Liverpool - 2017/18

[Random Task]

I think football doesn't work the way you think, favorites don't always win the trophies, if that was the case then premier league would have been dominated by teams like derby, Nottingham Forest, Everton, Aston Villa etc. The whole point of competition is to give your best and win it and that is called the fighting spirit and that's why people watch the game.

I also have one question for you, assuming both Liverpool and Man utd loses their finals, wouldn't it make your season worse than ours because you will lose to the "One of the weakest Chelsea side in recent memory" while we will lose to the "Serial CL winner" Real Madrid?

Obviously I'm aware of that small fact. Thanks for pointing it out all the same.

As for your question, no, it wouldn't make it better or worse. Cup finals by there very nature are unpredictable at best. Yes, Real Madrid are a vastly superior team to that of Liverpool, but that doesn't mean the latter won't draw a surprise. To a lesser extent Chelsea are weaker than United, again, that doesn't mean they aren't more than capable of beating us. They are.

As said in a previous post, making vast improvements on our league position was imminently more pressing a priority than enjoying a cup run. Thus winning or losing that final will make little to no difference in terms of whether our season would be considered acceptable. At least in the eyes of our owners and all those associated with the club. The fans may feel differently.

 

[Random Task]

Who in earth will change a CL final and TOP 4 for a second place in PL & final FA Cup?

Presumably you're aiming that at me. See my post above for clarity on the situation.

 

[adexkola]

Does it make a differene if you lose it? No one remembers the losers.

1x FA Cup is greater than 0x CL what ever way you spin it.

A lot of people do.

 

[Raru9]

Does it make a differene if you lose it? No one remembers the losers.

1x FA Cup is greater than 0x CL what ever way you spin it.

I believe that if in the beginning of the season someone says 'what do you prefer? Top 4 and CL final or Second place and FA Cup final?", the answer is clearly.

At least to me. To the end, finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th is the same practically. The normal thing to happen is that Madrid win it, but reach a new final of european football after 10+ years, is something more unique and special that maybe win a Fa Cup.

 

[Stacks]

You haven't defeated a true European heavyweight along your path to the final, though. Beating Real would change that fact, but you have to beat them first. How could you possibly say progress has been made after finishing 4th in the league (comfortably below United in second I might add) and yet again failing to secure a long overdue trophy as well. Reaching a CL final is all well and good, but it amounts to the grand total of nothing should you fail to win in said final.

completely irrelevent. You get to the final on merit. They beat the team who beat Barcelona. They also beat the most dominant side in England, a team who have smashed their own domestic league and most likely have got to the final in their stead. This whole football conservatism, banging on about the "established European elite" is a load of b******s.

I agree with you 2nd point however getting to a champions league final is huge nonetheless. When was the last time we did it? 7 seasons ago and we have played weaker sides than what Liverpool have faced. Even under Ferguson we got trashed in a weak group stage. I wouldn't mock their getting to the final because I would prefer to be there than another FA Cup which we won only 2 years ago. Also by doubting them the Ba*****s will probably go on and win it

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

A lot of people do.

Arsenal lost the CL final to Barca in 06. In the same year, LFC won the FA Cup against West Ham.

Similarly, LFC lost the CL final in 2007. Chelsea won the league cup and FA Cup double.

Which of these teams are easier remembered? Most people would have to google FA cup winners for each year (I had to, to find out Chelsea won it in 07).

The FA cup absolutely pales in comparison to the CL - no one gives a feck about it really. It's a nice day out, but an afterthought in comparison to the league and CL.

 

[adexkola]

Arsenal lost the CL final to Barca in 06. In the same year, LFC won the FA Cup against West Ham.

Similarly, LFC lost the CL final in 2007. Chelsea won the league and FA Cup double.

Which of these teams are easier remembered? Most people would have to google FA cup winners for each year (I had to, to find out Chelsea won it in 07).

The FA cup absolutely pales in comparison to the CL - no one gives a feck about it really. It's a nice day out, but an afterthought in comparison to the league and CL.

