Liverpool - 2017/18

Hearing our fans sing the liar song and the Suarez song made me cringe. Suarez was justly banned for racially abusing Evra. Suarez deserves no kind of special treatment. He has put our club and our fans in difficult situations with his stupid and despicable actions.

That said, I am not against booing Evra for the right reasons. Because he is a former Manc like Hernandez. Because he love(d)s to provoke our fans himself. Because he is so small time that he went all ninja on his own fans in France. Those are some very decent reasons to boo the man.

When Suarez comes to visit Old trafford with Barca, I don't expect anything less from your fans than make it a night he won't forget.
 
anything that stops the dirge-tastic YAWN drivel from being bashed out for a little while is fine with me, ;)
 
Costanza said:
This desire to tiptoe around using the word 'racist' does my head in. If you direct abuse at a player that called out racism, that is racist. It's not just 'inappropriate' or 'deluded' or whatever other euphemism people want to use - it's straight out racism, even if not in its intent then most certainly in its discriminatory impact on Evra and by virtue of the fact that it pretty directly gives support to the general structure of racism. Kind of like how if you believe the conspiracy that Jews run the world, you're being anti-semitic and not just an idiot.

You can be idiotic/deluded and racist at the same time. In fact, it's pretty common. Let's not minimise the very serious harm stuff like this does in an attempt to spare the sensibilities of football fans that would prefer not to think of themselves as racist.
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This.
 
redman5 said:
... The one area where Jurgen Klopp is far superior to Rodgers is in Europe. Brendan's record, & a lot of our performances, were very poor. I certainly doubt we'd be looking forward to a quarter final tie in the CL if he were still our gaffer.
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What about Brendan's record against other top 6 teams?
 
OneFootball said:
I was in the Anfield Road end for Europa League match a few seasons back. What came out of sections of your fan base was vile and disgusting, aimed at persons deceased. I saw others in the lower Main Stand, from our fan base respond, which was equally vile and disgusting and also aimed at persons deceased. Its an apauling indictment of sections of both our fan base. I’ve already said that what happened to Patrice Évra was wrong and not acceptable, I didn’t and dont use the word ‘disgusting’ as I reserve that for what I witnessed above.
However wrong we personally view what happened to Evra, in my opinion it pales in comparison to insulting the dead. But thats only my opinion, and in no way does it indemnify any supporter abusing any player for any reason.

+ Idiots like Riise only serve to inflame and incite these situations - football can be a dark place.


It appears that I had exceeded my post quota for the day so unable to respond until this morning !!
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I'm really not sure what Munich and Hillsborough have to do with Patrice Evra.

The bloke was racially abused by one of your players. A player who did nothing but disgrace your club time after time before ditching you for a move. I find the notion you have some bizarre loyalty to him equally strange.

What concerns me is huge sections of the crowd were both chanting for Suarez yesterday and calling Evra a lying bastard. It didn't sound like a minority to me. That's why it was disgusting and ignorant and is no way comparable with Munich or Hillsborough.
 
Rafateria said:
With Klopper on this. In fact on the LFC forums I inhabit that vast majority are also with him.

As has been said it's the brain-dead minority who don't see the damage they are doing (to both the club and anti-racism) and hypocrisy (Brewster - though I doubt most of them have even heard his name) of their actions. That said I'd not be against booing Evra per se of course as he is an ex- long serving Manc !
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That's fair enough. My concern is it didn't appear to be a minority involved yesterday.

A few of my neutral supporting mates messaged during match of the day and said what a disgrace it was.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Cassady said:
I reckon the second leg against Porto is going to Traveller us though . I hope we don't succumb to the away goal.
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:lol:

If we take the Porto game completely out of our schedule, Klopp has one league game a week to prepare for until April when the CL quarter finals begin. An international week in March just to break things up even more.

Admittedly, we have 4 away league games in a row after Newcastle but our players are chomping at the bit to get selected (look at Can, Milner and Ox's output to not lose their places in a world cup year).
 
TheReligion said:
That's fair enough. My concern is it didn't appear to be a minority involved yesterday.

