Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

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pratyush_utd said:
We are paying what Ajax wanted for Martinez. If they didn't want to sell then they should have told us that he is not for sale for any price. Think when Arsenal started bidding for him, we got in and offered what Ajax wanted. Bit surprising that Ajax are now refusing to sell him.

These reports that Ajax are angry with United in destabilizing their player is bit odd considering player was ready to leave to Arsenal before we came in. Same goes for Antony.

Would still prefer amicable solution to this as our relationship with Ajax has been pretty good.
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We haven’t offered what they want. We’ve offered 50 made up by a lower base and more add-ons. They want a base guaranteed at 50 or closer to it at least
 
If this comes off, who are we expecting the first choice back 2 to be next season?
 
Sied said:
If this comes off, who are we expecting the first choice back 2 to be next season?
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Exactly what I was thinking about as well. It’s a bit of a risk for Martinez to make this move. He needs to get ahead of two out of Varane, Maguire and Lindelof. If he fails to make an impact quickly, he risks ending up fourth choice. Last season Varane struggled with injuries but maybe he’ll have a better season now with a proper pre-season. Then I don’t think anybody gets ahead of him. Maguire and Lindelof are seldom injured but that’s the players he will compete with (Maguire missed 20 games and Lindelof 15 games in the last five seasons due to injuries or illness).
 
Sied said:
If this comes off, who are we expecting the first choice back 2 to be next season?
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Martinez + Varane/Maguire. I would assume Varane would be ahead of Maguire in the pecking order but you never know, particularly if his fitness issues continue.
 
Ajax are entitled to stand up for themselves while their team is being dismantled to be fair. We could have got Martinez and Antony for cheaper had we started negotiations before Bayern raided them for Gravenberch and Mazraoui. Our lack of proactivity contributes to us paying over the odds in most cases.
 
Due to Antony's contactual status, it wouldn't have mattered if we started negotiating for him months ago, he's got ages left on his deal. Comparing his transfer with Gravenberch and Mazraoui is illogical.
 
Blood Mage said:
Ajax are entitled to stand up for themselves while their team is being dismantled to be fair. We could have got Martinez and Antony for cheaper had we started negotiations before Bayern raided them for Gravernberch and Mazraoui. Our lack of proactivity contributes to us paying over the odds in most cases.
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When you mean cheaper, you mean like 65m instead of 70m? They sold Haller for 34.5m, so I don't think it matters because both Martinez and Antony are rated far above Haller.
 
Blood Mage said:
Ajax are entitled to stand up for themselves while their team is being dismantled to be fair. We could have got Martinez and Antony for cheaper had we started negotiations before Bayern raided them for Gravernberch and Mazraoui. Our lack of proactivity contributes to us paying over the odds in most cases.
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Yes the player on a free that Bayern signed and the player with one year on his deal that Ajax were always selling this year who Bayern had wrapped up before we’d even hired ETH. Bad Manchester United for not going for ETH targets before ETH was hired. Their price points have nothing to do with us not being proactive - it’s fairly simple - Martinez and Antony are under long contracts and Ajax didn’t plan to sell them this year. Arsenal also want Martinez and thus there’s an auction. Yet again people blaming the club for no fecking reason.
 
A-man said:
Exactly what I was thinking about as well. It’s a bit of a risk for Martinez to make this move. He needs to get ahead of two out of Varane, Maguire and Lindelof. If he fails to make an impact quickly, he risks ending up fourth choice. Last season Varane struggled with injuries but maybe he’ll have a better season now with a proper pre-season. Then I don’t think anybody gets ahead of him. Maguire and Lindelof are seldom injured but that’s the players he will compete with (Maguire missed 20 games and Lindelof 15 games in the last five seasons due to injuries or illness).
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I’m not convinced at all by Varane. Really did not think he was particularly good the past two years at Real Madrid.

My impression last summer was that Madrid was more than willing to give Alaba a good contract, but not Varane. It also seemed we were the only side really interested in Varane.

Furthermore, watching him last season he has clearly lost his agility and pace. Something that used to be his big strength when he was younger. Add the injury problems on top, and I really struggle to see that he will be a first choice. Probably one of the most overrated signings we have ever made.

I think Martinez will be the number one CB regardless of what happens. Because he will help us implement EtH-style from day one. And that will be of bigger importance than individual quality.

If, and it is a big if, we could sign Frenkie, Martinez and Antony we would, including Donny and Malacia, have five outfield players who know his philosophy well. That could be a real quick fix for EtH and make it alot easier for the rest of the team to gel aswell.
 
Blood Mage said:
Ajax are entitled to stand up for themselves while their team is being dismantled to be fair. We could have got Martinez and Antony for cheaper had we started negotiations before Bayern raided them for Gravenberch and Mazraoui. Our lack of proactivity contributes to us paying over the odds in most cases.
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Bayern snapped up those players before we hired Ten Hag.
Utd also would have had Timber instead of Martinez by now if LVG wasn't a bitter old man so circumstances made us switch to Martinez who asked to leave, whom Ajax placed a price over and which Utd matched only for Ajax to switch goal posts like a bunch of flip flops. How dare Utd actually do things smoothly only for the selling party to switch goal posts!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe we could have approached Antony a little earlier but Ajax people and maybe you too would see it as "disrespectful" buying two Ajax players at the same time when Bayern do it without ANYONE batting an eyelid
 
Sied said:
If this comes off, who are we expecting the first choice back 2 to be next season?
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I mean, it has to be Varane and Martinez considering they would be (on paper at least) our two best CB's. This would put Maguire as back and a rotation player, which is where he should be.
 
