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Lisandro Martinez Argentina flag

2022-23 Performances

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6.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
45
Clean sheets
20
Goals
1
Assists
0
Yellow cards
10
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I can't believe anyone here would actually imply that Maguire is better than Martinez who more or less has single-handedly transformed our absolutely terrible defense that we were all dreading to watch every time they were on the pitch. Holy shit, he had one terrible game (2 if we count the Brighton one which was his debut) and suddenly he's not world class, Maguire is better, etc. You can make an entire youtube movie of Maguire's massive blunders last season while Lissandro has hardly put a foot wrong this season, yet some people are now saying Maguire is better than him because the entire team turned into an absolute mess in the Liverpool game.
 
Sviken said:
I can't believe anyone here would actually imply that Maguire is better than Martinez who more or less has single-handedly transformed our absolutely terrible defense that we were all dreading to watch every time they were on the pitch. Holy shit, he had one terrible game (2 if we count the Brighton one which was his debut) and suddenly he's not world class, Maguire is better, etc. You can make an entire youtube movie of Maguire's massive blunders last season while Lissandro has hardly put a foot wrong this season, yet some people are now saying Maguire is better than him because the entire team turned into an absolute mess in the Liverpool game.
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Haha has someone actually said this?
 
TMDaines said:
I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far. He’s simply done nothing to prove that, but that’s not to say he necessarily won’t over time. He’s clearly a good fit for ETH’s style of football, so I can see why the manager wanted him so much, but I don’t feel as if we are a better side defensively for his presence at this point.

. Maguire and Lindelöf were quite highly regarded at that time and were the partnership in defence that was better than the one we have now.
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Thought there was none left but there you are waiting for this anomaly to happen to come forth with utter, utter nonsense. I am not going to even explain why your wrong as you obviously haven't the football knowledge to even scratch the surface of making a counter argument worthwhile. You definitely fall in the Life of Brian box " "Yeah but what have the romans ever done for us". Let do a trio and get woodward maguire and ole back at the helm.
 
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A-man said:
I don’t fully agree with your assessment, but fair enough, it’s subjective and I can agree with you more than I normally do... The point is that I’m not looking at this from a more pragmatic perspective, and therefore looking at it right now, what to do next after the Liverpool disaster. I'm not so focused on the first matches of the season, where Varane/Martinez looked good and solid and Martinez/Lindelof had their (1) lost game (plus the Omonia was poor). I’m comparing here and now and even if the sample size is small, I think that lately, Varane/Martinez haven’t been as solid anymore. Liverpool was of course the worst but also not as solid from game to game. This, plus Varane's fitness issues which make him a 1 game a week player makes me believe our best option is to alternate between those two CB pairs. I absolutely don't dislike Maguire, but he doesn't fit at all unfortunately and should mainly stand in for injuries, when Martinez needs to rest, or when we need to strengthen our aerial defence at the end of a game.


The second note. Adding Casemiro to the team has had a huge impact. The CBs no longer need to face forwards at full speed in 1v1 situation all the time. Situations where the CB risked to be dribbled, like Salah or Antonio coming at Martinez in our last two games, those situations were standard before Casemiro joined.
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That's fair. Out of the two, Varane looks to be moving more sheepishly recently and doesn't look as physically sharp as at the beginning of the season.

Out of the remaining choices, in games that matter, I'd say Shaw as a CB is probably just ahead of Lindelof for me to be Martinez's partner to rest/replace a non-fully fit Varane. 1) Shaw has more genuine covering pace, is as good aerially (perhaps not in set piece situations as that's more tactical) and arguably better on the ball from that position 2) it would give Malacia more minutes at LB, who imo has been underplayed and gives us more defensive solidarity on that left channel 3) I don't really trust Lindelof to cover the space on the right channel when Dalot of AWB go forwards/tuck inside; he's shown time and time again, his instinct is to retreat to his penalty box and doesn't push out enough.

The only issue with that is Shaw could do with a rest and his last game as a CB was poor. The only thing Lindelof has is being fresh. It's still a leap of faith for me for either/or imo, hence why I question 'Lindelof looks good with Martinez'.