A few of my neutral supporting mates messaged during match of the day and said what a disgrace it was.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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I think it's really difficult to assess what number of people were involved. I'm sure you have been to away games where maybe you were part of say 2,000 travelling supporters, who, even if only 500 are singing, can really make themselves heard above the home crowd. The other issue is the positioning of the TV mikes. And of course with Evra how many were booing because he is an ex-Manc and how many were involved in the vile chanting ? Unless someone was at the ground I'd say it's very difficult to assess from radio/TV. Maybe I'll ask this question of a few match-goers.
 
If they add Alisson or someone close to his level, they will be challenging next year for the league title. Keita is someone i also think will improve their style even more
 
TheReligion said:
I'm really not sure what Munich and Hillsborough have to do with Patrice Evra.

The bloke was racially abused by one of your players. A player who did nothing but disgrace your club time after time before ditching you for a move. I find the notion you have some bizarre loyalty to him equally strange.

What concerns me is huge sections of the crowd were both chanting for Suarez yesterday and calling Evra a lying bastard. It didn't sound like a minority to me. That's why it was disgusting and ignorant and is no way comparable with Munich or Hillsborough.
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But I never compared it! I think your issue with me was choice of words; not using disgusting instead of ‘wrong and not acceptable’ - I defined what is ‘disgusting’ to me in terms of what went on in our Europa League tie. That wasn’t a comparison to what happened to Evra yesterday and I dont know how you could possibly have interpreted to be.
And neither have I at any stage expressed any loyalty towards Suarez in regard to his racism towards Evra - I dont know where you’re getting this from. Anyway, I can see that your tone is in meltdown so best leave it at that.
 
Pelé as a Comedian said:
Yeah thats bs you're spouting there. While I agree Evra was a victim and that the club and certain fans have behaved and reacted indecently regarding the Suarez/Evra incident I'd very much like to know how exactly tweeting "give a certain player an afternoon he wont forget" is actively supporting racism and encouraging physical assault?
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A large number of Kop fans were chanting Luis Suarez's name after Ever was fouled, on numerous occasions I might add, clearly they perceived this tweet the same way I did.
 
izec said:
If they add Alisson or someone close to his level, they will be challenging next year for the league title. Keita is someone i also think will improve their style even more
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Karius has until season’s end to prove that he is good enough to be a top No.1. If he continues as he is, and he had a good game yesterday again, knowing Klopp as we do; he wont go and spend on a new keeper.
That might appear daft to many, both inside and outside of LFC, but Klopp looks for solutions within the Club before he looks to the transfer market. Call it blind loyalty or whatever but that is part of the package with Klopp.
 
Random Task said:
A large number of Kop fans were chanting Luis Suarez's name after Ever was fouled, on numerous occasions I might add, clearly they perceived this tweet the same way I did.
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Yeah, in a world where all Liverpool fans follow Riise on twitter and act according to his orders that would be 1+1=2 indeed.
 
Rafateria said:
I think it's really difficult to assess what number of people were involved. I'm sure you have been to away games where maybe you were part of say 2,000 travelling supporters, who, even if only 500 are singing, can really make themselves heard above the home crowd. The other issue is the positioning of the TV mikes. And of course with Evra how many were booing because he is an ex-Manc and how many were involved in the vile chanting ? Unless someone was at the ground I'd say it's very difficult to assess from radio/TV. Maybe I'll ask this question of a few match-goers.
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Your fans weren't just booing. They were yelling "lying bastard" and "Suarez" and very audibly that. This is obviously not due to Evra being an ex-Manc (plenty of ex-Mancs play at Anfield without much fuss), but because he had the audacity to be on the receiving end of racial abuse by a Liverpool player - who was then publicly backed by your whole club. Yesterday, before the game, John Arne Riise even encouraged people to "give a certain player an afternoon he will never forget!". And now Klopp refuses to criticize the chants. This continues to be a shameful part of your club's history.
 
