Liverpool - 2017/18

[Fridge chutney]

We had a poor game away from home against the second-placed team, nothing to see here really. I'm sure we'll bounce back, it was only our fourth defeat in 30 league games. We're in the top four and in the CL quarters, literally every Liverpool fan would've signed for that before the start of the season.

Utd deserved to win yesterday.

Yes it sucks to lose to a rival, especially when you engage in a discussion on said rival's forum, but the result does not change much for Liverpool. You should still make top 4, barring a collapse, as I think we were the toughest fixture remaining.

And the progress this season is still clear for all to see. But if Klopp doesn't bin Lovren then you need to ask a couple of questions. He's shite and there's no two ways about it.

The performance and result just proves that United are not as shite as RAWK and the media would have you believe

 

[VeevaVee]

The best bit is that all the Liverpool fans I know couldn't wait for the game, probably more confident than ever about getting a result.

 

[haram]

nothing to see here really.

The manner in which it happened, there really is something to see.

 

[PoTMS]

Question for the United fans. What did you think of Andy Robertson based on what you saw today?

Didn't really do anything yesterday but I've rated him for a while. In fact, I was advocating his signing earlier on in the summer after a good few seasons at Hull before you lot bought him and was perplexed when he wasn't getting benched in favour of Moreno and Milner.

 

[Dumbstar]

Didn't really do anything yesterday but I've rated him for a while. In fact, I was advocating his signing earlier on in the summer after a good few seasons at Hull before you lot bought him and was perplexed when he wasn't getting benched in favour of Moreno and Milner.

Perplexed me no end for months. I suppose Klopp likes giving everyone a fair chance, and then some. Same thing happened with Mig and is happening with Lovren now.

One lesson I have taken away is that, unlike Rodgers, he actually does get rid of you for good if you don't make the standard. So Lovren is next, thank God.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Old Trafford is never a happy hunting ground for us. I don't think our performance level was overly awful - Utd even restricted City to two scrappy goals and very few chances in the game earlier this season so you can't expect to slice them open and create chance after chance, especially after going two goals down. Lukaku and Rashford essentially won you the game in that first period - but at least we galvanised in the second half.

They looked very poor yesterday, not a patch on the Chelsea side that came to OT a couple of weeks ago

I think what’s obvious is that none of the front three have much variety in their game. Coutinho was on another level and could pull something out of thin air but these three, good as they are, seem to need spaces to exploit to be at their best

It was noticeable yesterday how many times they gave the ball away cheaply. I think their whole game is based around pinching it up the pitch and exploiting the space. If you take away the opportunity for them to nick it and get compact behind the ball when defending they look short of ideas

And yet but for the referee absolutely shitting himself from making any big calls, we'd have come away with at least a point.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Old Trafford is never a happy hunting ground for us. I don't think our performance level was overly awful - Utd even restricted City to two scrappy goals and very few chances in the game earlier this season so you can't expect to slice them open and create chance after chance, especially after going two goals down. Lukaku and Rashford essentially won you the game in that first period - but at least we galvanised in the second half.

Reasonable, thought out post and...

And yet but for the referee absolutely shitting himself from making any big calls, we'd have come away with at least a point.

Oh blame the referee for non-existent penalty shouts. What, pray tell, should you have got yesterday?

 

[Lentwood]

Makes you wonder how we’ve managed 60 points from 30 games. It’s so easy to beat us based on one game of football yesterday.

I’m not saying you are poor I’m saying we made you look poor by negating your strengths

Against City, for example, despite them blowing everyone else away you looked fantastic because they played into your hands somewhat

My point on Coutinho is that I don’t think Utd would have found it as easy to defend that way if you had Coutinho, mainly because he can and often did pick the ball up and shoot from distance or pull something out of nothing against a deep defence

 

[Lentwood]

Old Trafford is never a happy hunting ground for us. I don't think our performance level was overly awful - Utd even restricted City to two scrappy goals and very few chances in the game earlier this season so you can't expect to slice them open and create chance after chance, especially after going two goals down. Lukaku and Rashford essentially won you the game in that first period - but at least we galvanised in the second half.

And yet but for the referee absolutely shitting himself from making any big calls, we'd have come away with at least a point.

But for Juan Mata missing a glorious chance we go in at HT 3-0 up and the games over

But for Bailly scoring a one in a million comedy OG you don’t score and fail to have a shot on target in the last hour of the game

Blaming marginal refereeing decisions doesn’t change any of the above

 

[Fridge chutney]

And yet but for the referee absolutely shitting himself from making any big calls, we'd have come away with at least a point.

