Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense

cesc's_mullet said:
No on second thought you're right. A team that finished an extremely comfortable (laughable, to them) amount of points ahead of United has not a single player that could get into your squad. Not one.
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Funnily enough, when you look at it, there's not that many that I'd take either, despite the difference last year. None of their back four, which don't look that good (Moreno might turn out ok, but then again Shaw had a good season in the Prem last season), in midfield probably Henderson at the moment (when Herrera and Carrick are fit), and up front, despite their talent, we have a lot. Probably Sterling, for the raw excitement. I'd probably be willing to take more players from Arsenal's squad than Liverpool's at the moment, despite Arsenal finishing behind.

And this is because that idea of 'taking players from another team's squad' is completely stupid and blinkered. It's looking at players individually in a team sport, where a formation, teamwork and the system used has a great influence.
 
Hopefully this new defence just needs time to gel together and there wont be a repeat of the individual mistakes from last season, can't be gifting a team like city those chances, they're just too clinical. The silver lining is that Glen Johnson will now be out for a while, he seems so off the pace it's unreal and it's been going on way to long for him to still warrant a place in the team, though it's understandable Rodgers didnt want to have 4 new players in the defense in such a tough game. Still some positives to take our all round passing game is nice and fast and we controlled the game for about 40 minutes, albeit without creating any real decent chances and Markovic linked up well with Moreno when he came on. Tough game on Sunday vs Spurs now we need to be much better in the final 3rd against them and solid defensivley.
 
I hope to see Manquillo, Sakho, Lovren and Moreno start. All new Rodgers men - If Rodgers couldn't make it work with the defenders he inherited (who, to be fair, were generally quite good before he came in), we need to see he can make it work with handpicked ones.
 
I think Henderson & Studge & Sterling might edge their way into the Utd squad, tbf.

Coutinho for a bit of flat track bullying maybe - home games only perhaps
 
Mignolet is a huge achilles heel, every good team needs a top quality keeper and he's just not, surround him with the type of defending from last season and your needing to find 100+ goals again.
It needs addressing before CL football, cards in to face Barcelona.
 
Rooney in Dublin said:
Funnily enough, when you look at it, there's not that many that I'd take either, despite the difference last year. None of their back four, which don't look that good (Moreno might turn out ok, but then again Shaw had a good season in the Prem last season), in midfield probably Henderson at the moment (when Herrera and Carrick are fit), and up front, despite their talent, we have a lot. Probably Sterling, for the raw excitement. I'd probably be willing to take more players from Arsenal's squad than Liverpool's at the moment, despite Arsenal finishing behind.

And this is because that idea of 'taking players from another team's squad' is completely stupid and blinkered. It's looking at players individually in a team sport, where a formation, teamwork and the system used has a great influence.
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Henderson would comfortably walk into our midfield right now. Sturridge is better than Welbeck. Sterling would obviously get in. We can't even field right or left backs right now so even though their full backs aren't great, one or two of them would too.
 
Rafateria said:
Whilst that is all true I don't think we can apportion any blame to Moreno for the other goals (I mean that was an obscenely brilliant pass from Navas for the 3rd) and everything else he did (check out the video above) was damn good for a youngster making his PL debut.
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There was definite signs of quality from him, going forward he looked very comfortable. And considering this is your hardest game of the league season (bar away to Chelsea) then he should get better. Thrown in at the deep end.
 
Watching both teams last night, it's painfully obvious at how far United are behind. Not necessarily in quality of players, but quality of play. The movement, and the willingness of possession from all players on both teams is just completely what United are lacking.

The confidence of Liverpool's front players is outstanding, and that has got to be down to Rodger's influence. I hope he doesn't have the same effect on Balotelli that he has had on Sturridge, otherwise they have a world class match winner on their hands. An on-form Balotelli could have changed the game for Liverpool last night.

United fans may not want to admit it, but Liverpool matched City blow for blow last night up until Jovetic's first goal. City then slowed down the tempo and took control, which I think Liverpool would have done if they had got the first.

It's mainly the consistency which may be an issue with Liverpool this season, which wasn't last season. Fair play to the players and Rodgers, last season they maintained a very high level of performance for the majority of the season, but that is so difficult to do.