KjaAnd said:
Your fans weren't just booing. They were yelling "lying bastard" and "Suarez" and very audibly that. This is obviously not due to Evra being an ex-Manc (plenty of ex-Mancs play at Anfield without much fuss), but because he had the audacity to be on the receiving end of racial abuse by a Liverpool player - who was then publicly backed by your whole club. Yesterday, before the game, John Arne Riise even encouraged people to "give a certain player an afternoon he will never forget!". And now Klopp refuses to criticize the chants. This continues to be a shameful part of your club's history.
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How could you possibly miss where I said 'vile chanting ' ? Oh I know - it's because you jumped straight onto your keyboard and bashed away without actually reading the content properly.
 
TheReligion said:
That's fair enough. My concern is it didn't appear to be a minority involved yesterday.

A few of my neutral supporting mates messaged during match of the day and said what a disgrace it was.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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While I do totally agree that it was disgusting and embarrassing I think the term minority is being applied to Liverpool's fan base in general and not just those fecking idiots inside the stadium.
On another note what did you think of the match itself as I don't think you have mentioned that at any point.
 
Random Task said:
A large number of Kop fans were chanting Luis Suarez's name after Ever was fouled, on numerous occasions I might add, clearly they perceived this tweet the same way I did.
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Nothing clear about it at all, but like most football fans you are quick enough to jump to whichever conclusion best appeals to you. A human trait that can also be readily seen in politics etc. Now lets be clear, Suarez said something racist to Evra, called him Negrito was it ? And then followed up with "I dont talk to blacks" ? Completely unacceptable, as was the clubs and some fans response. Full disclosure I myself regret not condemning Suarez' actions initially and instead try and excuse and deflect them, prior to learning what exactly was said i'd like to add. Im susceptible to tribalism as much as anyone. I'd like to point out though that Evra himself, if i remember correctly, said that he didnt think Suarez was racist per se in a report.

But see, theres not only the racist incident between Suarez and Evra but also the whole fallout, including for example Evra fist pumping exaggeratedly deliberately in front of Suarez after a win, the handshake fiascos etc. Theres simply a convoluted history between the two and by extension the fans. Tribalism goes a long way though and in a Them v Us situation, you can easily call booing Evra and chanting Suarez' name wrong, crass etc (and rightly so) but throwing around "all scouse dippers are racist and Riise is racist" is just another example of said ill thought out tribalism. Break the cycle, rise above, to quote Rick Sanchez.
 
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redman5 said:
I was a big fan of Brendan Rodgers, I thought he did an excellent job considering his limited managerial background prior to taking over. He got us closer to winning the PL than any other manager, & he had us playing some terrific stuff. Looking back though, I feel the job became too big for him when he had to deal with the loss of Suarez, the long-term injuries to Sturridge, & the fact that players like Gerrard & Carragher had come to the end of their playing careers. Given the same opportunities as Klopp I'm not convinced he'd have us playing at the level we're playing right now. & this is coming from someone who's been highly critical of our German manager in the past. The one area where Jurgen Klopp is far superior to Rodgers is in Europe. Brendan's record, & a lot of our performances, were very poor. I certainly doubt we'd be looking forward to a quarter final tie in the CL if he were still our gaffer.
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I think you have shown great commitment and great character in this post
 
TheReligion said:
Be interesting to see what our regulars think about the dogs abuse Evra got today for being the victim of racism at Anfield?

Thus far, and credit to him, only @Klopper76 has been direct enough to tackle the disgusting behaviour head on and give his thoughts.

@Rafateria @Tommy @Dumbstar @B20 @RobinLFC @PickledRed @ShadesOfTomato @Cassady @johnny boy @Oga on top. @Liver_bird
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Isn't this a bit "the moslems need to clearly condemn the wackjobs committing terror because Moslems dunnit?"

The Suarez songs are well inappropriate. Even if Suarez didn't have racist intent, evra had every right to react and Liverpool fans need to realise he did nothing wrong.

The boos are neither here nor there. I am sure some of it came from the same place , and some of it from him being a united legend. Hernandez also got booed when he came on.
 
izec said:
If they add Alisson or someone close to his level, they will be challenging next year for the league title. Keita is someone i also think will improve their style even more
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Nice to see someone trying to actually talk about something other than slating the Liverpool fans for their bizarre chanting yesterday, so thank you!

