Would be typical Liverpool to win a CL when they're nowhere in the league.
Got nothing to fear either going by Madrid's performance last night.
Worrying.
Got nothing to fear either going by Madrid's performance last night.
Worrying.
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
- Start date
Salah's scoring form this season is ridiculous, i cant see he could ever make it another time in his future career. Next year everything will be back to its normal places so hopefully this year doesnt bring them any special thing, especially the Champions League
Were are Real in their league, or Roma? Weird reasoning.
After Real's almost-horror show last night, my anxiety levels are on the rise in regard to Liverpool wining the CL. I still remember at HT in the 2005 Final when they were three down breathing a huge sigh of relief then watching the rest of it in absolute horror.
https://www.premierleague.com/news/510837
You obviously don't watch us on a regular basis I take it. Either that, or you don't understand the concept of pressing. We don't 'run like mad' all game for 38 games. Last season people were saying how playing in the CL would affect us in the league, when the fact is, our slow start to this season is the reason we're probably not challenging United for 2nd spot, despite us advancing to the semi finals in the Champions League. There's quite a few teams in the Premier League who cover more ground than us. The above article confirms this.
Salah, Firmino and Mane have scored 77 goals combined, in all official club competitions.
Can't argue with the running thing, but it seems a bit odd that you're acknowledging a slow start to the season but not attributing any part of that to playing in the CL.
You've dropped points in 14 games so far this season, 10 of which came in the first half of the season, during which time you played 8 CL games (including the qualifier), compared to 4 so far in the second half of the season. You also played an additional mid-week game in the league cup.
You drew 3-3 with Watford the game before your qualifier first leg.
You lost 5-0 to City and drew 1-1 with Burnley either side of your first group game.
You drew 1-1 with Newcastle after your second group game.
You drew 0-0 with United and lost 4-1 to Spurs either side of your third group game.
You drew 1-1 with Chelsea after your fifth group game.
You drew 1-1 with Everton after your final group game.
You lost 2-1 to United after your last 16 second leg.
You drew 0-0 with Everton after your quarter final first leg.
That's 10 games where you've dropped points either immediately before or after a mid-week CL fixture, that's 71% of your dropped points. Of the four games where you dropped points but weren't immediately before or after a CL fixture, two of them were during the Christmas fixture congestion (West Brom 0-0 was a mid-week game and Arsenal 3-3 was immediately before a mid-week game), meaning of the 14 games in which you've dropped points, just two were not immediately before or after a mid-week fixture (Swansea 1-0 and Tottenham 2-2), which means that 86% of your dropped points have come immediately before or after a mid-week game.
Yawn. 7 of those 10 games you mention are against direct rivals or our local rival. The CL hasn't affected us more or less than other teams, despite nearly everyone on here arguing otherwise before the start of the season.
If I was Liverpool fan, I'd be fearing no-one, saddens me to say it, but I don't see any of the other 3 teams dealing with their front 3.It won't be easy, but if I'm betting, I'd have to put the money on them. Their defense is still a weak line, but it's got considerably better in recent weeks, even the keeper is doing okay. I just don't see any of the other teams really being able to attack their back line and expose it. Teams attacking Liverpool and esp Real with Marcelo, have to be wary of the counter, as great as he is going forward, going back is another story and it showed v Roma. Only concern Liverpool have is the 2 legs. If their backline crumbles in an away leg, which it didn't do v City, that would be a worry.
Look at the opponents in those matches. Two games with Everton, two against United, an away trip to Newcastle and a home game with Burnley (which I’m sure you’d agree are hard fixtures), away trips to Spurs and City, with a home game against Chelsea as well.
If we’d played Watford or Swansea or Southampton at home after a CL game do you think we would’ve dropped points still?
You have mentioned 7 teams without even mentioning City, Arsenal, Leicester. So only against bottom 10 teams you can win after CL games?