As for Casemiro, of course he's been a massive improvement and undoubtedly has helped our defence. That still doesn't take away the fact Martinez and Varane have been superior in every other way. I can name on one hand the amount of times e.g Martinez has been 'done' on the channels, James against Fulham, Antonio against West Ham and Salah against Liverpool. Yet for everyone one of those incidents he's also dealt with multiple dozens more with maximum efficiency and zero fuss, whilst making us more solid and retain possession. Maguire and Lindelof have shown numerous times, they would either dive in reckless (former) or not do anything at all (latter), which resulted in conceding possession and territory.
 
TMDaines said:
I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far. He’s simply done nothing to prove that, but that’s not to say he necessarily won’t over time. He’s clearly a good fit for ETH’s style of football, so I can see why the manager wanted him so much, but I don’t feel as if we are a better side defensively for his presence at this point.

Last season was simply a product of horrendous incompetence under Rangnick, where everyone’s confidence was at rock bottom. Familiarity has therefore bred contempt with some of players who have been here a while.

I think people forget that we were a very decent side under Ole in 19/20 and 20/21, even defensively so. We went on a massive undefeated streak away from home. We’ve already conceded 35 goals this season, yet only did 36 in total in 19/20. Maguire and Lindelöf were quite highly regarded at that time and were the partnership in defence that was better than the one we have now.
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Is there a prize for having the most ridiculous post possible?
 
This week has been a new low for some posts on the caf and we have a winner I think
 
TMDaines said:
I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far.
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ENUXC25UEAAEvXO.jpg
 
Shows how good he's been that people have been waiting 6 months for him to have a bad game so they can criticise him, guessing it's the idiots that wrote him off after 2 games now they're trying to justify it
 
TMDaines said:
I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far. He’s simply done nothing to prove that, but that’s not to say he necessarily won’t over time. He’s clearly a good fit for ETH’s style of football, so I can see why the manager wanted him so much, but I don’t feel as if we are a better side defensively for his presence at this point.

Last season was simply a product of horrendous incompetence under Rangnick, where everyone’s confidence was at rock bottom. Familiarity has therefore bred contempt with some of players who have been here a while.

I think people forget that we were a very decent side under Ole in 19/20 and 20/21, even defensively so. We went on a massive undefeated streak away from home. We’ve already conceded 35 goals this season, yet only did 36 in total in 19/20. Maguire and Lindelöf were quite highly regarded at that time and were the partnership in defence that was better than the one we have now.
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Congrats on having the worst take of the year so far.
 
Sviken said:
I can't believe anyone here would actually imply that Maguire is better than Martinez who more or less has single-handedly transformed our absolutely terrible defense that we were all dreading to watch every time they were on the pitch.
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But that’s exactly the point that myself and a couple of others have been challenging in this thread. Martinez hasn’t “single-handedly transformed” anything yet. We’ve conceded more goals in the league at the same stage this season than we had “with the absolutely terrible defense [sic] that we were all dreading to watch” last season, and that’s with the Single Handed Transformer having the benefit of Casemiro screening him. The defence we had under Ole with Maguire and Lindelöf a couple of seasons ago was comfortably conceding fewer goals per game in the league too.

It’s fine to really rate Martinez. He’s a good player. But people are giving him far too much credit for stuff he hasn’t yet achieved which is what happens when someone becomes a cult hero and all objectivity goes out the window. That’s all.

It’s weird that sharing that you are slightly cooler on Martinez defensively so far, and that you think Maguire and Lindelöf have become unfairly maligned, is such a controversial hot take now, especially when these are all current Manchester United players we are talking about.
 
TMDaines said:
But that’s exactly the point that myself and a couple of others have been challenging in this thread. Martinez hasn’t “single-handedly transformed” anything yet. We’ve conceded more goals in the league at the same stage this season than we had “with the absolutely terrible defense [sic] that we were all dreading to watch” last season, and that’s with the Single Handed Transformer having the benefit of Casemiro screening him. The defence we had under Ole with Maguire and Lindelöf a couple of seasons ago was comfortably conceding fewer goals per game in the league too.