I agree Alisson would definitely improve us drastically however honestly last several games since Karius has came into the side as official number 1 he's been excellent and if he keeps this form up I don't think we even need a keeper. I don't think he got enough credit yesterday for how important his outstanding save on Arnautovic was as if he hadn't of tipped that onto the bar we'd have gone down 1-0 and it could have changed the game drastically.

I personally think we need to focus on a securing a quality regista first, someone like Jorginho who can dictate play from deep, tackle well and play great through balls. I think a CAM/Winger to replace Coutinho is still definitely needed, my ideal would be Fekir. He would give us options in midfield, on the wing and as a false 9. He also tackles and recovers the ball almost as much as Firmino which for our system is exactly what we need from a player. Then for me it moves on to RCB and GK. If none of Lovren, Matip or Karius can prove themselves thoroughly over the next 3 months then I think we need to look at upgrading both those as well and selling one of the CB's alongside Mignolet. Alderweireld and Alisson would be my picks but obviously we're starting to get into the £200m+ region now for those 4 so whether FSG would fund that who knows. But hopefully they should be able to as we still have the Coutinho money according to Klopp and we could probably get £60m-£80m in player sales this summer so I don't see why not.
 
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OneFootball said:
But I never compared it! I think your issue with me was choice of words; not using disgusting instead of ‘wrong and not acceptable’ - I defined what is ‘disgusting’ to me in terms of what went on in our Europa League tie. That wasn’t a comparison to what happened to Evra yesterday and I dont know how you could possibly have interpreted to be.
And neither have I at any stage expressed any loyalty towards Suarez in regard to his racism towards Evra - I dont know where you’re getting this from. Anyway, I can see that your tone is in meltdown so best leave it at that.
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Not meltdown. Just disgust that's all.

Trikie said:
While I do totally agree that it was disgusting and embarrassing I think the term minority is being applied to Liverpool's fan base in general and not just those fecking idiots inside the stadium.
On another note what did you think of the match itself as I don't think you have mentioned that at any point.
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I switched off after the abuse Evra got. Couldn't stomach watching it as made me feel sick if I'm honest.

B20 said:
Isn't this a bit "the moslems need to clearly condemn the wackjobs committing terror because Moslems dunnit?"

The Suarez songs are well inappropriate. Even if Suarez didn't have racist intent, evra had every right to react and Liverpool fans need to realise he did nothing wrong.

The boos are neither here nor there. I am sure some of it came from the same place , and some of it from him being a united legend. Hernandez also got booed when he came on.
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No one is bothered about the boos. It's the suarez chants and lying bastard ones which crossed the line. They were repeat, loud and not a minority.

Classless.
 
Pelé as a Comedian said:
Nothing clear about it at all, but like most football fans you are quick enough to jump to whichever conclusion best appeals to you. A human trait that can also be readily seen in politics etc. Now lets be clear, Suarez said something racist to Evra, called him Negrito was it ? And then followed up with "I dont talk to blacks" ? Completely unacceptable, as was the clubs and some fans response. I'd like to point out though that Evra himself, if i remember correctly, said that he didnt think Suarez was racist per se in a report.

But see, theres not only the racist incident between Suarez and Evra but also the whole fallout, including for example Evra fist pumping exaggeratedly deliberately in front of Suarez after a win, the handshake fiascos etc. Theres simply a convoluted history between the two and by extension the fans. Tribalism goes a long way though and in a Them v Us situation, you can easily call booing Evra and chanting Suarez' name wrong, crass etc but throwing around "all scouse dippers are racist and Riise is racist" is just another example of said ill thought out tribalism. Break the cycle, rise above, to quote Rick Sanchez.
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Before any attempt is made to interpret Riise's intentions behind his message, you should first take into consideration his position among Liverpool's fanbase and fellow professionals. Being an ex-player of the club and fan favourite, his words tend to carry a large element of influence and power over his followers - particularly those of the idiotic variety, the type who will pounce on any opportunity to take a shot at United's players both past and present.

