What a load of bollocks, if we are ahead of them after 38 games we deserved it.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
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What a load of bollocks, if we are ahead of them after 38 games we deserved it.
Hardly, the nonsense that if you're higher in the league table you've deserved it is not something I agree with at all. Over 38 games a 2-point swing could be based on luck even more than in an one-off game.
I don't believe in luck, atleast not after 38 PL games. You win some, you lose some, to some extent this will most likely balance eachother out. I believe if you are really better and played a better season than others, you will be more than 2 points up. Pool may be playing better than us now, but they wasted to much points in the beginning of the season. With 11 games and 33 points to earn, all teams have all the chances to get themselves together and earn their spot, without the factor luck.
So, I assume you calculated all the luck and unluck for all the teams in the table?
Luck doesn't have a significant impact over 38 games. At the end of the season, the team that finishes third or fourth will deserve it. It's not like Arsenal or Liverpool have been playing superb football for the last 8 months.
2 points is a 1-game swing. If you don't believe you can be lucky one more time than your oppositon then fine.
There are 90 minutes in a game of football, if you concede a goal in one unlucky second it cannot bear over the outcome of game either.
No, I watch them play, I think Arsenal and Liverpool have had far more very good performances than us.
Saw that stat yesterday, it's incredible. Rodgers really will cement himself as one of the top managers in the league if he gets Liverpool into the top 4 which is looking more and more likely with each league game.
And they havent been lucky. We've the only club that has been lucky? If we get 4th it will be deserved just as it will be with arsenal and liverpool.
I agree with Sarni - this 'luck balances out over a season' is BS. What if that 'luck' (e.g. referee makes an horrendous error or two) goes against you in the head to head (e.g. United vs Arsenal) ? Losing instead of winning could cost you Top 4.
Luck exists otherwise Napoleon wouldn't have promoted all those generals on the basis of it. A clearer set of examples were little Stevie G's stumble last season, the Ref incident on Saturday, the post for City yesterday, and so forth. Most fans in the 70s believed Arsenal were a 'lucky' team. It will be a factor, probably more so in the last stages of the season, when incidents are magnified, than earlier when they will be forgotten. Irrespective of my supposed 'bias' I wouldn't want luck to be the deciding factor in the final games as it clearly was last season.
Let's agree to disagree then. IMO you cannot be lucky if you finish 8-10 points ahead of the other team, it's unquestionable, a few points swing could easily be decided by luck and over 38 games there are so many factors that it's very easy to grind your way to a higher place on luck.
I think luck definitely exist, but there is also no use crying about it. If you want to be best, you have to be good enough to compensate.
Fwiw, I think you guys are quite jammy - It's rare to see such a poorly playing team winning so many points. I wouldn't expect you to be able to keep it up.
We were lucky earlier in the season with some of the points we grabbed against shit teams that we managed to be even shitter than. Don't think we're particularly lucky right now. We're playing well and its paying dividends.
Fwiw, I think you guys are quite jammy - It's rare to see such a poorly playing team winning so many points. I wouldn't expect you to be able to keep it up.
We were lucky earlier in the season with some of the points we grabbed against shit teams that we managed to be even shitter than. Don't think we're particularly lucky right now. We're playing well and its paying dividends.
You need to put in more work to finish higher in the league than you do in an one-off cup game, obviously, but that doesn't mean the luck doesn't play the part.
Of course, if you're convincingly better than the other team you need to be able to outbalance the other team's luck.
We won’t but to be fair, I wouldn’t say we have been extremely lucky ourselves. More a case of just very consistent at home and tepid away. The reason we are still fourth is Liverpool’s poor form at the start of the season and Southampton starting to lose theirs. Liverpool and Arsenal have both picked up their form while ours has just either stayed the same or gotten slightly worse.
Well true but its strange to say that if Liverpool and Arsenal will be few points ahead it will be deserved and if we'll be few points ahead it will just be luck on our side.
Liverpool FC have suffered a major blow with the news that Jordon Ibe will be out for up to a month with knee ligament damage.
