Not in the CL, though.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter Scarecrow
- Start date
Nobody is going to buy Messi because absolutely nobody is going to pay his absurd 1.3 mil a week contract.
I'm saying overall but I bet now we have to compare him to Ronaldo again?
There is something to discuss. How many times was Ronaldo in losing positions compared to Messi? What was the result of those games? What was his performance relative to the rest of the team, did the team come back strong or did he drag them back kicking and screaming? Why are we only looking at the CL?
I don't ask all of that to throw shade on your original point. That is just an area where Ronaldo is stronger, but alone that stat is just a talking point you expect Stephen A Smith to belt out (he's our version of Craig Burley)
Sad to see him just walking around the pitch and not even trying.
just shows that when you’re demotivated no matter who you are, you’ll not put in 100%.
just shows that when you’re demotivated no matter who you are, you’ll not put in 100%.
Can he leave on a free this year or is it too late for him? (Considering his apparent contract and all)
A brave Barca director should have sold him and removed his ludicrous wages from them a few years ago...
A brave Barca director should have sold him and removed his ludicrous wages from them a few years ago...
Nothing that even the best version of Messi could have done tonight. There's just one thing we can blame him for (even if it wouldn't have changed the game tonight), he's no captain material and he shouldn't have been given this responsability. I remember having a discussion about that here and some fans said that he could lead a team, he just cannot. Not for Argentina, not for Barcelona.
I didn't watch every single Barcelona game under Pep, but this doesn't strike me as true for some reason. Every single person in that Barcelona side used to work hard on the defensive side of the game.
Was Messi running back 50 yards to put in a match saving tackle? No. But he was working hard on his end of the pitch, harrying the opposition and winning the ball back.
He's lazy now or maybe his body can't hack it but lets not act like he's been like this his entire career.
He had to let the club know by the end of May if he wanted to walk this summer.
Which makes sense considering the club would need to plan for the coming season.
Next summer his contract expires. Renewal negotiations were ongoing, but halted in the summer.
What percentage of the Caf do you think actually watches La Liga and Serie A? People used to only look at the World Cup because that was where they got to see the best players play.
Thats why I always say,
Messi may very well be the most talented player of all time but being the most talented and being the greatest are two VERY different thing.
The mentality part of it counts just as much and sometimes even more then the talent part of it and that's how you get that great mix.
I knew Messi did not have it once he quit on Argentina. It was the weakest thing I had ever seen from a supposed GOAT conversation player.
As Many have said it is NOT about tonight. If you think that you are missing the point. He has repetitively shown this and it is impossible to argue it.
Of course. They won a two horse race in La Liga and bottled the UCL.
..Still missing the point. I was talking about Messi and Cristiano as individuals and how they've set ridiculous standards and how weird it is to bash them in their mid 30s. I wasn't talking about their respective clubs.
But the point is, the domination you speak of doesn't really exist
But the point is, the domination you speak of doesn't really exist
You're just making up stats now
I like Ronaldo but the disinformation by his supporters gets to me.
Messi has 12 goals from losing positions over 12 games where Barca won 7 and lost 2.
Ronaldo scored 24 goals from losing positions over 20 games, still losing 10 games and only winning 6.
Doesn't look like Ronaldos 'clutch' moments made a difference.
Messi needs to leave Barcelona, the club is in ruins.
He certainly shouldnt be spending the final 3 years of his career in a team going through a rebuild job, he needs a ready built team.
He certainly shouldnt be spending the final 3 years of his career in a team going through a rebuild job, he needs a ready built team.
His workrate is a disgrace.
Interesting this.
Messi only scored in one of the 11 lost draws in Champions League.
Messi only scored in one of the 11 lost draws in Champions League.
Not surprising. You literally have to be blind to the fact that when the going gets tough Messi does not get going.
It’s not an accident that Ronaldo has double the goals of Messi in the creme de la creme aka the knockout rounds of the champions league.
There is zero pace up top with him.
Basically shows how incredibly reliant they are on him. If he doesn’t score/assist, Barca have no magic elsewhere.
Basically shows how incredibly reliant they are on him. If he doesn’t score/assist, Barca have no magic elsewhere.
Straight from Pep's mouth: https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...pep-guardiola-lionel-messi-doesn-t-run/238304
Exactly what happened in 2014 World Cup final
Messi had a very good start to the match. Then all of a sudden they were 4-1 down and the ball had barely come up his side of the pitch. Can’t really blame him for not killing himself to get back at that point, Barca were a shambles and the game was long gone. It would be different if they were only a goal down for a long period of the game.
