Lionel Messi

[giorno]

We might have reached the point in his career where Messi is still individually the best player in the world, but at the very top you can't have him on your team and be the best team in the world

Why would bayern, or city for that matter, or liverpool, etc, want him when the high press is their biggest strength? And they're the best sides in the world largely because of it?

PS this is also true of Cristiano btw. Will be interesting to see the progress of Neymar and Mbappé

 

[SportingCP96]

Exactly. Ronaldo is losing to mid table clubs and teams that don’t even get to the CL final while he gets the earliest exits of his CL career in over a decade because Kroos and modric aren’t behind him, and Ramos and bale aren’t there to score during the times Ronaldo has an off game. Barca have been humilated for sure but Liverpool and Bayern are two of the three or so best teams since 2011 Barca

How about getting destroyed by Roma in another game where Barca played with 10 men because #10 did not show up?

1. Ronaldo dismantled Bayern every time he faced them.

2. Juve are worse then even this pathetic Barca team.

3. Ronaldo has had many different midfield behind him and he was always the same....Now if you look at the other side of the pond the moment Xavi and iniesta left it was almost like Messi was not the same player.

 

[izec]

Thought there was a Messi vs Ronaldo thread. Pity i am not a mod, would ban you all

 

[sammsky1]

not really a great motivational captain, is he?

 

[SportingCP96]

not really a great motivational captain, is he?

A player with that mentality can never be the goat. Talent alone does not make someone a Goat.

 

[sun_tzu]

Too many players over 30... its going to be a massive job to rebuild as this time next year they will have
Suarez 34
Pique 34
Vidal 34
Messi 34
Rakitic 33
Business 33
Alba 32
Pjanic 31
Griezman 30
And Roberto at 29

They probably need to ship at least half of that lot out but given covid i doubt many of them will get offers from other clubs and even if they got rid of the ones whose contracts expire this summer (messi, vidal, suarez, rakitic) they probably have not got the transfer funds to buy in top level replacements (eg getting 2 of Neymar, mbappe, sancho, haaland ) plus a midfielder will cost probabky 300m or more

I think its going to be a 2 or 3 year job taking a good amount of funds and a good amount of luck (players developing etc) in order to build a top team there and im not sure the culture exists to give a manager say three seasons with no expectation of trophies (no wonder xavi seems to want to wait to take over)

 

[SportingCP96]

Too many players over 30... its going to be a massive job to rebuild as this time next year they will have
Suarez 34
Pique 34
Vidal 34
Messi 34
Rakitic 33
Business 33
Alba 32
Pjanic 31
Griezman 30
And Roberto at 29

They probably need to ship at least half of that lot out but given covid i doubt many of them will get offers from other clubs and even if they got rid of the ones whose contracts expire this summer (messi, vidal, suarez, rakitic) they probably have not got the transfer funds to buy in top level replacements (eg getting 2 of Neymar, mbappe, sancho, haaland ) plus a midfielder will cost probabky 300m or more

I think its going to be a 2 or 3 year job taking a good amount of funds and a good amount of luck (players developing etc) in order to build a top team there and im not sure the culture exists to give a manager say three seasons with no expectation of trophies (no wonder xavi seems to want to wait to take over)

Will be interesting to see the kind of minutes Trincao and Fati get.

 

[sun_tzu]

Will be interesting to see the kind of minutes Trincao and Fati get.

Pedri joins next season as well I believe

 

[Zehner]

The sad thing is... he is not and has not been for a very long time.

You lot are living in la la land.

Ronaldo has overtaken him long ago. Would take a major win for Argentina for the conversation to really be debatable again if we are being completely honest.

A thousand ghost drivers on the road today again, I guess.

 

[Fortitude]

Can people stop with the Ronaldo nonsense in here? There's literally a thread for that.

 

[L1nk]

He is the best player this game has ever seen, probably the most naturally gifted with a football. But everything comes to an end, I have no doubt he can still produce the magic he has done time and time again even to this day, Barcelona has been so poorly mismanaged for seasons now though, and as good as Messi is, it's still a team game. His attitude seems to have become apathetic, i would honestly love to see him challenge himself for a few years at a different club, because Barcelona are going to need years to rebuild

 

[trims]

He did his job. He literally scored all over Juve's goals.

