Thanks, i haven't watched all Liverpool games last season, so i wasn't sure.
Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.
- Thread starter Parry Gallister
- Start date
Its all about finishing. Apart from Coutinho's one great chance to score the first goal, which there's no point discussing any further, he had another chance similar to the position Rose scored from. Sure he scored two against Arsenal, one of them a tap in which I still can't believe he put away more than his freekick. But Coutinho does not finish chances, simple as that. And as a result we will continue dropping points. This wouldn't be a problem if Lallana contributed from the other side but he is even worse in terms of finishing (again Arsenal anomoly goal aside, I'm still scratching my head about how he put that away too).
Basically we're the world's best looking impotent male supermodel. And without Mane our looks wane too.
Nicely put.
It's pretty obvious that Klopp has deliberately limited his attacking instincts from CM for the sake of the team. He had a good game today, much of his work the important, but unrecognised, fetching and carrying. However he did well and when you consider that most thought our midfield would be overrun and in fact that was turned on its head with Hendo & Wij responsible for setting plenty of our many attacks in motion, as well as how impotent Alli & Erikson looked, then how well he and Hendo did, both in defence & attack, becomes clearer.
A tad hyperbolic there methinks. LB - I agree (if we don't get someone in this window). Sturridge - Klopp had no alternative but to establish his authority after Studge's mid-week whine (he needs to cut that out and get his head down - if not then arrivederci). With Can out it makes it more difficult to set up our midfield properly but I did think that Stewart (a real DM) could start, that said Henderson and Wijnaldum ran the midfield for 60 mins of the game, away at Spurs, so I'd take a 2:1 ratio against a Top 6 team all day every day. Defence we all know is missing Karius (not that Mignolet has played poorly so far this season, he's been blameless for the goals to date) and Matip made a highly satisfactory start to his Liverpool career, so the defence has been improved, just need that LB slot sorting (though Milner was MoM yesterday) !Looks like you're set for another 6th place finish because of Klopp's stubbornness. Refusal to sign a left back, relegating Sturridge to 3rd choice striker, persisting with a midfield duo of Wijnaldum & Henderson& of course his inability to improve the defence.
Exactly. We started with 3 away games on the bounce, including a win and draw from away games at Arsenal and Spurs - I think fans of any team in the PL would take that. The Burnley game was a bit of an aberration because if that match was played 100 times we'd probably win it 9/10 with 81% possession and Burnley just 3 shots all match, we need to see if this inability to break down teams parking the bus becomes commonplace before I start claiming it's a trend. We've had key players out and yet have still played some great football.
Clearly we have the toughest start of any team to the PL season but if we are within 6-7 points of the top after 5 games (H Leicester and A Chelsea to come) then we can look forward with some hope of that Top 4 slot, especially since our run-in at the end of the season is the easiest, when hopefully we'll still be relatively fresh and those around us tiring.
I thought Mane was walking a tightrope there. He has previous too, he's a little rash/over-eager and maybe it's his pace that actually gets him into those situations !
We really should have won it, bar Rose's goal (since nobody has mentioned it I should point out that Rose has admitted he mishit that shot, slicing it badly off his shin. It was just Sod's Law that it went in at the near post) Spurs didn't have a real chance in the match other than Erikson's half chance and Alderweirald's header. On the other hand Coutinho's miss, penalty on Matip not given (and before anyone mentions it, no Janssen running into Matip wasn't even a decent shout), Matip's header against the bar, Lallana's disallowed goal ... we had enough chances to win comfortably. Before KO I'd have taken a point if offered though.
Origi only had 22 mins and hardly saw anything of the ball so I wouldn't really put it down as a bad game per se, just ineffective since he was hardly involved. Gomez is due back in about a month I think (last time I checked on Physio)... though it will surely be another 2-3 before he can get back up to speed after a whole year out, that's assuming he ever does (fingers crossed for the lad).
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I thought Sturridge asked to leave. That's three of your top talents that have wanted out.
First I've heard if so but if you are not being played then it's understandable, I doubt there will be many tears, pointless dig though. You can hardly blame Torres or Suarez all things considered.
I wasn't digging. It was a question. My scouse mate said he wants out.
And I didn't mean Torres I was talking about the two and Sterling.