So with that said, what could he possibly hope to achieve from tweeting the words "make sure you give a certain player an afternoon he will never forget!" to a fanbase consisting of the type of person previously mentioned. There is no need to answer that because his intentions are irrelevant, what is infinitely more significant are the concequences of his actions - Inciting racial abuse and possibly instigating trouble on the terraces, not to mention accusing Patrice Evra of lying. I'm not really up on the laws or boundaries of social media but I can't help but wonder if Paddy has grounds for a lawsuit.

People like JAR should be disallowed access to Twitter, or any social media outlet where their vitriol can be exposed to all and sundry, after such a blatant abuse of power. At least until they learn to appreciate their position and use it appropriately.
 
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Pelé as a Comedian said:
Nothing clear about it at all, but like most football fans you are quick enough to jump to whichever conclusion best appeals to you. A human trait that can also be readily seen in politics etc. Now lets be clear, Suarez said something racist to Evra, called him Negrito was it ? And then followed up with "I dont talk to blacks" ? Completely unacceptable, as was the clubs and some fans response. I'd like to point out though that Evra himself, if i remember correctly, said that he didnt think Suarez was racist per se in a report.

But see, theres not only the racist incident between Suarez and Evra but also the whole fallout, including for example Evra fist pumping exaggeratedly deliberately in front of Suarez after a win, the handshake fiascos etc. Theres simply a convoluted history between the two and by extension the fans. Tribalism goes a long way though and in a Them v Us situation, you can easily call booing Evra and chanting Suarez' name wrong, crass etc but throwing around "all scouse dippers are racist and Riise is racist" is just another example of said ill thought out tribalism. Break the cycle, rise above, to quote Rick Sanchez.
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You've just shown your true colours.

Congratulations.
 
TheReligion said:
You've just shown your true colours.

Congratulations.
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That I have something add to this conversation instead of pointless vague innuendos ? I've already condemned Suarez actions and called the chanting and booing ill thought out, I just balk at the hysterical "Riise is a racist and condoning violence and the whole club and its supporters are racist" agenda on here. But by all means enjoy your self gratifying witch hunt.
 
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Pelé as a Comedian said:
Nothing clear about it at all, but like most football fans you are quick enough to jump to whichever conclusion best appeals to you. A human trait that can also be readily seen in politics etc. Now lets be clear, Suarez said something racist to Evra, called him Negrito was it ? And then followed up with "I dont talk to blacks" ? Completely unacceptable, as was the clubs and some fans response. Full disclosure I myself regret not condemning Suarez' actions initially and instead try and excuse and deflect them, prior to learning what exactly was said i'd like to add. Im susceptible to tribalism as much as anyone. I'd like to point out though that Evra himself, if i remember correctly, said that he didnt think Suarez was racist per se in a report.

But see, theres not only the racist incident between Suarez and Evra but also the whole fallout, including for example Evra fist pumping exaggeratedly deliberately in front of Suarez after a win, the handshake fiascos etc. Theres simply a convoluted history between the two and by extension the fans. Tribalism goes a long way though and in a Them v Us situation, you can easily call booing Evra and chanting Suarez' name wrong, crass etc (and rightly so) but throwing around "all scouse dippers are racist and Riise is racist" is just another example of said ill thought out tribalism. Break the cycle, rise above, to quote Rick Sanchez.
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:lol: All these years and still Liverpool fans change the word.

 
Idiots will be idiots regarding the chanting, but getting back to the game I was very impressed with the way we went about our business. Yesterdays game we looked a bit more efficient and business like as well as retaining our explosive attack. I was a bit concerned with the break as this always seem to hamper our momentum, but what a buy Robertson is turning out, how much did we pay for him?
 
Pelé as a Comedian said:
That I have something add to this conversation instead of pointless vague innuendos ? I've already condemned Suarez actions and called the chanting and booing ill thought out, I just balk at the hysterical "Riise is a racist and condoning violence and the whole club and its supporters are racist" agenda on here. But by all means enjoy your self gratifying witch hunt.
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You don't even have a sound understanding of what happened then still try to make a villain of Evra by saying he goaded Suarez at OT! Totally irrelevant so not sure why you mention it?