How many did he score against Lyon in the crucial away leg? He was pretty toothless in that game when Juve need him most and it cost them the tie.

The sad thing is... he is not and has not been for a very long time.

You lot are living in la la land.

Ronaldo has overtaken him long ago. Would take a major win for Argentina for the conversation to really be debatable again if we are being completely honest.

Ronaldo has definitely cemented his position by getting knocked out against minnows in the QF in the past 2 years. Shows how ineffective he is when doesn't have Kroos or Modric behind him or getting bailed out by Ramos and Bale.

 

[The Irish Connection]

He is the best player this game has ever seen, probably the most naturally gifted with a football. But everything comes to an end, I have no doubt he can still produce the magic he has done time and time again even to this day, Barcelona has been so poorly mismanaged for seasons now though, and as good as Messi is, it's still a team game. His attitude seems to have become apathetic, i would honestly love to see him challenge himself for a few years at a different club, because Barcelona are going to need years to rebuild

You could still see bits of magic from him last night, but off the ball he can be a bit unhelpful in the big, high intensity games.

 

[GatoLoco]

How many did he score against Lyon in the crucial away leg? He was pretty toothless in that game when Juve need him most and it cost them the tie.

It doesn't make sense to focus on one game of your choice. Messi is the best La Liga player ever but Cristiano has been superior to Messi in the Champions League. The Portuguese has been way more decisive from quarters on during his whole career and that's not even up for debate.

Imo we have to speak about these things and stop treating them as a taboo. Yes, Messi is one of the most technically gifted players ever, more than Ronaldo BUT in terms of leadership, charisma and mentality, in spite of still being great, he falls short to some other legends like Maradona, Cruyff or Ronaldo.

 

[SportingCP96]

How many did he score against Lyon in the crucial away leg? He was pretty toothless in that game when Juve need him most and it cost them the tie.



Ronaldo has definitely cemented his position by getting knocked out against minnows in the QF in the past 2 years. Shows how ineffective he is when doesn't have Kroos or Modric behind him or getting bailed out by Ramos and Bale.

Ya bailed out by literal scoring almost 20 a season in the CL alone taking them all the way to the finals. 3x in a row.

 

[balaks]

A player with that mentality can never be the goat. Talent alone does not make someone a Goat.

You don't half talk some nonsense. To suggest Messi doesn't have a good mentality is laughable. No way can you sustain the level he has at the very top of the game for many years without an exceptional mentality.

 

[Daysleeper]

How about getting destroyed by Roma in another game where Barca played with 10 men because #10 did not show up?

1. Ronaldo dismantled Bayern every time he faced them.

2. Juve are worse then even this pathetic Barca team.

3. Ronaldo has had many different midfield behind him and he was always the same....Now if you look at the other side of the pond the moment Xavi and iniesta left it was almost like Messi was not the same player.

Messi has been amazing even after xavi left, Ronaldo is now getting knocked out Estrien than ever to a terrible mid table Lyon team. Remember when you said Lyon was a better squad than Juventus and got destroyed for it? Ronaldo is having his worst CL patch since 2006 now that modric isn’t behind him. Roma was a goal away from the CL final. Ronaldo is losing to mid table French teams and getting knocked out of cups by Napoli who Barca dismantled even in their current state.

 

[SportingCP96]

You don't half talk some nonsense. To suggest Messi doesn't have a good mentality is laughable. No way can you sustain the level he has at the very top of the game for many years without an exceptional mentality.

I am talking about that big game bug moment mentality. When your back is against the wall type of mentality.

Do you think he would of scored the 3 goals and led his team back like Ronaldo did last year and almost again this year and has done many times before?

What about a free kick in the 90th minute down 3-2?

Did you see how he was at halftime yesterday? or when he quit on his country after he missed the crucial penalty?

That is what I am talking about. That killer will/instinct. There is a reason Ronaldo has double the goals of any other player ever in the CL knockout rounds. The cream de la creme of top level football and he shines brightest in those circumstances.

Obviously to achieve what he has he had to have good professional mentality. Things that guy like Quaresma or even Ravel Morrison lacked which stopped them from achieving what there potential could have.

 

[Daysleeper]

The sad thing is... he is not and has not been for a very long time.

You lot are living in la la land.

