Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

[golden_blunder]

Quite surprising as this is the fee they allegedly wanted.

It’s not though. They want 50m guaranteed fee. We’ve offered 50m but that also includes the add ons which may never be met

 

[Xaviboy]

Then next summer will leave Ajax for less to another club what normally happens.

 

[TheReligion]

It’s not though. They want 50m guaranteed fee. We’ve offered 50m but that also includes the add ons which may never be met

My mistake. I assume we will go again then.

 

[Cassidy]

Right but Martinez isn't perfect either and he's clearly not for sale.

Nothing to do with what I posted.
However, if you want to go there, Torres isn't good enough to compliment the already non aggressive bunch of CBs we have at the club.
So maybe if you suggested an alternative that was it would be a conversation. Clearly the manager doesn't rate Torres, or our scouts for that matter

 

[golden_blunder]

Right but Martinez isn't perfect either and he's clearly not for sale.

Everyone has a price. We just haven’t met theirs

 

[DWelbz19]

So far he has signed 0 Ajax players?

 

[golden_blunder]

My mistake. I assume we will go again then.

I’d assume so and I’d assume we’re not that far apart

 

[TheReligion]

I’d assume so and I’d assume we’re not that far apart

Wonder if there’s truth to the joint Antony bid

 

[Trex]

It's only worth getting rinsed on price for a proven quantity in my opinion, someone who offers an almost guaranteed success.

To me there's still a huge question mark over whether he's likely to be our long term first choice centre back, I really don't think it's worth getting ripped off on a player of his profile.

Exactly this bid is already very big for someone coming from the Dutch league our last two signings from that league are Depay and VDB and they were stars there, let's not get carried away here.

 

[Trex]

We shouldn't go any higher in my opinion, is there any guarantee he'll be a starter here?

 

[DWelbz19]

If they are rejecting €50m (a figure that was said to be enough in the first instance) we should walk away. I personally think our three first choice CBs are alright for another season, which may be a bit of a hot take.

 

[Trex]

Everyone has a price. We just haven’t met theirs

Is it worth meeting though

 

[Berbaclass]

Bit of an odd statement considering that we haven't signed any of their players yet. Talking to Ajax surely isn't that big of deal either.

Yeah agree. Weird statement

 

[TheReligion]

If they are rejecting €50m (a figure that was said to be enough in the first instance) we should walk away. I personally think our three first choice CBs are alright for another season, which may be a bit of a hot take.

I think the issue is the distribution and how comfortable Martinez is at joining the midfield.

It is obviously key to how Ten Hag wants to play. Are Varane, Lindelof and Maguire up to it? Possibly but if not it would really impact on how we play and adapt to his style.

 

[Trex]

If they are rejecting €50m (a figure that was said to be enough in the first instance) we should walk away. I personally think our three first choice CBs are alright for another season, which may be a bit of a hot take.

not a hot take for me.

 

[Rolaholic]

Exactly this bid is already very big for someone coming from the Dutch league our last two signings from that league are Depay and VDB and they were stars there, let's not get carried away here.

That bid would be the third most expensive sale ever from the Eredivisie, sounds like they just don't want to sell period or not to us.

The other comments are strange when we haven't bought a single of their players yet this season...

Interested in how that's gonna affect the dressing room with keeping wantaways

 

[JJ12]

We shouldn't go any higher in my opinion, is there any guarantee he'll be a starter here?

You’d have to ask the gaffer, none of us idiots know

 

[Cassidy]

If they are rejecting €50m (a figure that was said to be enough in the first instance) we should walk away. I personally think our three first choice CBs are alright for another season, which may be a bit of a hot take.

Which one of them will be the main one to beat pressing forwards with the ball?

 

[golden_blunder]

Is it worth meeting though

He’s better than Ake in my opinion and look what’s he’s going for

 

[cyberman]

We haven’t signed anybody! Bayern signed two last summer and tried for Timber for feck sake.
We can’t bid more than 50m. Go after Torres or someone, we need to stop having clubs laughing at us like this

 

[DWelbz19]

Which one of them will be the main one to beat pressing forwards with the ball?

Are world class coaches incapable of coaching that into our players? If so, fair enough. Next question therefore — is Martinez the only player capable of doing this on the market for the price we will pay? If so, fair enough again. Crack on with the signing.

 

[golden_blunder]

If they are rejecting €50m (a figure that was said to be enough in the first instance) we should walk away. I personally think our three first choice CBs are alright for another season, which may be a bit of a hot take.

We didn’t offer that as the guaranteed price though. We offered a lower guaranteed price + add ons which isn’t the same.

and do you really want to go into another season with Varane, Lindelof and Maguire who not only were shit individually and collectively but were also unable to stay fit and available for very long? Lindelofs back problem is still there, Sweden dropped him from the squad this summer because off it. Varane doesnt look like he can last a full season anytime. Which leaves us Maguire.

we NEED another cb. And this lad will go straight in.

 

[golden_blunder]

We haven’t signed anybody! Bayern signed two last summer and tried for Timber for feck sake.
We can’t bid more than 50m. Go after Torres or someone, we need to stop having clubs laughing at us like this

We haven’t bid 50!

 

[Cassidy]

Are world class coaches incapable of coaching that into our players? If so, fair enough. Next question therefore — is Martinez the only player capable of doing this on the market for the price we will pay? If so, fair enough again. Crack on with the signing.

The players need to have the base for it first, maybe Lindelof out of the 3, Varane isn't comfortable enough and Maguire is not physically agile enough.

The next question is irrelevant to my post, I did not say we shouldn't sign someone else, I disputed the 3 we have being good enough

 

[El Jefe]

Has anyone other than Verweij reported that we made an improved bid of €50m. I know he's reliable for Ajax but seems strange how none of the English journos or even Romano seemed to confirm the bid.