You literally just mentioned the losers in said seasons. Obviously there is enough space in the minds of the common populace to remember the small population of winners and all the others that didn't clear the last hurdle. cf Brazil team of the 80s that didn't win a WC. This "talledega nights" mentality that erases memories not attached to the winner can get to feck.

And I could have sworn United won the league in 2007. Chelsea won the FA cup though. Very memorable. Drogba's goal in extra time. Like, who goes around not knowing who the winners of a league/cu0 defeated?

 

[5red]

Does it make a differene if you lose it? No one remembers the losers.

1x FA Cup is greater than 0x CL what ever way you spin it.

A lot of the utd fans on here seem to have no problem in remembering finals that Klopp has lost.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

You literally just mentioned the losers in said seasons. Obviously there is enough space in the minds of the common populace to remember the small population of winners and all the others that didn't clear the last hurdle. cf Brazil team of the 80s that didn't win a WC. This "talledega nights" mentality that erases memories not attached to the winner can get to feck.

And I could have sworn United won the league in 2007. Chelsea won the FA cup though. Very memorable. Drogba's goal in extra time. Like, who goes around not knowing who the winners of a league/cu0 defeated?

League cup and FA cup double*.

Yeah, I'd even say that Man Utd's 2011 side is more readily remembered outside of their fanbase as being the team that lost to Barca in the CL final than being the team that won the PL.

 

[Stacks]

League cup and FA cup double*.

Yeah, I'd even say that Man Utd's 2011 side is more readily remembered outside of their fanbase as being the team that lost to Barca in the CL final than being the team that won the PL.

The fans remember it too, We had won the league a lot during that period and the Barca defeat was bitter

 

[Claude Cat]

Does it make a differene if you lose it? No one remembers the losers.

1x FA Cup is greater than 0x CL what ever way you spin it.

United haven't won yet either.

 

[Liver_bird]

It's our first CL final in a decade nobody is going to trade that for an FA Cup. Maybe if we become seasoned regulars then we can talk. You guys keep mentioning how this season is no different to any in the last 30 but barring one these last 2 have been vastly different to any in the last 10. Which includes the most barren period in our history in the post shankly era.

 

[Buchan]

It's our first CL final in a decade nobody is going to trade that for an FA Cup. Maybe if we become seasoned regulars then we can talk. You guys keep mentioning how this season is no different to any in the last 30 but barring one these last 2 have been vastly different to any in the last 10. Which includes the most barren period in our history in the post shankly era.

Lolwut?!

Let me get this straight: you wouldn't swap an FA Cup win for a losing appearance in a Champions League Final?!

 

[ashfritz]

Lolwut?!

Let me get this straight: you wouldn't swap an FA Cup win for a losing appearance in a Champions League Final?!

The debate is more centred around swapping a chance to be in either final with the outcome unknown. If on the 27th of May you ask me FA Cup winner or CL runner up, I would take winning the trophy, but only because we have been starved of those in general. That said, an FA cup win fades away after roughly 30 minutes, whereas if you reach a CL final and lose, you're still considered a European big boy for a quite a while (think Dortmund, Atletico Madrid in the seasons following their finals). For me that has greater prestige than the FA cup. Perhaps its because I'm not UK based, maybe I place too little value on it?

Theres also the part where Utd I think is at a stage where they need to make a major impact in the CL, something to remind the rest of the superclubs that they are still there. Bayern, Barca, Real and pulling away fast as it is, not to mention the new money oil cubs.

 

[JDoe]

Lolwut?!

Let me get this straight: you wouldn't swap an FA Cup win for a losing appearance in a Champions League Final?!

I wouldn't even trade a close semi final loss against some big team for an FA cup win but that's just me. There are pretty much only two relevant competitions which are the league and the CL with the CL being much, much more prestigious. The rest are just consolation prizes but each to their own I guess.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

I think Liverpool are in with a decent chance, seems everyone has written them off. RM looked really uncomfortable with that high stifling press from Spurs in the group stages. And Liverpool play in a similar fashion, they just need to keep it together in the first 20 with no nervy errors letting in easy goals.

 

[Peyroteo]

I wouldn't even trade a close semi final loss against some big team for an FA cup win but that's just me. There are pretty much only two relevant competitions which are the league and the CL with the CL being much, much more prestigious. The rest are just consolation prizes but each to their own I guess.

