Nonsense. Everyone knows it was invented in 1992.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
Nonsense. Everyone knows it was invented in 1992.
You're logic is completely flawed. You seem to think only in extremes. In your mind either we can take last season as the base where Liverpool were good and Manchester United weren't so Liverpool win the argument, or we take the season before where United were good and Liverpool weren't so United win the argument. In any field, in any analysis, you don't tend to pick one period as a base for everything because it suits your argument. If I were doing what you are, I'd pick 2013, and just bang on about our points total, say last season will not impact this one and claim we will be champions, but I'm not. I'm doing what makes complete and logical sense. I'm using the recent years as a base, but also giving last season it's due importance as the most recent season. We are a quality side full of titles won amongst it. We have just come off a David Moyes season. That's why instead of saying well either win the league or come close, I'm saying well finish 4th. I'm taking into account last season right there in that statement.
Your opinions sound like one of a passionate and biased fan sadly. Everything you posts includes extremes or something that's supposed to fit yours or someone else's narrative. If someone mentions the effect of Suarez you'll go on about the effect of sir Alex, but not just stop there, you'll take it to the extreme making it sound like he ran the club in such a way that the roof is going to collapse once he left. It's really odd and it seems to stem from your desire for these things to happen rather than any actual basis, because obviously you haven't a clue as to how Saf ran the club. How would you even know? It's all wishful thinking from a rival fan.
Also, I don't agree with the last statement. A return to titles is likely IMO, just not this coming season. I think we'll probably win it again before Liverpool does,
Yeah, agreed. Said the same about Bony over the past few weeks, that he's a good striker but what we need is someone more versatile than him, who can give us tactical flexibility. Plus I'm not sure we could keep him happy at the same time as doing what's best for the team, as I can't see him working well in a partnership with Sturridge.
The only thing I'd add is that I struggle to think of anyone not available now who would become available in January. With any luck we'd have to consider whether it's worth getting someone cup-tied at that stage too.
So do yours and most people's on here (including my own).
You haven't a clue of how to construct a strategy. No unbiased person would claim against the usual practice of taking a few seasons into account when judging a team. Also, if the last season is the only base according to your fantastic analytical system, why didn't it work last season when Liverpool finished 2nd after a miserable season before (the base)?
To different degrees of course, which was obviously the point.
My points are far more measured than the usual
you get when pointing out something that others don't like. Attack the post not the poster - tends to lead to better discussion, which we were having before I was being told why I'm 'deluded'.
@PickledRed, I think that most Unitrd fans have realised and accepted that the years of winning three titles in most four or five year periods is over.
We had the best manager, we now have one of the best, and most importantly, we had unique continuity, which we now don't, and may not for a long time, if ever again.
What you're saying about nothing being guaranteed anymore, like we were under Sir Alex is true. Few will try to deny it.
But if United fans see us going straight back to the top (and not all of us do) it's not based on what happened under Sir Alex - aftervall, that's over now. It's based on what we believe the new manager can do.
And most of agree that Sir Alex got more out of the squad than anyone else would have, and his achievements said more about him than the full squad.
We're just optomistic because a) who isn't? We're football fans, b) we're your rivals, and c) we have a good manager and some very good players.
We had the best manager, we now have one of the best, and most importantly, we had unique continuity, which we now don't, and may not for a long time, if ever again.
What you're saying about nothing being guaranteed anymore, like we were under Sir Alex is true. Few will try to deny it.
But if United fans see us going straight back to the top (and not all of us do) it's not based on what happened under Sir Alex - aftervall, that's over now. It's based on what we believe the new manager can do.
And most of agree that Sir Alex got more out of the squad than anyone else would have, and his achievements said more about him than the full squad.
We're just optomistic because a) who isn't? We're football fans, b) we're your rivals, and c) we have a good manager and some very good players.
Aye. I wouldn't complain if we signed Cavani or Falcao like, but I think we could make better use of the money. Benzema for me is the archetype. We won't have any chance of getting him, but he's the type of striker we need IMO.
Also, if the last season is the only base according to your fantastic analytical system, why didn't it work last season when Liverpool finished 2nd after a miserable season before (the base)?
I think looking back beyond a season isn't accurate at all, but neither is just looking back at the season gone. Non-playing factors have to be taken into account too, such as players signed and sold, as well as managerial changes.