The 19-year-old winger hurt his lateral collateral ligament (LCL) in last Thursday's Europa League exit at the hands of Besiktas in Istanbul.
Scans have now confirmed the Reds' worst fears and they expect him to be sidelined for three to four weeks.
The 19-year-old winger hurt his lateral collateral ligament (LCL) in last Thursday's Europa League exit at the hands of Besiktas in Istanbul.
Scans have now confirmed the Reds' worst fears and they expect him to be sidelined for three to four weeks.
Swings and roundabouts, there hasn't been that much luck determining either us or the Scouses since the start of this season. Most of the mediocre results we ground out this season was against sides that simply shut up shop and we got the odd goal or two. Those sides that have wanted to win against us like Swansea kept going or Leicester staged a great fight back. I was surprised about the Scouses at OT with their lacklustre performance. There was no luck in Falcao's turn of speed that led to a penalty or the Scouse goals at weekend, which pretty much heralded in the the 'squeaky bum' months. From now on everything changes and all the fickleness of football will be on display and cases of luck exposed out of all proportion.
I don't think we'll be a few points ahead. If we are then it'll defintiely be on merit as that'd need us to get around 28 points from remaining 11 games at least IMO.
I was bigging him up when Rodgers recalled him and am truly gutted he won't be tearing down that right side for us. Probably won't see him until the summer just to be sure he's over that injury.
Good thing we're down to one game a week from hereon, Markovic and Moreno will have to continue in those RWB positions with Sterling and Manquillo filling in occasionally.
It's only 4 weeks (tops). He will likely miss 4 PL games and 2 FAC matches (assuming) and be eased back in for a couple of matches. Think we'll see him again over the last 5-6 games.I was bigging him up when Rodgers recalled him and am truly gutted he won't be tearing down that right side for us. Probably won't see him until the summer just to be sure he's over that injury.
Good thing we're down to one game a week from hereon, Markovic and Moreno will have to continue in those RWB positions with Sterling and Manquillo filling in occasionally.
Average age of Liverpool's side yesterday was 23.6 - City's was 28. We also have players such as Flanagan (22) Ibe (19) & Manquillo (20) who are all capable enough to play in the 1st team.
He likes em young does Brendan.
He likes em young does Brendan.
The Reds starting line-up averaged just 23.6 yrs old vs City. Without Sakho, Ibe and Sturridge of course.
The workrate stats were dominated by three Reds – Adam Lallana top of the pile with 11.9km, Joe Allen 11.6km, Jordan Henderson 11.4km .. and Coutinho also ran 10.6kms.
The workrate stats were dominated by three Reds – Adam Lallana top of the pile with 11.9km, Joe Allen 11.6km, Jordan Henderson 11.4km .. and Coutinho also ran 10.6kms.
So we're doing what Pochettino wanted to at Spurs. Build a team of super-fit athletes to take advantage nearer the end of games.
It seems the best way to do that is play youngsters as they have boundless energy. Who would have thunk it? (Rodgers)
It seems the best way to do that is play youngsters as they have boundless energy. Who would have thunk it? (Rodgers)
Agree with this, although I'd disagree with the implication that we don't deserve to finish above liverpool on current merit.
Earlier in the season we were unlucky on several occasions, being the better team but poor decisions and fortune going against us (Burnley, Leicester, Sunderland, West Brom, Spurs - even Swansea last week).
Whereas Liverpool had several games where they undeservedly won points (QPR & So'ton particularly they should have lost and Swansea arguably deserved a point), but I can't think of a single game where they should have won but were denied by poor decisions or luck.
Our undeserved points are more than balanced out by poor decisions and bad luck earlier in the season, Liverpool not so much.
Not to worry, Stevie G will be back soon.
The fact they could be above us on Wednesday night is a real concern...
Everton at home, no? Including Southampton last week is useless because you lot have had multiple games like that were you deserved nothing and got away with a win, Arsenal and Southampton away for example. And if I remember correctly, you were poor against Burnley and threw it away yourself against Leicester, albeit alongside some awful refereeing.
