Lionel Messi

Sell Messi? :lol:

The guy was carrying Barcelona this season alone. Replace him with let's say Sancho this season, they wouldn't be 2nd place in the first place and probably outside top 4. Selling Messi will be good idea if they can get more than 200m pounds and use the money to rebuild the squad, but no one is going to pay such a money. Start investing their budget on young players with fresh legs on midfield & defense. Use Messi to buy them more time in their attacking department until they sort out their defense & midfield.
 
Daysleeper said:
Ronaldo has been knocked out in CL by far worse teams than Messi.
Messi isn’t why we conceded 8 goals
Click to expand...
This is such a strange post. Messi has seen his side get regularly humiliated in European competition. Its a time honoured tradition these days.
Id rather go out against Lyon scoring two goals than be a travelling circus that has replaced PSG has the butt of jokes in the footballing world.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Sell Messi? :lol:

The guy was carrying Barcelona this season alone. Replace him with let's say Sancho this season, they wouldn't be 2nd place in the first place and probably outside top 4. Selling Messi will be good idea if they can get more than 200m pounds and use the money to rebuild the squad, no one is going to pay such a money. 100m isn't enough to replace Messi's contribution this season. Start investing their budget on young players with fresh legs on midfield & defense. Use Messi to buy them more time for their attacks rebuild until they sort out their defense & midfield.
Click to expand...

Messi is still an amazing player, but they won’t get a transfer fee for him. His wages mean he would be a free transfer, can he not leave for free this summer in any case?
 
Pack it up lads, it’s now the end of the Messi/Ronaldo era. For the first time in a while both players are now unable to really pull their teams out the shit.

Messi will still have great games here and there. But I think he’s fallen to the human level of top class player. Basically, he isn’t going to win trophies for them alone anymore.
 
cyberman said:
This is such a strange post. Messi has seen his side get regularly humiliated in European competition. Its a time honoured tradition these days.
Id rather go out against Lyon scoring two goals than be a travelling circus that has replaced PSG has the butt of jokes in the footballing world.
Click to expand...


Sure, but losing to the 7th best team in the French league is nothing to hold your head up high about. Ronaldo never faced teams as good as Liverpool or Bayern this season or last because he was knocked out by inferior teams. We have been humiliated a lot in Europe lately but Messi isn’t the issue. He wasn’t even bad in the second leg vs Liverpool (creates all 8 chances we had) but Roma and today were not good. But he isn’t anything close to why we lost those matches. Our defense was woeful and got exposed time and time again. Even 2 goals would normally be enough for most teams to force ET at least. But conceding 8? That’s not on Messi
 
tenpoless said:
All he needs is Lingard to play alongside him, the link up plays between the two could win matches easily. It will also take some pressure from Messi.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Lingard's youthfulness would inject some much needed energy to ageing Barca. His selflessness of always, always relish on giving other responsibility to take any risk, is a great foil to Messi's strength as creative player.
 
11101 said:
True, and it's why hes not quite on the level of the others talked about as the best of all time.

Somebody above said Maradona could not have beaten Bayern last night. Maybe not, but he would have done a lot better than Messi did.
Click to expand...

Not with this Barca squad. Maradonna would have zero support. Even in the 86 word cup he wasn’t the leading scorer for Argentina and their defense was solid. He still had other players step up. He would not have had a hatrick today despite what fantasy you may have, and certainly not at 33 years old when maradonna was finished while Messi was still breaking assist records.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Messi is still an amazing player, but they won’t get a transfer fee for him. His wages mean he would be a free transfer, can he not leave for free this summer in any case?
Click to expand...

Exactly, why letting him go if you can't get money in return to replace him. Probably take a risk to keep him, paying his salary (26m pounds per year is it?) is better than getting rid of him for free with no money to replace him. I think Messi can still play until 35 or 36 years old at top level. 26m per year out from the pocket to buy themselves a time until they sort out their midfield & defense in 2 to 3 years might worth a risk. Still a world class player this season.
 