What City and Chelsea have, which I'm not sure Liverpool do, now that Suarez is gone, are players that can win games, even when the team are not playing particularly well. It's how we won the league 2 years ago with RVP, and I think it will eventually be Liverpool's down-fall this season.

Time will tell, however it is going to take a time and a lot of hard work for United to begin playing anywhere near the same level of football as both teams last night.
 
Rafateria said:
You're basing that on QPR - which you really shouldn't because they look far and away the worst team in the league so far, and Spurs did not look so good against West Ham gaining a lucky win ! Whereas we eked out a victory against a tough Southampton team and then our new look side played the unchanged and settled Champions away from home, where City swept aside nearly everyone last season, however Liverpool were not dominated but conceded to mostly superb passing and finishing by top class players. There are huge differences in the degrees of difficulty between our opponents so far.

I expect Balotelli, Lallana or Markovic, Flanno (Moreno is injured) and Manquillo (Johnson is injured) all to come in and start against you next week, wouldn't be surprised to see the midfield diamond. You won't enjoy the possession you have to date so it will be interesting to see what you can do without it. Suffice to say we won't be looking for a draw !
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Obviously playing QPR at home is a world away from playing away at Man. City. But then again, playing S'hampton at home is easier than playing W. Ham away, especially when the former have lost several of their best players and their manager. And who cares whether or not you were "dominated" by City - you were still well beaten by a side that had more gears to go through if they needed to (they didn't), whilst Liverpool were long since maxed out.

It's the constant refrain of Liverpool fans, I've noticed, that Spurs are just "lucky" - that we fluke most of the games that we win. Well, you'd better hope that Lady Luck is your side this Sunday, because I reckon you'll need it. Your whole back 5 looks shaky, your midfield looks "meh" and your attack, whilst having pace aplenty, is clearly suffering from not having Suarez around. It's not only his goal-scoring and creativity that's gone, it's also his energy and harrying of opposition players ... harrying that created so much more freedom and space for your other attacking players.
 
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unitedbhoy said:
Watching both teams last night, it's painfully obvious at how far United are behind. Not necessarily in quality of players, but quality of play. The movement, and the willingness of possession from all players on both teams is just completely what United are lacking.

The confidence of Liverpool's front players is outstanding, and that has got to be down to Rodger's influence. I hope he doesn't have the same effect on Balotelli that he has had on Sturridge, otherwise they have a world class match winner on their hands. An on-form Balotelli could have changed the game for Liverpool last night.

United fans may not want to admit it, but Liverpool matched City blow for blow last night up until Jovetic's first goal. City then slowed down the tempo and took control, which I think Liverpool would have done if they had got the first.

It's mainly the consistency which may be an issue with Liverpool this season, which wasn't last season. Fair play to the players and Rodgers, last season they maintained a very high level of performance for the majority of the season, but that is so difficult to do.

What City and Chelsea have, which I'm not sure Liverpool do, now that Suarez is gone, are players that can win games, even when the team are not playing particularly well. It's how we won the league 2 years ago with RVP, and I think it will eventually be Liverpool's down-fall this season.

Time will tell, however it is going to take a time and a lot of hard work for United to begin playing anywhere near the same level of football as both teams last night.
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Not quite. City gained control around the 30th minute which was usually when Liverpools high intensity pressing starts to deminish. It was the same last year and you could see that in their game against us in the states. Rodgers effectively has the team playing smash and grab to get the better of opposition teams before the game starts; however, you can only do this so much. It's why against quality sides who weather the storm they'll come out second best this season because their players for as good as they where, are not technical beasts who can rely on those attributes to win games. It's pretty much the polar opposite of United under the Fergie era where for the most part United where consistent all game unless they where chasing in which the pressing and the pressure got ramped up and teams usually got steam rolled due to our players technical ability.
 
unitedbhoy said:
Watching both teams last night, it's painfully obvious at how far United are behind. Not necessarily in quality of players, but quality of play. The movement, and the willingness of possession from all players on both teams is just completely what United are lacking.