And I didn't mean Torres I was talking about the two and Sterling.
I think Sturridge will ask to leave in the due future. Looks like the relationship b/w him and Klopp is gone. Will be quite pleased if that happens.
Well it's an easy assumption to come to, however it doesn't mean it's true, just fan speculation.
Sturridge isn't a Klopp type player. He's also not the same player as pre-injuries having lost that yard of pace. That said he is a cracking striker and would start most games if I was selecting the team. However how can you doubt Klopp when the team play as they have against Arsenal and Spurs away ? Sturridge needs to do more playing and less bitching to earn his place in Klopp's eyes. I can see him gone within the year though (with a more 'energetic' striker inbound).
Sensible responses Rafa. Just one disagreement. Two draws in the next two games ( par for us ) would see us likely 9 points behind two of the three contenders. (One of City United has to drop points in the next game.) We know how relentless and consistent Mourinho and Pep are. Anything might happen, of course, but realisitically we are left fighting for fourth with Arsenal and probably Tottenham. Miss out on that spot and we have the same problems in terms of recruitment. Can't get into the CL because we don't have enough of the requisite quality, can't attract the requisite quality because they want to be playing in the CL.
Klopp has been as good as his reputation in finding gems for nothing.I have confidence that Karius, Matip and Grujic will fall into that bracket. Mane might be the best signing all the Premier clubs make. Arsenal are a huge obstacle for us, they have at least as much ability and a ridiculously impressive record in qualifying.
I believe we have a chance to do it, but an objective view doesn't suggest it's likely.
Klopp has been as good as his reputation in finding gems for nothing.I have confidence that Karius, Matip and Grujic will fall into that bracket. Mane might be the best signing all the Premier clubs make. Arsenal are a huge obstacle for us, they have at least as much ability and a ridiculously impressive record in qualifying.
I believe we have a chance to do it, but an objective view doesn't suggest it's likely.
He's pretty clued in. KM seems quite happy with it too as seen above .
Are you fine with it? It seems like you're offloading your most talented players (Sturbridge is injury prone though so no matter how talented if he's not playing it doesn't really matter)
I'm not being a smart are I'm asking for real
Are you fine with it? It seems like you're offloading your most talented players (Sturbridge is injury prone though so no matter how talented if he's not playing it doesn't really matter)
I'm not being a smart are I'm asking for real
Well we didn't really have any choice with Suarez and Sterling. Sturridge is going nowhere in this window so will have to wait and see.
I have said this countless times on here (mostly to people who didn't seem to understand or get it)....so it's not aimed at you
but we have sold 11 players so far this window, and released a lot more.So overall there is a re-building work in progress that will take time for Klopp to get a squad he is happy with.
Well we didn't really have any choice with Suarez and Sterling. Sturridge is going nowhere in this window so will have to wait and see.
I have said this countless times on here (mostly to people who didn't seem to understand or get it)....so it's not aimed at you
So overall there is a re-building work in progress that will take time for Klopp to get a squad he is happy with.
We have too. We just can attract the best players.
Honest do you feel you've slipped down to the second level.
Slipped was not a poke
Opinion was initially split on Sterling and it is on Sturridge too. Of course you want to hold on to your best players but that doesn't always happen and it's not always for the worst (see Keegan - Dalglish or Torres - Suarez). However no team can bank on that happening of course. If Sturridge doesn't fit the system and continues to display discontent then it's better for all if he moves on. I'd say it's all on him at the moment, improve his attitude and effort and he'll play, continue to be a malcontent and it's offski.
It would have been an awful lot quicker to edit 'slipped' for 'dropped' than write a sentence explaining it wasn't intended as a pun. Which of course it was
Spending wise nobody is on the same level as City, United and Chelsea at the moment. We are probably not on their level on the pitch either.
That said if we had chuffin beat Burnley we would be better placed. Arsenal, Tottenham, Burnley all away, followed by Leicester at home and Chelsea away = not an easy start.
Once Klopp has cleared out the players he doesn't want and can be in a situation of making a small number of additions in the next summer window the squad should be in better place - if we can attract the right players.
Daglish, Torres and Suarez beat the shit out of Sturbridge. Those three were the best players in the league arguably. Sturridge isn't even close to those guys.
You've spent quite a bit.
