I'm shitting my britches for that one because we've lost Coutinho. Or something.
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
- Start date
I'm shitting my britches for that one because we've lost Coutinho. Or something.
Salah is our best player this season and Mane was our best player last season. We were fine without Coutinho last season and we’ve been fine without him this season too. That’s not saying that we’re better off without him, just that we’ve coped well so far. We’re still creating plenty of chances and scoring plenty of goals (which is the area Coutinho had the largest influence on) and using a one off bad day at the office like Swansea doesn’t change that.
Let’s say we finish 3rd on around 80 points having not had Coutinho for more than half a season (he had a ‘back injury’ early on) then wouldn’t it be right to assume that not having him at the start of the 18/19 season would have little relevance on how we do next year? Suarez was comfortably our best player in 13/14 and as soon as he left we struggled. Coutinho hasn’t played for us in two months and our results/performances haven’t been any worse than they were.
I don’t see what Coutinho has to do with a 4-1 becoming 4-3 very quickly against City either. Was Coutinho being on the pitch going to stop us conceding two goals? Regardless, beating City was a very good result.
We were relying on the likes of Ings, Solanke and Chamberlain even when we did have Coutinho, and none of them have anything to do with our largest issue which is the defensive side of our play. There were games where we’d have Firmino, Coutinho, Mane and Salah all playing and would still have an off day in front of goal. Seeing as you’ve used a few ifs in your post, what if Mane, Firmino and Salah all stay fit for the rest of the season and then we buy someone in the summer to replace Coutinho, who turns out to be very good? Doesn’t that make his departure less comparable with the likes of Suarez and Alonso? We were noticeably worse when those players left, but we haven’t been so far since Coutinho went.
1000 word limit for the reply, I know what you’re like.
Conceding 3 in one half against West Brom and getting knocked out of the FA Cup is even funnier now seeing how bad West Brom are 
.
Losers.
.Losers.
Salah is our best player this season and Mane was our best player last season. We were fine without Coutinho last season and we’ve been fine without him this season too. That’s not saying that we’re better off without him, just that we’ve coped well so far. We’re still creating plenty of chances and scoring plenty of goals (which is the area Coutinho had the largest influence on) and using a one off bad day at the office like Swansea doesn’t change that.
Let’s say we finish 3rd on around 80 points having not had Coutinho for more than half a season (he had a ‘back injury’ early on) then wouldn’t it be right to assume that not having him at the start of the 18/19 season would have little relevance on how we do next year? Suarez was comfortably our best player in 13/14 and as soon as he left we struggled. Coutinho hasn’t played for us in two months and our results/performances haven’t been any worse than they were.
I don’t see what Coutinho has to do with a 4-1 becoming 4-3 very quickly against City either. Was Coutinho being on the pitch going to stop us conceding two goals? Regardless, beating City was a very good result.
We were relying on the likes of Ings, Solanke and Chamberlain even when we did have Coutinho, and none of them have anything to do with our largest issue which is the defensive side of our play. There were games where we’d have Firmino, Coutinho, Mane and Salah all playing and would still have an off day in front of goal. Seeing as you’ve used a few ifs in your post, what if Mane, Firmino and Salah all stay fit for the rest of the season and then we buy someone in the summer to replace Coutinho, who turns out to be very good? Doesn’t that make his departure less comparable with the likes of Suarez and Alonso? We were noticeably worse when those players left, but we haven’t been so far since Coutinho went.
1000 word limit for the reply, I know what you’re like.
I understand full well that you're fine without him at the moment in terms of scoring and creating chances, I just find it incredibly odd that anyone would even bother trying to make out losing him was anything other than detrimental to your squad by hiding behind him not being the best player for this season and the last, to the point of completely ignoring two seasons where he undoubtedly was your best. I know a bad day at the office at Swansea doesn't change that because you can still score hatfuls when it clicks, but it's not like you've kicked on a gear since losing him, it's just been more of the same.
