Lionel Messi

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

Total bs, he was largely instrumental in the only goal they got from open play. Wasn’t good, but was still a top 2 player for the team although it was a bad performance for everyone.

None of what I said was BS. Suarez did everything for his goal, if it wasn't for his brilliance, Barcelona would not have scored at all.

Messi was an utter shame this whole game. He has no one to blame but himself as he yet again is found out in CL knockout rounds.

 

[Daysleeper]

None of what I said was BS. Suarez did everything for his goal, if it wasn't for his brilliance, Barcelona would not have scored at all.

Messi was an utter shame this whole game. He has no one to blame but himself as he yet again is found out in CL knockout rounds.

And Ronaldo has been getting exposed badly ever since he left Real Madrid. Worst CL patch for him in years. Life is harder without modric and kroos

 

[Gehrman]

 

[Green_Red]

He looks like he starting to lose his legs a bit. I think this is the worst Barca team he has played in. Pique was utter shite for a few of the goals too.

 

[Zehner]

If you're going with he's "been great" for Argentina there's no need to discuss this.

Of course he's been great for Argentina very often. Claiming anything else is delusional

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't think he's got the legs to make multiple high-burst accelerative actions per half anymore., and if you're not going to make those key bursting actions as and when they are needed in that position, you're going to be a real liability as you can't be relied upon.

At least as a #10 he can make the ball do the running and concern yourself with energy/game management a lot more whilst still being extremely effective and threatening, but he'd have to do a lot more perpetual jogging and work to find space than he currently does, so it's a different kind of stamina and utilisation of his tank. Riquelme rarely broke into anything more than a modest jog, but he had the perpetual jogging thing down to a tee.

I think whatever does happen with Messi, he needs to be prepared to work in a different way in acceptance he's not the same type of player he used to be. He's got the tools and skills to rework his game, but his stamina and energy management really needs addressing - he can't be ambling around like that with the responsibility he has in the team as by far their best player (d'uh).

I feel like if you use him a #10 with his insistence on not running, you're automatically outnumbered in midfield.

 

[Fortitude]

I feel like if you use him a #10 with his insistence on not running, you're automatically outnumbered in midfield.

But typically, in the old 3-man backline set-ups, you have 2 workhorses in midfield behind your creative god picking up all the slack and recycling the ball to him as routinely and expeditiously as possible. You supplement that with fantastic wing-backs for both width and easy offensive out balls (to then relay back inside to the hub) and you've essentially got 4 men whose job is to work their balls off and let the #10 get on with creating magic and causing havoc.

As I was saying yesterday, it'd take a big clear out of personnel and re-jigging of system, but if there's any player on the planet it's worth entertaining such a system for, it's Messi.

I suppose the other alternative is Messi at SS behind a striker, but he would need to work a lot harder than he currently does to fulfill the remit of the position, which I don't think he's got in him at his age against the kind of intense pressing and pressure he has especially reserved for him. Think it's also far too narrow for the modern age and even more unsuited to Barcelona than switching to a wing-back system.

 

[Cal?]

Of course he's been great for Argentina very often. Claiming anything else is delusional

Backtrack further to occasionally and we can agree.

 

[cyberman]

One of the goals was a last min penalty against Atletico when they were already winning 3-1 after being saved by Ramos and Bale. So what I said still holds.

Fair play he scored against Chelsea but bottled the pen and had to rely on a comical mishap from Terry.

You cant yes but CL final goals. The only reason why Messi doesnt have goalless finals is because he cant get there anymore.

 

[steffyr2]

He started the game quite well but the problem with being a 1 man team is that when the game has gone, there is nothing you can do to stop the avalanche.

He should do more defensively given the position Barca are playing him. On the flip side though, Barca should recognise he’s not going to track back and put him further forward so he doesn’t have to. I know he’s lost some of his pace but he’s still got enough over 5-10 yards to go past players and he would be devastating as a support striker, playing off Suarez.