But you'll improve because 3 away games is a shit way to start a season
You've spent quite a bit.
But you'll improve because 3 away games is a shit way to start a season
The previous managers have spent a lot, not always on quality - Klopp's 'net spend' in this window so far is pretty much zero.
Well done for completely and utterly missing the point.
It would have been an awful lot quicker to edit 'slipped' for 'dropped' than write a sentence explaining it wasn't intended as a pun. Which of course it was
It really wasn't. But excuse me if I giggle
You're welcome. I'm trying to ask a legitimate question. But your backs up. I'll talk to Johnny Boy as he seems to understand I'm being serious and not trying to pick.
That's what my friend said. He's very bullish but he said that you didn't buy well. Of course he gave shit about about Pogba but he said he wished you'd have got him. He thinks ING should go up top.
Not sure we haven't bought well. Karius hasn't played yet, Matip has just played the one league game and looked good (not bad for a free transfer), Mane is going to be very good for us, Wijnaldum needs time to settle I guess (hard to judge him yet), young Grujic looks a real prospect for the future, Klavan is a back up centre half.
Obviously as it stands no new left back (he seems to think Milner/Moreno is sufficient), and no defensive midfielder (I think he wants Can to play there when fit). We also for me lack a quality CM who can dictate the course of the play but...Henderson and Wijnaldum pretty much controlled 70 mins or so against Tottenham on saturday. Guess will see how we go and what Klopp does.
MANE was never in doubt.
The issue for me is that undoubtedly he wants Can as our most defensive CM (Klopp has said he doesn't play with a DM per se) but if that's the case why not start Stewart if Can was missing ? And if he's not going to use Stewart (who was just fine in pre-season and when he came on as a sub previously) then why not buy a more defence-minded CM this window ? I know he wanted Dahoud but if he doesn't have the confidence to use Stewart we need someone else.
and reply to @Rafateria post immediately prev to Ruffs, Raf & Ruff,
(sorry)I thought the Janssen-Matip 'coming together' was more of a pen than the ball not in play at the corner was at the other end (altho you do have to factor in my obvious bias)
Janssen wasn't reaching the ball but it was at least 'live' while Matip had hold of him. Both half shouts really, I wouldn't want to see one given & not the other, I don't think that's right.
As for par & falling behind. Win the Leics home game, which I think you will, anything from Chelsea is obvs a bonus & 3pts or so will drift back over the course of a few easier fixtures (theoretically at any rate) while the others play each other like Utd/City - isn't there a long run of games without (or 1 in quite a lot) LFC meeting the 'top top' opposition.
It is still a pesky 3pts gone away at Burnley (bit diggish there,
) though. 10pts first 5 games = very good, can still be done!!)What you just said doesn't fill Klopp's Dortmund. He might have showing else in mind and he's a really good manager. I'm gonna say not quite up to Mourinho or Pep but you'll find a lot that say he's at least as good.
I think you're squad is slightly unbalanced. I think ours is top heavy.
Liverpool 5th. That's not a slight it's a misfire in the market. Better players let go and weaker players in.
Agreed - I think Stewart deserves a chance myself.
Matip reminds me of Rio, with stature and the way he's comfortable with the ball. Hope he's nowehere near Rio level
An interesting diagram showing distribution during the match (sorry this only shows thru 72 mins - don't know why there isn't a 90 mins one, that I can find anyway).
Note : 4 or more passes are required for a line to appear, so less than that and it wasn't enough to trigger a line.
Note : 4 or more passes are required for a line to appear, so less than that and it wasn't enough to trigger a line.
Matip reminds me of Rio, with stature and the way he's comfortable with the ball. Hope he's nowehere near Rio level
To put it this way - I think you can safely relax.
29 AUGUST 2016 • 10:39AM
The presence of an extremely talented individual player often seems to be a cause of pain as much as serenity for managers.
When there is a gulf in class between a footballer and his team-mates, there is an inevitable potential for tension.
Every individual match-winning performance becomes the focus of attention; press conferences become single issue events lavishing praise on the player; injuries are perceived as catastrophic and recoveries a source of salvation.
If those around the particular player aren’t contributing so much, transfer hype shadows him: “How long can he put up with the mediocrity around him?”
