Just to be clear, are you saying that any victory over Madrid would be a fluke for us? What if we beat them comfortably (not saying we will but as a hypothetical)? Would that be a fluke?
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
- Start date
It will be easy to answer that question of who has had the best season after 26 May - and you are definitely in a stronger position to end up winning something. However the original quote you replied to was about whether any Utd fan would not trade seasons right now - and you essentially said you wouldn't. So are you seriously saying you would rather be in an FA cup final as opposed to a CL final?
We can only beat who we're picked against. City were one of the favourites to win it. You guys didn't play a European giant either and went out. We finished 6 points behind you whilst navigating the UCL, if we'd been knocked out when you were we'd of been much closer i have no doubt.
United fans were saying when they finished 6th it was because they put full effort into the Europa, yet the same logic doesn't apply to us for some reason. I can see clear progress being made for us and the fans are fully backing the manager, the signings he's making and the football he has us playing are brilliant. United fans are still split if Mourinho is the best man for the job.
Flukey was the wrong choice of word. That's my bitterness and hatred of all things Liverpool flowing to the surface (my bad). I meant for Liverpool to beat an experienced Euopean heavyweight such as Real Madrid, they will need a strong element of luck go in their favour (which they have had a fair amount of thus far in the campaign). That and Real will have to perform below their average standard.
If Liverpool come out of the game as viktors, they will deserve any and all accolades that come as a result of that. You just won't get any from this board!
In what respect? Feel free to point out where and how Liverpool have progressed as a football club this season more than any other from the past 3 decades.
No, that's not what was said at all. I'm merely stating the obvious, United finished above Liverpool in the table so, speaking purely from a domestic standpoint, they had the better season overall. No amount of cup runs (be that EL, FA, CL, whatever) will alter that fact unless you win one of them. As I said earlier, it's all well and good enjoying a good cup run, but unless you bring that trophy home it amounts to nothing.
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Even when you were fully focusing on the league, you were very much behind us. At one point you came close, but we beat you and widened the gap again. When a Mourinho team is 2nd early on in the campaign, it remains 2nd till the end of the season.
If Klopp wins the CL, it is progress. Otherwise it is 3 finals and 3 failures. Merely assembling a great attacking unit and playing cohesive football is not progress, just as winning trophies without a clear cut style of play isn't either. But given a choice, the latter is better as the more trophies you win, the higher you are in terms of standing in Europe and can attract better players. Style of play can be improved anytime, but a trophy winning mentality is hard to acquire.
I'd rather we lost the CL final than won the FA Cup this year.
Bit rich to become high and mighty about trophies considering your haul the last 20 years.
Losing the CL final is the worst thing in club football though. I get its a journey and experience getting there; but all the effort and excitement only to lose in the final is sickening.
Thats insanly idiotic and smells like a wind up.
How far have you fallen that you can support Liverpool and come out with a statement like that?
2 of my darkest days are the CL finals v Barca even though we waltzed to the final both times.
Deary me.
It's not to belittle the FA Cup, far from it. It's just that I get more joy, spread out over a longer period of time from a run to the CL final (basically since the first leg against City so over a month) than I get from winning the FA Cup (which woud last one or two days probably). It's great to win trophies but not the end all be all for me. I wouldn't lose a night's sleep if United ever overtook our CL trophy haul, whereas some United fans think it's the end of the world if we get to 6 while you're stuck on 3. I don't know why it bothers people that much.
Agreed.
See above, the defeat is sickening but the run to the final is so fecking great and you live on a high for more than a month, I simply don't get that with the FA Cup. Lose that final? Meh, sucks. Win that final - great, we won a trophy.
I'll put it differently: if I could chose between 4th in the league next year, the League Cup and the FA Cup, or a title run like in the 13/14 season, I'd chose the latter without a doubt. I lived with my head in the clouds from February till May during that season. And yeah yeah, we haven't won for so long, but that's just how it is for me.
Ah ok that’s fair.
What I would say though is that back to back CL qualification for a club that has only managed one top four finish since 2009 is progress, and Klopp has achieved the minimum expectation for the season.