The issue stems from Barca having recruited so badly in the last 5 years. They’ve spent incredible sums of money on players who haven’t performed. They had an amazing 5 year spell where their academy spit out players like Puyol, Pique, Fabregas, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pedro and probably more I’ve forgotten. But they fell into the trap of thinking that was going to be the norm. No academy can do that. Much like our class of 92, it’s a one off and may never happen again. Ajax have done it a few times over the last 50 years, but again it’s not consistent.

They are where we were 2 years ago, except they’ve got the best player in the world bailing them out on a regular basis. No one can be expected to do that every time, especially against Europe’s best teams. Maradona had bad games believe it or not and actually had some pretty useful players around him in a functional tactical system.

There is a long term rebuild needed there like there was here. Messi doesn’t have time on his side to wait for that rebuild to be completed. I’m also not sure the Barcelona board have the patience to let a manager come in and do it. Whoever is in charge of their recruitment needs replacing as well if it’s not the managers buying the players.

Seems like it's possible that excellent players coming into the team won't be quite as willing to be a Messi satellite. Perhaps that's why the team doesn't work as well.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

But typically, in the old 3-man backline set-ups, you have 2 workhorses in midfield behind your creative god picking up all the slack and recycling the ball to him as routinely and expeditiously as possible. You supplement that with fantastic wing-backs for both width and easy offensive out balls (to then relay back inside to the hub) and you've essentially got 4 men whose job is to work their balls off and let the #10 get on with creating magic and causing havoc.

As I was saying yesterday, it'd take a big clear out of personnel and re-jigging of system, but if there's any player on the planet it's worth entertaining such a system for, it's Messi.

I suppose the other alternative is Messi at SS behind a striker, but he would need to work a lot harder than he currently does to fulfill the remit of the position, which I don't think he's got in him at his age against the kind of intense pressing and pressure he has especially reserved for him. Think it's also far too narrow for the modern age and even more unsuited to Barcelona than switching to a wing-back system.

Ah you meant in a 3 back.

I thought you meant in a 4 back system with a double pivot behind Messi.

If it's a 3 back, I agree with you. He should be fine as a #10 then.

 

[Fortitude]

Ah you meant in a 3 back.

I thought you meant in a 4 back system with a double pivot behind Messi.

If it's a 3 back, I agree with you. He should be fine as a #10 then.

I think Messi is pretty much done in big games as a player in a 4-man [backline] system. He can't have that level of output in systems that rely on him to put in shift against high energy/intensity opponents. Even if Barca are intent on sticking to the status quo, they need that second system for these games if they want to optimise Messi, imo.

I think he'd be fine if he learns to manage his energy better - can't ever remember him being a perpetual jogger - so it does still require him to learn some new tricks to make him a proper fit to the role. Casually walking around and not working for that initial space to make half-turns etc. could just see him squeezed out of games as easily as last night, so yeah, whatever comes next, I think he's got to pull he sleeves up and take on the challenge as unless he has some kind of illness, he shouldn't be too big to move like whatever role he has asks of him.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think Messi is pretty much done in big games as a player in a 4-man [backline] system. He can't have that level of output in systems that rely on him to put in shift against high energy/intensity opponents. Even if Barca are intent on sticking to the status quo, they need that second system for these games if they want to optimise Messi, imo.

I think he'd be fine if he learns to manage his energy better - can't ever remember him being a perpetual jogger - so it does still require him to learn some new tricks to make him a proper fit to the role. Casually walking around and not working for that initial space to make half-turns etc. could just see him squeezed out of games as easily as last night, so yeah, whatever comes next, I think he's got to pull he sleeves up and take on the challenge as unless he has some kind of illness, he shouldn't be too big to move like whatever role he has asks of him.

I agree with you.

He needs to take a hard look at himself.

I worry he is a bit tactically naive. That he doesn't realize he's hurting the team through his style of play lately. No one is asking him to run his socks off for 90 minutes, but he can't be walking about in the field in big games.

