Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

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What on earth is going on?

How does it take this long to find out how much the player would cost / feel out the availability of a player, particularly with a club like Ajax?

Madness.
 
golden_blunder said:
Well Stam and Ruud for a start no?
Overmars for arsenal
Kuyt for Liverpool
Etc
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How many years do you have to go back, I'm talking recent times. Do you think the Dutch league is the same now as it was in the early 2000s/90s.
Give me 5 example in the last 10 years and I'll give you 10 from Germany, France, Portugal, Spain each.
 
Adisa said:
Doesn't make sense.
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It makes a world of sense. He risks falling into the fallacy of "il buy who I know" and risk moving toward players who aren't yet ready for a move (but may be in a year or two) . Consequently imbecile pundits on SkySports would mug off the dutch league if they take too long to adapt.
 
M4YON said:
Just feel Ajax are being a little picky here had this been Bayern they'd of bent over and sold him for 35 million.

Then the added ETH risks fracturing his relationship if he pursues more Ajax players when we haven't signed one yet :lol:

Neres was a prime example of the huge risk you take and I'm suprised to see Ajax willing to take it again.
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Man that is just such a minion crybaby mentality on this forum. It's just BS. Martinez has a 3 year contract and Ajax never wanted to sell. Thats when you can stick to your terms. Antony is the same situation. It's not comparable to the other players that have left the club.

The world does not evolve around Man United. Ajax doesn't have to bend over just because United wants a player.
 
Daslogisch said:
Man that is just such a minion crybaby mentality on this forum. It's just BS. Martinez has a 3 year contract and Ajax never wanted to sell. Thats when you can stick to your terms. Antony is the same situation. It's not comparable to the other players that have left the club.

The world does not evolve around Man United. Ajax doesn't have to bend over just because United wants a player.
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I do believe Ajax are being a little picky with Martinez but I don't really believe the Bayern part I just said that to wind Terranova up :lol:
 
Im not going to lie, I am a bit surprised at how eager ETH is getting players from Ajax. He’s playing it safe in regards to transfers as in he’s sticking to what he is familiar with;
whilst I was hoping he had a more structured plan in place. My only criticism so far as I do think he’s the right man for the job. But surely to god there must be better/cheaper options out there than Antony/ Martinez for those positions? Maybe he does not trust our scouts… I personally prefer pau Torres for that position but I didn’t manage either players so ya….. there is that.
 
El-Manos said:
Im not going to lie, I am bit surprised at how eager ETH is at getting players from Ajax. He’s playing it safe in regards to transfer whilst I was hoping he had a more structured plan in place. My only criticism so far as I do think he’s the right man for the job.
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I think it's already been reported in the United thread that ETH doesn't trust the United Scouting system in place hence the heavy movements for ex players.
 
After a season like the last one its reassuring to know that the players are not going to get away with it! They can have a clean slat but they will be competing with 2 new defenders (it looks like a CB will be coming in even if it is not Martinez)
 
El-Manos said:
Im not going to lie, I am bit surprised at how eager ETH is at getting players from Ajax. He’s playing it safe in regards to transfer whilst I was hoping he had a more structured plan in place. My only criticism so far as I do think he’s the right man for the job.
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A structured plan also requires the right players, so I okay with him targeting players he knows will fit in.
He can't change our entire squad in one window so getting key players he knows and trust in these early days is just smart in my opinion.
 
Berbaclass said:
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It‘s really bizarre that almost every player linked is a former Ajax or Dutch league player. I have no problem with a manager getting familiar players but if our links are true we could end up with 5 players in one window? mad.
 
GreatDane said:
A structured plan also requires the right players, so I okay with him targeting players he knows will fit in.
He can't change our entire squad in one window so getting key players he knows and trust in these early days is just smart in my opinion.
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Exactly. Toxic environment? Ok then I’ll bring in players I know and trust.
 
If Martinez was the the player coveted then why not move for him sooner before Ajax had to sell off other starters. It seems that the new recruitment side hasn’t learned a thing.
 
Trex said:
How many years do you have to go back, I'm talking recent times. Do you think the Dutch league is the same now as it was in the early 2000s/90s.
Give me 5 example in the last 10 years and I'll give you 10 from Germany, France, Portugal, Spain each.
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VVD
Blind
Wijnaldum
Krul
Van Aanholt
 
Utd bought Wan Bissaka ignoring his keys flaws of well below par technique, bought Maguire, infatuated with his aerial power and ability on the ball, ignoring his key flaws of lack of pace, agility and the many instances of him being a below par defender. I hope that it is not repeat in a year if Utd do sign Martinez, but being small and slow is going to be an issue despite his excellence on the ball.
 
Castia said:
It‘s really bizarre that almost every player linked is a former Ajax or Dutch league player. I have no problem with a manager getting familiar players but if our links are true we could end up with 5 players in one window? mad.
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He needs to control the dressing room.

Smart of him to bring in players loyal to him from Day 1.