Coutinho doesn't really have much to do with the City game, I only brought it up because SoT was holding it up as some sort of post-Coutinho achievement. It would have been a very impressive victory had you held on for 4-1, but instead you almost capitulated and it ended 4-3, and the narrative of what remains an impressive victory went from "Liverpool dominate City" to "Liverpool and City play out 7 goal thriller". This was then tarnished further by you going on to lose to relegation scrapping Swansea a week later, and being knocked out of the FA Cup, at home, to relegation scrapping West Brom the week after that.
I'm not sure what you're getting at with the hypothetical finish bit. You've got a good front three without Coutinho that will have carried you through. I'll readily admit that Coutinho was not as vital for you as Suarez, because I personally have never felt him to be close to the caliber of player that Suarez was for you in 2013/14. That doesn't mean he wasn't one of your key players though. While there's always the "if" of your front three staying fully fit for a whole season, the reality is that it is very unlikely to happen, particularly not if you want to continue to compete in the league and CL. Something will have to give somewhere, or you'll find that they've been run into the ground two thirds of the way into the season.
I'm personally not convinced that you'll get on fine without him come next season because I can't see the three you have maintaining their current levels without attracting serious interest from Barca/Real/PSG/Bayern (delete as applicable), but that's if you don't really do anything about replacing him. If you bring in a comparable replacement, of course it'll hugely negate any impact of him leaving.
In reference to Suarez and Alonso, your performances dipped because there was no concrete plan to replace them. Benitez pissed off Alonso in an attempt to sign Barry, with you ending up with perma-crock Aquilani after he left. I'd also say you dropped off a cliff in 09/10 because there was a huge hangover from the season before where you'd given it your all to stop United winning their 18th, and ultimately fallen short. When Suarez left you tried to attract Sanchez (why you didn't just steadfastly refuse unless Sanchez was part of the deal I'll never know), and ended up scattergunning the market, leaving you with Balotelli as a wildcard signing. Should you bring in a proper replacement, it'll be a completely different scenario to the departures of the other two, because they weren't properly replaced.
As it is, we're not actually that far removed from him leaving, so I think we're all best leaving any real evaluations of the impacts of his departure until at least the end of the season because otherwise we end up talking in ifs and buts.
Losing a player of Coutinho's calibre would be tough on any team and I do miss the little magician and his ability to conjure up moments of magic from nowhere.
I believe that without Coutinho in the side, we actually have a bit more balance. In our last 5 matches, we've scored 16 goals and have conceded just 3. Southampton away, Porto away and Spurs at home were all matches where a lot of people expected us to struggle. Predictably Spurs was the toughest match out of those 5 and a draw was a fair result but we're conceeding far less goals now which is encouraging going forward.
We need someone to replace Coutinho but I think that Klopp has found a way to get the best out of the players at his disposal and we're starting to see the rewards. OT is going to be tough next week and I'd rather have had Coutinho than not but we've still got some great players that will cause problems for anyone.
I believe that without Coutinho in the side, we actually have a bit more balance. In our last 5 matches, we've scored 16 goals and have conceded just 3. Southampton away, Porto away and Spurs at home were all matches where a lot of people expected us to struggle. Predictably Spurs was the toughest match out of those 5 and a draw was a fair result but we're conceeding far less goals now which is encouraging going forward.
We need someone to replace Coutinho but I think that Klopp has found a way to get the best out of the players at his disposal and we're starting to see the rewards. OT is going to be tough next week and I'd rather have had Coutinho than not but we've still got some great players that will cause problems for anyone.
I'm shitting my britches for that one because we've lost Coutinho. Or something.
The fact you shit yourself doesn't surprise me.
Conceding 3 in one half against West Brom and getting knocked out of the FA Cup is even funnier now seeing how bad West Brom are
Losers.
Bristol City ?
That was a chin sticking out asking for it. If he gets back with but you were at home then Iam fecked.