VivaObertan said:
You're truly relentless aren't you? Messi is one of the GOAT and his poor team collapsing in the CL is no poor reflection on him. Without going tit for tat, Ronaldo just went out vs Lyon... who are nowhere near the level of Bayern. Doesn't change he is one of the GOAT too.
Click to expand...


Exactly. Ronaldo is losing to mid table clubs and teams that don’t even get to the CL final while he gets the earliest exits of his CL career in over a decade because Kroos and modric aren’t behind him, and Ramos and bale aren’t there to score during the times Ronaldo has an off game. Barca have been humilated for sure but Liverpool and Bayern are two of the three or so best teams since 2011 Barca
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Exactly this. Some people can't compare apples with apples.
Click to expand...

Yes but his work rate doesn’t mean he should be sold.

Even Klopp wouldn’t ask Messi to track back because of how much else he does for the team:




Messi needs ten other players with a great work rate so he can focus on what he does best. Having no work rate Suarez up front only compounds the issue.
 
VivaObertan said:
You're truly relentless aren't you? Messi is one of the GOAT and his poor team collapsing in the CL is no poor reflection on him. Without going tit for tat, Ronaldo just went out vs Lyon... who are nowhere near the level of Bayern. Doesn't change he is one of the GOAT too.
Click to expand...

Nah, simply stating he does have a bad game in big stage and shouldn't be free of any blame at all. You don't have to act too defensive on that. He is still a GOAT over his long career, but last night he wasn't showing he is one.
 
He started the game quite well but the problem with being a 1 man team is that when the game has gone, there is nothing you can do to stop the avalanche.

He should do more defensively given the position Barca are playing him. On the flip side though, Barca should recognise he’s not going to track back and put him further forward so he doesn’t have to. I know he’s lost some of his pace but he’s still got enough over 5-10 yards to go past players and he would be devastating as a support striker, playing off Suarez.

The issue stems from Barca having recruited so badly in the last 5 years. They’ve spent incredible sums of money on players who haven’t performed. They had an amazing 5 year spell where their academy spit out players like Puyol, Pique, Fabregas, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pedro and probably more I’ve forgotten. But they fell into the trap of thinking that was going to be the norm. No academy can do that. Much like our class of 92, it’s a one off and may never happen again. Ajax have done it a few times over the last 50 years, but again it’s not consistent.

They are where we were 2 years ago, except they’ve got the best player in the world bailing them out on a regular basis. No one can be expected to do that every time, especially against Europe’s best teams. Maradona had bad games believe it or not and actually had some pretty useful players around him in a functional tactical system.

There is a long term rebuild needed there like there was here. Messi doesn’t have time on his side to wait for that rebuild to be completed. I’m also not sure the Barcelona board have the patience to let a manager come in and do it. Whoever is in charge of their recruitment needs replacing as well if it’s not the managers buying the players.
 
Seems like he just doesnt care anymore. When he lost the ball for Coutino's goal, he just stood there, didnt even bother chasing back. Maybe he thinks that's beneath him, or he knew the game was over so didnt bother. I saw him at the Nou Camp last year and for most of the game, he was just walking around the pitch.
 
Daysleeper said:
Yes but his work rate doesn’t mean he should be sold.

Even Klopp wouldn’t ask Messi to track back because of how much else he does for the team:




Messi needs ten other players with a great work rate so he can focus on what he does best. Having no work rate Suarez up front only compounds the issue.
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying he should be sold but I agree with the poster saying that he is a disgrace when it comes to work rate.

It's games like these when you need to attack as a team and also defend as a team. Not walk or be a spectator, shaking your head at your team. He has the captain's armband ffs.

Just rewatch Bayern's 6th goal, Messi just standing away from his teammates who were trying to defend and were outnumbered by one.. not even offering himself as a passing option.

He was Barcelona's main threat. All bayern had to do was out-press him, one goal even resulted when he got dispossessed.
 
DRM said:
Seems like he just doesnt care anymore. When he lost the ball for Coutino's goal, he just stood there, didnt even bother chasing back. Maybe he thinks that's beneath him, or he knew the game was over so didnt bother. I saw him at the Nou Camp last year and for most of the game, he was just walking around the pitch.
Click to expand...
That’s the way he’s always played if you watch him over 90 minutes but when he does get the ball he’s insanely good with it, even yesterday it was his ball that started the goal for Suarez and he nearly scored past Neuer after a great run. The game was already gone before the Coutinho goal so don’t blame him for that.
 