The confidence of Liverpool's front players is outstanding, and that has got to be down to Rodger's influence. I hope he doesn't have the same effect on Balotelli that he has had on Sturridge, otherwise they have a world class match winner on their hands. An on-form Balotelli could have changed the game for Liverpool last night.

United fans may not want to admit it, but Liverpool matched City blow for blow last night up until Jovetic's first goal. City then slowed down the tempo and took control, which I think Liverpool would have done if they had got the first.

It's mainly the consistency which may be an issue with Liverpool this season, which wasn't last season. Fair play to the players and Rodgers, last season they maintained a very high level of performance for the majority of the season, but that is so difficult to do.

What City and Chelsea have, which I'm not sure Liverpool do, now that Suarez is gone, are players that can win games, even when the team are not playing particularly well. It's how we won the league 2 years ago with RVP, and I think it will eventually be Liverpool's down-fall this season.

Time will tell, however it is going to take a time and a lot of hard work for United to begin playing anywhere near the same level of football as both teams last night.
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But, City were pretty ordinary last night and still put LFC away pretty comfortably. Liverpool are now realising that last year was THE chance and they ballsed it right up, and their best player has naffed off. 4th is now the best they can hope for probably. That's gotta hurt.

Whereas at Utd, things are now on the up, 2 sensational central MF signings this week, Shaw/Rafael at WB, some defenders fit/signed and ADM hitting the ground on fire and we'll be fine.

A win at Burnley would be handy too, obv.
 
Rooney in Dublin said:
Your CBs were to blame for the second. It was a wonderful goal, but the offside was played woefully: Lovren stepped out of defence, and Skrtel just stayed behind (with Johnson), putting 2 or 3 City players onside. One of them was definitely at fault for that. As for the third, fantastic pass but Lovren probably could've done better (Mignolet was more to blame for that one though maybe).
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I havent seen it but it does take a while for two centre backs to bed in and get used to each other. Also I don't particularly like Skrtel. He hasnt impressed me in recent years and I'd much prefer a Sakho Lovren partnership.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Not quite. City gained control around the 30th minute which was usually when Liverpools high intensity pressing starts to deminish. It was the same last year and you could see that in their game against us in the states. Rodgers effectively has the team playing smash and grab to get the better of opposition teams before the game starts; however, you can only do this so much. It's why against quality sides who weather the storm they'll come out second best this season because their players for as good as they where, are not technical beasts who can rely on those attributes to win games. It's pretty much the polar opposite of United under the Fergie era where for the most part United where consistent all game unless they where chasing in which the pressing and the pressure got ramped up and teams usually got steam rolled due to our players technical ability.
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I think you are just trying to match the game to what you've seen in the past. That game didn't follow the pattern of 30 minute intensity at all. It was controlled and patient from both sides for pretty much up to the goal, with us controlling it better. That doesn't win you points obviously, but the notion that city took over because the weathered the storm and that was then it from us is not what happened out there.
 
montpelier said:
But, City were pretty ordinary last night and still put LFC away pretty comfortably. Liverpool are now realising that last year was THE chance and they ballsed it right up, and their best player has naffed off. 4th is now the best they can hope for probably. That's gotta hurt.

Whereas at Utd, things are now on the up, 2 sensational central MF signings this week, Shaw/Rafael at WB, some defenders fit/signed and ADM hitting the ground on fire and we'll be fine.

A win at Burnley would be handy too, obv.
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Lol. As has been said, get your first win before proclaiming you are on the up. Losing the toughest game of the season in the second round of the league also isn't cause for any sort of proclamation that last season was the chance, etc.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
No on second thought you're right. A team that finished an extremely comfortable (laughable, to them) amount of points ahead of United has not a single player that could get into your squad. Not one.
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Maybe he mean't team?