Ronaldo has overtaken him long ago. Would take a major win for Argentina for the conversation to really be debatable again if we are being completely honest.

And yet 95% of managers and players all take Messi. By a wide margin. Ronaldo with his early cl exits and desperation to jump to another team that always wins the league (like psg) reeks of desperation. His Juventus move has been a disaster

 

[Daysleeper]

Abject performance by him. The only chance he created was from a cross that came from a corner. Everything else was neither here nor there. He also could've scored a wonder goal but from the 20th minute he found it hard to have any sort of sustained influence on the match.

His work rate is a joke at this point. He's never tracked back much but he used to at least join in on the pressing now he pretty much just stands around. What's even more disappointing is that he takes an age to get back onside so the quick pass to him is never an option.

I've often found it strange when people thought he could play in midfield given how many balls he gives away in that area if under pressure. He always wants to dribble his way out of trouble which is asking for trouble. He was lucky he got some soft fouls in those moments last night, but then didn't learn his lesson and eventually did get robbed in midfield. Sure, in space he can play a pretty pass but that's not all there is to being a midfielder.

His game falls apart when Barca aren't in control of possession. Not much of a threat on the break and never shows the urgency to move into a position to receive the ball when they win it back. Doesnt run the channels either when playing in a front 2 like last night.

Him being the best player in the world is a thing of the past. His big game performances just don't cut it. He can still tear into Eibar or Mallocra but against Madrid, Bayern and the likes don't expect too much. I mean even after a good home leg performance vs Pool last season he wasn't looking like scoring at Anfield.

He created every single chance against Liverpool (all 8) in the second leg. He was comfortably the best CL player last year

 

[Daysleeper]

I am talking about that big game bug moment mentality. When your back is against the wall type of mentality.

Do you think he would of scored the 3 goals and led his team back like Ronaldo did last year and almost again this year and has done many times before?

What about a free kick in the 90th minute down 3-2?

Did you see how he was at halftime yesterday? or when he quit on his country after he missed the crucial penalty?

That is what I am talking about. That killer will/instinct. There is a reason Ronaldo has double the goals of any other player ever in the CL knockout rounds. The cream de la creme of top level football and he shines brightest in those circumstances.

Obviously to achieve what he has he had to have good professional mentality. Things that guy like Quaresma or even Ravel Morrison lacked which stopped them from achieving what there potential could have.

Ronaldo would get smoked by this Bayern as you complain they aren’t even as good of a squad as Lyon. He couldn’t even get past Lyon, just one goal from open play, and got knocked out by a Napoli team in a cup. This myth of Ronaldo powering the team through in CL is long dead. He’s getting knocked out not even teams that win the completion but by teams that also fall short.

 

[balaks]

I am talking about that big game bug moment mentality. When your back is against the wall type of mentality.

Do you think he would of scored the 3 goals and led his team back like Ronaldo did last year and almost again this year and has done many times before?

What about a free kick in the 90th minute down 3-2?

Did you see how he was at halftime yesterday? or when he quit on his country after he missed the crucial penalty?

That is what I am talking about. That killer will/instinct. There is a reason Ronaldo has double the goals of any other player ever in the CL knockout rounds. The cream de la creme of top level football and he shines brightest in those circumstances.

Obviously to achieve what he has he had to have good professional mentality. Things that guy like Quaresma or even Ravel Morrison lacked which stopped them from achieving what there potential could have.

Why do you always have to try and dismiss stuff related to Messi as if it's some competition that you can only be on one side of vs CR? I honestly dont get it, both are absolutely incredible players and all time greats. Just be happy we have had the chance to watch both in their prime. You prefer CR, fine I get it. You don't need to try and downplay anything to do with Messi to be a CR fan - that just comes across as insecurity on your part.

 

[SportingCP96]

Messi has been amazing even after xavi left, Ronaldo is now getting knocked out Estrien than ever to a terrible mid table Lyon team. Remember when you said Lyon was a better squad than Juventus and got destroyed for it? Ronaldo is having his worst CL patch since 2006 now that modric isn’t behind him. Roma was a goal away from the CL final. Ronaldo is losing to mid table French teams and getting knocked out of cups by Napoli who Barca dismantled even in their current state.

Your last sentence proved my point so thank you.

Juve are the worst "top team" in Europe and it is not even close. There are only 2 attacking threats not that team and the defense and mid is non existent.

