Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
Kroos, Rakitic, Reus, Hernanes.....Mata is an excellent player, Mourinho clearly thinks the likes of Oscar, Hazard and Fabregas are better suited to his team.
Not the best three creative players. The three best central attacking midfielders. Of course you can just field one in the optimal role so it is worth as much as having the three best strikers in the team if you can't play more than one or two.
4 of them had a poor world cup. They have never been that consistent anyway. Had only one good season but on average, they are indeed average. Gerrard is definitely average now.
Coutinho is not bad, but still average.
Markovic may become an above average player. But he's not there yet.
You have average players playing well as a team last season have to admit.
If they are just average what were Rooney and co last season, bordering on abysmal?
Sterling had a poor world cup?
Where's the white text?
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Rooney had an average World Cup so presumably he's average as well?
Sterling. Had one good season under his belt. Bravo. Time will tell.
Sturridge - yet to be seen if he can get a shitload of goals without playing with Dracula. Great player, but will need the required service to deliver.
Gerrard - past his best. Once box to box. Now nothing more than a sitter, he might not even get in yet.
Coutinho - CM or winger? Think you lot like to refer to him as a 'play maker'.
Markovic - squad player rather than a starter for me.
Henderson - decent. Has to be now Gerrard is on the wane.
Even the Italy game where people were lauding him. What did he produce? Rooney who many people slaughtered was England's most productive player at the World Cup.
Sterling was decent but not great nor even good just decent at the World Cup IMO.
Heck, Ronaldo had a below par World Cup. It's not the only judge of a player. Regardless of what Sterling did in Brazil (which wasn't terrible) he had an extremely good season last year given his age. Not many teenagers would get ahead of him right now.
Point is, he's not average.
Point is, he's not average.
Neither was a young Joe Cole or Theo Walcott. As kids that burst onto the scene they looked as if they were going to be world beaters. Doesn't always happen. They were better than average, but you couldn't classify them as class either. Cole never reached his potential and Walcott is still plugging away, but it won't happen for him now. Early days for Sterling. You can't guarantee he'll become magnificent Pickles.
If he develops as he has done so far, then he'll be brilliant. Obviously something could go wrong and he could end up like Walcott. He's much more intelligent than Walcott though so that bodes very well. Sterling is already a very good player who was our main attacking threat during the run in.
The point is the poster called them average purely because they are Liverpool players.
I don't see how anyone can judge Markovic for example when he hasn't played for us yet.
To call the likes of Sterling and Sturridge average bearing in mind their performances last season is odd.
Lots of players didn't have great world cups, yet don't get labelled the same way.
Several comments on this thread about Markovic and Can - from people who haven't seen either of them play, and so far for LFC they have about 20mins game time. Let's give them a chance maybe?
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Correct, which is why I haven't done so. I've also not attempted to look for selected comparisons to portray him as a potential flash in the pan rather than a player who has already shown that he is very well suited to the demands of the league.
Fact is, all I've read on here is that Januzaj has a higher ceiling with greater potential. It appears such caution about the perils of not fulfilling potential doesn't apply to him.
I seem to remember Valencia having a similar impact on our attacking threat in his first season after signing. It was short lived. In fact Barney, Tony V was better for us in his first season at OT then Sterling was for you last year. Cast thy mind back to Valencia's first season, he was quality. Skinning players, quality deliveries and chipping in with the odd goal. You can't guarantee another brilliant season from any player.
Sterling looks good, but so do plenty of other young players, who end up not quite cutting the mustard. Feel free to put all your faith into Sterling though now yer main man has sleached off. This season will be the acid test for the lad, can he perform miracles in an average looking team is the big question.
I think RVP, Rooney and Mata will frighten opponents more.
I think Costa, Fabregas and Hazard will frighten opponents more.
I think Silva, Aguero and Toure will frighten opponents more.
I think Ozi and Sanchez will frighten opponents more.
I think it's fair to say neither Sturridge, Sterling or Gerrard are on the level of those players this coming season.
Liverpool are reliant on another team under performing or Rodgers' working miracles again. He did it last season therefore it stands to reason he can get over 80 points again but I don't think it is that easy, we will see how much of a role the Suarez factor came to play in the form of last season.
You say that bearing in mind some of our performances last season, where we blew teams away at times? Playing some of the best football I have seen at Anfield for a very long time.
Who was top scorer out of all those players?
You base the United players in the hope the manager will turn things around, your 3 players didn't frighten many opponents last season.
Costa, how do we know he will be a success? Ozil started well last season but struggled at times with the pace and intensity of the English game.
The Suarez factor is relevant, we just don't know do we. As it stands Sturridge with Coutinho, Lallana, Markovic and Sterlng looks pretty good. Not sure why you quote Gerrard who will sit deep I assume.
