Which was when Klopp was deeper into his tenure at Liverpool and his skeletal squad was set out. I think Ten Hag is relying a lot on the eye test for his first window — players he’s actually seen first hand who will fit the squad. I imagine our transfer dealings next summer (assuming he’s still around!) will look an awful lot different.
Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United
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Think this will practically be a done dealio by the end of the day.
Won't be popular at all but I would have Maguire playing if we were to play a Back 3. Get him on his comfortable side too.
The best thing to come out of this thread is the description of Rojo as a passionate idiot. It's so bloody accurate 
Some players would, mainly Dutch players or former Eredivisie players that want to be guaranteed of CL football and want a good shot at winning titles.
It is only now that Ajax has the finances to bring players like Blind, Tadic, Bergwijn, Haller back to the Eredivisie.
That's why though the financial structure might look similar to the Bundesliga, Ajax will probably never be the Bayern of the Netherlands.
There is a cap on the quality of players you can bring in, you have to have seriously good youth coming through the ranks, and PSV is also much better than the rest. Dortmund relatively isnt as good as PSV is.
He should think for the less fortunate like for example Ronaldo who took a pay cut
Yep but the crux of the argument here is about how much we trust the new guy to make good signings and not waste money.
On the one side you have Adnan claiming Klopp was allowed to do this and on the other side, I'm saying he wasn't backed with 100M+ of Bundesliga signings just because he wanted them.
EDIT
If I have to build a narrative:
Klopp joined after the 15/16 started and wasn't around for the transfer window then. They had a typical, mediocre Liverpool-like window where they signed Ings, Clyne, Firmino, Benteke, Milner, Joe Gomez. All using the Edwards / Graham moneyball approach. Klopp took over that side and had them scoring goals but they finished 8th.
16/17: Then they got Mane, Matip, Wijnaldum and some random Bundesliga players who had no impact on the Pool season. This was the season where they scored a bucketload of goals and ended up conceding a lot as well. I'd argue the Bundesliga players had no relevance to this, it was just Klopp's coaching and signings outside the Bundesliga. In fact I remember Matip being trolled pretty hard that season. Their starting XI then:
Mignolet, Clyne, Matip, Lovren, Milner (LB), Lallana, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Mane, Firmino, Coutinho.
Maybe you can call Mane a Klopp signing but not anyone else in that list.
17/18: Coutinho out and VVD, Salah in and the rest is history.
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He wont, Ajax and its fans don't really give that.
As reasonable as I might think I am, the expectations are to win the league. It helps that PSV also have a new manager though.
LisONdro MartONez.
This one is easy ‘cos Ajax are well run and decent to deal with.
Doesn’t even make 100 pages
This one is easy ‘cos Ajax are well run and decent to deal with.
Doesn’t even make 100 pages
Honestly if we are splashing the cash for a CB with glaring weaknesses (that get exploited at the highest levels) then I can only assume EtH has plans to start 3 CBs this season. It would certainly suit Maguire and Martinez and minimise our defensive weakness in midfield (Eriksen, Bruno, +1) and on the flanks (Shaw and Dalot). I'm convinced that Eriksen joins as a starter by the way. When fit, there's no way a player with his stats and calibre is only used on rotation.
Yeah hopefully this last bid means it’ll get wrapped up pretty soon.
Did Klopp not want Brandt as well and had to be convinced by the Transfer Committee that Salah was the better option?
We know he wanted Werner as well.
Martinez is Ajax' player of the season. Despite many challenges on and off the pitch, Ajax won the league and did great in Europe. Knocked out by Benfica mainly due to Onana who was terrible this season.
Martinez and Timber formed a wonderful duo, Ajax were conceding such few goals both in Europe and domestically. The most brilliant defense in ages for the club.
All you read about here are Martinez' weaknesses though and how it will get exploited at the highest level (which is the PL for some reason). He's too slow, and too short.
I can imagine that for anyone who has watched Ajax, this just doesnt make any sense.
Martinez and Timber formed a wonderful duo, Ajax were conceding such few goals both in Europe and domestically. The most brilliant defense in ages for the club.
All you read about here are Martinez' weaknesses though and how it will get exploited at the highest level (which is the PL for some reason). He's too slow, and too short.
I can imagine that for anyone who has watched Ajax, this just doesnt make any sense.
What were Ajax's challenges on and off the pitch?
