Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.

Klopper76 said:
If I had any criticism of him it's that he hasn't prepared us well to deal with sides that sit in and defend in numbers. Maybe he's underestimating them but that's no excuse. We won't progress if we can't pick up points in games we're expected to do so.

Maybe I'm knee-jerking seeing as we're only two games into the season but from what I've seen we haven't moved forward at all. We game raise against superior sides than have no answer against the teams we're expected to beat.
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That was exactly the growing problem in his last 2 seasons at us. 2 years before he left, everybody including Klopp was talking about plan b for teams that park the bus and/or prepare themself against gegenpressing by simply kick the ball forward without any interest in make a gameplay, in the end havin luck and score against a uneffective Kloppp-team. But he never delivered it really.

And as you say it: it still works great against big teams, or Europe football, but for the everyday-life of the league you need also a plan where you can count on, with a lot of ideas in it, how to beat little teams.
 
Would be rather amusing if Klopp ended up being just as stubborn and set in his ways as Van Gaal.
 
Klopper76 said:
I have no idea why I even bother letting myself get excited at the start of the season any more. We're stuck in this endless loop where we can't get Champions League football because we can't attract the players needed to compete with the sides above us, and we can't attract the players needed because we don't have Champions League football. It's been like that since Benitez left apart from one very good season where we were fortunate to have Suarez as he was reaching his prime.

I don't think Liverpool have a divine right to succeed but considering the money we spend every season I think we deserve a bit better than what we've been getting. Why have we gone into the season without signing a left back (a massive problem area for us) and a holding midfielder which we've needed since Mascherano left in 2010? If it's down to Klopp then I'm baffled as I can't believe he genuinely thinks Henderson can play defensive midfield all season. The starting line up today seemed arrogant, like he thought we could simply play our attacking players and that would be enough. If I had any criticism of him it's that he hasn't prepared us well to deal with sides that sit in and defend in numbers. Maybe he's underestimating them but that's no excuse. We won't progress if we can't pick up points in games we're expected to do so.

Maybe I'm knee-jerking seeing as we're only two games into the season but from what I've seen we haven't moved forward at all. We game raise against superior sides than have no answer against the teams we're expected to beat. Today wasn't really any different to our defeats against Swansea, Watford, West Ham, Southampton, Palace etc from last season.We could go and beat Spurs, Leicester and Chelsea in the next three games but still find a way to drop points to Swansea and Hull afterwards. Spurs and Chelsea found ways to pick up the three points when they were up against it today and that's the difference between sides that can finish in the top four, and this Liverpool side.

On a positive note my expectations are pretty low now so I probably won't be too disappointed every time we drop points in games like today. We'll end up 6th or 7th.
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I think you are. You looked pretty good against arsenal with some genuine quality attacking play. I agree though, you do need a left back. I'd say you also need a striker as there are no guarantees with sturidge and firminho doesn't seem to be a top striker.
 
Better than today, not as good as was made out last week. Missed Can & Sakho (he's better than Klavan) today. As said MF / front is unbalanced for me.

Delivery into the box today was fecking dreadful, except from corners where it was non existent.
 
United fans should love Owen tbh. Signed for United, pissing off Liverpool fans. Won a title, pissing them off even further. Scored a winner in the derby, and he's trolling them as a club ambassador after he retired.

I mean, the guy is a hero in my book
 
M Bison said:
Good post

I don't think it can be down to anyone else other than Klopp today. As I said to you in the other thread, playing such an attacking midfield without a holding player is a massive gamble, especially away from home.

Is there talk of any other signings, especially with the sale of Benteke?
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Not at the moment. We've managed to get back £72 million in sales and only spent £66 million so we should have something to spend. It's whether or not we can find players that will improve us that is the question.
Skills said:
Tbf, you were shopping in exactly the same market the season you had champions league football.
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Yeah fair point. I should have rephrased it to consistent Champions League football. We can't do a great deal with just the odd season in it here and there. We'll only look like one of the big clubs again if we can show we're able to keep ourselves at that level.
 
Klopper76 said:
Klavan did well against Arsenal but he was awful today. Benteke wouldn't have made a difference. We never played in a way that suited his strengths as a forward.