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Sturridge scored more than ALL those players last season. Gerrard created more goals than ALL those players last season. Sterling's key stats were better than nearlyall those last season. Yet, apparently none of these have required quality to match them.
Liverpool are better positioned at the start of this season than last. A year older means those untried and unproven players are now tried and tested. They stepped up last season and outperformed better known names. Yet despite all this it appears that lazy comparisons still dominate the discourse as rival fans paint a team who finished on 84 points with 101 goals as average. I just hope opposition managers share your complacency.
How many of his goals were against the sides we'd have expected to beat anyway ? & how many of his goals were actually surplus to requirements in matches we won at a canter ? I think you'll find that a fair percentage of them fall into both categories. He didn't score once against any of the other top 4 sides. When we beat you at OT a few months ago, Suarez had a good game, but he wasn't the catalyst for how well we played. It was an all-round, strong team performance. No reason to believe we can't keep to that standard even without Luis Suarez.
I don't think Liverpool will be worse without Suarez. Different, yes. The dynamics of our game will change because we've got new players who will bring different things to the table. We'll now hopefully have a few players to come off the bench next season who might actually worry the opposition & cause them problems. Something we haven't had for a while.
I'm not trying to sugar-coat his departure, because he's 'now' one of the best in the world. But I've been around long enough not to get too emotional or excited about outgoings & incomings to my club. I've found that more often than not, things never quite turn out the way people expect. I've also found out, as you have for the past 20 years, that the manager has a far greater influence on a club's destiny than any single player.
You will never win any discussion regarding Liverpool with Liverpool fans. Whatever you say it will be because we are United fans and we only saying it because of it and that they are Liverpool. They loved to tell us all how they had the best players in certain positions even when they were finishing 6-7-8th and 20-30 points behind the winners. Is there any reason why we now think they are going to think otherwise? They think they have made it and can only get better despite losing the only world class player they had. They will always compare things to United and dismiss the Moyes effect. Last season is how you should now judge players that have been there and done it, more than once. United under performed and Liverpool over performed, its pretty simple really.
Liverpool had a very good season and played brilliant football at times but they over performed and had a lot going for them. They have good players that are playing in a system that suits them, you have to give Rodgers credit for that. Can they do it again? Without Suarez? I dont think they can, but they will be up there and there abouts the top 4 i should think.
I mean we had half of them playing for England and they were pretty much non-existent. Yes a lot of other players played badly too and the national team is not really a place to judge players as the same thing happens time and time again but you would think that these players that have played so well together all season would have something more about them with half of them playing in another team. None of the players they have signed concern anyone, they havent improved their first 11. The squad as a whole has improved which they needed to do though. As for what they have already, they are good players, thats it IMO
Sturridge - very good at times but i dont think he will continue in the same vein as last season.
Gerrard - clearly past and will play as he is their leader. He brings more than just playing but he maybe will become more of a squad player
Coutinho - Good player at times but has shown what we all said at the time, started well but faded and is inconsistent.
Sterling - Has been very good and has the potential to progress but he has had one good season.
Henderson - Does a good job in the system that suits him but he is not good enough to be anywhere near the England team.
Their signings so far are good players, Rodgers has bought in players that fit the system and should bed in pretty easily but they are not an improvement of what they already have.
How many more players are Liverpool looking to bring in? I here that £60m was the budget before suarez and other sales but can you really see them spending £150+? And who are they going to buy that will improver their first 11? They seem to just be filling their squad and that is as far as they are going.
Liverpool had a very good season and played brilliant football at times but they over performed and had a lot going for them. They have good players that are playing in a system that suits them, you have to give Rodgers credit for that. Can they do it again? Without Suarez? I dont think they can, but they will be up there and there abouts the top 4 i should think.
I mean we had half of them playing for England and they were pretty much non-existent. Yes a lot of other players played badly too and the national team is not really a place to judge players as the same thing happens time and time again but you would think that these players that have played so well together all season would have something more about them with half of them playing in another team. None of the players they have signed concern anyone, they havent improved their first 11. The squad as a whole has improved which they needed to do though. As for what they have already, they are good players, thats it IMO
Sturridge - very good at times but i dont think he will continue in the same vein as last season.
Gerrard - clearly past and will play as he is their leader. He brings more than just playing but he maybe will become more of a squad player
Coutinho - Good player at times but has shown what we all said at the time, started well but faded and is inconsistent.
Sterling - Has been very good and has the potential to progress but he has had one good season.
Henderson - Does a good job in the system that suits him but he is not good enough to be anywhere near the England team.
Their signings so far are good players, Rodgers has bought in players that fit the system and should bed in pretty easily but they are not an improvement of what they already have.