There are only three losses in that list - at United, at City, at Spurs. Those are no games you'd expect us to win anyway, regardless of whether they is a CL fixture before or after said game. He even included a fecking CL qualifier, which was the 3-3 at Watford where we conceded a stoppage time offside equalizer. Context is a nice thing to have.
I saw nothing from Bayern or Real yesterday that indicated Liverpool would be massive underdogs in any tie against them. Those teams have as much to fear from Liverpool's front 3 and Klopp's style of play as Liverpool have to fear from Ronaldo and Bayern's matchwinners in every part of the pitch (bar keeper, I thought Neuer would be back by now)
I don't think he was talking about losses. He was talking about dropping points around CL fixtures.
I agree. I think Liverpool have a very good chance of winning it. They have absolutely nothing to fear about the remaining teams whatsoever. Plus I reckon their confidence is spot on to finish it off.
Okay, so your direct rivals I'm assuming includes United, City, Chelsea, Spurs and I'll give you Arsenal too, then obviously you've got Everton as your local rivals, so that's 12 games over the season, and you've been winless in 9 of the 11 you've played so far, losing 3 of them. Remove Arsenal as they haven't been a direct rival for anything for the vast majority of the season, and that's winless in 8 of 9, still having lost 3. All but one of the winless games (including the one vs Arsenal) have been part of two fixture game-weeks. That's 2 wins, both at home, from 11 games, with Chelsea away being your last remaining fixture from this group of teams.
I can't argue that it has affected you more than Chelsea or Spurs because they're a) below you in the league, and b) I can't be bothered looking up their results.
However, the post I responded to mentioned specifically that without your slow start you would be challenging United for 2nd. Your slow start included dropping points against a group of teams that you're now discounting as rivals, so either you were dropping points in those games anyway, and wouldn't have been challenging United for 2nd as was claimed, or you weren't dropping points in all of those games, and there was perhaps some sort of factor that affected your ability to get the win in those games, such as a mid-week game.
Just for your reference, here's the Liverpool and their rivals table:
Congratulations on being above Everton.
Yes.
Or, you know, we just had a slow start and that's why we dropped points in those games.Okay, so your direct rivals I'm assuming includes United, City, Chelsea, Spurs and I'll give you Arsenal too, then obviously you've got Everton as your local rivals, so that's 12 games over the season, and you've been winless in 9 of the 11 you've played so far, losing 3 of them. Remove Arsenal as they haven't been a direct rival for anything for the vast majority of the season, and that's winless in 8 of 9, still having lost 3. All but one of the winless games (including the one vs Arsenal) have been part of two fixture game-weeks. That's 2 wins, both at home, from 11 games, with Chelsea away being your last remaining fixture from this group of teams.
I can't argue that it has affected you more than Chelsea or Spurs because they're a) below you in the league, and b) I can't be bothered looking up their results.
However, the post I responded to mentioned specifically that without your slow start you would be challenging United for 2nd. Your slow start included dropping points against a group of teams that you're now discounting as rivals, so either you were dropping points in those games anyway, and wouldn't have been challenging United for 2nd as was claimed, or you weren't dropping points in all of those games, and there was perhaps some sort of factor that affected your ability to get the win in those games, such as a mid-week game.
Just for your reference, here's the Liverpool and their rivals table:
Congratulations on being above Everton.
I wouldn't agree that Burnley at home and Newcastle away are hard fixtures, no. Failure to win those fixtures is just that, which remains true whether it's United or Liverpool playing them. You're only getting by on Everton because they're your local rival, but you are the only team in the top 6 to fail to beat them this season, and you've managed 1 goal across the two fixtures. Everton is a tricky fixture for you, but I think you should always be expecting to beat them at Anfield.
I'm not sure what your point is with Watford, Swansea and Southampton is. I didn't highlight the Swansea game as an example, and you've beaten Southampton home and away this season. Watford's the only one I highlighted and I have no way of knowing how the result would have gone had you played them after rather than before a CL game. That's one game of many others though.
