dedicated DM, heck even RM and Juve play with a DM.

N'Zonzi has a release clause of 40m euros, no reason to not sign him.
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Yeah I thought that was an important position to improve on but I still felt that CB was the priority. Lovren has already made a few errors this season and Klavan isn't good enough. Even Matip wasn't great against Watford.

I'm not sure we really play with a DM in Klopp's set up. Henderson kind of does it but he got forward a lot against Arsenal, a lot more than you'd expect from a DM. I think he likes his midfielders to be more attack minded. You can tell Klopp neglects the defensive side of the game when you see how high up the full backs are a lot of the time. When we had that bad run in January last season, a large number of opposition attacks came via counter attack on either wing because the full backs were high up the pitch.

We'll see how the organisational side has developed in Klopp's set up this season, if at all.
 
Klopper76 said:
Yeah I thought that was an important position to improve on but I still felt that CB was the priority. Lovren has already made a few errors this season and Klavan isn't good enough. Even Matip wasn't great against Watford.

I'm not sure we really play with a DM in Klopp's set up. Henderson kind of does it but he got forward a lot against Arsenal, a lot more than you'd expect from a DM. I think he likes his midfielders to be more attack minded. You can tell Klopp neglects the defensive side of the game when you see how high up the full backs are a lot of the time. When we had that bad run in January last season, a large number of opposition attacks came via counter attack on either wing because the full backs were high up the pitch.

We'll see how the organisational side has developed in Klopp's set up this season, if at all.
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Playing without a dedicated DM in a three man midfield can easily work if you combine workrate from your midfield three and solidity from your backline. You have the workrate in the midfield three but not the solidity in the backline.

How Klopp has neglected something so crucial to the way he wants to play I'll never know, but I am very thankfull.
 
Rob said:
Our midfield and attack is definitely solid and will gain us a lot of points, but we're one injury away from having to field a Moreno-Lovren-Klavan-Clyne defence. Yikes.

But like I said, hopefully Klopp puts my reservations to shame.
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Your reservations are perfectly justified to be fair. Klopp has shown gross negligence in ignoring his teams defensive issues, it's actually quite baffling truth be told.

Can't even see where Ox fits in at Liverpool, who's he going to displace? Surely you didn't just shell out £40m on a backup player.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Stop blaming FSG, they've clearly made the money available as evident by their initial bids for VVD and Keita for an almost combined £140m.

It is Klopp who has failed to identify alternative targets for CB and DM. Scousers will blame FSG all day long, but have a think about it and it really can't be FSG's fault.
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I agree. FSG are getting slagged off left right and centre all over the internet at the moment but they bought 4 players, told Barca to feck off and gave Coutinho a D hat and told him to sit in the corner until teacher calls him back. Had Lemar (we bid according to Pearce, serious ITK working for the Echo) and VVD come off everyone would be ecstatic by now (or despondent if they support another team). To say nothing of Keita .. a real coup.
 
Rafateria said:
I agree with you. However that doesn't seem to be the way Klopp works. He's been remarkably loyal to his players (except for Sakho for a total lack of discipline).
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I guess. But when you buy a player for first team, some player automatically becomes second choice. So I don't see how Klopp is loyal to his players anymore than usual. He didn't spend any time to ship Benteke out, for example.

Buying a CB right now and also coming good on his promise to VVD in January don't need to be mutually exclusive. It could just mean that you would then have three good CBs fighting for four different trophies.
 
You have to see it to believe it! Our 2nd and Third Choice Cb are Lovren and Klavan. Our 4th Choice has less than 10 appearances at this level as fullback!

We've had the money all summer long but have not made a single bid for a Centre Back. I feel like again as I felt last season that Klopp is making it more difficult for himself than it should be. If we finish 5th or below it's 100% on him.

What gets me the most is that we are in a good position to make the next step. A good transfer window is the difference between a top four challenge and a title tilt. Top four challenge isn't all that rewarding.

I really empathise with Arsenal fans where as a club you have the resources to do so much better, but incompetence at board level and managerial stubbornness is holding you back.
A good season hinges on our defense and midfield overperfoming. But as fans, what can we do but live in hope?
 
I'll be delighted if Liverpool are going to play AOC in midfield. Despite him crying about it - his best role does appear to be out wide.
 
Minimalist said:
I'll be delighted if Liverpool are going to play AOC in midfield. Despite him crying about it - his best role does appear to be out wide.
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Be careful what you wish for.
Things seem to work out for Klopp even in his craziest moments, I'm actually fairly confident AOC is going to be a world beater compared to his Arsenal years.

Food for thought, our transfer windows never satisfy the fans, but how many of the players Klopp signed were absolute flops, in comparison to the last three or four managers?
Meanwhile we still can't get rid of Markovic and Bogdan.
 
Not worried about their signings or window. Klopp's mental and will likely do something stupid at some point this season which will (as usual) end their title chances around the middle of the season
 
Lizard said:
Be careful what you wish for.
Things seem to work out for Klopp even in his craziest moments, I'm actually fairly confident AOC is going to be a world beater compared to his Arsenal years.

Food for thought, our transfer windows never satisfy the fans, but how many of the players Klopp signed were absolute flops, in comparison to the last three or four managers?
Meanwhile we still can't get rid of Markovic and Bogdan.
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Grujic - Jury out
Caulker - Flop
Matip - Good
Karius - Flop
Mane - Great
Klavan - Poor
Manninger - Pointless
Wijnaldum - Okay
Salah - Good
Solanke - Jury out
Robertson - Jury out
Oxlade-Chamberlain - Jury out (seems an odd signing to me)

Then there's the players he's let go that arguably could have done a job, at least as squad players: Toure, Teixeira, Skrtel, Ibe, Allen, Benteke, Balotelli, Sakho, Lucas, Origi

Mane has definitely improved you. Salah is a good signing but I'm not sure quite how necessary he was, although if Coutinho is playing up then he's some needed quality in his place. Matip is decent enough but doesn't seem to really have strengthened your defence a great deal. Wijnaldum is okay, but I don't really get the height.

You've still got quite a poor hit rate, as I see it, and I remember under Rodgers, Dalglish and Benitez where a lot of signings that turned out to be poor were being praised or heralded as better than they were. Under Rodgers, Borini, Sahin, Alberto, Ilori, Lambert, Origi, Lovren, Moreno and Markovic were all heralded by many Liverpool fans as good business pretty much until Rodgers was fired. Under Dalglish it was Coates, Enrique, Downing and Adam. Under Benitez, Aquilani, Maxi Rodriguez, Degen, Dossena, Keane, Riera, Babel, Crouch and Carson.

It's not a phenomenon exclusive to Liverpool fans, and many United fans, myself included have been very guilty of similar, but it that doesn't change the fact that your hit rate under Klopp is still quite low, and that your fans, as a whole, have a history of massively overstating the potential of young signings and the abilities of those coming into the first team.
 
Lizard said:
Be careful what you wish for.
Things seem to work out for Klopp even in his craziest moments, I'm actually fairly confident AOC is going to be a world beater compared to his Arsenal years.

Food for thought, our transfer windows never satisfy the fans, but how many of the players Klopp signed were absolute flops, in comparison to the last three or four managers?
Meanwhile we still can't get rid of Markovic and Bogdan.
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Do they?
 
duffer said:
Who does Ox replace in the Liverpool team?
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Can't see him replacing anyone, he'll be a rotation player for anyone of Mane/Salah/Hendo/Gini/TAA/Clyne. Whoever needs a rest or nursing a knock at that time, I think his versatility got him the move more than anything. He's a hard worker too, albeit not against us last Sunday admittedly.
 
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