Happens all top often. Theyll go a goal or two down and he literally starts strolling around the park.
Barca had many other problems today, as well as an aeging squad but Messi was putting up no fight. If anything Suarez was trying more.
This to me is something that will always be a factor in GOAT debates. My definition of a top footballer is not just how talented a footballer is but how they deliver in moments.
There have been better players than Zidane but his ability to deliver was special. Thats what makes him stand out.
Barca had many other problems today, as well as an aeging squad but Messi was putting up no fight. If anything Suarez was trying more.
This to me is something that will always be a factor in GOAT debates. My definition of a top footballer is not just how talented a footballer is but how they deliver in moments.
There have been better players than Zidane but his ability to deliver was special. Thats what makes him stand out.
He was walking around dejected.
Ronaldo has been knocked out in CL by far worse teams than Messi.
Messi isn’t why we conceded 8 goals
Mentality and what you do in Jose defining moments is what separates that fine line especially in close debated like the Ronaldo and Messi one.
Like I said you really can not defend quitting on your country. That told me all I needed to know.
As you said it happens all too often, It is not a coincidence.
I mean Zidane has a record of standing out in finals and the world cup, but that's not to say he wasn't missing for Real Madrid in large parts of his career.
I'm not Messis biggest fan but people bash him unfairly for not winning the world Cup in 2014, he was a big part of why they got there in the first place including some last minute goals. In the end sometimes you just lose to better teams.
Like Liverpool last year, Messi actually created some great chances in the return leg and had a really good game. Its not his fault his team mates couldn't finish. Tonight was a bit of a joke though, the whole Barcelona team including Messi were terrible, but the board have made some baffling transfers for Barca and that starting lineup today had no hope.
I get where the criticism of Messis mentality comes from given that he's lost a lot of big games over the last 6 years, but at the same time he has been a big part of their successes so that has to be remembered too.
This is the leader/Captain at halftime. When you should be rallying your team together.
messiterstegen.jpg
messiterstegen.jpg
No. But if he could contribute a few goals, maybe would make the scoreline look a little less humuliating though. Afterall he is getting paid 1.3m per week, which is more than half of Bayern team added together. While the whole Barca team is basically build around him, letting him just strolling around the pitch, he can't be always free from any blame.
Its always something though isn't it?
"Oh but his teammates missed"
"Oh but he did good before the 5 goals"
"Oh but the team"
"Oh its Higuain...Also its Suarez....Wait no its Aguero"
He’s not worth building around anymore.
The wage he’s on, and the kowtowing to his every demand is one of the reasons they are where they are at. They’ve wasted a lot of money, but I can’t help think they have been hindered by the massive outlay on his new contracts every other year.
The wage he’s on, and the kowtowing to his every demand is one of the reasons they are where they are at. They’ve wasted a lot of money, but I can’t help think they have been hindered by the massive outlay on his new contracts every other year.
This team isn't good enough for him. Hopelessly run football club.
Still undoubtedly the best footballer I've seen and easily regardless of Ronaldo fanboys whipping them up into a jizz storm in this thread.
Still undoubtedly the best footballer I've seen and easily regardless of Ronaldo fanboys whipping them up into a jizz storm in this thread.
A "few goals" don't tend to happen on their own. He didn't get any credit for the foe the goal and assist he got against France in the WC. It doesn't matter. It's a team sport. Putting a penalty away to make you lot happy is irrelevant.
It's hard to even come into these threads anymore, thanks to all the petty name calling and downplaying of each player. It's like people can't have a rational debate anymore
Anyway, back to the point, I feel Messi should revert back to his false 9 days, it's a burden on the right side when he doesn't track back. He should be the vocal point of attacks in the centre of the pitch without worrying about running back or leaving your FB's 2v1. But, seems it may be too late for that, unbalanced and ageing squad around him.
Anyway, back to the point, I feel Messi should revert back to his false 9 days, it's a burden on the right side when he doesn't track back. He should be the vocal point of attacks in the centre of the pitch without worrying about running back or leaving your FB's 2v1. But, seems it may be too late for that, unbalanced and ageing squad around him.
All he needs is Lingard to play alongside him, the link up plays between the two could win matches easily. It will also take some pressure from Messi.