Of course United, City, Spurs and Chelsea represent tough fixtures, but you can't seriously tell me that you'd expect to drop points in every single one.
You dropped points in 6 of your opening 9 league fixtures. In this time, you also had 6 midweek games.
From the end of November through to the end of December you dropped points in 4 of 8 league fixtures. You had 5 midweek games in that time (2 CL, 3 PL).
You've dropped points in 2 league fixtures in March and April, both of which happened to follow midweek games.
You had a slow start from August through to mid-October when you had fixture congestion due to midweek games (CL and League Cup). You then had further fixture congestion from late-November through to the end of December (CL and PL) and dropped further points. You've had fewer mid-week games in the second half of the season, and even if you failed to win any of your remaining fixtures, still wouldn't have dropped points in as many games as the first half. Additionally, even if you reach the CL final, you won't have played as many midweek games as in the first half of the season.
Everyone predicted that fixture congestion would effect you, and all evidence points to that being true, yet even in the face of this, you're all here telling us it isn't true, with your excuse being you'd have dropped the points anyway. It's not at all controversial to suggest that fixture congestion is more likely to lead to points dropped, but here we have Liverpool fans telling us that it isn't why they dropped points, despite the vast majority of their dropped points coming during periods of fixture congestion. Go figure.
I had 2005 in mind when you won that and knocked the PL leaders out in Chelsea while being miles behind in the table.
Okay you're right, it affected us. We're still comfortably in the top four and in the CL semis so I couldn't give a damn whether it did or didn't ffs. Spurs and City were just better than us at that time, and we could play the Liverpool-United games another 100 times and it would end 0-0 in 90 of those games probably. I'd be worried if those 10 games were against the likes of Palace, Soton and other cannon fodder but they aren't. It's just a combination of both, facing strong teams and playing midweek - I'm pretty sure it wouldn't look so "bad" if it were easier games after/before midweek games so I'm not worried about it in the slightest. We're definitely not "running out of steam" in April at the moment, like so many predicted.
Of course this is coming from the guy who predicted we could easily go on a losing run or at least start struggling after the United defeat, although we've never even lost twice in a row under Klopp. In the meantime, we've demolished Watford, won at Palace despite falling behind, and eliminated City in the Champions League, so pardon me for disagreeing with you regarding Liverpool.
I never predicted a losing run. I think I predicted a mini-collapse where you could feasibly drop points a few games in a row because, which is something you very much have done under Klopp. I'm fairly sure I even backed that up with evidence about you've dropped points in the game after a defeat a number of times, and extended it because you had Crystal Palace (something of a bogey team) and Everton away coming up. At the time this wasn't a particularly bold claim, and you might have to forgive me, a United fan, for perhaps hoping Liverpool have a shite run of games.
I think you've a lot to be happy about this season, with top 4 looking all but secure and a CL semi to look forward to. Earlier in the season I thought you were in danger of missing out on top 4 and the CL being a non-event. You've proved me, and many other United fans wrong about that.
The entire reason you responded to me was because I took issue with someone saying you'd be hot on our tail without a slow start while simultaneously claiming that you haven't been affected by fixture congestion, despite the fact that the start of the season was very congested.
Also, you missed a little caveat with your "never lost twice in a row under Klopp" thing so I fixed it for you
I think it helped that Liverpool had a pretty simple run in the CL. Their group wasn't that strong and then they play a City side who have a poor record against them at anfield which gave them a big advantage, and also got used to each other having played against each other in the league the past two seasons. I believe it will be a different story when they go up against any one of the others. I even give Roma a good chance against them; they are underrated tactically.
I forgive you, I'm on a Manchester United after all
A defensively sound team will progress over two legs against them.
I think Bayern are weaker than before, but Jupp is tactically clever enough to knock out Liverpool. Yet Liverpool can fancy their chances against Bayern.
Roma is something of a wild card -- It would be 50:50 really, either team could go through.