You'd be best to just accept the fans were yet AGAIN a disgrace
 
TheReligion said:
Some in this thread need to read and understand this it seems.
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And some in this thread need to move on from trying to make all Liverpool fans racists. I haven't seen a single Liverpool fan here, who has said, that Suarez didn't racially abuse Evra. And everyone here has dissociated from the chants from the crowd. Everyone has said, that the Riise tweet was stupid.
 
Halds said:
And some in this thread need to move on from trying to make all Liverpool fans racists. I haven't seen a single Liverpool fan here, who has said, that Suarez didn't racially abuse Evra. And everyone here has dissociated from the chants from the crowd. Everyone has said, that the Riise tweet was stupid.
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Always seems to be a BUT though from some..

It's sad really.
 
I don't know why it happens that always the victim is blamed in football. Shawcross broke ramsey into two pieces but it was him that got sympathy because Ramsey wouldn't accept his apology. And the stoke crowd boo Ramsey for having the temerity of getting his leg broken by one of their players.
 
Redphantom said:
Idiots will be idiots regarding the chanting, but getting back to the game I was very impressed with the way we went about our business. Yesterdays game we looked a bit more efficient and business like as well as retaining our explosive attack. I was a bit concerned with the break as this always seem to hamper our momentum, but what a buy Robertson is turning out, how much did we pay for him?
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10 million I think. In today's game that is one hell of a steal. Iam surprise Hull haven't called the bizzies and reported us for theft.
 
Costanza said:
This desire to tiptoe around using the word 'racist' does my head in. If you direct abuse at a player that called out racism, that is racist. It's not just 'inappropriate' or 'deluded' or whatever other euphemism people want to use - it's straight out racism, even if not in its intent then most certainly in its discriminatory impact on Evra and by virtue of the fact that it pretty directly gives support to the general structure of racism. Kind of like how if you believe the conspiracy that Jews run the world, you're being anti-semitic and not just an idiot.

You can be idiotic/deluded and racist at the same time. In fact, it's pretty common. Let's not minimise the very serious harm stuff like this does in an attempt to spare the sensibilities of football fans that would prefer not to think of themselves as racist.
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Believing someone has lied in order to get an opposing player banned is completely different to discriminating against somebody because of their race.

Many of the people yesterday will have had absolutely no racist tendencies and some would have been from ethnic minority backgrounds themselves. Is Glen Johnson racist because he wore the support Suarez shirt vs Stoke?
 
The booing was in poor taste and I'm quite embarrassed over it. We could have all just let sleeping dogs lie. @Rafateria hit the nail on the head with his previous post on the matter.
 
Halds said:
And some in this thread need to move on from trying to make all Liverpool fans racists. I haven't seen a single Liverpool fan here, who has said, that Suarez didn't racially abuse Evra. And everyone here has dissociated from the chants from the crowd. Everyone has said, that the Riise tweet was stupid.
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TheReligion said:
Always seems to be a BUT though from some..

It's sad really.
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Sorry TheReligon, I must come back to you. There is no BUT! What Halds has said summarises the sentiments expressed on these forums by most every Liverpool fan, yet you are continually trying to stir things you. Your posts with me contained many a sly dig at Liverpool with comments removed from the subject as well. I, like others didn’t go down to your level so please note. And all this by a person who was allegedly so upset by yesterdays events that you couldn’t watch anymore. That doesn’t stack up for me. Time to grow up and debate the good and the bad rationionally, like many other fans on here, and without your childish jibes.
 
Rafateria said:
How could you possibly miss where I said 'vile chanting ' ? Oh I know - it's because you jumped straight onto your keyboard and bashed away without actually reading the content properly.
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Then why do you try to downplay the vile chanting? Oh I know - because you refuse acknowledge that your whole club and a large portion of its fan base are guilty of protecting racist abuse and character assassination of a victim of said abuse. It wasn't just a small number of fans booing, that's my point. The vile chants were very loud. I could hear them watching the game on TV, the commentators at Anfield could hear them and so could lots of other people. That's not down to positioning of TV mikes.
 
Halds said:
And everyone here has dissociated from the chants from the crowd.
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This is good, and speaks to the quality of Liverpool support that frequent Redcafe. But I believe the club and even manager should categorically do the same; and publically. It's an important issue to address.
 
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