We'd have just started outclassing you again had you actually created a chance and scored. But you didn't so we sat back in preparation for Sevilla.

 

[TheReligion]

Old Trafford is never a happy hunting ground for us. I don't think our performance level was overly awful - Utd even restricted City to two scrappy goals and very few chances in the game earlier this season so you can't expect to slice them open and create chance after chance, especially after going two goals down. Lukaku and Rashford essentially won you the game in that first period - but at least we galvanised in the second half.



And yet but for the referee absolutely shitting himself from making any big calls, we'd have come away with at least a point.

Come away with at least a point?

You were sounding pretty reasonable until the point you started acting all Klopp.

As Carragher said the only penalty shout which was borderline was the Valencia handball. You can't blame the ref for not giving it though as it wasn't deliberate and it hit his trailing hand as he moved forwards. The rest were all pretty weak. The fact you didn't register a shot on target second half and didn't even force DDG into a meaningful save after 90 minutes suggests to me you got what you deserved - nothing.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Reasonable, thought out post and...



Oh blame the referee for non-existent penalty shouts. What, pray tell, should you have got yesterday?

Come away with at least a point?

You were sounding pretty reasonable until the point you started acting all Klopp.

As Carragher said the only penalty shout which was borderline was the Valencia handball. You can't blame the ref for not giving it though as it wasn't deliberate and it hit his trailing hand as he moved forwards. The rest were all pretty weak. The fact you didn't register a shot on target second half and didn't even force DDG into a meaningful save after 90 minutes suggests to me you got what you deserved - nothing.

Valencia handball, Mane/Fellaini, Salah/Young, Valencia Karate kicking Mane.

It doesn't take away from that fact that we can't blame anyone else for going 2-0 down - but you can point to instances where all of those have been given in other games this season.

Apart from Carragher, it seems that most other pundits agreed. Even Gary Neville.

 

[roonster09]

Valencia handball, Mane/Fellaini, Salah/Young, Valencia Karate kicking Mane.

It doesn't take away from that fact that we can't blame anyone else for going 2-0 down - but you can point to instances where all of those have been given in other games this season.

Apart from Carragher, it seems that most other pundits agreed. Even Gary Neville.

Mane fouled Fellaini, Young didn't foul Salah. Every contact is not a foul.

Also didn't Lovren smash McTominay with his elbow? That was early in the game.

 

[TheReligion]

Valencia handball, Mane/Fellaini, Salah/Young, Valencia Karate kicking Mane.

It doesn't take away from that fact that we can't blame anyone else for going 2-0 down - but you can point to instances where all of those have been given in other games this season.

Apart from Carragher, it seems that most other pundits agreed. Even Gary Neville.

Nah. Most pundits said they were soft. The fact we are plucking together debatable penalty shouts as your highlights speaks volumes to me.

The only ones your players appealed for was the handball and the Fellaini one. The later has been shown to be nothing more than a tangle of feet initiated by Mane himself.

The handball is the only one which I think you could argue over. Even still. You deserved nothing.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Valencia handball, Mane/Fellaini, Salah/Young, Valencia Karate kicking Mane.

It doesn't take away from that fact that we can't blame anyone else for going 2-0 down - but you can point to instances where all of those have been given in other games this season.

Apart from Carragher, it seems that most other pundits agreed. Even Gary Neville.

They were all rubbish shouts. The only one that is even remotely debatable is Salah on Young. Valencia 'handball' is a classic case of fans forgetting the 'deliberate' part.

You'd be absolutely livid if any of them had gone against you.

 

[Peanut Butter]

Valencia handball, Mane/Fellaini, Salah/Young, Valencia Karate kicking Mane.

It doesn't take away from that fact that we can't blame anyone else for going 2-0 down - but you can point to instances where all of those have been given in other games this season.

Apart from Carragher, it seems that most other pundits agreed. Even Gary Neville.

Clutching.

 

[TheReligion]

They were all rubbish shouts. The only one that is even remotely debatable is Salah on Young. Valencia 'handball' is a classic case of fans forgetting the 'deliberate' part.

You'd be absolutely livid if any of them had gone against you.

Salah didn't even appeal for that!

 

[haram]

Liverpool were shite end of .

All these cries for penalties are not going to make you a better team and win you anything. Worry about Chelsea and 4th place now .

 

[NinjaFletch]

Salah didn't even appeal for that!