Deery said:
That’s the way he’s always played if you watch him over 90 minutes but when he does get the ball he’s insanely good with it, even yesterday it was his ball that started the goal for Suarez and he nearly scored past Neuer after a great run. The game was already gone before the Coutinho goal so don’t blame him for that.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I only ever saw Messi during European football matches and the odd la liga game back when it was on Sky Sports, so when I saw him live for the 1st time it was genuinely a real shock for me to see him move so little around the pitch! I guess with that much quality you only need to do it when it matters.
 
Daysleeper said:
Sure, but losing to the 7th best team in the French league is nothing to hold your head up high about. Ronaldo never faced teams as good as Liverpool or Bayern this season or last because he was knocked out by inferior teams. We have been humiliated a lot in Europe lately but Messi isn’t the issue. He wasn’t even bad in the second leg vs Liverpool (creates all 8 chances we had) but Roma and today were not good. But he isn’t anything close to why we lost those matches. Our defense was woeful and got exposed time and time again. Even 2 goals would normally be enough for most teams to force ET at least. But conceding 8? That’s not on Messi
Click to expand...
Youre talking as if everything starts from yesterday. Its years and years of this now. Messi has been this lazy off the ball since well i to his prime.
Juve didnt go out because of Ronaldo, they were given a chance to beat Lyon because of him.
Ronaldo is a 5x winner of this competition, a freak of nature who does nothing but score goals in knockout games. Messi has guided his side to 1 CL win in 9 seasons. Even then Neymar was that seasons driving force.
Put Ronaldo in that Barca side for their chances in the opening 15 mins and theyre 2 goals up imo. Put him in that side and Bayern cant push up and crowd the midfield.
You say Ronaldo has gone out to worse opposition but he has slain 10x more elite sides than Messi has done over the last decade.
Replace Messi with Ronaldo last night and I dont think they lose 8-2, i really dont. I think Ronaldo punishes that high line and changes the dynamics of the game.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Nobody is saying he should be sold but I agree with the poster saying that he is a disgrace when it comes to work rate.

It's games like these when you need to attack as a team and also defend as a team. Not walk or be a spectator, shaking your head at your team. He has the captain's armband ffs.

Just rewatch Bayern's 6th goal, Messi just standing away from his teammates who were trying to defend and were outnumbered by one.. not even offering himself as a passing option.

He was Barcelona's main threat. All bayern had to do was out-press him, one goal even resulted when he got dispossessed.
Click to expand...

Does anyone have figures that show how far he ran?

I did see the Barcelona team ran 10k less than Munich as a whole.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Nobody is saying he should be sold but I agree with the poster saying that he is a disgrace when it comes to work rate.

It's games like these when you need to attack as a team and also defend as a team. Not walk or be a spectator, shaking your head at your team. He has the captain's armband ffs.

Just rewatch Bayern's 6th goal, Messi just standing away from his teammates who were trying to defend and were outnumbered by one.. not even offering himself as a passing option.

He was Barcelona's main threat. All bayern had to do was out-press him, one goal even resulted when he got dispossessed.
Click to expand...
There is a lot saying he should be sold.
 
his salary is trully bizarre argument, one of the worst I've seen in this thread and not because he's the only one who deserves it, but because Barca actually continued to bring expensive players regardless of it. I don't recall anyone questioning it during Valverde's debut or second season when they were still fairly functional side, or before Coutinho/Griez/Malcolm/Dembele transfers. the problem is, all of them ended up becoming flops. that's their biggest problem, the fact their oldest players and flops are being paid fortune while adding nothing to team. if only one of those transfers was success, if Dembele wasn't always injured and if Arthur was dedicated to football instead to partying, Barca would be in much better position and his wage wouldn't be an issue at all.

it would be completely different thing if Barca weren't able to afford those transfers but on paper, they already have/had very good central midfielder, very good attacking midfielder, very good winger and a very good forward in their squad. those needed reinforcements are in the club already, they just aren't reinforcements at all. that central midfielder losing his hunger for football at 24 already or that winger being unavailable for majority of season is completely unrelated to what Messi is earning.
 
