Yeah I would be all for that happening
Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United
- Thread starter darioterios
- Start date
- Status
Yeah I would be all for that happening
I think Martinez would spend much time stepping out of defence and helped in midfield IF United got their possession game going. When you dominate possession, you're not going to need 2 centerbacks to stay back, you'll need one of them to go forward and help with attack.
One of Maguire and Varane should be fine partnering Martinez and both are decent passers when they want to. Also from what I've seen, his anticipation is excellent which would negate much of the height issue.
He'll get beaten in the air by more physical and taller strikers for sure. But you have to believe that his partner are able to deal with that.
Yeah, the long term team to me at the minute, assuming we make the De Jong and Martinez signings is:
Sancho-----#9---------RW
-----Eriksen/VDB/Bruno-----
--------De Jong--DM
Malacia-Martinez-RCB---RB
-----------------GK---------------
and then we'll see which of the current players and youth can be the answers of those spots so we're not buying 7 more players.
That’s a surprising stat on Dias although his stats the season before were a bit better though still not great. I haven’t even been able to find Martinez’s aerial stats as they’re not available on Fbref.
But the concern is that City are on a completely different level to us. So to expect EtH to get us to a place where we are only conceding minimal crosses per match this season or next even is optimistic to say the least.
It is also admittedly an issue of us not even thinking he was the best option at Ajax in the first place. So to not show interest in other targets like Gvardiol or Ndicka and defaulting to the second option at Ajax really rubs me the wrong way.
I am no fan of Lindelof though I think he’s much better on the ball than Maguire. But as I said in my prior post the fact that we defaulted to our second option at Ajax rather than looking at other targets like Gvardiol or Ndicka really doesn’t fill me with confidence. Too much reliance on EtH rather than the scouting department so far.
I expect that the positions you suggest won’t be absolute with Sancho Bruno VdB Eriksen all capable of playing other roles.
De Gea, Varane, Ronaldo (or a new 9) will all play. Ronaldo won’t be allowed to leave without a replacement which will be an additional signing.
Fred, Garner, Mctominay for the other CM role, AWB, Dalot and maybe Laird for RB. Rashford, Martial, Amad, Pellistri for the other wide spot?
Hard to predict
That left hand side defence would get ripped to bits with high balls. No way it'd be sustainable in the Premier league.
Not worth discussing Ronaldo for the long term.
De Gea we’ll see how he adapts to being a modern keeper.
My guess is one of Varane or Maguire will work out but maybe not be an every game player. Varane is better but Maguire is healthier and does probably still have more potential if he doesn’t lose another yard of pace, as crazy as that sounds. Wild CBs have had good early 30s before and he does look the part consistently for England.
Agreed on the rest. And yeah, Eriksen in particular playing deeper seems likely, but I don’t think we can play him and De Jong in a 2 so now you’re talking about dropping a winger or playing a false 9 or playing Bruno wide, or something with 3 at the back.
Martinez and Varane 1st choice CB pairing. Lindelof will be 3rd and Maguire last choice imo.
To fit FDJ, Eriksen and Bruno, one of Eriksen or Bruno will have to shift on the RW, like Mata who was a no10 but was playing on the RW.
They must be there day one on the only flight to wherever it is the tour is for the next month or they don’t go. Like a school trip to Llandudno.
S A V A G E, like his energy, made Nunez like a petulant kid, if Nunez won't toughen up he will have a hard time in EPL, might be he had a bad day only.
Matic and Pogba contributed a very little when it comes to set piece defending.
Matic was statue like and Pogba accident waiting to happen
Eh Varane's only first choice due to name value. He was so average last season, and he's barely ever fit.
Whoever is our starting pair should be doing it totally on merit. If that ends up being Maguire and Martinez, or Martinez and Lindelof, so be it.
I am 71 years old mate. It was feet and inches in my time.
https://www.indy100.com/news/system...ial-metric-world-map-measuring-height-7666466
Keep in mind, most of us use metric though... every time I see feet, pounds, stone, freedom per eagle and similar ways of measuring things I have to google it
I'm over the height issue, bring the guy in.
I like his versatility and looks like he can outjump taller players anyway..
I like his versatility and looks like he can outjump taller players anyway..
I could be wrong - and we'd need heat maps to verify - but my thought is yes, they were attacking, but really, concertedly squeezing the life out of the opposition came along when it could as in when the personnel that facilitated that entered the fray - for Klopp, when he got the keeper and VVD and for Pep, as his backline became the footballing one he wanted to go with his gazillion midfielders.
I don't think we'll be dissimilar to that kind of construction with perhaps more gems (ala De Jong) coming along and realise ten Hag's true vision, but in the meantime, there might be compromise(s), which, for me, is where Martinez is a really vital signing as the tide over before probably being placed in his long term role in the side.
I'm sure we as fans can reach consensus that Martinez is optimised as a CB in an oppressive team - right at this minute, he'd look better at City than here because of how far back they push the opposition enabling him to utilise his passing range under less pressure, but also providing far less opportunity to get at him for his height etc.
In time, we should be similar in driving opposing sides back and that's when he's an organic fit at the back, not to mention the requirements in midfield changing where he becomes more of an ill fit if we're not going to be under the cosh in the way I envision we initially will - De Jong and our whole midfield will face a full examination of their so-called credentials until determined as bona fide - so it, to me, is a dynamic, needs must situation. We need to establish midfield dominance and everything expands from there, I feel.