He’s let himself down in the domestic cups though.
Be honest, other than City, you’ve played no one of note, who granted, Liverpool have the H2H advantage it seems. Compare that to Reals route, PSG, Juve and Bayern and you can see who has done well reaching the final and who has had a cushy run. Countinho wasn’t your best player either IMO, I was hoping Mane would leave, but hey ho.
Expectations are low? I thought you were the mighty Liverpool? The European giants? This is Anfield and all that bollocks. The expectations are there, they are just dismissed when you’ve done shit.
Liverpool had a marginally better GD than United too..
False. The expectations were another top 4 finish and a decent cup run. We've disappointed in the domestic cups but more than made up for it with our CL final.
The FA cup is a banter competition. I'd swap a CL for five FA cups in an instant.
What would you give for a PL trophy?
Me too. Emphasis on this year though. This run is doing a lot more for us and a lot more enjoyable than an fa Cup win.
If we were regular fixtures at the far end of both competitions two years from now, I'd rather an fa Cup than a CL silver medal though.
Ok so you would trade seasons with us right now, that makes more sense.
Certainly not one of our CLs.
I'm beginning to question your reading skills.
Really? Maybe you should check your response in post 5714. It was very clear that you were saying you wouldn't trade seasons right now. In post 5728 you then seemed to change your mind.
For the sake of clarity, here is the choice:
A) 2nd and a good chance in the FA Cup Final
OR
B) 4th and an outside chance in the CL Final
Option A. Unequivocally.
This is not even worth replying to.
So why did you then?
The risk averse option. I'm surprised considering Jose' excellent record in finals that you wouldn't rather a shot at a 4th CL - you have FA cups coming out your ears at Utd.
I wonder how many Utd fans would agree with you.
I would disagree. I thought that the option was a CL final loss or fa cup win in which case the latter is the obvious choice for me. I would choose trophy over no trophy. But if the outcome was unknown I would opt for the final with the better trophy.
No I am talking about as things stand today - ie outcome unknown in both our finals.
I loved the FA cup as a kid growing up and wish there was a way to bring back some of its allure but in the modern game I would take a shot at the CL all day long, no matter what the odds.
I'm not sure why so many of our own fans think we have an outside chance in the final. Madrid might be favourites but it's certainly not David vs Goliath. We have much better odds than we did against Milan in 05.
It's not David vs Goliath - It's Ronaldo vs Lovren. Last year Real put 4 past a much better defensive unit, and while our front three are having a stormer of a season, Real Madrid with their experience & guile will be a different experience entirely, and that Juve attack was no joke, yet still only managed a goal with that worldie of a bicycle kick.
I reckon if the match was played 10 times, we'd probably get a result in 2-3 of them. Some might call that optimistic, I've no idea. But it's definitely an outside chance.
Just like it was De Bruyne vs Milner. Or Sane vs Trent.
Madrid were a different animal last year. Can't compare our 'defensive unit' to Juve's, because we approach the game in a completely different way. I think anyone that's followed Madrid's CL campaign should be able to see that they're quite beatable by this Liverpool team, although I suppose big game experience may end up counting for a lot.
In fact, not freezing up and letting the occasion get to us is the biggest challenge we face. If we can impose our game like we did in the first legs vs City and Roma, then I really fancy us.
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Who in earth will change a CL final and TOP 4 for a second place in PL & final FA Cup? 
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I think football doesn't work the way you think, favorites don't always win the trophies, if that was the case then premier league would have been dominated by teams like derby, Nottingham Forest, Everton, Aston Villa etc. The whole point of competition is to give your best and win it and that is called the fighting spirit and that's why people watch the game.
I also have one question for you, assuming both Liverpool and Man utd loses their finals, wouldn't it make your season worse than ours because you will lose to the "One of the weakest Chelsea side in recent memory" while we will lose to the "Serial CL winner" Real Madrid?
In all honesty I would say you have already had a better season than us. Even if you lose and we win, I'd take 4th and losing a CL final over 2nd and winning an FA Cup. I may be in a minority though.