Oh, it would have been soft as shite, but at least you could make an argument that technically Young did impede him.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Nah. Most pundits said they were soft. The fact we are plucking together debatable penalty shouts as your highlights speaks volumes to me.

The only ones your players appealed for was the handball and the Fellaini one. The later has been shown to be nothing more than a tangle of feet initiated by Mane himself.

The handball is the only one which I think you could argue over. Even still. You deserved nothing.

Mane fouled Fellaini, Young didn't foul Salah. Every contact is not a foul.

Also didn't Lovren smash McTominay with his elbow? That was early in the game.

They were all rubbish shouts. The only one that is even remotely debatable is Salah on Young.

You'd be absolutely livid if any of them had gone against you.

I suppose we could go around in circles about them all day if we wanted to. It's especially galling because that same referee gave a soft pen against Lovren in the Derby back in December. Feck it's, it's done.

 

[TheReligion]

I suppose we could go around in circles about them all day if we wanted to. It's especially galling because that same referee gave a soft pen against Lovren in the Derby back in December. Feck it's, it's done.

The narrative before the game was you lot were going to anhilate us and DDG would have to be everywhere.

What actually happened was we cut you apart like a knife through butter whilst DDG could have been banging Edurne whilst sipping a glass of Rioja in Madrid yet you still wouldn't have scored a goal.

 

[Peanut Butter]

I suppose we could go around in circles about them all day if we wanted to. It's especially galling because that same referee gave a soft pen against Lovren in the Derby back in December. Feck it's, it's done.

You're always hard done by, you lot. Forever whinging about refs.

 

[Rob]

We were poor yesterday and got what we deserved. We got Mourinhoed, but hopefully we’ll shake it off like we’ve done before. The chase for top 4 looks intense.

 

[Alex99]

You're always hard done by, you lot. Forever whinging about refs.

I don't really get the line of argument they're taking. Talking about 3 or 4 potential soft penalties and 2 potential red cards that only they've mentioned, harping on about being the better side, when the reality is that the apparent best attacking trio in Europe managed just two shots on target, and the goal they scored wasn't even one of them.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I don't really get the line of argument they're taking. Talking about 3 or 4 potential soft penalties and 2 potential red cards that only they've mentioned, harping on about being the better side, when the reality is that the apparent best attacking trio in Europe managed just two shots on target, and the goal they scored wasn't even one of them.

I think they think penalty shouts are like a loyalty card. 4 soft shouts = 1 actual pen.

 

[RobinLFC]

I don't really get the line of argument they're taking. Talking about 3 or 4 potential soft penalties and 2 potential red cards that only they've mentioned, harping on about being the better side, when the reality is that the apparent best attacking trio in Europe managed just two shots on target, and the goal they scored wasn't even one of them.

For once, I agree with you. You have to look at yourself when you get beaten and ask what you could've done better or differently, not talk about the referee or blaming someone else. We weren't good enough and United deserved to win, end of.

Some on here are overreacting as well though. We've been worthy of a top four place this whole season, and while Chelsea are only four points behind again, we are still on course to achieve the top four finish. One setback or poor performance doesn't mean we "were found out today" * nor that we will struggle in our next, supposedly more easier games. It was a poor performance resulting in a defeat, but the three points next week will be worth just as much for us in the grand scheme of things.

* Except maybe when you're talking about how to play against us. But even then, seemingly everyone knows it by know and yet so few succeed so that means it's a bit harder to do so than everyone is making out. United (and Mourinho) are good at it so no surprise you won yesterday.

 

[automaticflare]

Old Trafford is never a happy hunting ground for us. I don't think our performance level was overly awful - Utd even restricted City to two scrappy goals and very few chances in the game earlier this season so you can't expect to slice them open and create chance after chance, especially after going two goals down. Lukaku and Rashford essentially won you the game in that first period - but at least we galvanised in the second half.



And yet but for the referee absolutely shitting himself from making any big calls, we'd have come away with at least a point.

Literally none of the peno appeals were penos, at best they were debatable so get a bloody grip.

 

[automaticflare]

For once, I agree with you. You have to look at yourself when you get beaten and ask what you could've done better or differently, not talk about the referee or blaming someone else. We weren't good enough and United deserved to win, end of.

Some on here are overreacting as well though. We've been worthy of a top four place this whole season, and while Chelsea are only four points behind again, we are still on course to achieve the top four finish. One setback or poor performance doesn't mean we "were found out today" * nor that we will struggle in our next, supposedly more easier games. It was a poor performance resulting in a defeat, but the three points next week will be worth just as much for us in the grand scheme of things.