Wijnaldum has been very underwhelming so far.
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I know benteke doesn't suit the way Klopp plays and which is why you sold him. But I have no idea what Klopp's plan B is. It's only two matches in, but this looks greatly familiar.
 
Moonred said:
I know benteke doesn't suit the way Klopp plays and which is why you sold him. But I have no idea what Klopp's plan B is. It's only two matches in, but this looks greatly familiar.
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It's definitely an issue in games against sides like Burnley where we're struggling. If he doesn't figure out a way to deal with it we'll never make any progress under Klopp.
 
Rafateria said:
Really ? Southampton played well and could have been on terms before that ridiculous penalty. How on earth the ref gave that I'll never know - did even a finger touch Shaw before he dived ?
EDIT : seemed I missed Clasie's knee touching Shaw's leg.

Southampton really need a striker though .. they could have had Benteke and given us some of the millions we've donated to them over the past few years. Tadic was Tadic .. hitting all corners of the stadium.

United were typical Mourinho. Boring. Of course the title is the target but watching your team of assembled stars playing Southampton like they were Barca ....
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You do know you were responding to a fellow Liverpool fan dont you? Cringe.!
 
thegregster said:
Klopp still has a good few other players to move on.

Lucas,Wisdom,Ballotelli,Ilori,Luis Alberto all likely to go?
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I'm not sure about Lucas as Klopp has been hesitant to sell him. The others will probably go although finding a club for Balotelli has been difficult. Heard a rumour from some terrible source that United were interested. Imagine the scenes if that happened. :lol:
 
Klopper76 said:
I'm not sure about Lucas as Klopp has been hesitant to sell him. The others will probably go although finding a club for Balotelli has been difficult. Heard a rumour from some terrible source that United were interested. Imagine the scenes if that happened. :lol:
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"He has just one working brain cell in his body. It is impossible to work with him" - Mourinho on Balotelli.
 
Rafateria said:
Really ? Southampton played well and could have been on terms before that ridiculous penalty. How on earth the ref gave that I'll never know - did even a finger touch Shaw before he dived ?
EDIT : seemed I missed Clasie's knee touching Shaw's leg.

Southampton really need a striker though .. they could have had Benteke and given us some of the millions we've donated to them over the past few years. Tadic was Tadic .. hitting all corners of the stadium.

United were typical Mourinho. Boring. Of course the title is the target but watching your team of assembled stars playing Southampton like they were Barca ....
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:lol::lol:
 
thegregster said:
Really? :lol:

Jose was supposed to be giving him career advice.
http://www.calciomercato.com/news/liverpool-balotelli-senza-squadra-chiede-aiuto-a-mourinho-578321
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pixel said:
"He has just one working brain cell in his body. It is impossible to work with him" - Mourinho on Balotelli.
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As I said, it was a terrible source. Ex City and Liverpool player Mario Balotelli signs from Liverpool to Manchester United, leading to a reunion with Jose Mourinho. Nothing sounds right about that to me.
 
This made me laugh.

The first comment says: ''@JimBoardman the only difference is the ones on the left actually mark.'' :lol:
 
Going to be another long season. Our league form since Klopp's arrival has not improved. feck knows what the answer is - but it's very demotivating seeing the same old shit season after season.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
Going to be another long season. Our league form since Klopp's arrival has not improved. feck knows what the answer is - but it's very demotivating seeing the same old shit season after season.
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You have to do what we did. Buy big, or at least...buy big where your weaknesses are, which I don't think Klopp has one...for whatever reason.
 
Wooly Red said:
I doubt we will always play like that, but it was already pretty infuriating. I think I understand better why you all were so mad last season.
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Don't think you'll continue with that kind of play, Klopp isn't stubborn as LVG and won't bury his head in the sand but will try to find different solutions. But long may it continue before he makes some changes :D
 
togg said:
You have to do what we did. Buy big, or at least...buy big where your weaknesses are, which I don't think Klopp has one...for whatever reason.
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Our weaknesses were clearly at CM, LB and GK when going into the summer. We've only addressed one, a bit baffling really.
 
When they sold Suarez, they should have gone out and bought a top class replacement and also a world class CM to replace Gerrard.

Instead they bought a whole heap of crap. No side with a CM containing any combo of Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum will ever win the league.
 