One season follows the next. Are you saying, as a rule, the most relevant season is not the one just gone? At no point have I dismissed relevance of previous seasons but I believe them to be less relevant in time. Just logical, no?
Also, if the last season is the only base according to your fantastic analytical system, why didn't it work last season when Liverpool finished 2nd after a miserable season before (the base)?
Agree with all of that.
On the point about being optimistic, I get accused of delusion for such things by some.
I think Louis van Gaal is a little better than Kenny Dalglish and Roy Hodgson. When the Brendan Rodgers came to the helm things began to change, first in terms of performances and then in terms of results. This to me suggests Kenny & Roy under performed because prior to them you were doing well with one bad season under Rafa and after them you went back to doing well.
Furthermore I notice you have not compared financial situations, in 2010 - 11 you guys were on the verge of bankruptcy so things were more difficult than having just signed a record breaking deal with Addidas for instance, it remains to be seen whether we will however it does appear we could buy our way back into the top four if it comes to that. If we fail to get top four this season, then we must get it the next otherwise our addidas deal is drastically reduced so expect us to spend very big next summer if need be.
Moyes is more like Hodgson and Dalglish. As for Louis van Gaal or Ferguson, I won't be comparing them to Rafa or Rodgers just yet but you get the picture.
Except for the fact that Kenny won four league titles in England along with a few other major trophies, whilst building the best side in our history. Kenny is a winner and has proven he can be successful. The same cannot be said of the other two.
I'd count give the last 3-5 years relevance with the last having the most and it sort of averaging out with a slant towards more recent years. Either way, football is not a plain statistics and a lot of this is just random speculation, hope and guesswork. But if were doing speculation and guesswork it should have some decent basis, of course.
The prices with bookies ultimately depend on where punters are putting their money. That Chelsea are favourites is, at least in part, a reflection of fans getting swept up by the hype. They're undoubtedly strong, but talk of them being outright favourites who will comfortably win the league is nonsense.
If the poster makes strange posts, attacking his posts automatically feels like an attack on him to him.My points are far more measured than the usual
Attack the post not the poster - tends to lead to better discussion, which we were having before I was being told why I'm 'deluded'.
There's a lot you say I agree with actually but some of it is heavily soaked in bias and wishful thinking. The actual underlying opinions even might not be but they're written in such a fashion.
Agree with all of that. That's why I think well have some difficulties this season. New manager, new philosophy, lots of old heads gone. I'm very optimistic with LVG in charge, and I think the future of the club is good as long as we make the decisions we have in the last 6 months (for eg. sacking, Moyes, getting LVG) but I don't think it would be right to expect LVG to suddenly in his first season to be delivering a league title, that's for sure.
Agree. City are too strong for Chelsea to walk away with anything.
Didn't Daglish achieve that in the era of the boot room ? Where high authority figures at the club would cram themselves into a room in Anfield and discuss tactics and player selections and how to take the club forward, it was basically a poorer version of whats in place at Bayern today. Sourness put an end to that era and you've never recovered.
Kenny was completely outdated and his latest appointment was a look to the past through emotionally tear stained eyes "return of the king" and all that jazz.
Can we not change the title then? They won't rival us or top four this coming season. Harsh but true.
Sturridge doesn't strike me as someone who will just continue 110% through thick and thin, balls to the wall, 'nothing will stop me' mentality. I think that is a bit of an undertone that has yet to be explored. Even a couple of times last season he showed he was a bit of a sook when things weren't going his way. That will definitely be under the spotlight this season providing they don't bring in a proper world class striker.
To be fair he won the title with Blackburn after managing them from the championship, albeit with some cash injection from Walker.
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Football is a game that moves quickly, I would not say a lot of the players from the late 80s and mid-90s would necessarily be as good today because the game changes.
I think David Moyes' methods might have been better suited to the past, I can't say with any degree of confidence that if Kenny returned to management this season that he would perform better than a David Moyes or Roy Hodgson.
My post was in response to a poster who suggested Manchester United should be judged not on what was a few short years ago but on what is, this is a struggling Manchester United and a thriving Liverpool, his reasoning was simple in that football moves so quickly you must adapt and if you don't then you get left behind.
If this is to be applied to Manchester United then I think it should be applied to Kenny Dalglish too.