The FA Cup isn't just a consolation prize, it's a more prestigious competition than most cups in other countries.

 

[Goochy]

Lolwut?!

Let me get this straight: you wouldn't swap an FA Cup win for a losing appearance in a Champions League Final?!

Hand on my heart, I genuinely wouldn't. The competitions are heading in opposite directions. The Champions League is becoming stronger than ever and the FA Cup is only about 10 years behind the other one (I don't even know what that is called....Cabara?).

 

[McGrathsipan]

The FA Cup isn't just a consolation prize, it's a more prestigious competition than most cups in other countries.

It's a Mickey mouse cup these days

 

[montpelier]

Just conveniently ignoring us reaching the UCL final? And considering we lost our best player in January we've done really well. We've had 3 top four finishes in 9 years, expectations for us are lower than they are for United. When you play the style Mourinho plays and the money he has spent you will be criticised United fans themselves criticise the style of play.

they're not really though

youse vaguely sensible lot on here (and even @Dumbstar sometimes) being as sensible as you are doesn't reflect how mad / entitled a large? % of your support is, RAWK for example maybe, . European Royalty isn't it? - . Rightfully back again & all that.

And yes, it's the same here, .

Pressure is about to arrive on Klopp (minus his brain too, ) to deliver total 80s-esque domination, innit. Or a challenge for a Title at least. You could even say that's just how it works these days.

(sorry D)

 

[montpelier]

Emre Can though eh? He really does rate himself isn't it?

The fecking donkey.

 

[Dumbstar]

they're not really though

youse vaguely sensible lot on here (and even @Dumbstar sometimes) being as sensible as you are doesn't reflect how mad / entitled a large? % of your support is, RAWK for example maybe, . European Royalty isn't it? - . Rightfully back again & all that.

And yes, it's the same here, .

Pressure is about to arrive on Klopp (minus his brain too, ) to deliver total 80s-esque domination, innit. Or a challenge for a Title at least. You could even say that's just how it works these days.

(sorry D)

Love you too monts. We don't feel entitled because of our history. We feel entitled because of the way we, and mainly Salah, have played this season. In Europe anyway.

There is no illusion that Klopp will put us back where we were in the 80s. Too many strong(er) teams around nowadays for that to happen.

 

[montpelier]

Love you too monts. We don't feel entitled because of our history. We feel entitled because of the way we, and mainly Salah, have played this season. In Europe anyway.

There is no illusion that Klopp will put us back where we were in the 80s. Too many strong(er) teams around nowadays for that to happen.

Yeah, OK. I can live with that. Entitled to feel team has ''done good'' this year & looking for some more (better) still, next year. Seems very reasonable to me. Even same, concrete top 4 & 'a run' in Europe would (should) suit most of us, really. <--- some would argue it doesn't I suspect

 

[Dumbstar]

Yeah, OK. I can live with that. Entitled to feel team has ''done good'' this year & looking for some more (better) still, next year. Seems very reasonable to me. Even same, concrete top 4 & 'a run' in Europe would (should) suit most of us, really. <--- some would argue it doesn't I suspect

I've already commented elsewhere that there is no reason this isn't a Spurs v Liverpool final. Or Utd v City. Still can't believe Utd and Spurs effectively 'threw away' a free gift each.

 

[Klopper76]

Emre Can though eh? He really does rate himself isn't it?

The fecking donkey.

He’s not as good as he thinks he is but if I had to pick between Henderson and him, I’d pick Can all day long. I’d rather we kept him but he seems to have his heart set on that Juventus move now.

 

[5red]

Lolwut?!

Let me get this straight: you wouldn't swap an FA Cup win for a losing appearance in a Champions League Final?!

I think a more interesting question would be, would you swap an FA cup win for the chance to appear in the final of the UCL?

 

[Random Task]

I think a more interesting question would be, would you swap an FA cup win for the chance to appear in the final of the UCL?

When you say appear in the CL final, do you mean without the option of actually winning it? If that is the case then no. I would take an FA cup trophy over simply making a CL final appearance without a moments hesitation.