When you end up in the top four after 38 games, you deserve to be there and about. But the difference between fourth and fifth can easily be down to luck.
I am sure if you looked through all the games there would be points were both Liverpool and United probably deserved more out of a game.
It's not always down to fortune and luck, you don't concede 5 goals away at Leicester purely because decisions don't go your way.
I haven't seen a lot of United games but from the comments on here, a lot has been down to bad defending, and there a few moments especially early in the season (again I think), where De Gea saved the day for you.
Guess not. But those decisions were an immense part of it.
I meant So'ton earlier in the season for Liverpool . As I said it roughly balances itself out for United, for every Leicester and Burnley there's an Arsenal or So'ton away.
However for Liverpool I can't think of any games they deserved to win but lost, whereas there's at least 2-3 where the reverse happened.
I can't think if any liverpool games where they lost but deserved to win. I agree Leicester was a capitulation, but it was one initiated by horrendous refereeing.
I don't agree De Gea saving the day is luck, he's a world class keeper and our best player. It'd be like saying Sterling saved the day for Liverpool Aug - Dec.
At the end of the day whoever finishes higher deserves it. Certainly the last gap leveller in the Derby springs to mind as points dropped where a few decisions on another day could have gone in our favour, handball in the area, Barry maybe lucky to stay on the pitch, But it's a subject we could look at every game and talk forever on.
Hull at home , 2 very good penalty shouts in a game we dominated - but non LFC fans would say gritty Hull hung on for a draw. Depends on your viewpoint.
Fair enough on De Gea - I wasn't attempting to call that lucky.
Hull at home , 2 very good penalty shouts in a game we dominated - but non LFC fans would say gritty Hull hung on for a draw. Depends on your viewpoint.
Fair enough on De Gea - I wasn't attempting to call that lucky.
Agree with most of that. My main gripe was the implication that if United finish fourth by a point or 2 we'd been lucky. That mIght be the case if we are lucky in the next 11 games, but as it stands United are 4th on merit.
At the end of the day the league table generally doesn't lie, United being 4th means they are doing a lot right.
We have been up and down, especially in Europe (mostly down!), but are putting a good run together now in the league so watch out for us!
I predicted Liverpool would get 8 points from the last 15 and we'd be out of sight... they got 13. It's going to be insanely close.
Very lucky against Southampton in the game before last.
But you are obviously playing well. You won't keep that pace up for the rest of the season, but you wouldn't need to to secure a top four spot. Our form will need to improve to stay ahead of you.
Personally I don't think so. Of course this is going to sound like Scouse bias but I went through all of the fixtures for every one of the Top 7 (there used to be some newspapers that had this final table prediction on their sites but I haven't seen it this season) and IMHO (and trying to be as unbiased as I possibly can) I see LFC and Arsenal finishing on ca. 72/73 points, Saints on 69, United on 67/68 and Spurs on 64/65. However Saints' current form may see them fail to achieve their projected total.
The reason I think it is so difficult for United now is that :
a) they are still not showing great form on the pitch, great results yes, but not playing so well as a team and that could make their matches against other Top 7 teams (3 at home and 2 away) very difficult
b) they have the most difficult run-in (see below)
c) LFC, Arsenal and Spurs either are, or shortly will be, out of Europe thereby negating the advantage United have held all season (and as we had last).
United have an horrendous end to the season with even their 'easy' matches being away, with the sole exception of Villa, or against teams hitting form (WBA at home and Palace & Hull away when a point could be the difference between relegation or survival for Hull) :
Home : Spurs, Villa, City, WBA, Arsenal
Away : Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Palace, Hull
Of course I'm hoping we beat United at Anfield, if United were to take the 3 points there then the impetus would be with them and against us. Not that I expect United supporters to agree with this assessment but it's how I see it.
You also have to take into account Utd have usually looked poor against lesser sides, but much better and more organized against the better sides. I'm still annoyed at Smalling's brainfart in the derby and at not beating Spurs when we should've, but overall our record must be decent, and we look fine in those matches. So I think that kind of affects any prediction you're going to try to make.