How many more players are Liverpool looking to bring in? I here that £60m was the budget before suarez and other sales but can you really see them spending £150+? And who are they going to buy that will improver their first 11? They seem to just be filling their squad and that is as far as they are going.
But you think United will?
Indeed, the greatest influence on any team overtime (for good or bad) comes from the manager. As departures go, United have suffered the most seismic change of any other club in the past 20 years when Fergie left. It was a disaster in their first season without him. The departure of Suarez from Liverpool is comparatively minuscule.
That wasn't my point. Liverpool have put in a lot of good team performances - similar to the one at Old Trafford - where Suarez hasn't been the key man. We even did exceptionally well during the period he was banned.
..Markovich...sturridge....Stirling
.......................Lallana.................
..........Gerrard............Henderson..
Looks pretty good to me... Well balanced and a very pacy attack
With back up like
...continho....lambert.....remy
......................can................
............lucas.........Allen.....
They look to have strength in depth to cope with the extra games plus suso might not be loaned out and he could be useful though I think another central midfielder would help to take the pressure off Gerrard.
It's the defence they need to sort though
Agger, sakho, skittle are all decent defenders but I feel they need another centreback who is better than decent to lead the defence and lovren if it happens could do that.
At full back I think flannaghan and Johnson can compete at right back and Enrique would be great back up if they could sign moreno.
Mignolet had a good season and they could either bring in some better back up or make reina sit on the bench for a year.
So if they do complete the much publicised deals for lovren and moreno plus can get a midfielder to back up Gerrard / Henderson (will Hughes?)
I think they will do very well next year.
With around 90 million in sales and presuming lovren (20) Hughes (10) moreno (15) on top of what they have spent there would only be around a net 20m spend which is more than paid for by the new pl deal and the cl
In short I think they will have another decent year and if we finish ahead of them we will almost certainly have qualified for next seasons cl
.......................Lallana.................
..........Gerrard............Henderson..
Looks pretty good to me... Well balanced and a very pacy attack
With back up like
...continho....lambert.....remy
......................can................
............lucas.........Allen.....
They look to have strength in depth to cope with the extra games plus suso might not be loaned out and he could be useful though I think another central midfielder would help to take the pressure off Gerrard.
It's the defence they need to sort though
Agger, sakho, skittle are all decent defenders but I feel they need another centreback who is better than decent to lead the defence and lovren if it happens could do that.
At full back I think flannaghan and Johnson can compete at right back and Enrique would be great back up if they could sign moreno.
Mignolet had a good season and they could either bring in some better back up or make reina sit on the bench for a year.
So if they do complete the much publicised deals for lovren and moreno plus can get a midfielder to back up Gerrard / Henderson (will Hughes?)
I think they will do very well next year.
With around 90 million in sales and presuming lovren (20) Hughes (10) moreno (15) on top of what they have spent there would only be around a net 20m spend which is more than paid for by the new pl deal and the cl
In short I think they will have another decent year and if we finish ahead of them we will almost certainly have qualified for next seasons cl
Yeah but United were horrendous on that day. I understand what you are saying but you were no where near as good without Suarez.
At the start of the season you got lucky against Stoke to win 1-0 after they missed a penalty. You beat Villa 1-0 in which you really didnt do much. Beat United 1-0 with an early Sturridge goal, United were poor and you lot just sat on the goal and did pretty much did nothing after that. You then drew with Swansea and lost to Southampton before beating Sunderland. You did well but you were far from good.
Yeah you put points on the board which turned out extremely useful afterwards, but 'exceptionally well' is pushing it.
One thing I did notice last season which shouldn't be underestimated is that as a rule, Liverpool started games fantastically. They scored early goals or took the lead many times. Probably an advantage of being so fresh with no Europe and no cup runs.
With Europe now as a distraction and without Suarez, it'll be interesting to see if they can repeat that. It'll be more difficult. Much as I can't stand Suarez, it goes without saying he was fantastic for them last season. The fact is even on his quieter games, his presence and reputation can often occupy two of the opposition players marking him, creating space for others. They've obviously lost that now.
I mentioned earlier this summer that I thought they were in danger of bringing too many players in, a little like Spurs did last summer. Whilst I appreciate that they need to improve the depth of the squad for the extra games this season, I still think they're taking a bit of a scattergun approach to it and I'm not sure the number of players they're bringing in and look like continuing to do so will all prove warranted. By the end of the window, they might have brought in 9-10 players, which is too many in my opinion.
As things stand, I think they'll undoubtedly challenge for the top four, but no more. I didn't think they'd finish second last year of course, but as their own Alan Hansen has often pointed out for years on end, doing something one season is one thing, sustaining it is the hard part.
With Europe now as a distraction and without Suarez, it'll be interesting to see if they can repeat that. It'll be more difficult. Much as I can't stand Suarez, it goes without saying he was fantastic for them last season. The fact is even on his quieter games, his presence and reputation can often occupy two of the opposition players marking him, creating space for others. They've obviously lost that now.