How far did Liverpool get in the EFL Cup
That’s the only bit of silver you’ve won in the last 10 years sit down.
That’s the only bit of silver you’ve won in the last 10 years sit down.
It is a huge game indeed. The fact that we have reigned you right is makes it even huger.
And people think they're the 2nd best team in the league. The truth is they aren't any closer to winning trophies now than when Klopp arrived. And some think they're the closest to Man City.Conceding 3 in one half against West Brom and getting knocked out of the FA Cup is even funnier now seeing how bad West Brom are
Losers.
It'll be interesting to see how we approach it. I think we were set up to attack against you last season, we just played really badly and I was happy to salavage a point in the end.
Despite a lot of criticism our big game record isn't that bad this season, and under Jose it's been pretty good at home. It's only really against City that we've got a bad record.
When City get relegated for doping, match fixing, human rights abuses and hypocrisy then Liverpool will be the second best team in the league
Shite banter aside, Liverpool have been improving, I think you'd have to be a bit blinkered not to recognise that. Interestingly the departure of Coutinho hasn't hampered them as much as i would have thought. Key for Liverpool for medium- and long-term success will be to hold onto their best players, something they've struggled with in recent years.When City get relegated for doping, match fixing, human rights abuses and hypocrisy then Liverpool will be the second best team in the league
That's the thing with Liverpool. They've had some very good players over the years that if you'd put them in a combined 11 they'd probably walk the league. For instance imagine a front line of Salah, Coutinho, Sterling, Suarez. The problem is that they never actually add to the squad they only replace who's left which leaves them in the same position. Close but not close enough. Until that policy changes and players don't see Liverpool as a stepping stone to bigger things I won't consider them as serious contenders. Salah will probably be the next one to leave and they'll find another star before claiming they're ready to win the league. It's a never ending cycle.
Another quality post from Haram.Conceding 3 in one half against West Brom and getting knocked out of the FA Cup is even funnier now seeing how bad West Brom are
Losers.
Conceding 3 in one half against West Brom and getting knocked out of the FA Cup is even funnier now seeing how bad West Brom are
Losers.
When you read post like that, it actually makes you wonder which is lower; the age or the IQ? Sadly we have some like that too on LFC forums but it does beg the question.
You should have made it 500 !1000 word limit for the reply, I know what you’re like.
One thing I mentioned at the time but United fans didn't want to accept, is that Coutinho's departure does indeed strengthen us defensively (clearly by far his weakest contribution to the team) and that the way we defend, often with pressing from the front, means that obviously the players that have taken up Coutinho's preferred position at the head of the MF; Milner, Ox and Wijnaldum, are far more active and effective in that position.
This obviously isn't said just to mitigate his departure (though it's nice for Liverpool fans to realise there is some benefit and difficult for United fans to acknowledge there may be some truth in that), it's blatantly clear. One could say we conceded 3 against City, one could also suppose that we could have lost that match conceding more with less defensive minded MFers.
Although we do lose out on rotational options it's also lucky that is something that Klopp had been the #1 exponent of in the PL for the 2017/18 season up until Coutinho's departure) and add in the two breaks in Dubai and Spain which have given our players ample rest and hopefully that should help them stay fit and productive for the rest of the season. No denying we need far more quality strength in depth - but it's coming.
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Haha - I'll let you be the judge of that
Agree with pretty much all of that though I cant but laugh at any fan proclaiming title winning teams in advance.
To hold onto to good players a manager must put good players beside them (only that Gerrard was local, he’d have been off too) I dont blame players for that, its really a reflection of the Clubs policies and maybe even ambition.