And if the player is fit and for some reason not selected, there is an incandescence expressed on his behalf. The constant ‘me parties’ can be tedious.
Every manager seeks to create a team not only complementary to his star performer’s ability, but one in which he is a contributor rather than the focal point. Only then do you have a side capable of being successful.
Over the past 20 years, one of Liverpool’s many problems is they’ve too often had teams possessing a supreme individual talent who too often outshone the rest.
For a while it was Steve McManaman, then Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Steven Gerrard, Luis Suárez and, for a brief period most recently, Daniel Sturridge.
Whether it was Gérard Houllier, Rafa Benítez or Brendan Rodgers, they knew that their first task in constructing a side capable of challenging was to stop relying so much on a star man. It meant their prize asset would have to be compromised - sometimes a little, occasionally a lot (once or twice too much). Then everyone else would look better.
Each manager had a bit of success. Houllier’s 2001 treble side did not rely on Owen, despite him winning the Ballon d’Or that season. Houllier was able to rotate the England striker (he did not start the League Cup final that season), protecting his hamstrings to get more from him. Supporters who look fondly at that era celebrate Sami Hyypia, Didi Hamann, Jamie Carragher and Gary McAllister.
Benítez won the Champions League and FA Cup in 2005 and 2006 largely because of Gerrard, but the most consistent Premier League performance came in 2009 because of the Carragher/Hyypia defensive pairing and a midfield including Javier Mascherano and Xabi Alonso, allied to the striking presence of Fernando Torres.
Many still argue Rodgers’ near miss in pursuit of the title was all about Suárez, but in the Uruguayan’s first two seasons Liverpool finished 8th and 7th. It was when Rodgers tweaked the formation and Sturridge was alongside him, allied to the emergence of Raheem Sterling, that one of the most dynamic strikeforces in the country was created. Suarez played much of the title bid season in a wide-attacking role in order to accommodate Sturridge. Compromise worked.
The difference for Jürgen Klopp when compared with Houllier inheriting Owen, Benítez Gerrard and Rodgers Suárez, is Liverpool’s best player was injured when he arrived. By then, of course, we were delivering our weekly Sturridge dispatches. They’ve barely stopped since.
It was the worst of both worlds for Klopp last October. Not only was every press conference dominated by questions about the contribution and fitness of Sturridge, he was unable to select him. Although it seems to irk the England striker even to mention this statement of fact - as though it is an act of the most intolerable cruelty – his appearance record was appalling.
It would appear many think it was Klopp’s duty to sit around thinking everything will be fine once Sturridge returned (just as Rodgers did in his final six months). Never mind forward planning, Klopp had to indulge the idea of building a team that would be complete once his fully-fit goalscorer slotted into a central forward role.
Evidently, Klopp is rather more astute. The 'we should build a team around Sturridge' ship sailed into the distance long ago
Indeed, many of those taking the 'why isn’t Sturridge starting exam?' at Tottenham last Saturday demonstrated they have not done their revision. How swiftly they've forgotten Klopp's first fixture as Liverpool manager - at White Hart Lane - when Sturridge travelled to North London but said he could not play on the eve of the game. Let me assure you there were plenty of 'death stares' around Merseyside when that news filtered out before kick-off, too.
Since then, Sturridge’s injuries appear to have taken some pace out of his legs. There was a moment in the second half of the Europa League final, and at Burnley last weekend, when Sturridge was sent beyond a defence but did not have the capacity to make a sprint. It was worrying. It may be mental rather than physical – understandable caution perhaps – and hopefully not beyond remedy. Nevertheless, Klopp is correct to conclude the time is long overdue for the player to adapt to the system rather than persist with the idea the system and everyone else must adapt to the player.
The landscape has changed for the better at Liverpool because of this. On the basis of his first three games, it won’t just be questions about Sturridge Klopp is fending off this season. Sadio Mané, playing the ‘wide striker’ role to perfection, could become the subject of our obsession. Klopp won’t want that either as, like those before him, he recognises only a multi-faceted team can be successful.
Sturridge can be as frustrated as he likes. He can complain as often as he wants. Those who want him in the side - in his position of choice - can make as many appeals on his behalf as they wish in the forlorn hope anyone who matters at Liverpool cares what they think.
