It's the price of being an aggressive defender. It makes him sometimes look too eager and leads to some erratic positioning if he doesn't get the ball.
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It's the price of being an aggressive defender. It makes him sometimes look too eager and leads to some erratic positioning if he doesn't get the ball.
Just watched highlights of his performance last night, and out of everything the fact he was making a lot of one touch, two touch passes was probably my favourite aspect. We've been guilty of slowing the game down a lot when the ball goes back to the centre backs but last night he was getting the ball forward instantly.
Agree. the pass before the Sancho goal was big.
I dont think this is true. I've seen Lindelof pick the wrong time to close down a player or stay away, or dive into a challenge and he rarely does it because he's one of the least aggressive defenders you will ever see.
Every defender will make a bad choice at times. VVD is considered the best CB in the world and he's making mistakes.
The difference between a good aggressive defender and Lindelof is that on top of the wrong times to go in, or back off, or dive in a good aggressive defender will also get it right the next 4 times and win the ball on top of the 1 mistake when they dont get it quite right. So occasionally he'll get it wrong but the vast majority of the time he'll get it right and we'll benefit from his clearance or ball winning. Meanwhile a passive defender will still make the mistakes because they are forced to defend at times, but with none of the good ball winning defending in between mistakes
Yeah that's the standout. But there were a couple of times in the first half where he got the ball, took a touch before pinging it out wide to Elanga before TAA could get set. Even other smaller moments where instead of holding onto the ball outside of our box he would play a one time pass up into a midfielder to turn the momentum. That speed of transition will be a big help for us.
The other thing is an aggressive defender might sometimes look silly unlike a passive defender. But you've got to look beyond the optics and just look at the value/effectiveness of what they're doing.
Yeah, except that he doesn't have a Brentford in him. This myth has been discussed here multiple times. He was okay against Brentford
Any comments from outside of United world on Martinez performance vs Liverpool?
Tbh even if Martinez doesn’t win every header (which I think he will win more than a lot of taller CBs) it’s not a big problem as it’s the second ball that’s the threat in the premier league. It’s down to those around him to win those second balls.He defended bundles of crosses against Brentford too. Toney is one of the best in terms of aerial duels and he barely got a sniff out of him.
People are blowing this WAY out of proportion because Neville wet his pants live on commentary.
I've seen enough already to know Martinez has zero problems in the air. Will he win every header? no. Is he a problem that will be targeted? no.
It reminds me of when teams targeted De Gea with long shots because he had a poor long shot %Tottenham kept shooting from 30 yards and the commentary team made out like he was going to let one in any moment.
Funny how that fazed out.
It’s very rare in a game that a long ball will lead to a direct attempt at goal from a header. It’s all about winning the second balls by the defenders and midfielders around you. I’ve seen enough of Martinez to know that even if he doesn’t win a duel, he’ll make it very difficult for the striker to do anything with it as he’s so physical and aggressive. The strikers will always be under pressure.
Just look at Ronaldo for example. Probably the greatest header of a ball we’ve ever seen. Yet he’s pretty poor at making anything of long balls to him as he doesn’t deal with pressure from behind very well.
I think a defender looks just as silly when they arent aggressive enough, like with VVD last night. He stands there holding his position and Sancho has a free slot to put the ball in
Likewise if they're backing off and play someone onside.
Also the mistake Lisandro made where his opponent was able to turn the ball in last time out, that was uncharicteristically not aggressive enough from him and pretty much the reason (on top of the height agenda) why people have been doubting him this week. And thats from him looking silly to them because he was outfought and it cost us a goal
Everyone’s new favourite player. He played like Rojo with Blind’s technique and football brain.
The game probably suited him, but his character looks very promising. Let’s hope he can keep it up and let’s hope his CB partner stays fit.
The game probably suited him, but his character looks very promising. Let’s hope he can keep it up and let’s hope his CB partner stays fit.
And a huge difference to the likes of Maguire, who just wasn't as well oriented. He would probably opt to get the ball under control before looking up.