It’s fine to really rate Martinez. He’s a good player. But people are giving him far too much credit for stuff he hasn’t yet achieved which is what happens when someone becomes a cult hero and all objectivity goes out the window. That’s all.

It’s weird that sharing that you are slightly cooler on Martinez defensively so far, and that you think Maguire and Lindelöf have become unfairly maligned, is such a controversial hot take now, especially when these are all current Manchester United players we are talking about.
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Have we? Last year we conceded 57 goals. The season before that which was Ole's best we conceded 44 goals, but the environment was completely different. This year we've only conceded 35 and albeit there are still matches to be played, we've played every top team so far. If it wasn't for the absolute capitulation against Liverpool we'd be pretty much tied with City and Arsenal for the best defense (excluding Newcastle who are far ahead in that department). 17 of our goals were conceded in just 3 freak results in which our entire team basically collapsed. And albeit I don't want to use that as an excuse necessarily, it skews the stats a little bit. Also, haven't we seen Maguire just recently against West Ham? As far as I remember, we were lucky to get out of that 1st half without being 2-0 down at least.
 
Man Utd 4:1 Real Betis
His technique and passing for a CB is unreal.
 
Conceded again with him on the pitch, unbelievable.
 
@GifLord can do us a favour and gif the part where he calmly beat off the press from 3 betis players. That was unreal. Something our captain will never be able to do that.
 
Even he looked a bit shaken and nervous in the first half. Didn't stop him from doing a few fancy turns with the ball though :drool:
Good stuff.
 
Martinez, the way he beats and slips past a Betis player in the attacking half was amazing.

Also, he was so calm when he was surrounded by three Betis players. One of my favorite players right now.
 
Those knee-jerk criticism posts have been quoted enough but it's unthinkable that people don't believe this guy on his own is not a major upgrade. Forget working well with the players around him, just his individual qualities make him stand out. His anticipation when the ball played into the forward's feet, his judgement of aerial balls, his awareness of which passing options to close down when isolated 1v1. We won easily so all of this is easy to appreciate. But he's done this all season.

Haven't even started on his offensive qualities. Expecting this level of dribbling out of pressure every time is maybe too much but his passing between the lines was great as usual.
 
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Having him at centre half seems like cheat code. He’s absolutely outrageous
 
He's all right but I'm still not convinced. We won lot of games with Shaw, Lindelof or Maguire instead of him.
 
One of my favourite things about him is he actually heads the ball to team mates most of the time. Such an underrated part of recycling possession and keeping the pressure on. Some players seem to think it’s a contest to see who can head it highest…
 
Khadaad said:
Those knee-jerk criticism posts have been quoted enough but it's unthinkable that people don't believe this guy on his own is not a major upgrade.
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The annoying thing is everybody had a shit day together. Him, varane, Shaw, casemiro, etc.
Normally you would get one or two and hope the others can carry them through it or bail the team mates out. Everyone just put in a shit show at the same time against the worst possible opponent who managed to score with every strike on target ...

Anyway it's great seeing him on the ball
 
TMDaines said:
I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far. He’s simply done nothing to prove that, but that’s not to say he necessarily won’t over time. He’s clearly a good fit for ETH’s style of football, so I can see why the manager wanted him so much, but I don’t feel as if we are a better side defensively for his presence at this point.

Last season was simply a product of horrendous incompetence under Rangnick, where everyone’s confidence was at rock bottom. Familiarity has therefore bred contempt with some of players who have been here a while.

I think people forget that we were a very decent side under Ole in 19/20 and 20/21, even defensively so. We went on a massive undefeated streak away from home. We’ve already conceded 35 goals this season, yet only did 36 in total in 19/20. Maguire and Lindelöf were quite highly regarded at that time and were the partnership in defence that was better than the one we have now.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Sunday's result has brought out the Ole and Maguire fan clubs. You lot are literally waiting in the wings to 'prove your point'. It's like the bloke who waited 6-months to pop back up and show us all that Casemiro is shite. You lot don't deserve nice things.

Anyhow, Martinez yeah, what a beast.
 
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