Who knows what shitbags are still left in that dressing room, even though we've got rid of two certain ones already.
 
golden_blunder said:
Well Stam and Ruud for a start no?
Overmars for arsenal
Kuyt for Liverpool
Etc

there have been many failures from other countries not just Dutch
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Off the top of my head, Robin van Persie, Luis Suárez, Christen Eriksen can be added to your list.
 
M4YON said:
I do believe Ajax are being a little picky with Martinez but I don't really believe the Bayern part I just said that to wind Terranova up :lol:
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Ajax is 'picky' cause Ajax always said Martinez, Antony and Timber are 'not for sale'. Ajax is however realistic to know that in the end everyone has a price. Therefore the media started mentioning figures that Ajax would reluctantly accept.

Don't forget it happens the other way around as well. Ajax got absolutely robbed by Spurs for Bergwijn. Ajax can't really afford to get robbed when it wants to buy a player and then let it's own top players go relatively cheap.

50m for Martinez is on the high end, I agree with that. But as mentioned, Ajax hold all the cards here, never wanted to sell and Ajax just saw Botman go to Newcastle for 40m. Martinez is far better than Botman. 50m-55m isn't so crazy when you compare that and given all of this it's understandable Ajax won't give in much. Nevertheless I'd be surprised if terms weren't agreed between both clubs from this point on.
 
Daslogisch said:
Ajax is 'picky' cause Ajax always said Martinez, Antony and Timber are 'not for sale'. Ajax is however realistic to know that in the end everyone has a price. Therefore the media started mentioning figures that Ajax would reluctantly accept.

Don't forget it happens the other way around as well. Ajax got absolutely robbed by Spurs for Bergwijn. Ajax can't really afford to get robbed when it wants to buy a player and then let it's own top players go relatively cheap.

50m for Martinez is on the high end, I agree with that. But as mentioned, Ajax hold all the cards here, never wanted to sell and Ajax just saw Botman go to Newcastle for 40m. Martinez is far better than Botman. 50m-55m isn't so crazy when you compare that and given all of this it's understandable Ajax won't give in much. Nevertheless I'd be surprised if terms weren't agreed between both clubs from this point on.
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Fair assessment.

I just don't but the reasoning behind the Ajax fans stance which is they need the €50 million to buy a replacement should Martinez leave as if they're going to blow 50 million on a CB... just isn't going to happen, it's not the way Ajax opperate.
 
Adisa said:
Doesn't make sense.
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2 bloody players. Maybe Ajax is the one damaging their legacy by selling half their bloody team but stonewalling one of their most successful managers of all time as he is trying to prove himself post Ajax. IMO Ajax are looking like the bad ones in this situation, he did amazing things for that club, and then he gave them one more season and they knew he would be leaving. They had to know he wanted a couple players, they should have basically made an agreement with him when he was leaving, look, will give you a couple players at a fair price before we whore ourselves out to the rest of Europe.

It's weird behaviour too, Ajax want people who leave their club to be successful, it's what makes them successful. Ten Hag or United royally pissed off Ajax, it's the only thing that makes sense.
 
Bobski said:
Utd bought Wan Bissaka ignoring his keys flaws of well below par technique, bought Maguire, infatuated with his aerial power and ability on the ball, ignoring his key flaws of lack of pace, agility and the many instances of him being a below par defender. I hope that it is not repeat in a year if Utd do sign Martinez, but being small and slow is going to be an issue despite his excellence on the ball.
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He's got surprisingly good stats in the air, pretty similar to Maguire in fact. He really doesn't seem to have too many flaws.
 
I can see where the concerns stem from with bringing in so many former players. Because it looks from the outside that either we haven't gotten the sporting director role right yet again or that sacking Ralph from his consultancy for this capacity is worrying as he had an eye for players. Or ETH doesn't trust or doesn't want to work with the players we've suggested, another issue which could be linked to the first.

However, I think it may be far more likely that he's watched us play and how utterly terrible we are at pretty much every aspect of the game and to implement such a radical change in philosophy he needs as many players as possible in key positions to make the transition smoother than it would otherwise be. E.g let's get in a CB, CM and attacker who already know all my methods and how I want them to play alongside VDB. They might not be world class players per se, but they may look world class within my system (VDB as an example) and then we can build upon that and potentially upgrade them a few years down the line once the style is ingrained throughout the team. It basically gives the team a booster shot of how he wants them to play without having to start from scratch as im sure he realizes he simply doesn't have the time to do so, and may not be afforded it if he can't get it up and running to some degree asap.

I for one welcome our dutch overlords.
 
golden_blunder said:
Well Stam and Ruud for a start no?
Overmars for arsenal
Kuyt for Liverpool
Etc

there have been many failures from other countries not just Dutch
Click to expand...
Sultan said:
Off the top of my head, Robin van Persie, Luis Suárez, Christen Eriksen can be added to your list.
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Alderweireld, Van der Sar, Van Bommel, Davids, Seedorf, Sneijder, Vertonghen , Moussa Dembele, Ibrahimovic, Vermaelen, Robben, Eider Gudjohnson,

@Trex
 
golden_blunder said:
Exactly. Toxic environment? Ok then I’ll bring in players I know and trust.
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Absolutely.
Next summer when the squad knows him, his style and gameplan it'll be alot easiere to bring in new players into an already well-integrated squad. Maybe even from a league other than the Dutch.
 
golden_blunder said:
VVD
Blind
Wijnaldum
Krul
Van Aanholt
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So proof that there have been zero great signings from a Dutch club the premier league bar Suarez yet we should spend big money there.
Aanolt not a Eredevisie export.
Van dijk and Wijnaldum had to further their footballing education before moving to a top six side.
Krul was never good enough.
Blind only played two years outside the dutch league, was good but not great.
[/QUOTE]
 
The transfer will depend on what the player wants. Possible, but mostly the player gets his way.
 