KM said:
:lol:

So much smugness after a victory against injury ravaged Arsenal. The delusion has no limits.
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Yes,. arguing that you are too eager to talk down your rivals definitely means being super smug about beating Arsenal in the light of you beating bournemouth and southampton, Especially six days later.

You cant help trying too hard, KM. But you really had the last word.
 
B20 said:
Yes,. arguing that you are too eager to talk down your rivals definitely means being super smug about beating Arsenal in the light of you beating bournemouth and southampton, Especially six days later.

You cant help trying too hard, KM. But you really had the last word.
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Bit stupid to say that you defeated Arsenal without mentioning the context behind it. They were injury ravaged and had a terrible CB pairing. I only said that it wasn't an impressive win which you took it as an attempt to play down Liverpool victory.
 
Klopp has now had two transfer windows and a full summer transfer window.

No more excuses, this is his squad!
 
GaryLifo said:
When they sold Suarez, they should have gone out and bought a top class replacement and also a world class CM to replace Gerrard.

Instead they bought a whole heap of crap. No side with a CM containing any combo of Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum will ever win the league.
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Exactly. The way I see it, they have always spent quite a bit of money on a lot of average players.

I realize it's not that easy to attract top top players to Liverpool but surley they could get at least a notch above the likes of the mentioned players if they splashed the cash at fewer players.
 
GaryLifo said:
When they sold Suarez, they should have gone out and bought a top class replacement and also a world class CM to replace Gerrard.

Instead they bought a whole heap of crap. No side with a CM containing any combo of Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum will ever win the league.
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Isn't that Grujic (?) chap supposed to be quite the talent?
 
GaryLifo said:
When they sold Suarez, they should have gone out and bought a top class replacement and also a world class CM to replace Gerrard.

Instead they bought a whole heap of crap. No side with a CM containing any combo of Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum will ever win the league.
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Which "world class" player would have gone there though?
They're battling at least 4 bigger financed teams here, and another 4-5 abroad too.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
Going to be another long season. Our league form since Klopp's arrival has not improved. feck knows what the answer is - but it's very demotivating seeing the same old shit season after season.
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It'll be a proper rollercoaster though, you'll have games you'll feel like dons in smashin the goals in, as well as letdowns like today
 
Honestly, is there a more overrated player in the league than Coutinho? Has been MIA in almost every big game since the 2013/14 wonder season and his stats and impact on the season is so overblown. Just in the RAWK thread now, there was someone who said he's world class but stuck playing for an inferior team. I'm sorry, but that excuse doesn't wash with me. He is the supposed fulcrum of that side and almost everything should go through him in an attacking sense, yet all I see from him are the wild shots from 25-30 yards out which go into Row Z more often than not. Granted, he'll score a screamer with it once in a while (eg. the two opening day strikes of the last two seasons), but is it really worth it for what he brings to the team? He has still yet to crack 10 goals and 10 assists in the league for Liverpool. Shit, even Chris Smalling had more of an impact for Utd's attack in the season before last!
 
B20 said:
Yes,. arguing that you are too eager to talk down your rivals definitely means being super smug about beating Arsenal in the light of you beating bournemouth and southampton, Especially six days later.

You cant help trying too hard, KM. But you really had the last word.
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can only beat who you are faced with though.

And we got 0 points from these 2 fixtures last year!
 
rotherham_red said:
Honestly, is there a more overrated player in the league than Coutinho? Has been MIA in almost every big game since the 2013/14 wonder season and his stats and impact on the season is so overblown. Just in the RAWK thread now, there was someone who said he's world class but stuck playing for an inferior team. I'm sorry, but that excuse doesn't wash with me. He is the supposed fulcrum of that side and almost everything should go through him in an attacking sense, yet all I see from him are the wild shots from 25-30 yards out which go into Row Z more often than not. Granted, he'll score a screamer with it once in a while (eg. the two opening day strikes of the last two seasons), but is it really worth it for what he brings to the team? He has still yet to crack 10 goals and 10 assists in the league for Liverpool. Shit, even Chris Smalling had more of an impact for Utd's attack in the season before last!
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Actually, Coutinho does very well in big games iirc. It's the rest of the games where needs to work on his consistency. Supremely talented though, no doubt about that.
 
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