- - - - - - De Gea - - - - - -
Rafael - Jones - Rojo - Shaw
- - - Carrick - - Herrera - -
- - - - - - - Mata - - - - - -
Di Maria - Rooney - Januzaj

This has got to be on the cards and if so I can see Sterling in place of Adnan but that's it.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Not quite. City gained control around the 30th minute which was usually when Liverpools high intensity pressing starts to deminish. It was the same last year and you could see that in their game against us in the states. Rodgers effectively has the team playing smash and grab to get the better of opposition teams before the game starts; however, you can only do this so much. It's why against quality sides who weather the storm they'll come out second best this season because their players for as good as they where, are not technical beasts who can rely on those attributes to win games. It's pretty much the polar opposite of United under the Fergie era where for the most part United where consistent all game unless they where chasing in which the pressing and the pressure got ramped up and teams usually got steam rolled due to our players technical ability.
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Are you saying 'not quite' to my whole post? Liverpool were bossing the possession and controlled the game for the majority of the first half.

montpelier said:
But, City were pretty ordinary last night and still put LFC away pretty comfortably. Liverpool are now realising that last year was THE chance and they ballsed it right up, and their best player has naffed off. 4th is now the best they can hope for probably. That's gotta hurt.

Whereas at Utd, things are now on the up, 2 sensational central MF signings this week, Shaw/Rafael at WB, some defenders fit/signed and ADM hitting the ground on fire and we'll be fine.

A win at Burnley would be handy too, obv.
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City were not 'ordinary'. They had great work-rate and their defensive structure was phenomenal. They probably could have produced a bit more on the offensive side, but 'ordinary'? Nah.

I think most people are, yet again, underestimating Liverpool and the how much their players have progressed.

I would be surprised if they are not in the running for the title with 4/5 games left.
 
The Reds overachieved last season on the back of Suarez's amazing season. They play good football though. The defense was an issue even last year. I think consolidating their top 4 status should be their primary goal and they are well eiqupped to do that.
 
B20 said:
I hope to see Manquillo, Sakho, Lovren and Moreno start. All new Rodgers men - If Rodgers couldn't make it work with the defenders he inherited (who, to be fair, were generally quite good before he came in), we need to see he can make it work with handpicked ones.
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Doubt it'll be much better. We've tried so many different defenders that it has to be something at a tactical/coaching level that's making us so awful defensively. Rodgers seems to want to buy defenders that can sort themselves out defensively but that's unlikely to happen, he needs to take some of the blame and look to improve on the training ground.

When Agger gets fit he should be starting too, no matter how much we spend we still have yet to get a better centre back than him.
 
Yorkeontop said:
The Reds overachieved last season on the back of Suarez's amazing season. They play good football though. The defense was an issue even last year. I think consolidating their top 4 status should be their primary goal and they are well eiqupped to do that.
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They are.

Much will depend on how quickly United get out of the rut and get in sync with LVG's ways. If they do that quickly, it's not as if Liverpool don't have a chance of 4th, but then it will be a proper contest. If we take 3-4 months or more to get used to his philosophy it will be hard for us to get 4th.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Doubt it'll be much better. We've tried so many different defenders that it has to be something at a tactical/coaching level that's making us so awful defensively. Rodgers seems to want to buy defenders that can sort themselves out defensively but that's unlikely to happen, he needs to take some of the blame and look to improve on the training ground.

When Agger gets fit he should be starting too, no matter how much we spend we still have yet to get a better centre back than him.
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It's absolutely something to do with tactics and maybe also coaching. We'll never be a dead solid side under rodgers, because we love to attack too much for that. It's not just about improving on the training ground - I think fundamentally, we just don't spend as many hours on defensive drills as a Mourinho or Rafa team does. Or Moyes/Hodgson for the deflating end of the scale. That said, within that scope there is still plenty of room for improvement.

I'd be looking at Agger and Sakho ahead of Skrtel. Mostly, I have my fingers crossed that Lovren's leadership will steady them more. Agger did when he was fit. I get that Rodgers picks Skrtel on the basis that he's in the side and has been doing well enough to not be dropped, but he should be anyway.
 
B20 said:
It's absolutely something to do with tactics and maybe also coaching. We'll never be a dead solid side under rodgers, because we love to attack too much for that. It's not just about improving on the training ground - I think fundamentally, we just don't spend as many hours on defensive drills as a Mourinho or Rafa team does. Or Moyes/Hodgson for the deflating end of the scale. That said, within that scope there is still plenty of room for improvement.