* Except maybe when you're talking about how to play against us. But even then, seemingly everyone knows it by know and yet so few succeed so that means it's a bit harder to do so than everyone is making out. United (and Mourinho) are good at it so no surprise you won yesterday.

Agree for the most part. I think the found out narrative is about Klopp. He literally cannot change the way he plays any game, so if someone packs the defence you generally struggle.
There is a carbon of how to play against Liverpool and the manager has not improved that at all yet he is some sort of messiah.

 

[Alex99]

The reality though is that Chelsea are not in good form, in a bit of a crisis. Can't see them putting on a run of wins.

Wasn't for the RAWK thread so I brought it here.

I'd be very surprised if United were to miss out now, and very much expect it to be between Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. Spurs have just lost Kane for an indeterminate amount of time after he got injured today, which could dent their hopes, Chelsea have been in a bit of a slump, but a win over Spurs in their next league game could be the kickstart they need, and it'll be interesting to see how Liverpool bounce back from yesterday, as they're typically a mixed bag after losing.

Currently their record under Klopp after a defeat that ended any sort of unbeaten run that included at least 1 win looks like this:

Lost to Swansea, followed that by losing to West Brom in the FA Cup.
Lost to Tottenham, followed that by beating Huddersfield.
Lost to City, followed that by drawing with Burnley, then losing to Leicester in the League Cup.
Lost to Palace, followed that by beating Watford.
Lost to Leicester, followed that by beating Arsenal.
Lost to Southampton in the League cup, followed that by drawing with United.
Lost to Swansea, followed that by losing to Southampton in the League Cup, losing to Wolves in the FA Cup, drawing with Chelsea, then losing to Hull.
Lost to Bournemouth, followed that by drawing with West Ham.
Lost to Burnley, followed by that beating Burton Albion in the League Cup.
Lost to Sevilla in the Europa League. No game followed that season, but the loss did follow draws against Chelsea and West Brom.
Lost to Villarreal in the Europa League, followed that by losing to Swansea.
Lost to Southampton, followed that by drawing with Tottenham.
Lost to City in the League Cup, followed that by beating City.
Lost to Stoke in the League Cup, followed that by drawing with West Ham in the FA Cup, losing to Leicester, drawing with Sunderland, then losing to West Ham in the FA Cup.
Lost to United, followed that by beating Exeter in the FA Cup.
Lost to West Ham, followed that by beating Stoke in the League Cup.
Lost to Newcastle, followed that by drawing with Sion in the Europa League, drawing with West Brom, then losing to Watford.
Lost to Palace, followed that by beating City.

Since taking charge, Klopp's Liverpool have had an unbeaten run containing at least 1 win ended 18 times (la). One of those was the last game of the season, so in the interest of fairness, we'll exclude that one because there were no games immediately following it. Of the 17 remaining run ending defeats, they've bounced back with a win just 8 times, and those 8 wins include 3 cup wins, against Exeter City, Burton Albion and Stoke City respectively. On 4 occasions, a run ending defeat has led to drawing or losing two or more of the following games.

Watford at home seems an easy 3 points on paper, but Klopp's Liverpool have been a mixed bag when it comes to bouncing back from defeat, so I wouldn't be counting my chickens just yet if I were a Liverpool supporter. Following that they've got Palace away, and Palace have been something of a bogey team for Liverpool over the last few years, then the Merseyside derby at Everton. Failure to bounce back with a win against Watford could well turn into a run of four games without a win if they're not careful.

 

[RobinLFC]

Agree for the most part. I think the found out narrative is about Klopp. He literally cannot change the way he plays any game, so if someone packs the defence you generally struggle.
There is a carbon of how to play against Liverpool and the manager has not improved that at all yet he is some sort of messiah.

Try to look at it from our POV and maybe you'll understand it better (not saying I adore him or anything, I know he has his flaws).

Took us to two finals in his first year, is on course to achieve a top 4 finish in consecutive years for the first time in almost a decade, we're in the CL quarters for the first time in almost a decade, all whilst playing some very exciting stuff. He came to us almost universally loved by football fans because of what he did at Dortmund, of course most of us love him and are proud to have him as our coach. His (mis)behaviour gets magnified on here sometimes, since of course he's no saint either and a bit of a hypocrit sometimes (as all PL managers are). Some Utd fans can see Mourinho for what he is but just have a "I don't care as long as he wins things" mindset which is fine, while I do think Klopp can do no wrong for a lot of Liverpool fans.