You might have figured out by now that no matter how many times counterpoints are put in place, they are ignored, very likely on the next page, for the loop to remain closed.
It's actually quite fascinating, once you get past the incredulity of it.
There are valid causes for concern, sure, but the dismissive nature of some posts that don't even give the guy a chance is frustrating.
Injuries of our grandpa keeper Pasveer, who was very good for us and mainly a leader in defence. Injuries of Mazraoui, Antony, Haller.
The whole situation with Promes the season before, Overmars and his stuff. And I'm sure I am forgetting even more. Ajax really had to fight this year to achieve whatever they did.
Ah moaners will always moan man, looking forward to see what he brings to the team, if we manage to get it across the line.
Cheers! Always good to learn something new everyday.
No issue with that so long as Martinez is better than what we currently have. From reading posts in here, doesn't sounds like he is - small, slow and no better on the ball then Lindelof.
I've said all along when you want a player that the selling club doesn't want to sell and the selling club has the leverage of a long term contract, you are going to have to pay a premium to get it done. The same applies to Antony. If you're going to get him, it will be for €70m-€80m and not for €60m.
I love Martinez and he'll definitely bring agressiveness to your side. I don't agree he breaks down under pressure. Sometimes he simply refuses to take risks, other times he will stay ice cold when players are chasing him down. Most defenders who are calm on the ball, tend to miscalculate every now and then and then make a big mistake. I actually don't recall these with Martinez. I think he's really found a solid balace in staying calm and resisting pressure and deciding when he shouldn't take risks.
On the other side he does have a few weaknesses. I wouldn't call him slow, but he's not the quickest. Sometimes he takes stupid yellow cards by being aggressive at the wrong time (half way line tackles) and obviously he is not very tall. Nevertheless he's strong in the air for a player his height. But put him against Lukaku/Zlatan types obviously he's going to struggle with crosses. But guess what, that's why he's a €40-50m player and not an €80-100m player. PL fans should really stop acting like €50m is a lot of money for players they don't know that well, whilst accepting ridiculous fees for PL players. Martinez is better than Mings or Dier, but they would probably be regarded cheap for €50m. Saying €50m is expensive is BS as long as ridiculous fees are paid for average PL players. Harry Maguire being the biggest example for that and £80m Harry is going to be benched for this €50m guy now, unless EtH switches to a back three (which I don't think is likely).
This is a key point.
We're not paying some insane Maguire-esque fee here with all the expectations that come with that. The £42m-ish bid we've just made is in the same ballpark as the figures being reported in Chelsea's bid for Nathan Ake, with City having paid a similar £41m fee for Ake previously. Would anyone seriously prefer us to be signing Ake instead?
At that price we're not (or shouldn't be) expecting some flawless, complete CB.
But what we are getting is a left-footed CB we are certain fits the manager's system, whose personality the manager knows, who will improve our ability on the ball, who can fill in a few other positions in an emergency and who (unlike an option like Pau Torres, for example) is of the more aggressive rather than passive style of CB we probably need to complement our other CBs. With it also allowing the likes of Bailly/Jones to leave, that's enough for the price we're paying.
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Under the old coaches, the players were individuals so we needed players to be individually good.
Now we need good players but ETH will be building a collective that raises the level of players who can operate in that system.
Martinez is who he wants, so we have to trust the manager on this, bear in mind he worked with him.
Now we need good players but ETH will be building a collective that raises the level of players who can operate in that system.
Martinez is who he wants, so we have to trust the manager on this, bear in mind he worked with him.
Trusting the manager instead of building a comprehensive recruitment network and identifying players that would fit in here regardless of who the manager is is exactly why our squad is such a mess.
We do need a crazy Argentinian in the team. Hope this goes through today!
Please, someone explain the priority of having left-footed CB to having a RB with 2 legs or RW with brain?
Also, backing the manager is different to "go ahead and get all your previous players, before knowing that Premier League and Man United levels are"
Being optimistic is good, but will we ever learn?
Davinson Sanchez - ok at best I guess..
De Jong - never reached estimated level
De Ligt - flop
Ziyech - flop
De Beek - flop
Neres - flop
Also, backing the manager is different to "go ahead and get all your previous players, before knowing that Premier League and Man United levels are"
Being optimistic is good, but will we ever learn?