Somehow we have to unlock De Jong and allow him to do his thing with complete abandon and no fear. I feel that apart from France, De Jong will encounter more impedance to his gallivanting runs through midfield than he would anywhere else in
I believe it's subject to change with the aforementioned establishing of dominance, but initially?
If we don't buy a specialist, I don't see how he isn't deployed in midfield initially, especially so when him being there gives immense flexibility to the backline in offensive phases. But most particularly maintaining our shape at all times, no matter what De Jong is doing.
This thing about collecting the ball off the backline, too... there is obviously a difference between a ball carrier doing so and a quick release to someone who can take, turn and hit a pass from deep all the way into the final third with precision and pace - for the most part the ball carrier gets deference, but on mix up, you hit the passer to instantaneously hit a cutting ball 60 yards. There's no crossed wires there, as far as I see, just alternations and an understanding of who does what and when.
Agreed, those are two good examples of how height alone is no guarantee when it comes to defending (or attacking) crosses and winning headers.
Matic has little presence at all in our own or the other box. He is passive and does not attack the ball, nor is he very good at marking the opposition or escaping marking himself.
Pogba often has been active clearing the ball in his own box and even scoring a couple of headers himself. He is capable of good contributions. However, as is often the case in the rest of his game, he often turns off completely. When he does that, he doesn't head the ball properly, does not stay with his man and may make bad mistakes.
The latter is relevant to Martinez and his height. It is a matter of concern when a central defender is short. However, he could partly make up for it with tenacity, timing, concentration, positioning and other things. I have not watched him play much, so I do not really know if he can do this. I have understood though, that he has other characteristics which would be very handy for the team.
Agree about all of it except for I still think we sign a RW if Ronaldo stays, otherwise it will be more of a number 9.
I think time will tell, but if ETH complete the signings he wants this window (De Jong, Martinez, Eriksen especially), we'll already have a team that can keep the ball and drive opponent back, most people forget that Pep idea of playing two 10s is also a extreme concept just like having a 5ft 9 center back is, it won't be perfect from day 1 but I expect him to trust in his methods from the get go and not make many compromises.
Has anyone mentioned his height yet?
Or the size of his penis?
You'll play an extremely high line, and high balls then become a matter of having mobile centrebacks capable of tracking runs in behind, often to the flanks (Martinez and Timber at Ajax), and a player in the centre, around the kick-off spot capable of winning an aerial battle (Alvarez at Ajax). I think you should be thinking in terms of roles/function instead of positions actually.
Battling for headers around the centre circle was a big part of De Ligt's role, with Schöne (RCM) blocking passing lanes in the centre, and De Jong (LCM) tracking runners in behind (on the left side), particularly those towards the right wing.
Then in the later iteration, Alvarez performs the aerial role, and Martinez tracks runners in behind and towards that flank. Timber in this case performing similarly on the right.
Similarly there are roles/functionalities that are filled in by players from different positions in the different iterations of Ten Hag's Ajax.
So where "minimal" width up front was provided by Tagliafico (left back) and Mazraoui (right back) in the 18/19 Ajax, (this being the player that stands a yard or two wider than the widest defender, making either dragging them out slightly and creating space or being open to receive the ball and then put in a cross around the back)
In this season's Ajax, you would often instead see the midfielders Gravenberch and Berghuis be the players overlapping on the outsides to fill that role in attacks, with Blind and Mazraoui from fullback instead slotting in behind into more of the halfspaces. (picture this as being when the wingers Tadic/Antony have the ball respectively).
You would still need an aerially capable DM or RCB though.
Bollocks we will play McT for those aerial central battles wont we
Maguire as DM, lets go!Bollocks we will play McT for those aerial central battles wont we
that's basically alvarez tbf
So you mean I cracked to code? Maguire FDJ Eriksen midfield next season?
The aggression is the key thing. You don't have to be big to be strong or succeed physically. You need to have that aggression and a physical mentality to bully opposition forwards. Martinez is strong and aggressive, high balls can be dealt with through Varane/Maguire or McTominay at DM essentially.
Didn't report back for pre season today, prepare yourselves muppets...
Perfect (well, maybe not perfect but better) type of defenders against players like Sterling and Bernando Silva where their strengths are more into agility and technique instead of heading and physical, brute strength.
Agree here. He is a classic front foot aggressive defender whilst Lindelof is more passive. The height might be a concern against particular teams but ultimately I think he has far more positives than negatives.
Lisandro Martinez missed Ajax training today, while all other internationals are present. It looks like he can get ready for a transfer to Man Utd.
*missing training
Look like Vanders is doing business with no sentimental feelings. Business is business. No sentimental in it. Try to get the best price and most out of United. Can understand it. He is working for Ajax.
But for me. A price between 40 and max 50 is a fair price for both parts. With adds on of course.
But for me. A price between 40 and max 50 is a fair price for both parts. With adds on of course.
Surprised we've not heard anything concrete on this.
Surely tonight or tomorrow.
Surely tonight or tomorrow.
Watched quite a lot of highlights of him today and there really is a lot to like in his game, quality on the ball, aggressive front foot defender, and seems to have actual leadership qualities. However being small and lacking recovery pace is a bad combination for the PL so not fully convinced.
- Status