 

[VorZakone]

It's unhealthy and unprofessional for a club to suck up to a player, no matter how good he is. Everything is geared towards making dear Messi as comfortable as possible and not upsetting him.

Meanwhile he's walking around while his team can't cope with the opponent's physicality. His current quality doesn't justify his current wages.

 

[I_live_cement]

Did both Barca and Juve get knocked out due to Messi and Ronaldo? No, the teams weren't good enough.

It's that simple.

Another thing that's simple for any football fan is to simply use your eyes and see that Messi is by far the most complete footballer that's ever played the game.

 

[Fortitude]

I agree with you.

He needs to take a hard look at himself.

I worry he is a bit tactically naive. That he doesn't realize he's hurting the team through his style of play lately. No one is asking him to run his socks off for 90 minutes, but he can't be walking about in the field in big games.

One thing I've always thought of Messi is that he doesn't realise other players limitations at times - walking football is possible if you're constantly being found by other phenomenal players who can still pick you out in the smallest pockets of space and windows: Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar and Busquets all used to do this to the point nothing was 'wrong' with not moving and working for space. They could find him and he'd relay the ball and then the chain would just extrapolate from there.

That stuff doesn't work when the quality of player surrounding you hasn't the ability or confidence to thread the ball through to a player who is heavily marked and being swarmed. I don't know if Messi picks up on that and sees the need to work for space is important not just to make life easier for him, but to make him available for team-mates who would otherwise be hesitant to try, what are for them, very difficult passes.

I guess when you're Messi, you've never really had to think in a way that accommodates others because your ability generally made up for their handicap and converting innocuous balls into threatening plays has been bread and butter, even this season. The problem is when thrust into this top CL games, the intensity and specialised tactics go up levels and it seems he, and his team, are caught cold time and time again as they're not allowed to play in the fashion they're used to and all of a sudden have massive amounts of work to do just to find space for themselves, let alone to get a picture of the pitch or their teammates and pace themselves accordingly. I feel that's when he and his side as a whole get 'found out' and have that shell shock that is all too familiar by now (last night it looked like PTSD!).

He needs a proper team around him more than ever now, but also needs to acknowledge he himself has to work on his fitness and movement.

 

[gerdm07]

I think Manchester United should ask about buying Messi for these reasons.

1. Messi, with so many older players at Barca, has to know the chances of them competing in the CL again in the next two years is very slim. There are just too many changes needed.
2. Messi, at 33, needs a team to compete with now. He does not have time for a rebuild.
3. Messi would make Man Utd one of the favorites for the PL and CL.
4. The PL would be a great way to round off his great career.
5. Man Utd are one of the few clubs which could afford him.

Let's offer 160 million and see what happens.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think Manchester United should ask about buying Messi for these reasons.

1. Messi, with so many older players at Barca, has to know the chances of them competing in the CL again in the next two years is very slim. There are just too many changes needed.
2. Messi, at 33, needs a team to compete with now. He does not have time for a rebuild.
3. Messi would make Man Utd one of the favorites for the PL and CL.
4. The PL would be a great way to round off his great career.
5. Man Utd are one of the few clubs which could afford him.

Let's offer 160 million and see what happens.

I highly doubt Messi wants to leave.

And I don't think buying Messi now is worth it. I'd rather have a team than a Messi-centric team.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I think Manchester United should ask about buying Messi for these reasons.

1. Messi, with so many older players at Barca, has to know the chances of them competing in the CL again in the next two years is very slim. There are just too many changes needed.
2. Messi, at 33, needs a team to compete with now. He does not have time for a rebuild.
3. Messi would make Man Utd one of the favorites for the PL and CL.
4. The PL would be a great way to round off his great career.
5. Man Utd are one of the few clubs which could afford him.

Let's offer 160 million and see what happens.

Messi can leave for free this summer (allegedly).

Even if he couldn’t, he wouldn’t command anywhere near that sort of fee. Clearly age is a factor, and if Messi wants to actually leave, Barcelona are not going to stop him.

If he goes, which I doubt, it will be on a free or something nominal.