History at Anfield shows the best way for Sturridge to win medals with Liverpool is to realise no team of Klopp’s will rely on his selection, or any single player. It’s a message he must also have heard when he was at Chelsea and Manchester City.
Twelve months ago Sturridge was the absentee whose return every Liverpool fan, coach and board member craved. His absence was debilitating to himself and the club. Now he is a fit, he is one of numerous striking ‘options’. He'll still play. He'll still play a lot. Liverpool have invested a lot of time and money waiting for him to be available again. The least he can do is invest a little time and patience in the Liverpool manager to use him as and when appropriate.
The questions may still be all about Sturridge, but the destiny of the team is not.
As this transfer window comes to a close, that it is one of the surest signs of healthy progress at Anfield.
The presence of an extremely talented individual player often seems to be a cause of pain as much as serenity for managers.
When there is a gulf in class between a footballer and his team-mates, there is an inevitable potential for tension.
Every individual match-winning performance becomes the focus of attention; press conferences become single issue events lavishing praise on the player; injuries are perceived as catastrophic and recoveries a source of salvation.
If those around the particular player aren’t contributing so much, transfer hype shadows him: “How long can he put up with the mediocrity around him?”
And if the player is fit and for some reason not selected, there is an incandescence expressed on his behalf. The constant ‘me parties’ can be tedious.
Every manager seeks to create a team not only complementary to his star performer’s ability, but one in which he is a contributor rather than the focal point. Only then do you have a side capable of being successful.
Over the past 20 years, one of Liverpool’s many problems is they’ve too often had teams possessing a supreme individual talent who too often outshone the rest.
For a while it was Steve McManaman, then Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Steven Gerrard, Luis Suárez and, for a brief period most recently, Daniel Sturridge.
Whether it was Gérard Houllier, Rafa Benítez or Brendan Rodgers, they knew that their first task in constructing a side capable of challenging was to stop relying so much on a star man. It meant their prize asset would have to be compromised - sometimes a little, occasionally a lot (once or twice too much). Then everyone else would look better.
Each manager had a bit of success. Houllier’s 2001 treble side did not rely on Owen, despite him winning the Ballon d’Or that season. Houllier was able to rotate the England striker (he did not start the League Cup final that season), protecting his hamstrings to get more from him. Supporters who look fondly at that era celebrate Sami Hyypia, Didi Hamann, Jamie Carragher and Gary McAllister.
Benítez won the Champions League and FA Cup in 2005 and 2006 largely because of Gerrard, but the most consistent Premier League performance came in 2009 because of the Carragher/Hyypia defensive pairing and a midfield including Javier Mascherano and Xabi Alonso, allied to the striking presence of Fernando Torres.
Many still argue Rodgers’ near miss in pursuit of the title was all about Suárez, but in the Uruguayan’s first two seasons Liverpool finished 8th and 7th. It was when Rodgers tweaked the formation and Sturridge was alongside him, allied to the emergence of Raheem Sterling, that one of the most dynamic strikeforces in the country was created. Suarez played much of the title bid season in a wide-attacking role in order to accommodate Sturridge. Compromise worked.
The difference for Jürgen Klopp when compared with Houllier inheriting Owen, Benítez Gerrard and Rodgers Suárez, is Liverpool’s best player was injured when he arrived. By then, of course, we were delivering our weekly Sturridge dispatches. They’ve barely stopped since.
It was the worst of both worlds for Klopp last October. Not only was every press conference dominated by questions about the contribution and fitness of Sturridge, he was unable to select him. Although it seems to irk the England striker even to mention this statement of fact - as though it is an act of the most intolerable cruelty – his appearance record was appalling.
It would appear many think it was Klopp’s duty to sit around thinking everything will be fine once Sturridge returned (just as Rodgers did in his final six months). Never mind forward planning, Klopp had to indulge the idea of building a team that would be complete once his fully-fit goalscorer slotted into a central forward role.
Evidently, Klopp is rather more astute. The 'we should build a team around Sturridge' ship sailed into the distance long ago
Indeed, many of those taking the 'why isn’t Sturridge starting exam?' at Tottenham last Saturday demonstrated they have not done their revision. How swiftly they've forgotten Klopp's first fixture as Liverpool manager - at White Hart Lane - when Sturridge travelled to North London but said he could not play on the eve of the game. Let me assure you there were plenty of 'death stares' around Merseyside when that news filtered out before kick-off, too.