I mentioned earlier this summer that I thought they were in danger of bringing too many players in, a little like Spurs did last summer. Whilst I appreciate that they need to improve the depth of the squad for the extra games this season, I still think they're taking a bit of a scattergun approach to it and I'm not sure the number of players they're bringing in and look like continuing to do so will all prove warranted. By the end of the window, they might have brought in 9-10 players, which is too many in my opinion.
As things stand, I think they'll undoubtedly challenge for the top four, but no more. I didn't think they'd finish second last year of course, but as their own Alan Hansen has often pointed out for years on end, doing something one season is one thing, sustaining it is the hard part.
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As I said, it's nice you're putting a brave face on it but don't kid yourself - if I'd told you a few months ago that you'd sell Suarez and the two strikers you'd sign would be Rickie Lambert and Loic Remy, you'd have (somewhat fairly) accused me of being on a wind-up. Be honest, it's exactly the sort of thing someone from here would have made up to wind you up over the potential loss of Suarez (which you all denied would happen).
Now the 'wind-up' has actually come to pass, you're putting on a brace face and it's apparently 'excellent business' to sell your only star player and buy two strikers with only a fraction of his ability. There's not a chance in hell you'd have told me this was excellent business if, in May, I'd held it up to you as a vision of your summer.
Anyone get the feeling that they are not investing the Suarez transfer very well so far? Shades of Bale last summer all of this.
It's not purely a question of that though. Numerous comments on here writing us and the new additions off even before they have kicked a ball for us. We come on here to put our points across, of course Suarez leaving is relevant, however our squad/bench was very weak last season.
All we are saying is let's give our newer look squad time to settle in and not write off the likes of Lallana, Can & Markovic off as average signings when they haven't played for us, nor when some know little about them.
After all fairly sure we haven't labelled the likes of Herrera and Shaw the same way.
Not necessarily, our 2 big problems last was the clear lack of depth off the bench and conceding too many goals. The club cannot just go and buy a Suarez replacement just like that. The players that have come in would have joined anyway.
I am sure more additions will be made to make the strength of the squad better.
I think Markovich is a great buy
Remy for 6 million less than what Sunderland have offered for borini looks good business as does 4 for lambert and 10 for can seems good as well.
The 25 for Lallana looks excessive but it's the uk premium I suppose.
They could do with a centreback and fullback and if the reports of lovren and moreno prove true they would also be good buys (lovren possibly a tad expensive but again it's the pl experience premium)
I think it's roundly accepted that Liverpool massively over performed last season, couple that together with a huge run of luck in the injury department and with all of the other big teams having a change of management leaving you only Arsenal to do an Arsenal, that league title was there for the taking and it was for want of a better wording bottled by your captain.
You got through with a weak bench due to injuries not coming at the wrong times and your forwards firing when the time was asked. Defensively the season was a massive disaster really, and that has yet to be properly addressed.
The leagues best performing forward has gone and with it a lot of the ability to paper over the defensive cracks.
Rivals have strengthened significantly, Arsenal have quite a daunting attacking core, Chelsea will come strong with Mourinho, City will be there abouts and United have rid themselves of their achilles heel in midfield and management, couple all that together with a hugely busy schedule of games and I don't think it's to harsh to wonder if Liverpool need to be a damn sight stronger than they currently are to contend. It's a very tough time because your basically required to do a spurs but from a relatively weaker position (squad wise) than when they lost Bale.
For a club with title ambitions they are below average, for a club with top 4 ambitions they are about average, for a club with top 7 ambitions they are slightly above average.
The title odds tell their own story...
Chelsea 2/1
City 5/2
United 11/2
Arsenal 13/2
Liverpool 11/1
Chelsea 2/1
City 5/2
United 11/2
Arsenal 13/2
Liverpool 11/1
They strengthened significantly last summer too. It's all bit too simplistic to say that a team will improve because they've spent more money, & bought (on paper) better players. Football doesn't always work like that. Last season was an ideal case in point.
& where do you get this notion that our squad is weaker than the Spurs side that finished 5th on 72 points in Bales final season ? Even with Suarez gone, & not taking into account the new signings, we still have an established attacking trio of Sturridge, Sterling, & Couthinho. Those 3 on their own will cause more problems, & score more goals, than the likes of Adebayor, Dempsey, Defoe, & Lennon.
Seeing as you finished 7th last season, does that mean most of the players Moyes inherited were 'average'.
Would any one of these players make Chelsea's, City's, or Arsenal's first XI?
Don't think a single one would. Looks pretty average to me for a side with title ambitions.
Obviously my post touched a nerve. Care to address the post itself rather than the irrelevant information you just posted?