Lyon created better chances in 2 legs then Juve did...THAT was my point.

Ronaldo is still the same a Juve with or without "Modric" so your point makes zero sense at all.

He quite literally has scored EVERY Juve goal in the knockout rounds for the past 2 years. Which shows you the lack of quality In the team that they have not held up there end. The squad is 10x worse than Barca and Barca are not even that good either, That says it all.

He had to literally claw his team back from the dead in back to back season. Please lets not even compare

 

[Daysleeper]

It must really hurt your arse that Madrid won three on the trot.

Nah, thing of the past and during that time we absolutely owned Madrid time and time again in the league. Some of their most humiliating losses in recent times at our hands. Must hurt for you to remember those

 

[SportingCP96]

Ronaldo would get smoked by this Bayern as you complain they aren’t even as good of a squad as Lyon. He couldn’t even get past Lyon, just one goal from open play, and got knocked out by a Napoli team in a cup. This myth of Ronaldo powering the team through in CL is long dead. He’s getting knocked out not even teams that win the completion but by teams that also fall short.

He literally did it last season what the hell are you on about.

I am saying Bayern have dismantled Barca 2x now.

Ronaldo and Madrid dismantled Bayern every time they played/

 

[Daysleeper]

Your last sentence proved my point so thank you.

Juve are the worst "top team" in Europe and it is not even close. There are only 2 attacking threats not that team and the defense and mid is non existent.

Lyon created better chances in 2 legs then Juve did...THAT was my point.

Ronaldo is still the same a Juve with or without "Modric" so your point makes zero sense at all.

He quite literally has scored EVERY Juve goal in the knockout rounds for the past 2 years. Which shows you the lack of quality In the team that they have not held up there end. The squad is 10x worse than Barca and Barca are not even that good either, That says it all.

He had to literally claw his team back from the dead in back to back season. Please lets not even compare

He had to claw his team back against mid table teams and failed spectacularly. The difference is Barca were huge underdogs vs Bayern while Juventus were the heavy favorites against Lyon. He wasn’t even good enough to get Juventus to play a good team. Ronaldo isn’t really relevant as Messi breaks all time assist records on the season. Praising Ronaldo for one goal from open play against a team worse than anyone Barca had to play recently in CL says it all.

 

[SportingCP96]

Why do you always have to try and dismiss stuff related to Messi as if it's some competition that you can only be on one side of vs CR? I honestly dont get it, both are absolutely incredible players and all time greats. Just be happy we have had the chance to watch both in their prime. You prefer CR, fine I get it. You don't need to try and downplay anything to do with Messi to be a CR fan - that just comes across as insecurity on your part.

I dont.

In fact my top 2 all time players are exactly these 2 men. Which shows how highly I think of Messi.

The problem is Messi fans are always in the Ronaldo threads for years like insecure girls downplaying everything he does and then the moment people go and do the same they feel defensive.

 

[SportingCP96]

He had to claw his team back against mid table teams and failed spectacularly. The difference is Barca were huge underdogs vs Bayern while Juventus were the heavy favorites against Lyon. He wasn’t even good enough to get Juventus to play a good team. Ronaldo isn’t really relevant as Messi breaks all time assist records on the season. Praising Ronaldo for one goal from open play against a team worse than anyone Barca had to play recently in CL says it all.

Failed? He is the only one who showed up

Jesus he really gets to you huh

 

[Daysleeper]

He literally did it last season what the hell are you on about.

I am saying Bayern have dismantled Barca 2x now.

Ronaldo and Madrid dismantled Bayern every time they played/

2012 Bayern dismantled Madrid wtf you on about? And this years Bayern is ten times better than any Bayern side Ronaldo faced during his time with Madrid. You
Know who also dismantled Ronaldo at Madrid? Barca and Messi, tons of times

 

[Daysleeper]

I dont.

In fact my top 2 all time players are exactly these 2 men. Which shows how highly I think of Messi.

The problem is Messi fans are always in the Ronaldo threads for years like insecure girls downplaying everything he does and then the moment people go and do the same they feel defensive.