He’s not coming to the PL, unless he’s going to City.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Messi can leave for free this summer (allegedly).

Even if he couldn’t, he wouldn’t command anywhere near that sort of fee. Clearly age is a factor, and if Messi wants to actually leave, Barcelona are not going to stop him.

If he goes, which I doubt, it will be on a free or something nominal.

He’s not coming to the PL, unless he’s going to City.

The clause that let him leave for free this summer has expired.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

The clause that let him leave for free this summer has expired.

Ok. Still, if he really wants to leave I don’t think it will be a big transfer.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

And Ronaldo has been getting exposed badly ever since he left Real Madrid. Worst CL patch for him in years. Life is harder without modric and kroos

Ronaldo has proven himself in virtually every top league in the world. Messi thrives in the Barcelona system and will never in his life leave his comfort zone. As soon as any challenge comes his way, he sticks to what he knows best - his comfort zone. Hides more than his CL knockout goals.

 

[Daysleeper]

Ronaldo has proven himself in virtually every top league in the world. Messi thrives in the Barcelona system and will never in his life leave his comfort zone. As soon as any challenge comes his way, he sticks to what he knows best - his comfort zone. Hides more than his CL knockout goals.

Wrong, Ronaldo went to Juventus and they got their lowest trophy count in 8 years. He leaves Madrid, they win the league. He isn’t challenging anything, hence rumours of him wanting to go to PSG. He’s back to early CL exits without Madrid.

 

[Amerifan]

Messi can leave for free this summer (allegedly).

Even if he couldn’t, he wouldn’t command anywhere near that sort of fee. Clearly age is a factor, and if Messi wants to actually leave, Barcelona are not going to stop him.

If he goes, which I doubt, it will be on a free or something nominal.

He’s not coming to the PL, unless he’s going to City.

Even on a free I don’t think City can afford the impact of Messi on their wage structure. Just look at what it did to Barca’s finances.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Wrong, Ronaldo went to Juventus and they got their lowest trophy count in 8 years. He leaves Madrid, they win the league. He isn’t challenging anything, hence rumours of him wanting to go to PSG. He’s back to early CL exits without Madrid.

Oh come on, just stop the winding up games, Ronaldo did win 2 league titles in past 2 years, Madrid only won one, and Messi didn't win anything even from his comfort zone this year, even losing to Madrid, so is he even worst then? In terms of trophies count in past 2 years, Ronaldo>Madrid/Messi/Barca, is that how you want to put it?

 

[Jackal981]

Never lost 6-2 to Messi Now you are making up games and everything.

Your having a full meltdown on here this is wild

6-2 what ? That was before Ronaldo. Stop spouting bollox mate

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

Wrong, Ronaldo went to Juventus and they got their lowest trophy count in 8 years. He leaves Madrid, they win the league. He isn’t challenging anything, hence rumours of him wanting to go to PSG. He’s back to early CL exits without Madrid.

He's won titles in England, Spain and Italy. No matter what you cannot cope with that fact. Keep spoonfeeding Messi the barca system though.

This will be my last post in this thread.

 

[SportingCP96]

6-2 what ? That was before Ronaldo. Stop spouting bollox mate

I know .... that’s what I was saying mate!

I think you got me confused.

 

[Jackal981]

I know .... that’s what I was saying mate!

I think you got me confused.

Sorry, I meant to reply to that Messi fanboy.

 

[Daysleeper]

He's won titles in England, Spain and Italy. No matter what you cannot cope with that fact. Keep spoonfeeding Messi the barca system though.

This will be my last post in this thread.

Winning titles with United and Juventus, two teams who have historically won tons of titles before Ronaldo doesn’t mean much. United won a title and went to a Cl final after he left. Juventus has their lowest trophy count since he arrived.

Cheers

 

[Daysleeper]

Oh come on, just stop the winding up games, Ronaldo did win 2 league titles in past 2 years, Madrid only won one, and Messi didn't win anything even from his comfort zone this year, even losing to Madrid, so is he even worst then? In terms of trophies count in past 2 years, Ronaldo>Madrid/Messi/Barca, is that how you want to put it?