 

[sullydnl]

If they are rejecting €50m (a figure that was said to be enough in the first instance) we should walk away. I personally think our three first choice CBs are alright for another season, which may be a bit of a hot take.

Think the issue is more that two of those three CBs are possibly unreliable in terms of fitness. And the next two (Jones and Bailly) are unreliable in terms of fitness and unwanted by the club.

At which point from a squad composition POV a CB signing with Jones/Bailly leaving makes sense. And if you're going to make a CB signing, you might as well secure one who improves on the alright first choice CB options you mention. Particularly as the €50mish price point isn't exactly exorbitant for a Martinez/Torres. We're talking about roughly the same pricepoint being cited for Nathan Ake at the moment, for example.

And that's without going into whether all our current CBs suit ETH's system or not, when he may have decided they don't.

 

[Fortitude]

Which part of: the manager wants him and feels he is intrinsic to the way he wants to play football do people not understand?

What is the point of naming numerous players who might not fit with his vision nor have the flexibility - and perhaps the character - he seems hellbent on bringing to the club?

How many players are out there who can do what Martinez does and have his characteristics, is surely the question?

 

[DWelbz19]

We didn’t offer that as the guaranteed price though. We offered a lower guaranteed price + add ons which isn’t the same.

and do you really want to go into another season with Varane, Lindelof and Maguire who not only were shit individually and collectively but were also unable to stay fit and available for very long? Lindelofs back problem is still there, Sweden dropped him from the squad this summer because off it. Varane doesnt look like he can last a full season anytime. Which leaves us Maguire.

we NEED another cb. And this lad will go straight in.

Do I want to? Not particularly. Would I be okay with us doing so for one season considering we have a limited budget and there are other key positions to target? Absolutely. You do raise a good point about Lindelof’s back, though. That is something I had forgotten and has been ongoing for a while.

The players need to have the base for it first, maybe Lindelof out of the 3, Varane isn't comfortably enough and Maguire is not physically agile enough

Isn’t the main remit of Frenkie de Jong to come deep, collect the ball and act as a ”libero”?

 

[Idxomer]

We haven’t bid 50!

Because he isn't worth that and clubs meet in the middle all the time.

 

[Cassidy]

Do I want to? Not particularly. Would I be okay with us doing so for one season considering we have a limited budget and there are other key positions to target? Absolutely. You do raise a good point about Lindelof’s back, though. That is something I had forgotten and has been ongoing for a while.

Isn’t the main remit of Frenkie de Jong to come deep, collect the ball and act as a ”libero”?

He demands the same from the CBs, one player alone cannot beat a press, which is why he also brought in Malacia, another who is super comfortable on the ball and under pressure.
Ideally the whole back line needs to be. Bear in mind De Jong has freedom to roam and will not just be sitting in front of the defence

 

[Trex]

He’s better than Ake in my opinion and look what’s he’s going for

I consider signing a player from the Dutch league a great risk considering Depay, Donny, Davinson Sanchez, Jansen, Klasen, Berguis were stars in this league in recent time.
The gap in quality is huge and not worth it if you're paying premium prices.

That bid would be the third most expensive sale ever from the Eredivisie, sounds like they just don't want to sell period or not to us.

The other comments are strange when we haven't bought a single of their players yet this season...

Interested in how that's gonna affect the dressing room with keeping wantaways

We better start looking at other market before we're scrapping around on deadline day.

 

[TheReligion]

I consider signing a player from the Dutch league a great risk considering Depay, Donny, Davinson Sanchez, Jansen, Klasen, Berguis were stars in this league in recent time.
The gap in quality is huge and not worth it if you're paying premium prices.

We better start looking at other market before we're scrapping around on deadline day.

Isn’t the window open for another 2 months?

 

[Trex]

He demands the same from the CBs, one player alone cannot beat a press, which is why he also brought in Malacia, another who is super comfortable on the ball and under pressure.
Ideally the whole back line needs to be. Bear in mind De Jong has freedom to roam and will not just be sitting in front of the defence

The first time I noticed Maguire he was at Hull in a game against Mourinho United, he was doing this the entire game causes us all kinds of trouble, I remember they broke our unbeaten record that day in a cup fixture, he still does this very much, even the stats backs this up. If he gets his confidence back I'm not sure if this Martinez guy is better.

 

[Trex]

Isn’t the window open for another 2 months?

Yes but the season starts in less than a month, we can continue fannying about with this Dutch/Ajax obsession or go for other target.

 

[Cassidy]

The first time I noticed Maguire he was at Hull in a game against Mourinho United, he was doing this the entire game causes us all kinds of trouble, I remember they broke our unbeaten record that day in a cup fixture, he still does this very much, even the stats backs this up. If he gets his confidence back I'm not sure if this Martinez guy is better.

Lacks the agility to do it at top level, you should probably watch Martinez more.

 

[Judas]

Bit surprised even this one doesn't seem to be getting wrapped up sharpish. We can't be offering that much more money for him surely.

 

[cyberman]

We haven’t bid 50!

So the news from last night was bullshit?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

So the news from last night was bullshit?

Didn't someone say we bid a package of 50m which included add ons, where Ajax want 50m plus add ons?

 

[Trex]

Lacks the agility to do it at top level, you should probably watch Martinez more.

And you've seen Martinez do it at "top level" consistently?
What's the point of signing from the Dutch league if you're paying a fee comparable to an EPL player?

 

[Cassidy]

And you've seen Martinez do it at "top level" consistently?
What's the point of going signing from the Dutch league if you're paying a fee comparable to an EPL player?

Yes
He won't cost more than 50m euros, very much doubt that