Good players wont wait around for Clubs to build teams over 3 or so years particularly when they themselves are in their prime. I think if Liverpool are to hold onto Salah etc., Klopp will need to invest heavily in the summer and bring in the quality players needed to finish building his team.
they look like the 2nd best team to me, atm
unless you think it's us because we are 'solid' or your username is Glastonspur
sure LFC have some soppy losses, but can also score 3 game-winning goals in a half without too much fuss
I would think they have every chance of 2nd in the EPL given the stodge-tasticness of Utd
unless you think it's us because we are 'solid' or your username is Glastonspur
sure LFC have some soppy losses, but can also score 3 game-winning goals in a half without too much fuss
I would think they have every chance of 2nd in the EPL given the stodge-tasticness of Utd
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Agreed, despite current league position I think they are the 2nd best team. If we drew them in the CL, they'd be favourites to progress. I can just imagine us getting tonked at Anfield.
Based on the tonking we got at Anfield this season?
Yes. A 0-0 tonking
I'm very interested to see how Mourinho plays it tactically. I can't imagine he'll have United sit back as much, surely OT wouldn't take that, and if United open up a bit that will give our front 3 more space in behind. I might regret saying it but at the moment I can't wait for the game at OT.
Conceding 3 in one half against West Brom and getting knocked out of the FA Cup is even funnier now seeing how bad West Brom are
Losers.
We'd be a tough draw for them in the CL simply because we wouldn't come out to attack & leave space behind. Like City did. Mourinho goes for another Anfield 0-0. And looks to nick a hard fought win at OT.
I expect the league game to be similar as well. Like the 1-0 win over Spurs earlier in the season.
Be interesting to see if Jose does anything special for Salah (like Hazard last Sunday.)
I expect the league game to be similar as well. Like the 1-0 win over Spurs earlier in the season.
Be interesting to see if Jose does anything special for Salah (like Hazard last Sunday.)
Normally I’d agree Raf’, but thinking about it I wonder if, if they beat us, would they care that much about the manner? You know what this one is like, it’s just the result really. They do have the onus on them being at home tho’ so, who knows?Yes. A 0-0 tonking
I'm very interested to see how Mourinho plays it tactically. I can't imagine he'll have United sit back as much, surely OT wouldn't take that, and if United open up a bit that will give our front 3 more space in behind. I might regret saying it but at the moment I can't wait for the game at OT.
I’m actually looking forward to it for once, though I hope that’s not a bad thing, ‘pride comes before..’ etc.
It’s hard not to underestimate them sometimes, they’re often painful to watch but then you look at their record, especially at home, and it’s impressive. They have an ability to really turn it on for 20-30 mins (Arsenal, Chelsea) and press with quick, vertical passes. If I was a neutral this would be the match to watch.....then again, we often think that. A scrappy one-nil to us will do me (not that we ever win one nil) with Gini’s first away goal.
Good. Negativity about Liverpool relaxes me.
The last time Liverpool beat us at old Trafford was 4 years ago when we were a shambles under Moyes. The time before that, it was in our title winning 2009 season (the Torres show I believe). So it's about twice in over 15 years.
We are a good team defensively and when it comes together, we can be devastating in attack (although that has been too infrequent this season). And we are much better at Old Trafford than away from home. So I don't think it will be an easy match for Liverpool to be honest.
We are a good team defensively and when it comes together, we can be devastating in attack (although that has been too infrequent this season). And we are much better at Old Trafford than away from home. So I don't think it will be an easy match for Liverpool to be honest.
This is what i think too, however when i get optimistic about United, it comes back to bite me quite hard. Hoping Liverpool are annihilated at Old Trafford
Most certainly wont be an easy match for Liverpool and anyone who considers it so is bereft of sense. I’d happily take a point now if on offer. I think if we are not at 100% and United really went at us, we would be in trouble.
Can't disagree with any of that. However when we did win it was with a superb attack (2009 - Torres & 2014 - Suarez) .... and that's what we have again with top strikers in Salah and Firmino, and arguably Mane too, we've not managed a win recently without having a top striker.
Since and including that 2014 result we have a 1-2-2 record (inc. the EL) at OT, so maybe odds slightly in our favour of not losing ? Of course there's been numerous personnel changes over that period.