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

Sit back and let Liverpool make a mistake.

It's how you beat them.

 

[automaticflare]

Try to look at it from our POV and maybe you'll understand it better (not saying I adore him or anything, I know he has his flaws).

Took us to two finals in his first year, is on course to achieve a top 4 finish in consecutive years for the first time in almost a decade, we're in the CL quarters for the first time in almost a decade, all whilst playing some very exciting stuff. He came to us almost universally loved by football fans because of what he did at Dortmund, of course most of us love him and are proud to have him as our coach. His (mis)behaviour gets magnified on here sometimes, since of course he's no saint either and a bit of a hypocrit sometimes (as all PL managers are). Some Utd fans can see Mourinho for what he is but just have a "I don't care as long as he wins things" mindset which is fine, while I do think Klopp can do no wrong for a lot of Liverpool fans.

If your happy in your nappy then all good.

The general narrative that you are glad to not win things playing four football is nonsense. Rafa was a master at nullifying opposition and rely on magic from either Torres or Gerard to win games, and in late 80s were exactly the same. Look at the last few minutes of the arsenal game where rocastle scored as an example of utter dourness when you thought you were going to win the league.

The faith and hype bestowed on Klopp is borderline cultish at times and using attacking football touted as an excuse because he has won feck all and an example of Mourinho tactics as a disgrace to football when you guys have been at it for years and years.

There are limitations to Jose tactics but from United perspective, but he has won 2 trophies, and though that we just played expansive football under fergie is wrong. fergie was no stranger to nullifying an opposition as a means to an end. Problem with Klopp is he doesn’t have that in him, and he won’t change. Would be surprised if he wins anything with you, especially with contempt he seems to have for the cup comps in England.

 

[Alex99]

For once, I agree with you. You have to look at yourself when you get beaten and ask what you could've done better or differently, not talk about the referee or blaming someone else. We weren't good enough and United deserved to win, end of.

Some on here are overreacting as well though. We've been worthy of a top four place this whole season, and while Chelsea are only four points behind again, we are still on course to achieve the top four finish. One setback or poor performance doesn't mean we "were found out today" * nor that we will struggle in our next, supposedly more easier games. It was a poor performance resulting in a defeat, but the three points next week will be worth just as much for us in the grand scheme of things.

* Except maybe when you're talking about how to play against us. But even then, seemingly everyone knows it by know and yet so few succeed so that means it's a bit harder to do so than everyone is making out. United (and Mourinho) are good at it so no surprise you won yesterday.

I think Klopp was found out ages ago, and before he even arrived in Liverpool, but the problem is that his attack is often just that little bit too potent to get a result against him. It's why the likes of United will generally get a more favourable result, but Huddersfield will struggle. Football is a bit like a complex rock, paper, scissors, with tactics having their strengths and weaknesses, but in general, better teams with better players will win regardless of whether the tactic they face is strong against them.

It was the same for Fergie in some of his last seasons. Any midfield press against us left us vulnerable, but ultimately, we had better players and could cope with it well enough to still win more often than not.

The top 4 race is interesting now. I'd like to think United are safe in that regard, and hope we continue to cement 2nd. It's very tight between you, Spurs and Chelsea though. An injury to Kane could be disastrous for Spurs (he's scored 41% of their league goals) so they'll be hoping he's back sooner rather than later, and any long-term injury could result in their heads dropping, or could fire them up to rally round in his absence. Chelsea seem to be in a real slump right now (just 2 wins but 4 defeats in their last 6 league games), but a win against Spurs in their next game could kickstart their season. As I've outlined in another post, Liverpool under Klopp are very much a mixed bag after a defeat. You might, as expected, go on to beat Watford next week. There's also the risk of a mini-collapse starting, with Palace and Everton away to follow.

 

[Random Task]

For once, I agree with you. You have to look at yourself when you get beaten and ask what you could've done better or differently, not talk about the referee or blaming someone else. We weren't good enough and United deserved to win, end of.

Some on here are overreacting as well though. We've been worthy of a top four place this whole season, and while Chelsea are only four points behind again, we are still on course to achieve the top four finish. One setback or poor performance doesn't mean we "were found out today" * nor that we will struggle in our next, supposedly more easier games. It was a poor performance resulting in a defeat, but the three points next week will be worth just as much for us in the grand scheme of things.