Well I do know , football fans are biased and illogical whenever they have to compare their rivals to them and I am not just talking about Man utd fans, it applies to all fans. But you seem like logical guy, somebody I can have constructive argument with, which will actually contribute to the discussion and give me an outside perspective.
Even though minority of fans will agree that 4th + CL final is better than 2nd + FA final but I am sure most will agree that Liverpool was never in the running for league or champions league. Top 4 was our target , which we achieved while giving ourselves a shot at 6th champions league. If that ain't progress, idk what will be for a team that have only managed to finish in top 4, twice( not including this year) in last 10 years.
Ofcourse an argument can be made that Man UTD has progressed more as they moved to 2nd from last year's 6th but you can only compare Liverpool's season to their last to judge the progress. Instead of comparing to rivals. If that is the game than anybody can say Man Utd haven't progressed but regressed because last year man utd finished 9 points behind man city and won the Europa league and this year they have finished 19 points behind Man city and are playing FA final.
Yeah i know the statement I made is ridiculous but nowhere near as ridiculous of a statement as "Liverpool have made no progress." Or "2nd+FA > 4th+CL".
I am part of that minority, compared to the other European powerhouses our ucl record is appalling. I am desperate for another ucl win. If we won two ucl's in the next five years and not win anything else I would be perfectly fine with it.
This is where I fundamentally disagree. Preferring to be in a FA Cup final rather than a CL final because you are less likely to lose, honestly mate why do you even watch football in the first place. Are you really that insecure about your team? A Utd fan shying away from a CL final and settling for an FA final instead for fear of losing?
Your hate for Liverpool is understandable and expected, my issue is with the supporting concept. If I could choose between a CL final with Madrid or a FA Cup final against (trying to think of the cr*ppiest possible team) Oxford Utd, I know what I would rather have, every single time. Not to mention that Chelsea are a very dangerous side, so that final is by no means guaranteed. Perhaps your experiences of facing Guardiolas Barca have left you a bit jaded when it comes to CL finals against the big 2 of Spain?
Taking an example from my own country, we consider our mere qualification to the WC this year to be the biggest achievement in Egyptian football over the last decade, bigger than winning the AFCON 3 times in a row. Biggest stage trumps all else.
If you were a Wigan or Notts County or Spurs fan I would understand, as it may really be your only shot a trophy ever.
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You're either all for trophies or you care about progress in different metrics.
Random Task boasts Utd is second opposed to 4th Liverpool in EPL, but at the same time denies progress in reaching CL final (effectively being at least 2nd in a tournament).
We've made huge progress over the last few years. CL final is good for image, finances etc. And we got there while securing top 4 with players you lot consider to be garbage.
Random Task boasts Utd is second opposed to 4th Liverpool in EPL, but at the same time denies progress in reaching CL final (effectively being at least 2nd in a tournament).
We've made huge progress over the last few years. CL final is good for image, finances etc. And we got there while securing top 4 with players you lot consider to be garbage.
It's not just about the cup finals, though. Consider where United finished the season before last, way down the table in 6th place. This is no position for a club of our size and stature to be ending the season in. A significant improvement had to be made on the domestic front before any of the cup competitions entered the equation. The league was the priority for last season, either challenging for the title (we haven't done this for over half a decade which is the equivilent of an eternity for our club) or at worst finishing in a respectable postion in the table. By hook or by crook, Jose and the players got us there. Sure the football on display was dire, sleep inducing at times, but ultimately it got the desired affect. We clawed ourselves back up to second from sixth. A vast improvement by anyones standards I'm sure you will agree. That said, I take finishing second and an FA cup final over finishing 4th and a CL final. Priority before vanity.
For next season, the priority will be to win the damn thing outright (the league that is) or at worst bring City back down to earth by way of giving them a worthy challenge for the title. Anything less will see the end of Jose, finishing in the top 4 simply won't be enough.
Who in earth will change a CL final and TOP 4 for a second place in PL & final FA Cup?
Does it make a differene if you lose it? No one remembers the losers.
1x FA Cup is greater than 0x CL what ever way you spin it.