I think Real would have the best chance of beating Liverpool without struggling too much. There is just too much experience and class in that squad for Liverpool to cope with.
Roma is something of a wild card -- It would be 50:50 really, either team could go through.
I think Real would have the best chance of beating Liverpool without struggling too much. There is just too much experience and class in that squad for Liverpool to cope with.
Lewa and co will have a field day against that Liverpool defence.
My point is that you can't perform on a regular basis at the level you showed vs City. And the link you offered confirms it. You run less in the league and are 20 pts off 1st. Actually, despite having a player with a phenomenal season in Salah, you are no better than last season.
You significantly raised your level in those CL games vs City. And still needed 4 referee decisions to go your way and the post to help you. Mad running, a lot of luck with referee calls and briliant Salah. If the referees help you on 4 occasions, you may win vs Real and Bayern too. Because even if Milner, Henderson and the Ox outrun Modric, Kroos and Casemiro, you still will be short of being good enough to beat them without referee gifts.
The CL finals thread on here was taken down right afterwards and hasn’t been seen since.
He has had good games before the City tie. Like I said, it doesn't mean he is any better at dealing with direct runners like Zaha and Rashford.
Ha you're going to have a go at a thread of Liverpool winning the European Cup disappearing?
You've spent 17 years going missing whenever Utd win anything or beat Liverpool.
He is only 19 and his game will delelop. Not sure of his odds to make the world cup but if they are good Iam on it.
Yeah, he is developing. The city games don’t mean he has ‘come of age’ though. You are just overreacting.
He plays against someone making similar runs to Rashford next week and he could look exposed again.
Anyway
4/1 on 365.
Tempted.
4/1 on 365.
Tempted.
As a natural pessimist given the last decade of despair, I am constantly looking for reasons why we can't win this. Those reasons are becoming weaker and less in number by the day.
I think if Liverpool play Real Madrid or Bayern Munich, the order of the matches is gonna be so important. For instance, Liverpool will prefer to have the 1st leg played at Anfield to get an advantage and then play on the counter in the return leg as they did vs City. However, if they played away first, they'll most probably be chasing a result at Anfield and they will not find the spaces as there is no reason for Madrid or Bayern to open up. However, I feel they are gonna play Roma with Salah scoring in the return leg at the Olimpico to send them to Kyiv without celebrating vs his old team "It's his season and It's written in the stars "
"I think they've switched to playing on the counter quite a lot. They now go in for a full press a bit more calculated and as & when the opportunity presents. As a generalization - and depending who the opposition is.
Front 3 seem prepared to do either & do it rather well, annoyingly.
Possibly related to Coutinho leaving, they are rather less gung-ho for me, MF is a bit more prosaic; less ambitious / expansive.
Front 3 seem prepared to do either & do it rather well, annoyingly.
Possibly related to Coutinho leaving, they are rather less gung-ho for me, MF is a bit more prosaic; less ambitious / expansive.
Has anyone mentioned the fact that Klopp has history as a manager against Madrid and Bayern?
Beat Mourinho's Madrid with Dortmund and beat/competed with Heynckes/Pep's Bayern.
It doesn't mean jack but he has experience and in this respect, his coaching in the Champions League and defeats of City have been very underrated.
Beat Mourinho's Madrid with Dortmund and beat/competed with Heynckes/Pep's Bayern.
It doesn't mean jack but he has experience and in this respect, his coaching in the Champions League and defeats of City have been very underrated.
Your username...I think if Liverpool play Real Madrid or Bayern Munich, the order of the matches is gonna be so important. For instance, Liverpool will prefer to have the 1st leg played at Anfield to get an advantage and then play on the counter in the return leg as they did vs City. However, if they played away first, they'll most probably be chasing a result at Anfield and they will not find the spaces as there is no reason for Madrid or Bayern to open up. However, I feel they are gonna play Roma with Salah scoring in the return leg at the Olimpico to send them to Kyiv without celebrating vs his old team "It's his season and It's written in the stars