Since then, Sturridge’s injuries appear to have taken some pace out of his legs. There was a moment in the second half of the Europa League final, and at Burnley last weekend, when Sturridge was sent beyond a defence but did not have the capacity to make a sprint. It was worrying. It may be mental rather than physical – understandable caution perhaps – and hopefully not beyond remedy. Nevertheless, Klopp is correct to conclude the time is long overdue for the player to adapt to the system rather than persist with the idea the system and everyone else must adapt to the player.
The landscape has changed for the better at Liverpool because of this. On the basis of his first three games, it won’t just be questions about Sturridge Klopp is fending off this season. Sadio Mané, playing the ‘wide striker’ role to perfection, could become the subject of our obsession. Klopp won’t want that either as, like those before him, he recognises only a multi-faceted team can be successful.
Sturridge can be as frustrated as he likes. He can complain as often as he wants. Those who want him in the side - in his position of choice - can make as many appeals on his behalf as they wish in the forlorn hope anyone who matters at Liverpool cares what they think.
History at Anfield shows the best way for Sturridge to win medals with Liverpool is to realise no team of Klopp’s will rely on his selection, or any single player. It’s a message he must also have heard when he was at Chelsea and Manchester City.
Twelve months ago Sturridge was the absentee whose return every Liverpool fan, coach and board member craved. His absence was debilitating to himself and the club. Now he is a fit, he is one of numerous striking ‘options’. He'll still play. He'll still play a lot. Liverpool have invested a lot of time and money waiting for him to be available again. The least he can do is invest a little time and patience in the Liverpool manager to use him as and when appropriate.
The questions may still be all about Sturridge, but the destiny of the team is not.
As this transfer window comes to a close, that it is one of the surest signs of healthy progress at Anfield.
Sturridge's refusal to sprint is one of the strangest things I have ever seen. It's a liability to have a player out there that won't try and play to 100% their ability. If I was Klopp I'd not play him until he had sorted that out tbh.
Luis Alberto to Lazio deal agreed, £4.3m possibly rising to £6m with add on's, which is around what we paid for him.
I'm just glad Skrtel's gone !
Ref: Robert Madley
It seems that we cannot go a single weekend without the dreaded new insistence on penalty box marshalling. On the one hand, things have been getting ridiculous in the box for years and it’s about time something was done about it. On the the other hand, it can really mar a splendid refereeing performance, as proven, by the unsuspecting Robert Madley.
Madley was having a fine game, agreeing with a tight offside call in the lead up to what would have been Liverpool’s second goal. His eagle-eyed assistant referee spotted that Adam Lallana was offside in the lead-up, and the goal was rightly ruled out. Then Madley correctly awarded Liverpool a penalty after Erik Lamela’s clumsy challenge on a top-knotted Roberto Firmino.
It was a corner that proved his downfall however. Just as the ball was whipped in, there was a skirmish involving Tottenham’s Jan Vertoghen and Liverpool’s Joel Matip. Marley blew his whistle to stop play, zeroing in on the players to give the Belgian a warning. Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp couldn’t believe his eyes: neither could the pundits on Match of the Day.
It was a bizarre decision by Madley to dish out warnings after an incident so blatant that he felt he needed to stop play. Surely the players are aware of what they shouldn’t be doing, and doling second chances and finger wags defeats the purpose of catching mischievous players in the act?
Grade: B-. The lack of consistency in penalty box incidents continues.
Mark Halsey’s Verdict
There was confusion all around when Vertonghen pulled Matip’s shirt, he was almost wrestling him more than anything else. This was one of the worst of the lot and Bob’s got one of the basic laws wrong.
He spotted the offence when the ball was in the play, he blows his whistle AFTER the corner has been taken and gives Vertonghen a warning. Then he restarts play with another corner, the ball is in play so by law he has to restart play with a penalty. The foul was committed before the ball was in play but you can clearly see Bobby doesn’t blow his whistle until the ball is active.
I suppose you could say he’s bottled giving the penalty and that’s what Jurgen Klopp is moaning about, you don’t know what you’re going to get from which referee and he would have got a lot of praise if he’d given a penalty – nobody would have complained. There’s no clear leadership coming from the PGMOL, they’ve been told to referee on their principles but obviously someone like Mike Dean has very different principles to other referees.