Oh the irony

 

[mariachi-19]

Nah, thing of the past and during that time we absolutely owned Madrid time and time again in the league. Some of their most humiliating losses in recent times at our hands. Must hurt for you to remember those

I really couldnt care less about Madrid or Ronaldo, but watching butt hurt Barcelona fans try and paint anything other than their club being a complete shambles is humurous. Even then, i've never seen a team with Ronaldo in it get done 8-2.

 

[SportingCP96]

2012 Bayern dismantled Madrid wtf you on about? And this years Bayern is ten times better than any Bayern side Ronaldo faced during his time with Madrid. You
Know who also dismantled Ronaldo at Madrid? Barca and Messi, tons of times

"dismantled" in 2012? They lost on penalties you knob Jesus what are you saying.

 

[JSArsenal]

For everyone chastising Messi for not rallying the troops or playing with a hunger in his belly yesterday.

Have you seen the man throughout his career? That's not his personality. It just seems odd to criticize him for something that isn't natural to him. He's done plenty for Barcelona over the years as well.

He isn't a Roy Keane but he doesn't need to be. Rooney always played with fire in his belly but it didn't help him one iota because the quality just wasn't there. I'm also sure that Troy Deeney would have played his little heart out if he was on the pitch for Barcelona yesterday but Barcelona still would have lost badly.

 

[Daysleeper]

I really couldnt care less about Madrid or Ronaldo, but watching butt hurt Barcelona fans try and paint anything other than their club being a complete shambles is humurous. Even then, i've never seen a team with Ronaldo in it get done 8-2.

When did we say Barca weren't in shambles? Ronaldo has been done 5-0, 6-2, 4-0, 3-0 all at the hands of Messi. And this Bayern team is better than any team Ronaldo has faced since 2011

 

[Daysleeper]

"dismantled" in 2012? They lost on penalties you knob Jesus what are you saying.

And who missed the penalty? Ah yes, Ronaldo. In 2013 Barca were severely injured, and how about all the times Madrid got absolutely annihilated at the hands of Barca.

 

[Daysleeper]

Failed? He is the only one who showed up

Jesus he really gets to you huh

hahahaha showed up with ONE goal from open play, and STILL lost to Lyon? Juventus paid 100M to do even WORSE in CL than they did prior to Ronaldo arriving. They've won th least amount of trophies in the last 8 years with him in charge. And now he wants to run away to PSG.

 

[SportingCP96]

When did we say Barca weren't in shambles? Ronaldo has been done 5-0, 6-2, 4-0, 3-0 all at the hands of Messi. And this Bayern team is better than any team Ronaldo has faced since 2011

Never lost 6-2 with Ronaldo that was before him

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

Exactly. Ronaldo is losing to mid table clubs and teams that don’t even get to the CL final while he gets the earliest exits of his CL career in over a decade because Kroos and modric aren’t behind him, and Ramos and bale aren’t there to score during the times Ronaldo has an off game. Barca have been humilated for sure but Liverpool and Bayern are two of the three or so best teams since 2011 Barca

That's a really dumb point imo. Neither Messi or Ronaldo are or were in their prime a "one man team". They are probably the biggest reason why their respective teams were so dominant but it's still a team game in the end. With that said, Ronaldo still managed to get a decent output and do his part, despite playing with a weaker cast overall. The players failed him against Lyon and in this case Messi was part of the problem along with the rest of the team. I don't share the view that this loss was Messi's fault for some reason but he has a tendency to give up when things get hard. It wasn't the first time and probably it's not going to be the last time neither.

 

[Raoul]

How about getting destroyed by Roma in another game where Barca played with 10 men because #10 did not show up?

1. Ronaldo dismantled Bayern every time he faced them.

2. Juve are worse then even this pathetic Barca team.

3. Ronaldo has had many different midfield behind him and he was always the same....Now if you look at the other side of the pond the moment Xavi and iniesta left it was almost like Messi was not the same player.

Take it to the appropriate thread.

 

[SportingCP96]

hahahaha showed up with ONE goal from open play, and STILL lost to Lyon? Juventus paid 100M to do even WORSE in CL than they did prior to Ronaldo arriving. They've won th least amount of trophies in the last 8 years with him in charge. And now he wants to run away to PSG.

and who scored the goals in those games to get them to penalties Mate you are falling apart here You are on full defense mode and l get it honestly.

One has a 3 peat and is the greatest CL player of all time AND won a major trophy for his country and the other retired for Argentina.