How is the last decade relevant in any shape or form ? Different players or the same players at different stages of their careers ? Different managers or again at different stages of their careers ? We can only look at how a team may progress/regress from the previous season. So, players in /out, manager in/out, aging players, change of tactics, injuries/form, change of ownership, these are the only major relevant factors so increasing sample size to include previous seasons is null and void.
And it wasn't one swallow, it was a whole season. I'll be very interested in hearing of your 'evidence' because all I've read on here so far is wishful thinking and conjecture (this goes for both United and Liverpool). Fact is until the season starts we don't know how much we'll miss Suarez (if you want to use stats how about Liverpool's win averages ; ca. 65% without Suarez and 48% with Suarez) or how the (as we see it) wide-reaching improvements to the team/squad will actually pan out. And United don't know how 3-5-2, their new signings, new manager or loss of leadership all over the park, will work out either.
Seems an odd rebuttal to me. Is it not easier to build a patio when you're in an existing house, rather than having to save up for a deposit, buy land, get someone to build a home before you can build a patio? Winning experience is immense - A decade for a few, but 4 or 5 years of being at a club and having a big role will leave a mark. It can't really be discounted, I feel anyway.
Yes of course experience counts, yet you've just lost your most experienced and successful players (who were there to support the younger players last season, both on and off the pitch), and most importantly their manager too, so 'experience' in that sense is less relevant than it was (despite the fact you still have numerous PL & CL winners in your squad). Which all goes back to my comment :
Rather weird analogy but good luck with your patio BTW
And most of our squad won the league two years ago. Times change but dippers will not allow st Stevie to be dropped and he is too arrogant to retire gracefully, should Rogers manage the situation well and get younger less self obsessed players to take his place your resurgence could well continue at pace, if not........
Sterling, Henderson, Coutinho & Sturridge are their best players by a mile.
The other players in their team are nothing special but they play well as a team under Rodgers' system
As for signings they've made this season so far - they've been solid, not bad, but not really inspiring either - they've added depth to their squad which was missing last season and will be crucial for them especially now that they're back in the CL.
From the beginning they'll be primed as potential title contenders, plus the added games of playing in CL will adversely affect them towards the latter stages of the season - injuries, fatigue, pressure etc.
They need to drop Gerrard. Not for every match, but that transition period needs to happen sooner rather than later or they will get caught out, especially in the CL.
We'll be battling them & Arsenal for the last two CL spots come the end of the season, and I think Liverpool will miss out in the end and finish 5th.
The other players in their team are nothing special but they play well as a team under Rodgers' system
As for signings they've made this season so far - they've been solid, not bad, but not really inspiring either - they've added depth to their squad which was missing last season and will be crucial for them especially now that they're back in the CL.
From the beginning they'll be primed as potential title contenders, plus the added games of playing in CL will adversely affect them towards the latter stages of the season - injuries, fatigue, pressure etc.
They need to drop Gerrard. Not for every match, but that transition period needs to happen sooner rather than later or they will get caught out, especially in the CL.
We'll be battling them & Arsenal for the last two CL spots come the end of the season, and I think Liverpool will miss out in the end and finish 5th.
Haven't heard anything but what a god awful signing that would be.
One more addition up top is all is needed.. Not so much Bony but more a Higuain/Ballotelli/Falcao. For the record, Falcao would be absolute lethal in that system.
My point is United have dominated for 20years. Liverpool have had their best season domestically in the EP league since it started. History suggest United will be back (of course doesn't always work this way) Liverpool have given their supporters hope (but then sold their best player) the smart money would be on United finishing above Liverpool. Time will tell.
I see Rodgers has today finally solved the problem of how to replace Suarez. Whenever we are playing towards the Kop.
Champions League is going to be a piece of piss.
4-0 is a nice result. Some very good performances, especially Coutinho. Means nothing really but pleased to win.
But we don't have Suarez. I call match fixing.
I'm going to enjoy watching Liverpool not win the league again this season.
That is all.
That is all.
Beautiful team to watch. Henderson's 4-0 goal was a mesmerising team play.
Yea remember it vividly, fecking West Aaaaam. You could say Blackburn then was the first incarnation of cash soaked success we see in the modern game today. The original SAS fired them to the title, it really was an astonishing season.
Going to win the league, la.