Davinson Sanchez - ok at best I guess..
De Jong - never reached estimated level
De Ligt - flop
Ziyech - flop
De Beek - flop
Neres - flop
You're right, but you need to remember we've just ripped up that network and have a new structure completely. I think its wise to give ETH some players he can trust to implement his style straight away. In a years time, I would expect the club and the manager to cast their net much wider. If not, I would be a little worried.
If we can now raise around 15 million through the sales of tuanzebe, Jones and Bailly we'd have done very well.
The two are not mutually exclusive. We have just switched out the old people, it takes time. No previous manager actually had a philosophy.
Sigh. This again
You would have thought this when we signed Vidic and when Liverpool signed VVD.
No one was thinking that about VVD
Agreed, it was obvious he was special.
I thought he was good, but didn't think he would be as good as he has become to be honest.
De Ligt flop
Neres hasn't even played anywhere since he left Ajax. Also the expectations weren't too high. No one in The Netherlands considers him world class or anything. He never was one of Ajax's true best players.
De Jong never reached estimated levels because people expected him to play 10/10 every week. Moreover, he also has not been played in his true best position. Barca is getting rid because they need money.
Ziyech and Donny simply haven't been utilised correctly. Ziyech can easily be a star in the PL, but he needs a manager that uses him in the right way. Donny isn't a Ziyech type of special player, but if he does start playing more regularly under Ten Hag, don't be suprised if he looks a total different player. Remember Mo Salah also flopped at Chelsea before he became the league's best player with a different manager in a different team. Most football fans don't seem to understand that all players need to play in a role which suits their qualities. If you buy a player that's shining for another team and then you give him a totally different set of roles and responsibilities in another team (even if he's technically playing in the same position), that same player can flop easily.
So you’re telling us you don’t understand football
I've clearly hit a nerve. I mean not every player that's expected to become good, actually turns out good. I think it's you who needs the better understanding.
Good shout
I do. Ajax should actually communicate something like this as well to protect the manager. We shouldn't make the same mistake Man Utd made when Ferguson left. SAF squeezed the team till the last stretch and needed one incredible season of RvP to get one last title. But that whole core was already squeezed to the max and not up for it anymore. SAF knew that of course and probably also knew very well he wouldn't be able to compete against an emerging City. United at that point already needed a complete rebuild. But no one made the call.
United had some kind of spastic desire to keep competing, whilst reality was that United already needed a complete rebuild at that point. But when you need a major rebuild, it's going to take time and you need to take one or two steps back. Obviously that's not a popular message, especailly not towards fans and media will jump on it as well. But if that's what it is, that's what it is. United never deliberately took two steps back to rebuild, but took half a step back and thought that would be sufficient to be competing again in a very short period of time. Result: United is still in a rebuild after a decade.
Ajax shouldn't make the same mistake. Ajax is losing half the starting eleven now, from which some were key parts of the team. Ajax has one advantage, it was also one step ahead of the domestic competition. Hence, Ajax might still compete domestically this season. Ajax should definitely still make top 2. However, if PSV keep it together than they are the favourites in my book. But especially in terms of European expectations, we really shouldn't have any next season and I would be totally ok if the club communicated that. We also need to protect the manager here. We have to be realistic.
We've already spent a ridiculous fee on Bergwijn. We shouldn't do any more of that just because we're desperate to hold on to level we've had in the past few years. It's not realistic to chase that in the coming season and we should be taking a step back now. Get some young players in for a decent amount of money, give them time to adjust and learn and then hopefully make a step forward again next year. We have to start building a new team that can challenge Europe's best teams in 2/3 years from now. By desperately trying to hold on to what we've had we're only going to overspent and be disappointed for a long time. United post SAF is the perfect example of that.
Well that just isn't true. From literally the first page and a half of the December 2017 VVD thread in the transfer forum:
Van Dijk is decent but why is he being hyped up to be this world-class CB all of a sudden? Somebody the other day even said on here Liverpool should be all out for him the next window as he’d completely fix their defensive problems.
Not for me. Cost too much in a position we are already stacked in. If we could move a couple on maybe but I honestly think he's overrated. Anyway I am pro Smalling so will keep out
At which point in the thread Liverpool sign him for a record fee, and the scoffing spirals from there for another 17 pages.
I salute your efforts and have blocked all involved
Argies are mad like a box of frogs.
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