Lazy sh!t, esp infuriating when your team is on the back foot.
 
He was an awful captain last night but can the anti-Messi folk stop blaming him for the scoreline? Another day, he’d have set up 3 goals in the first 10 minutes.

It’s hard to take some people seriously when their hate for him drowns our any attempt at a rationale point they are trying to make.
 
He's obviously the best player in the world but the way he gave up yesterday was a bit rank.
 
Daysleeper said:
Yes but his work rate doesn’t mean he should be sold.

Even Klopp wouldn’t ask Messi to track back because of how much else he does for the team:




Messi needs ten other players with a great work rate so he can focus on what he does best. Having no work rate Suarez up front only compounds the issue.
Click to expand...

Tracking back is different from Workrate and intensity. Nobody is asking Messi to track back. He's never done that. He has lost his intensity when his team doesn't have the ball and even when his team has the ball. Just look at the number of sprints per game. They have collapsed in the last few years. He doesn't make anymore runs unless the ball is at his feet.
However, my suggestion for him to be sold has more to do with his wage and his age. The same reason I am arguing Ronaldo was a poor signing for June in the other thread.
Messi is too much of a tactical headache at the moment and too old for Barcelona to be paying €1.3m a week when they need urgent rebuild.
He is still their best player but as a club, when you are looking long term, you have to make those kind of decisions
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Who is giving him credit? It's a collective collapse by Barcelona and not just one on the pitch.

He doesn't need to score a goal in torrential batterings to prove he's the "GOAT". Scoring or impacting two goals against France in that hapless Argentina display didn't make him the greatest. And not winning a WC final won't keep him from being that. He's clearly the best footballer I've ever seen. But yes, Barcelona have major issues , that much is clear. To pin point on the player whose carried them for years, is bizarre. And we know who the ones pushing that motion in this thread are and what their agenda is anyway.
Click to expand...

He's the captain and centre piece of the team he is supposed to be the heart beat. His head was completely gone at 3-1 down. How can you not see that as extremely poor mentality?
 
mancan92 said:
He's the captain and centre piece of the team he is supposed to be the heart beat. His head was completely gone at 3-1 down. How can you not see that as extremely poor mentality?
Click to expand...
How does serial winner Lionel Messi have a poor mentality? Heads dropping when your team is getting mauled is commonplace. 3-1 does a disservice to Bayern. They were carving Barcelona open for fun.
 
It’s crazy how many batterings Barcelona have taken in Europe in recent years. That 2013 0-4 to Bayern seemed like a crazy blip and 2 years later they won it again.

But 2017 4-0 by PSG, 3-0 by Juve, 2018 3-0 by Roma, 2019 4-0 by Liverpool and now 8-2 to Bayern.

There’s no doubt for me Messi is the greatest ever because you can’t change the ludicrously brilliant player he was 2007-2015 and of course he’s been ridiculously sensational now but there’s also no doubt he has had a poor mentality in big European games for a good few years now.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Yep.

Can he quit on Barca like he did Argentina or what happens now?

As good as he is he is just soft as hell. No fight, No work rate at all and just played with his head down.

They probably always would have lost but show some fight no?
Click to expand...
he is still better than Ronaldo. Drop it
 
'no gut no fury', 'leadership', 'showing character' etc etc. Are we in the 1950s? He contributes in the way only he can contribute; he created chances, he made space for teammates, he picked up the ball in the midfield when it was needed. No Barca fan, coach, or any Catalan for that matter expects or even asks Messi to defend. He can sit on his ass all game, as long as he makes the decisive pass/dribble or whatever.
 
Daysleeper said:
Not with this Barca squad. Maradonna would have zero support. Even in the 86 word cup he wasn’t the leading scorer for Argentina and their defense was solid. He still had other players step up. He would not have had a hatrick today despite what fantasy you may have, and certainly not at 33 years old when maradonna was finished while Messi was still breaking assist records.
Click to expand...