I also take comfort in the United fans debate over United's 'goals conceded' stat and how it's heavily weighted in their favour simply because of De Gea (and not because the defence concedes less attempts on target). Maybe he'll take the day off for once.
And although we concede more than we should we are actually only second to City (for the Top 5 European top leagues) for shots conceded in the league this season (we just concede a higher percentage of those shots on target). Whatever, I don't expect a high scoring match, this isn't going to be like City or Arsenal.
I agree. I will say that the shots conceded stat is a bit misleading. DDG is world class, but if you look at many shots over the course of the season, a good proportion are no-hopers around and outside of the 18 yard box that do not trouble DDG (and frankly wouldn't trouble Mignolet). That's because United crowd their own box and Matic does a good job at closing 2nd, 3rd and 4th attackers down, leaving them limited time and space. That said, Liverpool could very well exploit individual CB errors. Our CBs are prone to costly errors so that could be a decider in the match.
I think that Klopp and Mou would be satisfied with a draw. Neither would admit it, but a draw would serve both teams. This must be Liverpool's toughest remaining fixture, and it is United's second toughest remaining (City away would be the toughest left on our schedule).
Liverpools record at Old Trafford is pretty awful, but we still get Utd fans every season who panic and seem to think liverpool always raise their game and do well here.
It's weird. I'm fully aware of how tough a game it'll be but some people get so nervous they make things up.
It's weird. I'm fully aware of how tough a game it'll be but some people get so nervous they make things up.
Won one, Lost two and Drawn two of the last five games, that's Liverpool's record. Considering it's OT I don't think not losing 60% of those games is that awful at all. Since there are now two new managers, and mostly new players, since 2014 then anything before that is pretty irrelevant as far as these lot go. A draw would be a very good result for both teams.
2016/17: 1-1. Pretty even stats.
2015/16 Europa: 1-1. Pretty even stats, United with better possession and shots but Liverpool with 4 more shots on target.
2015/16 league: 1-0 United. Liverpool were the better team: 4 shots on target to United's 1 (which was scored), 19 shots on goal to United's 7. As always De Gea was excellent and saved your bacon.
2014/15: 3-0 United (somehow). Again Liverpool were the better team on the day, 9 shots on target to United's 6, 19 shots on goal to United's 11. Possibly one of the best keeping performances I've personally witnessed. The save De Gea made on Balotelli is one of the most unbelievable saves I've ever witnessed live.
Beyond that I don't really think there's much point in taking them into account as we both have different managers and largely different players. Pretty sure Henderson is the only player left in our first team who was in the 2013/14 squad (other than Mignolet, Sturridge and Flanagan who don't play).
But anyway, as you can our record isn't great but our performances always seem to be pretty good, just there's this same player who makes the difference every god darn time. De Gea really seems to love the Liverpool vs United fixtures, I can't honestly think of a game against us in the last 8 meetings he hasn't been world class.
Nope, that was the game at Anfield.
We beat you 3-1 at Old Trafford that season and deservedly so too. First half was dull but Utd were by far the better side in the 2nd half.
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Hi all, just wanted to say ‘Hello’ and introduce myself. My name is James (duh’), I am a Liverpool supporter. Yes, another one I’m afraid
. I’m a historian by trade, that and being a Liverpool fan are NOT connected (honest!). I have a BA in social and political history, and an MA in the study of Genocide throughout history (not much fun but an amazing subject). I am hoping to begin my PhD in September this year, on the effect of Russian Communism and Stalin in particular, on the socialist parties of Western Europe in the immediate post war era.
I have been reading ‘the caf’ for the last couple of years. It is the only forum I like, not only because of the wide and disparate variety of contributors, but also because of the general warmth, wit, and ‘feel’ of the place.
Anyway, Best Wishes,
James.
Oh, and I hate Man United....but I very much respect them as a Great club, who earned their place amongst the elite. I truly believe that.
Glory glory Man United (not added by a mod, swear)
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