Juventus won the title 8 straight years, it’s not an accomplishment.

 

[Jackal981]

Winning titles with United and Juventus, two teams who have historically won tons of titles before Ronaldo doesn’t mean much. United won a title and went to a Cl final after he left. Juventus has their lowest trophy count since he arrived.

Cheers

Messi won feck all this year, even got pipped by Real this year in the league. Weakest Real side in years. What does that say about him ?

 

[Daysleeper]

Messi wen feck all this year, even got pipped by Real this year in the league. Weakest Real side in years. What does that say about him ?

That he didn’t get piped in a cup final by a Napoli side who beat Juventus. What does that say about Ronaldo? And he still broke the all time assist record. 20+ goals and 20+ assists is something that hasn’t been done since 2004 in ANY of the top 5 leagues. Messi also tied the all time assist record in top 5 leagues. Individually he had some historical numbers with his goals and assists. Dybala was serie a mvp, for Barca nobody was close to Messi.

 

[Jackal981]

That he didn’t get piped in a cup final by a Napoli side who beat Juventus. What does that say about Ronaldo? And he still broke the all time assist record. 20+ goals and 20+ assists is something that hasn’t been done since 2004 in ANY of the top 5 leagues. Messi also tied the all time assist record in top 5 leagues. Individually he had some historical numbers with his goals and assists. Dybala was serie a mvp, for Barca nobody was close to Messi.

At least he got to the final. You lot got dumped by Bilbao in CDR QF . Jesus christ. Last time I checked Bilbao was 11th in the league !!

 

[Daysleeper]

At least he got to the final. You lot got dumped by Bilbao in CDR QF . Jesus christ.

And how many CdR had Ronaldo won when he was here? “At least he got to the final” haha it’s juve’s lowest trophy count in 8 years.

And Barca smashes Napoli thanks to messi.

Cute of you to come into this thread as a newbie and fan boy Ronaldo in a messi thread. Says it all really

 

[Daysleeper]

At least he got to the final. You lot got dumped by Bilbao in CDR QF . Jesus christ. Last time I checked Bilbao was 11th in the league !!

And Bilbao are in the CdR final, they beat everyone else as well so far

 

[Jackal981]

And how many CdR had Ronaldo won when he was here? “At least he got to the final” haha it’s juve’s lowest trophy count in 8 years.

And Barca smashes Napoli thanks to messi.

Cute of you to come into this thread as a newbie and fan boy Ronaldo in a messi thread. Says it all really

You mad there are Ronaldo fans in United forum ? Says it all really. Go back to wherever hole you come from to whatever Barca forum there is . And keep moving the goalpost. Don’t get stressed mate, the worst has yet to come. You lot will be banished to obscurity ala early 2000s. More than a club my arse

 

[Daysleeper]

You mad there are Ronaldo fans in United forum ? Says it all really. Go back to wherever hole you come from to whatever Barca forum there is . And keep moving the goalpost. Don’t get stressed mate, the worst has yet to come. You lot will be banished to obscurity ala early 2000s. More than a club my arse

Haha on a united forum that voted Messi as the better player. Could not make it up hahaha

 

[Daysleeper]

Says it all really

 

[amolbhatia50k]

That poll was rigged. Never forget.

Indeed

Total bs, he was largely instrumental in the only goal they got from open play. Wasn’t good, but was still a top 2 player for the team although it was a bad performance for everyone.

He's Ronaldo's mum though.

He's won titles in England, Spain and Italy. No matter what you cannot cope with that fact. Keep spoonfeeding Messi the barca system though.

This will be my last post in this thread.

Juventus won it before him and will win it after him. They look as unimpressive as ever with him. People look for reasons to big up players they have a hard on for. Hence this "multiple leagues" and "systems" rubbish to make excuses for that player being inferior. As if Messi wouldn't have won the PL had he moved there.