I'd be looking at Agger and Sakho ahead of Skrtel. Mostly, I have my fingers crossed that Lovren's leadership will steady them more. Agger did when he was fit. I get that Rodgers picks Skrtel on the basis that he's in the side and has been doing well enough to not be dropped, but he should be anyway.
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Spot on, agree with all of that.
 
montpelier said:
.... Whereas at Utd, things are now on the up ...
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LOL: You've started the season badly, with just 1 point from two games against weakish teams. Even under Moyes you did much better in same fixtures last year.

If that's things 'now on the up', I hate to think what a decline would look like.
 
B20 said:
I don't think Lovren had a bad game. The only thing you can fault him for at the first goal was assuming Moreno didn't need 2-3 seconds to decide what to do with that ball.

For the third, maybe a centreback with beastly pace would have stopped him, but that was never Lovren's shtick anyway - We conceded because a striker with deadly pace ran on to a perfect through ball and then found the near post so wide open he could sidefoot it into the net.

Johnson and Mignolet were our worst players. Henderson and Coutinho disappointed. Allen, Moreno (error for the first aside) and Sturridge looked good (although Sturridge took time to get in the game), the rest were decent enough.
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I don't either. For their 2nd goal I was furious when Lovren and Moreno stepped up and Skrtel and Johnson decided to go back.

Agreed regarding Johnson and Mignolet. I thought Gerrard's passing was great today, but his set piece delivery was a bit off.
 
It's tough for Liverpool in the sense that they are attempting to work a new back four in and get them in sync while they are playing good sides. If they had our draw at the start I think it would be a lot more helpful (obvious statement I know).
 
Rooney in Dublin said:
Funnily enough, when you look at it, there's not that many that I'd take either, despite the difference last year. None of their back four, which don't look that good (Moreno might turn out ok, but then again Shaw had a good season in the Prem last season), in midfield probably Henderson at the moment (when Herrera and Carrick are fit), and up front, despite their talent, we have a lot. Probably Sterling, for the raw excitement. I'd probably be willing to take more players from Arsenal's squad than Liverpool's at the moment, despite Arsenal finishing behind.

And this is because that idea of 'taking players from another team's squad' is completely stupid and blinkered. It's looking at players individually in a team sport, where a formation, teamwork and the system used has a great influence.
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Fair point, Liverpool's system really brings out the best in their attacking play.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Fair point, Liverpool's system really brings out the best in their attacking play.
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Yeah that was my point, maybe not perfectly worded. I see a lot of these 'only x players would make it into our starting XI' conversations, and I think they're a bit silly. I know Liverpool fans disagree, but I really think quite a few of their players individually aren't anything extraordinary, but when the system is functioning and everyone is on song, they look like much more than the sum of their individualities (and this is a compliment to Rodgers's work).
 
GlastonSpur said:
LOL: You've started the season badly, with just 1 point from two games against weakish teams. Even under Moyes you did much better in same fixtures last year.

If that's things 'now on the up', I hate to think what a decline would look like.
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I am sure everyone would agree we have had a very poor start. But when he said things look up, he didn't mean just the first two games of a new season under a new manager with half the starting 11 out injured and a couple of new signings (one of them a world class player) not yet available to play.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Doubt it'll be much better. We've tried so many different defenders that it has to be something at a tactical/coaching level that's making us so awful defensively. Rodgers seems to want to buy defenders that can sort themselves out defensively but that's unlikely to happen, he needs to take some of the blame and look to improve on the training ground.

When Agger gets fit he should be starting too, no matter how much we spend we still have yet to get a better centre back than him.
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Firstly we have to realise that Rodgers did not have a poor defence when he was at Swansea and they played a similar system, so it's not necessarily the system. The way we play we will never have the best defensive record in the league but we can save 10-12 goals from last season and that is what we are looking for to counteract the lose of Suarez's goals. The biggest issue we have right now is that Skrtel continues to remain static, both in pressing forward and in closing that massive gap to Lovren when Lovren moves towards an attacker (the FBs will follow their CB), which leaves a huge hole for the opposition to take advantage of - it happened against Southampton and again yesterday. Forget what ever else he did because that alone is causing us a massive headache. Maybe Sakho at LCB and Lovren at RCB (he is perfectly at home on left or right foot) would go part of the way to solving that issue, I hope we see it soon.