TheReligion said:
Alderweireld, Van der Sar, Van Bommel, Davids, Seedorf, Sneijder, Vertonghen , Moussa Dembele, Ibrahimovic, Vermaelen, Robben, Eider Gudjohnson,

@Trex
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Sure I could list all time players from Nigeria, why don't we target players from the Npfl.
 
WhyYouGottaBeSoRuud? said:
Half agree with this. Why not? May as well go bankrupt as well. We'll still be able to sign 5 to 6 players no questions asked right?
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Read again, you missed the point. I meant tapping players up before to lower any fees. Not signing players out of our limit.
 
Daslogisch said:
Man that is just such a minion crybaby mentality on this forum. It's just BS. Martinez has a 3 year contract and Ajax never wanted to sell. Thats when you can stick to your terms. Antony is the same situation. It's not comparable to the other players that have left the club.

The world does not evolve around Man United. Ajax doesn't have to bend over just because United wants a player.
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I agree with your comments on Martinez and Antony. Ajax made it clear from the start and EtH has also apparently been quoted about Antony being a very difficult acquisition. I guess in this case it's both the players and their respective agents pushing for the deal. I feel like this is where United typically end up getting suckered into protracted negotiations and paying a hefty premium.
 
Trex said:
Sure I could list all time players from Nigeria, why don't we target players from the Npfl.
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A large list has been presented, and you have been found to be incorrect.

Move along.
 
M4YON said:
Fair assessment.

I just don't but the reasoning behind the Ajax fans stance which is they need the €50 million to buy a replacement should Martinez leave as if they're going to blow 50 million on a CB... just isn't going to happen, it's not the way Ajax opperate.
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Of course Ajax won't pay 50m for a Martinez replacement. However, Ajax has high salary cost compared to general income. If Ajax don't make CL, Ajax really needs to sell players. Ajax has also bought players that have flopped (like any club) and now has players that left on a free and cheap (Gravenberch, 1 yr contract left). These players also need to be replaced. Last year Brobbey left us on a free and now we're likely to spend more than 15m to get him back.

Hence, obviously Ajax needs to have cash in the bank for bad situations. Therefore it obviously has a big interest in cashing in maximum when when the opportunity occurs. This is that kind of situation. If Antony is getting sold, the same will happen. When Gravenberch was sold Ajax had to accept a low fee because Ajax's hands were tied with only 1 year left on his contract. With 3 years left and Ajax wanting to keep the player, the leverage is on Ajax' side this time. This is in the end how the game is played, but it has nothing to do with the clubs involved.
 
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I don't understand why we didn't move for Ajax players sooner if we knew we were interested in them. Instead Ajax have been able to raise significant funds through other sales and we'll be bent over/not able to bring in the ones we want.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be going for him, but this FdJ deal is seriously fecking a critical window for the club.
 
Trex said:
Sure I could list all time players from Nigeria, why don't we target players from the Npfl.
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What you’re saying essentially is that we will fail because we’ve bought players from Ajax. Fine let’s buy players from palace, Leicester and Porto instead.

there’s no hard rule that says they will all fail no matter how much you try to box them in with date ranges
 
Leeds signed Feyenoord colombian winger Sinisterra, 23 for £21m pounds.
23 goals and 14 assist in all comp.
Where as United would double that for Martinez and even more for Antony :nono: :nono: :wenger:
 
Daslogisch said:
Of course Ajax won't pay 50m for a Martinez replacement. However, Ajax has high salary cost compared to general income. If Ajax don't make CL, Ajax really needs to sell players. Ajax has also bought players that have flopped (like any club) and now has players that left on a free and cheap (Gravenberch, 1 yr contract left). These players also need to be replaced. Last year Brobbey left us on a free and now we're likely to spend more than 15m to get him back.

Hence, obviously Ajax needs to have cash in the bank for bad situations. Therefore it obviously has a big interest in cashing in maximum when when the opportunity occurs. This is that kind of situation. If Antony is getting sold, the same will happen. When Gravenberch was sold Ajax had to accept a low fee because Ajax's hands were tied with only 1 year left on his contract. With 3 years left and Ajax wanting to keep the player, the leverage is on Ajax' side this time.
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Appreciate your insight :)
 
Trex said:
Leeds signed Feyenoord colombian winger Sinisterra, 23 for £21m pounds.
23 goals and 14 assist in all comp.
Where as United would double that for Martinez and even more for Antony :nono: :nono: :wenger:
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So we should have signed Sinisterra? What’s your point
 
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