Ref: Robert Madley
It seems that we cannot go a single weekend without the dreaded new insistence on penalty box marshalling. On the one hand, things have been getting ridiculous in the box for years and it’s about time something was done about it. On the the other hand, it can really mar a splendid refereeing performance, as proven, by the unsuspecting Robert Madley.
Madley was having a fine game, agreeing with a tight offside call in the lead up to what would have been Liverpool’s second goal. His eagle-eyed assistant referee spotted that Adam Lallana was offside in the lead-up, and the goal was rightly ruled out. Then Madley correctly awarded Liverpool a penalty after Erik Lamela’s clumsy challenge on a top-knotted Roberto Firmino.
It was a corner that proved his downfall however. Just as the ball was whipped in, there was a skirmish involving Tottenham’s Jan Vertoghen and Liverpool’s Joel Matip. Marley blew his whistle to stop play, zeroing in on the players to give the Belgian a warning. Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp couldn’t believe his eyes: neither could the pundits on Match of the Day.
It was a bizarre decision by Madley to dish out warnings after an incident so blatant that he felt he needed to stop play. Surely the players are aware of what they shouldn’t be doing, and doling second chances and finger wags defeats the purpose of catching mischievous players in the act?
Grade: B-. The lack of consistency in penalty box incidents continues.
Mark Halsey’s Verdict
There was confusion all around when Vertonghen pulled Matip’s shirt, he was almost wrestling him more than anything else. This was one of the worst of the lot and Bob’s got one of the basic laws wrong.
He spotted the offence when the ball was in the play, he blows his whistle AFTER the corner has been taken and gives Vertonghen a warning. Then he restarts play with another corner, the ball is in play so by law he has to restart play with a penalty. The foul was committed before the ball was in play but you can clearly see Bobby doesn’t blow his whistle until the ball is active.
I suppose you could say he’s bottled giving the penalty and that’s what Jurgen Klopp is moaning about, you don’t know what you’re going to get from which referee and he would have got a lot of praise if he’d given a penalty – nobody would have complained. There’s no clear leadership coming from the PGMOL, they’ve been told to referee on their principles but obviously someone like Mike Dean has very different principles to other referees.
Come on, Rafa (and Mr halsey & everybody else), a top referee like 'Bobby' isn't going to let a corner be taken while there are players on the floor after a load of wrestling is he? Mr Madley's clear intent is to stop play & then restarting after offering advice (which would be right out of the officiating top drawer & unfortunately he maybe & allegedly accidentally blows his whistle a fraction late, is much more like what's happened. A clear case of the massive & regrettable agenda against a bit of 'it's a man's game' action at the set piece if you ask me.
Meanwhile up the other end, we'll never know if the blistering pace of Janssen would have got him on that through ball Migs might have dropped, miskicked or fell over due to the headlock / Boston crab being applied by a positionally disorientated Matip at the time. Spurs clearly robbed.
Lino must have supernatural powers of sight to see that offside, absolutely MUST have guessed.
Meanwhile up the other end, we'll never know if the blistering pace of Janssen would have got him on that through ball Migs might have dropped, miskicked or fell over due to the headlock / Boston crab being applied by a positionally disorientated Matip at the time. Spurs clearly robbed.
Lino must have supernatural powers of sight to see that offside, absolutely MUST have guessed.
You can definitely blame Torres.
Well a top ref. (and the BBC panel) clearly gave their opinion on the Liverpool pen. claim incident and I reckon Halsey knows the rules better than we do re. whether the ball was in play or not and when/how that affects the claim.
As for the Matip/Jansson incident .... please watch the replay in slow motion. Matip does nothing to deliberately impede Janssen, he is under no obligation whatsoever to physically get out of his way and Janssen runs straight into him (probably aware he has zero chance of getting to the ball), wihtout even the slightest attempt to go around, and if you watch carefully you will see Janssen's arms holding onto Matip but Matip doesn't raise his arms until the ball has gone over his head. Again, all and sundry saying no pen. except on United, Everton and Spurs fan sites
Yeah not really wanting to get into this again but I can understand him wanting to go with the way those two cnuts were running the club. I only disagree with the way he went.