Secondly some Pool supporters need to realise that there is no longer a 1st team place for Agger at Liverpool and he is no longer anywhere near being the best CB we have. It seems the heart grows fonder when his more recent error-strewn matches fade from memory. Rodgers didn't go out and buy two CBs for £40m in the last 12 months because he is happy with the Skrtel-Agger partnership and wanted depth. Agger is 4th choice now and that will not be good enough for him, I would put money on him being gone by the end of this month. In his own words yesterday (in the Echo today) :

..... speaking to Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten, Agger confirmed that his future was still up in the air. “The future is complicated,” he said. “There are a few things that has to be sorted and we have to take it from there. I actually don’t know what will happen. It is a bit up to Liverpool. “I have had niggling injuries at the wrong times and I have to say that it is difficult to change the team when it is winning. I am not frustrated by that. I am frustrated the way it happened and the way it was handled.”
 
I know he won't play much, and that the chances are he'll leave. Don't agree with how poor you think he is though, and I find it odd that someone who loves stats as much as you is willing to ignore the statistical evidence that shows we're better with Agger in the team.

1 clean sheet every 2 games with Agger. That's been the ratio throughout his career, even under Rodgers. Without him though? Disastrous, almost all our clean sheets last season came when he played. Incidentally Sakho only managed 1 clean sheet in 17 games last season, but as he usually played with Skrtel I guess that's to be expected.
 
His body is made of glass so you can't rely on him to string a run of games together. Otherwise he's very good, declined from a few years ago but I think he's still our best centre back too.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Was. He hasn't been for about a year and a half now. It's gutting as well because I love Agger.
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Who do you think is out of interest, Sakho or Lovren? (Can't be Skrtel :D)

Whether he's the best individually or not, when he plays our defence is more secure. That's about the only thing that matters to me, too many people are looking at our defence individually instead of what the best combination is.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Who do you think is out of interest, Sakho or Lovren? (Can't be Skrtel :D)

Whether he's the best individually or not, when he plays our defence is more secure. That's about the only thing that matters to me, too many people are looking at our defence individually instead of what the best combination is.
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Lovren > Sakho > Agger >>>>>>>>>>>>> Skrtel.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
I know he won't play much, and that the chances are he'll leave. Don't agree with how poor you think he is though, and I find it odd that someone who loves stats as much as you is willing to ignore the statistical evidence that shows we're better with Agger in the team.

1 clean sheet every 2 games with Agger. That's been the ratio throughout his career, even under Rodgers. Without him though? Disastrous, almost all our clean sheets last season came when he played. Incidentally Sakho only managed 1 clean sheet in 17 games last season, but as he usually played with Skrtel I guess that's to be expected.
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Agger's vastly under-appreciated by a lot of Liverpool fans and I'm not sure why, he's comfortably your best centre-half, was he injured a lot last season or was he just chosen not to play?
 
AltiUn said:
Agger's vastly under-appreciated by a lot of Liverpool fans and I'm not sure why, he's comfortably your best centre-half, was he injured a lot last season or was he just chosen not to play?
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Bit of both. Missed a lot of games through injury but was also on the bench even when fit because Rodgers tries not to make changes at centre back unless he's forced to through injury/suspension - once you're in, you're in it seems, as Skrtel shows.
 
The mark of 7 for Moreno is a bit generous.

It's a goodish pass for the 3rd goal but it travels about 25 yards with a bit of curve on it. There's plenty of time to read it and suss out what not to to do. It's in front of him until he gets sucked in, there isn't a problem. Kinda plods after it and then gets spooked by Aguero - awful defending
 
amolbhatia100 said:
They are.

Much will depend on how quickly United get out of the rut and get in sync with LVG's ways. If they do that quickly, it's not as if Liverpool don't have a chance of 4th, but then it will be a proper contest. If we take 3-4 months or more to get used to his philosophy it will be hard for us to get 4th.
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I posted a few weeks ago that I felt too many people were premature in writing off Spurs signings from last season. Now they've got themselves a good manager I fully expect them to improve on last season's points tally. Don't think Everton will be too far off either. Could be the toughest PL ever.
 
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