Because he didn't challenge Ben Mee, so it's not correct to say he hasn't lost a duel. That's like saying a defender hasn't tried to attempt a tackle has never mistimed a tackle.
Anyways, I never bought the whole height argument. It seemed to come from the old English school of thinking where you lump the ball up the striker. Not many teams play that way anyways and better teams have come up with strategies to counter that.
People forget Masherano was a CB for Barca for quite a few years and was amazing at it, I didn't see them struggling against big English teams whenever they played against them in the UCL. It was similar thinking that made Liverpool think it was smart to spunk 70 mil on Downing and Carroll.
If you're reading of the game is great, you can manage without needing great height, it's about using your body cleverly and many short defenders in the past have been successful at it.
Well the manager of Manchester United Erik ten Haag, took him off at half time in that game and then went onto say that he took him off because he was bad but that so was everyone else. So I’m confident that I saw what ten Haag saw.
Ten Hag said he dominated his duels against Brentford. If you are going to quote the manager do it right.
Already feel more of a connection to Martinez after 3 games than I have with Maguire after 3 years.
Absolute warrior who will give his all for the badge. Love him.
Absolute warrior who will give his all for the badge. Love him.
You typed a lot. I didn’t read. But, yes. That is how stats work - and why they should be contextualised. The information itself isn’t wrong.
Yes, and he played some good long passes that actually came off. He was a breath of fresh air along with Malacia in our backline.
He feels like a definite big game player. I wonder if the true test for him will be against teams such as Southampton next weekend. I really like him and he's already a fan favourite.
I love that he owns up to his aggressiveness - when he bumps shoulders or finished the tackle outside the pitch lines he doesn't turn around and go away quickly to avoid the confrontation like Suarez or Diego Costa would. Looks them in the eyes "Yea, that's how its gonna be, come at me!"
Just goes to show you can't write off a defender without understanding the situation he' s playing in. Getting a steady pair of hands in goal instead of De Gea and a functioning midfield will help every defender in the team.
Great performance from him, I always say that this guy has a great future at United. He will adapt English football well for sure. I really like his aggressiveness and attitude.
People were writing him off?
Apparantly he is nicknamed El Carnicero? The butcher 
Some were. Not necessarily on this forum but in the football media.
Absolute monster performance. That’s what I want from my CBs. That’s why ETH snubbed pau torres for this guy. His front foot defending, his play to win attitude, his shithousing, the use of the ball. All spot on
More composed version of Rojo?
His height isnt a problem when were actually playing. It doesnt stand out because you see how aggressive he is. I didnt think it would be a problem like some in the media have made out.
I did think the issue would be about who is partner is and the midfield in front of him. Casemiro at DM and Varane next to him sounds so good.
His height isnt a problem when were actually playing. It doesnt stand out because you see how aggressive he is. I didnt think it would be a problem like some in the media have made out.
I did think the issue would be about who is partner is and the midfield in front of him. Casemiro at DM and Varane next to him sounds so good.
On this very forum.
“he was second choice”, “he’s too small”, etc
Give the lads time to settle in, but our fans have no patience
ETH already answered that question. For God's sake, he is our own player. Be patient . Not saying he will be a Vidic but give him time.
Big similarity with Gabby Heinze (for anyone old enough to remember him) in terms of his fighting spirit (‘grinta’) but seems more composed in possession. Also (hopefully) won’t turn out to want to sign for the team we played last night!
Yeah fair enough. People do need to be a bit more patient.
he's got that dawg in him
Brilliant performance
Can read the game well !
Can read the game well !
Seems like a modern fad, isn't it? If people don't give enough space and time for players and managers to try and fail, you also get less space for improvement on the long term.
Sometimes is better to loose some games while trying to make things progress than to take the same old root of "results first, long term thinking later", which usually leads to a dead-end.
apt.Apparantly he is nicknamed El Carnicero? The butcher
Hopefully GLazers sell the club soon so i can buy a kit with Martinez
? Are we assuming everyone on here is under 20. Definitely get similar vibes.
This really set the mood for the rest of the match, great stuff.
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