* Except maybe when you're talking about how to play against us. But even then, seemingly everyone knows it by know and yet so few succeed so that means it's a bit harder to do so than everyone is making out. United (and Mourinho) are good at it so no surprise you won yesterday.

It's one thing possessing the strategical knowledge with which to beat this Liverpool team, 'tis quite another having players skilled enough enough to carry out that beating. United clearly have both in abundance.

United have played Liverpool 4 times during Jose's relatively short tenure, and in those 4 games Liverpool have yet to register a legitimate goal from open player - the two they have scored came from a penalty and an own goal - this is not a coincidence, it's simply Jose possessing the tactical knowledge with which nullify Liverpool's attacking threat.

If Jurgen wishes to reverse this reality then he needs to dig deep and come up with an alternate gameplan, because as it stands his default system is predictable and extremely vulnerable to an efficient counterattacking unit, which is precisely what United are under Jose.

I don't think Klopp has the tactical sense to achieve that goal, instead he is forced to rely on his players to overcome a large strategic disadvantage through sheer force of will. Blind faith will only get you so far though.

Short version: Jose is better than Klopp.

 

[automaticflare]

It's one thing possessing the strategical knowledge with which to beat this Liverpool team, 'tis quite another having players skilled enough enough to carry out that beating. United clearly have both in abundance.

United have played Liverpool 4 times during Jose's relatively short tenure, and in those 4 games Liverpool have yet to register a legitimate goal from open player - the two they have scored came from a penalty and an own goal - this is not a coincidence, it's simply Jose possessing the tactical knowledge with which nullify Liverpool's attacking threat.

If Jurgen wishes to reverse this reality then he needs to dig deep and come up with an alternate gameplan, because as it stands his default system is predictable and extremely vulnerable to an efficient counterattacking unit, which is precisely what United under Jose are.

I don't think Klopp has the tactical sense to achieve that goal, instead he is forced to rely on his players to overcome a large strategic disadvantage through sheer force of will. Blind faith will only get you so far though.

Short version: Jose is better than Klopp.

Much more eloquently put than my dithering but on the same line

 

[Random Task]

Much more eloquently put than my dithering but on the same line

Great minds and all that.

 

[eat_grass]

Mourinho has a knack of making high-powered offenses look devoid of ideas (in before the "yeah, his own team's offense, too!!" jokes). He neutralizes opponent's strengths and asks them to execute a plan B. Which team has done that successfully this season? Man City scored on two Lukaku mistakes, not from their usual free-flowing offense -- they were neutralized and until the last 10 minutes of the game were desperately holding on. Same for Spurs at Old Trafford -- no goals in 95 minutes. Chelsea came the closest, but even they struggled to create meaningful chances.

My point is: Liverpool "had a poor game" because United made them have a poor game.

 

[Dumbstar]

Utd made Liverpool shit their pants. Jose's plan worked perfectly, as nearly all his plans at home do. Mata should have killed the game off a lot sooner to end any lingering doubt.

But this was one game. 3 points. Liverpool used to beat Utd while Ferguson laughed his way to endless trophies. To him it was just three reasonably meaningless points dropped. Certainly the bragging rights are with Utd this weekend and some Pool fans seem to have been affected worse than others (Carra, the twat). But the real important game for Utd is this Tuesday. Get knocked out and the result against Liverpool and Carra's imminent sacking will not heal the wounds.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Mourinho has a knack of making high-powered offenses look devoid of ideas (in before the "yeah, his own team's offense, too!!" jokes). He neutralizes opponent's strengths and asks them to execute a plan B. Which team has done that successfully this season? Man City scored on two Lukaku mistakes, not from their usual free-flowing offense -- they were neutralized and until the last 10 minutes of the game were desperately holding on. Same for Spurs at Old Trafford -- no goals in 95 minutes. Chelsea came the closest, but even they struggled to create meaningful chances.

My point is: Liverpool "had a poor game" because United made them have a poor game.

This. Liverpool weren't suddenly just poor. They were poor because Mourinho and United made them so.

 

[Jamie L]

This. Liverpool weren't suddenly just poor. They were poor because Mourinho and United made them so.

Totally agree. Just wanted to say, well played United. Mourinho gets lots of stick but he’s still a World class manager. I thought his tactics mirrored the Arsenal game (when they weren’t so bad) and Jurgen had no real answer to them. That said, I think both sides are in the ascendency. Anyway, as I said, well done and well played. That said I hope we get a chance of revenge in Europe.