Can we just sign him first then worry about who he replaces
 
andersj said:
I’m not convinced at all by Varane. Really did not think he was particularly good the past two years at Real Madrid.

My impression last summer was that Madrid was more than willing to give Alaba a good contract, but not Varane. It also seemed we were the only side really interested in Varane.

Furthermore, watching him last season he has clearly lost his agility and pace. Something that used to be his big strength when he was younger. Add the injury problems on top, and I really struggle to see that he will be a first choice. Probably one of the most overrated signings we have ever made.

I think Martinez will be the number one CB regardless of what happens. Because he will help us implement EtH-style from day one. And that will be of bigger importance than individual quality.

If, and it is a big if, we could sign Frenkie, Martinez and Antony we would, including Donny and Malacia, have five outfield players who know his philosophy well. That could be a real quick fix for EtH and make it alot easier for the rest of the team to gel aswell.
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I agree with all you wrote here. But Varane could still bounce back, not to his best days, but still enough to be number one. With a midfield who is able to control matches, all our CBs would look better.
Second is that Martinez is unproven in the PL and we have seen several players struggling with that move. If he fails initially, there will be a lot of pressure to replace him with. Varane/Maguire/Lindelof. That’s where I see the risk for him with this move.

The intention must be to get players who are already onboard when it comes to EtH‘s style of football, which also would include shipping others out. I personally struggle to see how Maguire, even at his best, would fit in to that. If Martinez can handle PL it would be a great signing for EtH.
 
Blood Mage said:
Ajax are entitled to stand up for themselves while their team is being dismantled to be fair. We could have got Martinez and Antony for cheaper had we started negotiations before Bayern raided them for Gravenberch and Mazraoui. Our lack of proactivity contributes to us paying over the odds in most cases.
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Sorry but no and no. Gravenberch came out in the spring already, saying that he is leaving this summer and he is very humbled and thankful for the club and hope they get a decent fee for him - he had 1-year contract left. Mazraoui wanted to leave last year already but was convinced to stay, but his contract ran out this summer and he left for free.

None of these deals have anything to do with our pursuit of Martinez and Antony/Timber*. In terms of those players, our interests weren't even mentioned as we appointed Ten Hag, which meant we knew the deals were done and the players had their new clubs picked already.
 
lsd said:
Can we just sign him first then worry about who he replaces
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Probably need to have an idea though. Before we bang 50m on a short slow player new to a fast physical league.
 
RkkMan said:
@Daslogisch
Since you think Utd and Ten Hag are being disrespect thoughts?
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Some people really don't realize how transfers work. Every club is trying to pay as little as needed for a player. Nobody is finding that disrespectful. It's the fact that Ten Hag seems to be raiding Ajax is disrespectful.
 
Terranova said:
Some people really don't realize how transfers work. Every club is trying to pay as little as needed for a player. Nobody is finding that disrespectful. It's the fact that Ten Hag seems to be raiding Ajax is disrespectful.
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There is nothing disrespectful about that, it's not like players are tapped and asked to run down their contract.
 
hellhunter said:
Let's hope our management handles things a bit more thorough
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You do realise we are not management so I was not speaking as if I had just personally spent 50 million on him

It's therefore pointless arguing about where he will play and who he replaces when he is not actually signed yet.
 
Has he shown up for preseason yet? A part of me thinks if the reports are true and he really wants out he won’t show up
 
DWelbz19 said:
Has he shown up for preseason yet? A part of me thinks if the reports are true and he really wants out he won’t show up
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I would hope he doesn't do that as it's really not a good insight into the professionalism of a player. I would rather see him do his job and let the club do ours to recruit him.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Damn it.
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He pretty much only "missed" 1 day and with missed i mean they didn't release a photo of him, so he probably showed up anyway, since there are no reports of him actually not showing up
 
I'm glad he's turned up to get on with his job. I think players who down tools and behave like petulant children to get their own way are dick heads and should be avoided. He can still respectfully request that Ajax listen to our offer and allow him to leave
 
Good. He is forcing the move through. He shows a sign of determination. There is no point in playing nice when a career is on the line.
 
Terranova said:
Some people really don't realize how transfers work. Every club is trying to pay as little as needed for a player. Nobody is finding that disrespectful. It's the fact that Ten Hag seems to be raiding Ajax is disrespectful.
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ETH is raiding Ajax with money, though. It’s not like he’s kidnapping Ajax players. Not disagreeing with you, btw. People also seem to misunderstand the concept of buying and selling, where Ajax will be left with an insane pile of cash if these deals go through.
 
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Funny how attitudes to players change when it's to the benefit of your own team
 
Mickeza said:
Yes the player on a free that Bayern signed and the player with one year on his deal that Ajax were always selling this year who Bayern had wrapped up before we’d even hired ETH. Bad Manchester United for not going for ETH targets before ETH was hired. Their price points have nothing to do with us not being proactive - it’s fairly simple - Martinez and Antony are under long contracts and Ajax didn’t plan to sell them this year. Arsenal also want Martinez and thus there’s an auction. Yet again people blaming the club for no fecking reason.
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Posting without thinking (PWT) the new mini-pandemic at the Caf.
 
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