Yes he was. He scored 5 and assisted 5 of the 14 goals Argentina scored, and this Barcelona team is as good as anything he had for Argentina or Napoli. We make excuses for Messi in the Argentina squad, please let's not do the same for Barcelona. They have a billion dollar squad for christ's sake... is anything other than Xavi/Iniesta going to be spun as a bunch of pub players when discussing him in years to come?
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
He was an awful captain last night but can the anti-Messi folk stop blaming him for the scoreline? Another day, he’d have set up 3 goals in the first 10 minutes.

It’s hard to take some people seriously when their hate for him drowns our any attempt at a rationale point they are trying to make.
Click to expand...
Its not hate, its genuine criticism.
How many times does a Barca player break forward but has to pass back to Messi who is behind the play because he jogs everywhere?
Its a handicap at the highest level. Theyre constantly having to play backwards into the press.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
How does serial winner Lionel Messi have a poor mentality? Heads dropping when your team is getting mauled is commonplace. 3-1 does a disservice to Bayern. They were carving Barcelona open for fun.
Click to expand...

This is not the first time barca have been mauled and everytime Messi has been the captain and everytime he has dropped his head early on and not given his team any semblance of belief, drive ot determination. He has to take blame for that.
 
11101 said:
Yes he was. He scored 5 and assisted 5 of the 14 goals Argentina scored, and this Barcelona team is as good as anything he had for Argentina or Napoli. We make excuses for Messi in the Argentina squad, please let's not do the same for Barcelona. They have a billion dollar squad for christ's sake... is anything other than Xavi/Iniesta going to be spun as a bunch of pub players when discussing him in years to come?
Click to expand...

Its actually hilarious. Yes barca have squad issues but look at the quality they have on the pitch that's top 5 in Europe quality. The reason they lost 8-2 is nothing to do with quality it's mentality and I'm sure but Messi is the captain when your captain is strolling around not interested at all at 3-1 down how do you think the rest of the team is going to react?
 
Ronaldo v Messi, and obsession with the goat narrative is as tedious now as when they were in their prime. The US fixation on making every result, good or bad, about one individual has infested worldwide sport.

They have both benefited in playing for amazing teams for the majority of their career.
 
Bobski said:
Ronaldo v Messi, and obsession with the goat narrative is as tedious now as when they were in their prime. The US fixation on making every result, good or bad, about one individual has infested worldwide sport.

They have both benefited in playing for amazing teams for the majority of their career.
Click to expand...


When it comes to Messi and Ronaldo the whole understanding of the game as a team game goes out the window. When we were battered 1-6 by City I dont remember us blaming Rooney because he was a our best attacking player. Messi certainly has his responsibility but so does the rest of the team and the manager. Barcelona are in a awful place in terms of their ambitions as they have the highest wage bill in the world and all their mega transfers in the last 5 years have been flops.
 
Shamana said:
When it comes to Messi and Ronaldo the whole understanding of the game as a team game goes out the window. When we were battered 1-6 by City I dont remember us blaming Rooney because he was a our best attacking player. Messi certainly has his responsibility but so does the rest of the team and the manager. Barcelona are in a awful place in terms of their ambitions as they have the highest wage bill in the world and all their mega transfers in the last 5 years have been flops.
Click to expand...

What? Rooney was getting battered every game we lost. Genuinely some of you guys defending Messi are using every trick in the book even straight up lying. Rooney got a battering from us every game we didn't win.
 
It's days like yesterday when you thibk you understand the criticism of Ronaldo fans.but then you see a good game of him again a few weeks down the road and just think 'regardless of what happened, there's still no other player on this level'. You can drop him in every team and he improves it on the spot easily.

If you like the Roy Keanes and Stefan Effenbergs of this world, he's definitely not the player for you. Messi doesn't stand for winning through drive and determination but through superiority.

Then again, if people think the issue yesterday was determination and drive, I can't really help them. They lost because Bayern was the far superior collective. These are coaching and squad assembling issues.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.