 

[5red]

When you say appear in the CL final, do you mean without the option of actually winning it? If that is the case then no. I would take an FA cup trophy over simply making a CL final appearance without a moments hesitation.

No I mean swap a definite FA cup win with an appearance in the UCL final, the outcome of which is in the balance.

 

[Random Task]

No I mean swap a definite FA cup win with an appearance in the UCL final, the outcome of which is in the balance.

Take the league standings out of the equation - which was a large part of the initial argument - and of course I'd take a CL final over an FA cup final. Not really up for debate is it.

 

[christinaa]

I think a more interesting question would be, would you swap an FA cup win for the chance to appear in the final of the UCL?

Of course not !!

If Liverpool don't win the CL they can consider this season as a disaster!

It's that close for them and everything hinges on if they win it !

 

[Dumbstar]

Of course not !!

If Liverpool don't win the CL they can consider this season as a disaster!

It's that close for them and everything hinges on if they win it !

That's what you'd like to think. There is not a single Liverpool fan that is saying Klopp Out, or Klopp's future is in the balance. I dare you to find a comment like that anywhere.

You'll argue we're just clueless scousers, or this is our level now, etc. But ultimately we're loving where Klopp is taking us (3 final appearances, consistent CL football, wonderful football to watch every single fecking week). In contrast look at the Jose thread for split evaluations. That guy might win three cups but there are still doubters.

I know this summer we will be buzzing (Keita, Fekir, etc coming. More wonderful weekly football to come next season) regardless of the CL outcome. We still want a trophy but we still believe we have the right guy and the right way of playing for it. And that is the opinion of 99.99% of Liverpool fans. Cue the call for us all being deluded.

 

[Klopper76]

Of course not !!

If Liverpool don't win the CL they can consider this season as a disaster!

It's that close for them and everything hinges on if they win it !

How is this season a disaster for Liverpool? That couldn’t be further from the truth.

 

[Brwned]

That's what you'd like to think. There is not a single Liverpool fan that is saying Klopp Out, or Klopp's future is in the balance. I dare you to find a comment like that anywhere.

You'll argue we're just clueless scousers, or this is our level now, etc. But ultimately we're loving where Klopp is taking us (3 final appearances, consistent CL football, wonderful football to watch every single fecking week). In contrast look at the Jose thread for split evaluations. That guy might win three cups but there are still doubters.

I know this summer we will be buzzing (Keita, Fekir, etc coming. More wonderful weekly football to come next season) regardless of the CL outcome. We still want a trophy but we still believe we have the right guy and the right way of playing for it. And that is the opinion of 99.99% of Liverpool fans. Cue the call for us all being deluded.

Opinions swing pretty wildly based on small things like transfers so I don't think you can really take the pulse of a fanbase in any real way. An embarrassment in the final followed by a disappointing transfer window and you might get people coming out with things like this...

Yep agree with most of that. Do I want Klopp out? Not really, I really like him. But it's not what I want, is what the club needs. The relevant question is who can we get that's better? The answer is it doesn't matter as we can't continue with what we're seeing.

Maybe our next option is to go full DoF now and get a manager that is open to it, and is half decent. Likely to be young and unheard of. Frankly I've had enough of autonomous leaders with single massive flaws, often involving transfer windows when every man and his dog can see the obvious.

If you read actual comments on here from Pool fans you'll know that's not true. It's not that we're not turning on Klopp. It's just that barring Ancellotti, who may want to consider it, we're not getting a better manager.

 

[Tommy]

A poor transfer window would be more of a board issue than a manager issue, in my opinion.

But yeah, you know me, I'm a pretty... Casual & laid back fan. I watch football because it's fun & entertaining, and I support Liverpool because I watched them beat Newcastle 4-3 in the mid 90s No joke, that's the reason.

As long as we keep playing football that's fun & entertaining, I'll keep supporting Klopp. Honestly, I'm not overly bothered if we don't win anything so long as it stays fun to watch. If we were to get in a more pragmatic manager after Klopp that perhaps wins more, but didn't entertain in the process, I'd just go watch another team.

 

[Halds]

Of course not !!

If Liverpool don't win the CL they can consider this season as a disaster!

It's that close for them and everything hinges on if they win it !

No. If we lose the final, the season is definitely not a disaster.

It's a great season if we win it. If we lose it, we have still had a good season imo.

 

[zing]

What's the logic behind a losing cl final is useless, but 2nd place is more valuable than 4th place?

 

[VP89]

No. If we lose the final, the season is definitely not a disaster.

It's a great season if we win it. If we lose it, we have still had a good season imo.

It's a tricky one - if you don't win the league.

On one side there is great pride in getting to the final.

On the other you only really trounced City to get there as a major test, and wont win any silverware if you failed on the final hurdle against Madrid.

For a manager who literally promised a title in 4 years, I wouldn't count this season as much of a success if you came up short.

 

[montpelier]

OK, .

1 - Is the LFC season a disaster if they lose to Real? No, definitely not.

2 - Are they all delusional? Not all of them, no.

Bound to be some level of disappointment if they do lose the Final though, if only because they might well not get back again for 10, 15 or 25 years isn't it? Unless you're VERY confident that Klopp is the Messiah or the team is gonna be THE BEST moving forward & nothing can ruin this, Salah leaving, Jurgen & whoever he's with () walking under a bus or something.

Was 2014 an officially great season for them? We'd say a big no & they might be split on it I suppose. This feels a bit different somehow, albeit without the hindsight perspective of knowing what does happen next. Klopp is a better bet than Brendan, Brendan was always smelling of being a one season wonder for them I reckon. Jurgen is such a megalomaniac gobshite bellend that I think he actually believes himself as being the 2nd coming of Bill Shankly - JK's bond with the significant element of delusional support is therefore closer than Brendan could ever be attaining. I don't know how this is a help, but it seems to be.

And I will say this as quietly possible, but I do tend to think they've been the 2nd best team this season anyway. Utd's 'achievements' flatter us a bit I think. And they probably wouldn't exist at all with a different GK in the nets. The stats say he's a class apart from the rest is DDG.

(I'd agree that it's easy to quote stats when they are pointing to where you want, btw) But that's what I incoherently 'reckon' anyway.

 

[Cal?]

That's what you'd like to think. There is not a single Liverpool fan that is saying Klopp Out, or Klopp's future is in the balance. I dare you to find a comment like that anywhere.

You'll argue we're just clueless scousers, or this is our level now, etc. But ultimately we're loving where Klopp is taking us (3 final appearances, consistent CL football, wonderful football to watch every single fecking week). In contrast look at the Jose thread for split evaluations. That guy might win three cups but there are still doubters.

I know this summer we will be buzzing (Keita, Fekir, etc coming. More wonderful weekly football to come next season) regardless of the CL outcome. We still want a trophy but we still believe we have the right guy and the right way of playing for it. And that is the opinion of 99.99% of Liverpool fans. Cue the call for us all being deluded.

That's all very well, let's pretend for a moment Chelsea didn't capitulate and Liverpool finished 5th. Everything else about the wonderful football, etc still holds. But will it be a disaster of a season if Ronaldo rips you lot to shreds in Kiev?

 

[Tommy]

That's all very well, let's pretend for a moment Chelsea didn't capitulate and Liverpool finished 5th. Everything else about the wonderful football, etc still holds. But will it be a disaster of a season if Ronaldo rips you lot to shreds in Kiev?

It would've been a disappointment to finish 5th, but let's be honest, we do have the 5th best squad in the league right now (you can maybe argue Arsenal's is better on individual talent if you truly believe it's all Wenger's fault, but hey, that remains to be seen in my opinion).

Won't be a disaster if Ronaldo, Marcelo, Ramos & co beat us up. Honestly, I kinda expect it Ideally though, if we lose, I'm hoping we'll lose by a respectable margin in a game where we can hold our heads up afterwards n say hey, we gave it our best shot. A good performance in a CL final, even without the win, would still be a pretty good boon for transfers & exposure.

Not to mention pretty lucrative, right? Getting to the final alone might mean we can bring an extra midfielder in.